[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[Xephier223]

So I took him into the simulacrum to try out his stuff to see how it works and see how it feels. Going from his 1 ability to his 4 ability to see and give feedback. I tested all of his abilities without any mods, as well as with the following build in the spoiler.

Spoiler

Tempest Barrage: Honestly the RNG of the 1st ability isn't' too big of a bother, since the range only increases explosion size at base it makes it so most every bolt hits, even with the new charge up to bigger size. However, the charge up I do not care for, since it doesn't feel like the additional damage and duration is honestly worth it, at least at the cost of 50 energy at max charge (12 with 175% efficiency). I honestly think i would like this charge up more if it started below 25 and went up to 25 for the max, kinda like the 4 ability that starts at 50 and goes up to 100. That all aside, the ability still serves as a fairly good CC, the bolts able to hit a fairly large area with only 160% range.

Tidal Surge: Honestly I kinda feel like this ability should be his new passive, change his roll function, similar to limbo, to this for maybe 25 energy per use (just a normal roll without energy). I do like how it can interact with his 3 ability, but on its own the drag effect on enemies is only good when accompanied by his 3 ability and on its own the cc removal is a nice thing. But just in total this ability just doesn't feel very potent. 

Undertow: Love everything that happened to this ability save for 1 part. I do love that the other abilities can now be used from his puddle form! This adds a nice mix of defense and offense to him, giving a fairly unique play style that fits him I feel. I do like feel of using tidal surge and then puddling into this, or using it while already puddled. However this does bring me to my first problem with the 3rd ability rework, the drain for moving is far too high for how little you move. It feels like it'd be far more efficent to overshoot my target and use my 2 ability rather than even try to move an inch, simply put the drain that you receive for attempting to move, and I say attempting because you barely move at all, is far too high even with 175% efficiency.

Tentacle Swarm: I've been seeing a TON of flack for this ability already, but surprisingly when I tested it out I was fairly pleased with it. The large scale of the charge up doesn't bother me because the tentacles will purposely spawn beneath enemies within the charge up area rather than just spawn randomly, this already solves quite a bit of the spacing issue brought on by the larger area. I do enjoy that the tendrils will try to aim their smacks for anyone within the radius before smacking randomly. Only real negatives to this one for me is the spacing of the spawn points and the amount you get for the charge up. While I do love that it spawns beneath the enemies, when there are a bunch clustered in 1 spot it feels like a waste to have several tentacles all spawn right next to one another so each one hits an enemy, rather than just having 1 there because it can capture all of them. My second problem is for the charge up doubles the cost yet there are only 5 additional tentacles, I understand it increases the damage but it doesn't feel like the small damage bonus is enough to compensate for the charge up, i would much rather there be double the tentacles.

 

Edit: One small thing to add. I LOVE the new workings between his Undertow and Tentacle Swarm! It gives a very satisfying area that the tentacles spawn in, even after leaving undertow, and personally does solve much of the problem of it spawning in too large an area if no enemies are present! (Seriously give this a try, its awesome!)

Edited August 10, 2017 by Xephier223
Forgot a detail.

[Lord_Datastorm]

They snuck in a lot of nerfs and all my builds have to change. I have been using hydroid since he came out in April of 2014. Tentacles are now LoS, undertow uses more energy then before. puddle size is smaller, tentacle range is smaller.

[BrazilianJoe]

I really wanted to have my "Exalted Hydroid" rework, but one can't get everything...

As for the current rework: 

Tempest Barrage - Keep the "click to shower an area", but add a channeled mode, where it shoots continuously at the reticule target (enemy or ground) at the cost of X energy per second. 

Tidal Surge - Give it a "chanelled mode" too. Click goes forward a defined distance just as currently. Holding lets it go on indefinitely, with continuous energy drain after the default distance is traveled. Undertow limitations apply the same way, but tidal surge can still be used continuously. Let it be steered left and right using directionals. 

Undertow - aiming at a tentacle from tentacle swarm and holding undertow can make Hydroid melt from his position and make the undertow puddle to reappear under that tentacle. This is a teleport-like skill for added mobility, when there are tentacles lying around the landscape. 

Tentacle Swarm - Should be possible to spawn the tentacles in pairs, with cheaper casting cost and time, by clicking. Holding the button for a little bit would cause a swarm of 8 tentacles to swarm up at the vicinity of the reticule target, but 4 of them would subsume, leaving 4 behind. Up to 4/8/12/16 tentacles existing at a time on the map.

[Kaokasalis]

I tested the new Hydroid rework with a fairly general build against level 80 enemies.

Power Duration 130%

Power Effenciency 130%

Power Range 145%

Power Strength 180%

Tempest Barrage:

Still barely able to kill cannon fodder like elite crewmen with regular casts. Needs 2 to 3 regular casts to kill. Entirely useless against Grineer without augment. Charge function is an improvement to the damage but its still lackluster. Fully charged casts can kill a elite crewman in 1 to 2 casts depending on how volley hits.

Useless as a power used for killing but decent CC. Could be improved by having the ability inherent elemental damage mods from the currently equiped weapon or by having enemies affected by undertow take increased damage from the ability.

Tidal Surge:

Still got lackluster damage but is decent for gathering enemies. Should throw enemies forward at the end of the wave and do damage to them based on the impact like snowglobe can do. The cancellation via undertow is dumb. It should just require activaing Tidal Surge again to stop mid-wave. The inability to steer the wave is also another disappointment that could improve its usability by a huge amout rather than just being a forced straight line. Would also be pretty cool if moving at high speeds before activating Ttidal Surge gave bonus damage to it.

Using Tidal Surge to move around in Undertow should also have reduced energy cost. Right now it costs to much energy just to cross a gap to some enemies.

Tidal Surge would also benefit greatly if the augment for it were made a basic part of the ability or if it at least just allow Hydroid to cleanse himself of status effects.

Undertow:

A good improvement compared to what we had before, the new aