[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[Buddhakingpen]

hmm... it seems kinda weird that he's a cc frame that'll have (I'm guessing) 150 base energy while having tank stats AND two forms of invincibility. I'm not complaining, but as far as balance is concerned, its just inconsistent. Vauban has 150 base energy, but no invincibility or tank stats, nyx has 150 energy and one form of invincibility but no tank stats, frost has tank stats but no invincibility and base 100 energy.

As a hydroid main, i'm happy. As a balance smut, this is awkward. 

[Pyus]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

HOT OFF THE PRESS (not literally we don't have a press):

Since the last Hotfix and now a lot of changes are being proposed and tested.

Things change quickly so this is just our goal - not confirmed for tomorrow yet - but it's where our heads are at and what we are trying to get in:
Visually we want to get PBR done on Hydroid.
We have increased his base energy pool.
We want Tempest Barrage to have better Audio feedback on its charging.
We want Undertow to have better possible damage scaling over time and as of a couple of minutes ago we are experimenting with squadmates being able to shoot into the puddle to damage submerged enemies. Since this is a recent experiment be prepared that it might not work out quickly or work out at all!

Stay tuned for the Update Notes!

Prolly going to go in the bin, but few suggestions. Temove charge cap from tempest barrage and tSwarm. Have it drain energy like thurbile and get a boost for energy drained. 

Also, tSwarm is bread and butter, make it a world on fire like toggle. 

[(XBOX)Clandaustino]

The most important thing to keep in mind is that his abilities are all currently a bit lackluster and offer nothing but trolley obstacles in a team setting. No range and high energy consumption make hem inefficient and ineffective in both team and solo play. Hard to call him cc, just a chaos machine. And puddle... I want to run around killing things not sit in one spot watching teammates get all the action.

[Melos-mevim]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

HOT OFF THE PRESS (not literally we don't have a press):

Since the last Hotfix and now a lot of changes are being proposed and tested.

Things change quickly so this is just our goal - not confirmed for tomorrow yet - but it's where our heads are at and what we are trying to get in:
Visually we want to get PBR done on Hydroid.
We have increased his base energy pool.
We want Tempest Barrage to have better Audio feedback on its charging.
We want Undertow to have better possible damage scaling over time and as of a couple of minutes ago we are experimenting with squadmates being able to shoot into the puddle to damage submerged enemies. Since this is a recent experiment be prepared that it might not work out quickly or work out at all!

Stay tuned for the Update Notes!

any news on giving tentacle swarm scaling damage?

[(XBOX)Clandaustino]

7 minutes ago, Pyus said:

tSwarm is bread and butter, make it a world on fire like toggle. 

This.

Edited August 15, 2017 by (XB1)Clandaustino

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

HOT OFF THE PRESS (not literally we don't have a press):

Since the last Hotfix and now a lot of changes are being proposed and tested.

Things change quickly so this is just our goal - not confirmed for tomorrow yet - but it's where our heads are at and what we are trying to get in:
Visually we want to get PBR done on Hydroid.
We have increased his base energy pool.
We want Tempest Barrage to have better Audio feedback on its charging.
We want Undertow to have better possible damage scaling over time and as of a couple of minutes ago we are experimenting with squadmates being able to shoot into the puddle to damage submerged enemies. Since this is a recent experiment be prepared that it might not work out quickly or work out at all!

Stay tuned for the Update Notes!

So nothing on the absolutely abysmal puddle range? Its pretty bad...

[KingOfNightmare]

Welps , these changes are pretty good on paper, but let's see online. Undertow isn't the only skill that needs some rework, tentacle swarm is good as CC but the fact that just throws enemies in all direction is frustrating for aiming with any  weapon(except AoE ones), instead of smashin enemies everywhere, tenteacles should crush enemies and keep them standing still (like harrow 1st skill)  an maybe (if you want to add some interesting new mechanic) become some sort of decoy where other enemies try to free their ally, but instead they just enrage the kraken and THEN a big smash to knock away enemies

[TechxiiiTV]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

HOT OFF THE PRESS (not literally we don't have a press):

Since the last Hotfix and now a lot of changes are being proposed and tested.

Things change quickly so this is just our goal - not confirmed for tomorrow yet - but it's where our heads are at and what we are trying to get in:
Visually we want to get PBR done on Hydroid.
We have increased his base energy pool.
We want Tempest Barrage to have better Audio feedback on its charging.
We want Undertow to have better possible damage scaling over time and as of a couple of minutes ago we are experimenting with squadmates being able to shoot into the puddle to damage submerged enemies. Since this is a recent experiment be prepared that it might not work out quickly or work out at all!

Stay tuned for the Update Notes!

I like it that you guys are taking initiative to change certain things.

I myself don't main as Hydroid but always held off because of his abilities, still do even despite this revisit. I do understand that it may be difficult to conclude certain changes to a warframe.

I myself would love to see a change:

Tempest Barrage : instead of actually holding the ability to gain more power and  duration, why can't we just have that without holding it at all and make it scale to late game as you did with Oberon's or Octavia's first.

Tidal Surge : instead of Hydroid launching himself into a wave and picking up enemies in its way why don't you make it that he spawns a few waves to CC the enemies from him.

Undertow : should be removed, if not make it that he spawns puddles within the game that holds enemies inside of them doing constant damage to scale something like Limbo's rift but with damage yet it drains energy for the amount of enemies in the puddles.

Tentacle Swarm : another ability seems lackluster for a Water Pirate frame. I did like that now you can see a Kraken but the ability is still unreliable and CC's the enemies to a point in which you can't hit them yet the ability doesn't do damage necessary to even cast it. How about replace the ability with a Acid Rain in which removes status to allies within the ability and starts to remove enemies armor while inflicted in this "Acid Rain".

This is just a few suggestions out of the all the ones the community has suggested. I hope Hydroid finally gets to get something that will make him usable and not a waste hence his Prime is arriving soon.

 

[Ascythian]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Since this is a recent experiment be prepared that it might not work out quickly or work out at all!

Time limit doesn't really factor into the equation because unless you get him right, it doesn't matter how quickly you get his changes done.

Regarding Tentacle Swarm, I don't mind the tentacles flailing around, that's part of their charm but they should do more damage/affect a greater number of enemies/ be more reliable, so for example pick up an enemy, crush him a little and then throw him and then pick up another enemy ad infinitum as an example for a change to that ability.

You should be able to pick-up items whilst a puddle.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Ascythian

[(PSN)Solomon_Kaine]

I'll admit, I am no hydroid main.  Not even close, nor am I a game developer, but in my honest opinion, this rework could have gone so much better.  Not trying to throw shade, not trying to piss off the devs or the players, but I firmly believe this rework could have gone better.  Based off all of the responses I consistsntly hear, Hydroid was, before this rework, probably the worst in the game as he stood.  This rework hasn't changed that, as much as I wish it had.  Any "buff" that he got to one of his abilities, had a corresponding nerf to counteract it.  I know I'm not the only one who wanted something more out of hydroid, something that would put him up there with other great warframes.  I also know alot of people were hoping to get his 3rd ability replaced entirely with something that was far more enjoyable, fast-paced, and team based.  I truly, TRULY, hope DE goes back and retweaks him, even if only slightly.  He doesn't look nor feel like he is where he should be.

[WaterWarrior]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

HOT OFF THE PRESS (not literally we don't have a press):

Since the last Hotfix and now a lot of changes are being proposed and tested.

Things change quickly so this is just our goal - not confirmed for tomorrow yet - but it's where our heads are at and what we are trying to get in:
Visually we want to get PBR done on Hydroid.
We have increased his base energy pool.
We want Tempest Barrage to have better Audio feedback on its charging.
We want Undertow to have better possible damage scaling over time and as of a couple of minutes ago we are experimenting with squadmates being able to shoot into the puddle to damage submerged enemies. Since this is a recent experiment be prepared that it might not work out quickly or work out at all!

Stay tuned for the Update Notes!

Hi I love the game.I hope some of you may check my post "Idea 4 Hydroid" in the Warframe & Abilities/feedback category.

[(XBOX)Vile Slanders]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

HOT OFF THE PRESS (not literally we don't have a press):

Since the last Hotfix and now a lot of changes are being proposed and tested.

Things change quickly so this is just our goal - not confirmed for tomorrow yet - but it's where our heads are at and what we are trying to get in:
Visually we want to get PBR done on Hydroid.
We have increased his base energy pool.
We want Tempest Barrage to have better Audio feedback on its charging.
We want Undertow to have better possible damage scaling over time and as of a couple of minutes ago we are experimenting with squadmates being able to shoot into the puddle to damage submerged enemies. Since this is a recent experiment be prepared that it might not work out quickly or work out at all!

Stay tuned for the Update Notes!

Blessed Bovines, Batman!

 

My team synergy Undertow suggestion is actually being considered!? I would feel special, if the the probability of a dozen other Tenno making the same suggestion before I did wasn't so likely...

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

3 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

groovy. enjoy your shopping!

Well, that was a doozy of a trip XD

Okay, first thing's first. Hydroid's deal is that he is a Defensive Support frame with Offensive tactics. What I mean by that it that, while his abilities are offensive in nature, they, for the most part, are supportive CC. Now, he may not do a whole lot of damage currently (DE just stated they have more buffs on the way) he can control a very large area, and keep it held well.

Now, his first ability is great for Chokepoints, as are many of his abilities. What makes it nice other than the constant knockdowns, is that it allows any enemies affected to be hit with a finisher, so long as you get them in time. It's nice for armor stripping en masse with the Augment, but unless you're up against Grineer or Corrupted, I recommend not using Augment. Overall, it does a good amount of damage, in a very nice range, and can keep enemies down if repeatedly cast. It's also nice if you cast this, then cast Tentacle Swarm, as the enemies won't be able to get out of the way since they were just knocked down.

His second ability is an oddball, it's move of a movement system to me, but it's useful for either setting enemies up for finishers since it knocks them down, or dragging them into an Undertow since it can be cast and cancel the wave. When using Undertow, it's nice since you can use his 2nd to speed along in a direction you choose quicker and for a lot less energy than it would take if you tried moving it naturally in Undertow. What I meant by movement system is, for example, using the wave during the decryption portion of Jordas Verdict will allow you to move to each point, especially during purges, and take little to nothing off your armor gauge. Not really special, but nice to note. It's augment is nice, curing procs and whatnot, but it's not super amazing. 

Now Undertow, his 3rd, is a central part of his kit now. You can cast all his other abilities while inside it, and even grab enemies outside it's range and pull them into Undertow. It's damage now scales the longer the enemies are inside it, and will die relatively quick. About 10 seconds with a decent build kills a Level 120 Corpus Tech. It's nothing much more than a safe place for Hydroid as he's invulnerable while inside it, and can safely move around and cast his abilities. Again, as I said, you can use his 2nd to move around faster. Undertow, like all his abilities, is best used in a choke point for maximum efficiency. The augment can help heal your team a little, but is little help aside from that.

Finally, Tentacle Swarm. This one's been upgraded so now the tentacles will actually attempt to find enemies, rather than flail about. Their damage is negligable, but they will keep enemies busy, as once they've been grabbed, they won't be let go until they die or the ability ends. Also it temporarily spawns in a little Kraken friend to say hi. It's a pretty straight forward ability in terms of use. It's augment just turns him into a discount Nekros. Good for farming, but should be paired with the real deal for maximum efficiency.

He's better in a group to support him.

I'd go into more detail, but time constraints, you understand.

That's how I see Hydroid. Good a choke points, good CC, fun frame.

Edited August 16, 2017 by (XB1)ALG Minuscule36

[(PSN)Kiteshade]

All these proposed changes, the vast majority brimming with potential, and DE still is gonna do what DE feels is best for us. If the community was more willing to sit down at come to a common consensus instead of forming cliques and groups to speak for everyone, all the while using survey samples that don't represent the various play-styles of at least hydroid mains, maybe we'd get what would actually be beneficial to everyone. Still, maybe Hydie will get the love he deserves. Cautiously optimistic nonetheless I suppose. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by (PS4)Kitetsu18

[Mudfam]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Demon Intellect said:

Just sounds like you are an impatient child to me. It's obvious you only play low level content because a level 135 corpus tech can kill you in literally 4 shots which is a lot faster than you can shoot the dread once. 

No idea what your point there is, but I never play low level content. I only do sorties, kuva floods and raids, that's it. Sortie 1 and 2 are the lowest level content I do. I've also done endurance runs of up to 8 hours with enemy levels in the thousands. The higher level the content, the more damage you need to do. Indeed, like you say, for most of the content I do I need to kill things instantly, before they kill me, and most missions require killing stuff as fast as possible anyway, if at all.

As for undertow... It has nothing to do with patience, it's about actually playing the game instead of sitting there as a puddle. What exactly offends you about me saying I don't want to be a puddle waiting for enemies to die, but actually play? Warframe's fast paced, high mobility gameplay is its best and most unique feature, I think most would agree.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

12 hours ago, Mudfam said:

No idea what your point there is, but I never play low level content. I only do sorties, kuva floods and raids, that's it. Sortie 1 and 2 are the lowest level content I do. I've also done endurance runs of up to 8 hours with enemy levels in the thousands. The higher level the content, the more damage you need to do. Indeed, like you say, for most of the content I do I need to kill things instantly, before they kill me, and most missions require killing stuff as fast as possible anyway, if at all.

As for undertow... It has nothing to do with patience, it's about actually playing the game instead of sitting there as a puddle. What exactly offends you about me saying I don't want to be a puddle waiting for enemies to die, but actually play? Warframe's fast paced, high mobility gameplay is its best and most unique feature, I think most would agree.

So you don't play the game then? If all you do is sorties raids and kuva floods then you must not play very often. 

[Mudfam]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)ALG Minuscule36 said:

I'll just address these by paragraph.

1) Confused as to why if it doesn't kill any enemy under 1 second, then you're not interested. Cancels out a LOT of frames if that's what you want.

2) It's range is smaller, but with ramping damage they die a lot quicker than before. Also, you can grab them from a fairly decent range now that, if you had a lot of range, could rival the old Undertow's range. That grab option is there for that exact reason, to grab what's no longer in range and bring it to you.

3)You have to aim it before you cast for maximum use, and can even cancel it if you're going the wrong way or picked up a bunch of enemies to bring them directly into Undertow.

Sounds more like Valkyr is your style. The Berserker Offensive frame. Not the CC Defense Frame. (Remember, CC just means you're dealing with a crowd, nobody said it had to do a lot of damage. Otherwise people would complain about abilities such as Bastille.)

However, Ivara and Hydroid serve two very different purposes. It's a little hard to compare the two due to that.

I really wanna know how long you've played Hydroid for, if you don't mind?

With a few notable exceptions, I don't even consider frames in terms dealing damage, that's what weapons are for. Frames are for carrying weapons, or amplifying the damage of weapons. I mostly play nova and volt, because portals and speed. They are frames that can't survive more than a couple of hits in the level 100 range, which I enjoy. I barely touch Molecular Prime or other mass CC because it feels like cheating. I like Antimatter drop and to some extent Volt's shield. In short, I play warframe as a fast paced shooter with some melee thrown in.

I haven't played Hydroid much, I've played all frames and the game a whole lot, I understand what I like and don't like. If Hydroid offered something to support the high mobility gameplay that I enjoy then I'd be interested in playing him, but nothing in his kit does. Hence my OP.

[Alpha1641]

Warframe has been becoming more beautiful as of late, and though the water textures have improved significantly, there is no sense of "depth" in the water, which has come to be known as "the puddle."

If you've played Portal you will know this effect I have demonstrated in the image above, translate the camera's position relative to a new area (a large box containing the Kraken's domain), rendering the scene into a texture, then using that resulting texture to render onto the water's surface in the real coordinates.

Not only would this give the illusion of a dark, ominous depth containing a MUCH LARGER Kraken than the small "slug" model that appears currently, it also provides a method for players to fire weapons and use abilities through the puddle (imagine throwing the companion cube through the portal, it appears in the new position). Translate all bullets and powers as if they were relative to the Kraken's box. Using this method, allies could shoot enemies as they are submerged.

[Mudfam]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Demon Intellect said:

So you don't play the game then? If all you do is sorties raids and kuva floods then you must not play very often. Keep thinking you're billy badass though kid.

..?

First off, that's at least 2 hours a day. And no, I'm not a "kid", so I don't usually have much time to play more than that. Why are you trying to be offensive anyway? What exactly does your random attempt at demeaning me have to do with the topic at hand?

The reason those are the only things I do is because I've done absolutely everything else there is to do in this game. All that's left for me to do is collect is more rivens and arcanes.

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

36 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

With a few notable exceptions, I don't even consider frames in terms dealing damage, that's what weapons are for. Frames are for carrying weapons, or amplifying the damage of weapons. I mostly play nova and volt, because portals and speed. They are frames that can't survive more than a couple of hits in the level 100 range, which I enjoy. I barely touch Molecular Prime or other mass CC because it feels like cheating. I like Antimatter drop and to some extent Volt's shield. In short, I play warframe as a fast paced shooter with some melee thrown in.

I haven't played Hydroid much, I've played all frames and the game a whole lot, I understand what I like and don't like. If Hydroid offered something to support the high mobility gameplay that I enjoy then I'd be interested in playing him, but nothing in his kit does. Hence my OP.

Mm. But you must understand that just because he doesn't fit your preference, you can just use somebody else? Many people, such as myself like Hydroid as is. We don't want him to play differently because then he wouldn't be Hydroid.

Though may I suggest Nezha to you? He can teleport with his Chakram.

[zork9900]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

HOT OFF THE PRESS (not literally we don't have a press):

Since the last Hotfix and now a lot of changes are being proposed and tested.

Things change quickly so this is just our goal - not confirmed for tomorrow yet - but it's where our heads are at and what we are trying to get in:
Visually we want to get PBR done on Hydroid.
We have increased his base energy pool.
We want Tempest Barrage to have better Audio feedback on its charging.
We want Undertow to have better possible damage scaling over time and as of a couple of minutes ago we are experimenting with squadmates being able to shoot into the puddle to damage submerged enemies. Since this is a recent experiment be prepared that it might not work out quickly or work out at all!

Stay tuned for the Update Notes!

Why are you guys trying to change undertow instead of removing it from he game and replacing it with something else? Hydroid needs a rework closer to what Limbo or Excalibur got, where he got new abilities, he's pretty much at the same level as old Limbo was, but instead of giving him new abilities like Limbo, he got changes closer to what Oberon got, except Oberon didn't need new abilities, Hydroid does. In Limbo's rework he got some really great changes and new abilities, but then when Hydoid's "rework" came out he didn't get anything new, and his abilities barely changed. To me it seems like DE is obsessed with undertow. Also Tentacle Swarm still flails enemies around, making them HARDER to hit, and that ability needs some changes, and Tempest Barrage is a little bit random and could be changed a bit, but Tidal Surge is good right now. Maybe DE is too busy working on plains of eidolon, and should give Hydroid a better rework after that gets released. Anyway maybe I'm just disappointed because i was really excited to see new abilities on Hydroid.   

Edited August 16, 2017 by zork9900
misspelling

[PsiWarp]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

HOT OFF THE PRESS (not literally we don't have a press):

Since the last Hotfix and now a lot of changes are being proposed and tested.

Things change quickly so this is just our goal - not confirmed for tomorrow yet - but it's where our heads are at and what we are trying to get in:
Visually we want to get PBR done on Hydroid.
We have increased his base energy pool.
We want Tempest Barrage to have better Audio feedback on its charging.
We want Undertow to have better possible damage scaling over time and as of a couple of minutes ago we are experimenting with squadmates being able to shoot into the puddle to damage submerged enemies. Since this is a recent experiment be prepared that it might not work out quickly or work out at all!

Stay tuned for the Update Notes!

Appreciate the news!

1. More energy in storage is always good.
2. Aside from audio, will Tempest Barrage cause Hydroid's model to animate as well? Tentacle Swarm does a good job showing us that Hydroid is charging it up, alongside the size increase of the spawn area indicator.
3. Possible double dip in scaling ability/player damage sounds good. As long as allies can contribute and feel like they aren't being kept away from killing submerged enemies.

Hopefully the rest of the upcoming changes address Hydroid's problems. Plus making use of the awesome Kraken model.

[(XBOX)Vile Slanders]

Just now, zork9900 said:

Why are you guys trying to change undertow instead of removing it from he game and replacing it with something else? Hydroid needs a rework closer to what Limbo or Excaliber got, where he got new abilities, he's pretty much at the same level as old Limbo was, but instead of giving him new abilities like Limbo, he got changes closer to what Oberon got, except Oberon didn't need new abilities, Hydroid does. In Limbo's rework he got some really great changes and new abilities, but then when Hydoid's "rework" came out he didn't get anything new, and his abilities barely changed. To me it seems like DE is obsessed with undertow. Also Tentacle Swarm still flails enemies around, making them HARDER to hit, and that ability needs some changes, and Tempest Barrage is a little bit random and could be changed a bit, but Tidal Surge is good right now. Maybe DE is too busy working on plains of eidolon, and should give Hydroid a better rework after that gets released. Anyway maybe I'm just disappointed because i was really excited to see new abilities on Hydroid.   

DE is trying to make his kit work; chiefly because it's more cost and time effective. Frankly, I disagree with scrapping Undertow. I think it could be brilliant with the proper mechanics behind it, but a huge chunk of the WF community has it in their heads that "rework" means "gets an exalted weapon."

 

To date, the only instance of that happening was excalibur's rework. So don't get your hopes up.

 

Allowing teamates to damage enemies in undertow would effectivelly be like Hydroid gaining a variant of Nyx's absorb. He's nearly immobile, invincible, and he can't attack with weapons. But he can incapacitate mobs, do damage over time, AND open enemy units up to team fire courtesy of the new mechanic.

 

This would make Undertow an incredibly useful ability, as it shuts down enemy mobs, and allows teammates to safely engage them; while also making Hydroid invincible. To top it off, the Aug could add a healing effect to Undertow, massively boosting its team utility. A safe place to hide and recover, while Hydroid sucks up the big threats? Tell me there isn't any viable strategy to be had in a dedicated Puddle-Hydroid build.

It's practically a mix of Banish, Vortex, and Antimatter Drop! How could Undertow be anything BUT amazing with the adoption of the proposed mechanic?

[Lydethlas]

He needs more energy! One off the list excellent!

Next: Other abilities feel underwhelming (2&3) or hinder the team (3&4) therefore....

I suggest combining his 2&3 using the short/long press we've already seen used in other frames like vauban and Ivara.

Short press - Quick dash, Long press puddle.

I'd also revise his augments for both 2&3, both of them give minimal survivability and could be made part of the kit in other ways. Curative undertow should be made part of his passive - touching allies while in 2 or 3 gives them fire/burning immunity for 2s and heals them for 20hp/s for 2s. There's Water, a good passive, and 2 more slots for later augments (hype that new Prime with a new augment?).

His 4 as many said needs to stop flailing the enemies at supersonic speeds - hitting them is impossible - try it it's really really annoying.

1 seems solid now, could use some QOL cast speed/accuracy changes but overall it's a good 1 compared to other 1s.

As for a new ability if you were to combine 2&3 into one, consider either a teambuff along the line of "raise moral" or a Pirate-style buff for himself like faster weapon swap speed, parkour and corrosive/viral bonus on his melee for a duration.

[Rekkou]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

HOT OFF THE PRESS (not literally we don't have a press):

Since the last Hotfix and now a lot of changes are being proposed and tested.

Things change quickly so this is just our goal - not confirmed for tomorrow yet - but it's where our heads are at and what we are trying to get in:
Visually we want to get PBR done on Hydroid.
We have increased his base energy pool.
We want Tempest Barrage to have better Audio feedback on its charging.
We want Undertow to have better possible damage scaling over time and as of a couple of minutes ago we are experimenting with squadmates being able to shoot into the puddle to damage submerged enemies. Since this is a recent experiment be prepared that it might not work out quickly or work out at all!

Stay tuned for the Update Notes!

 

No change planned for Tentacle Swarm? And please mind that some people prefer playing solo, sitting in a puddle while other players are doing the rest shouldn't be the best way to play Hydroid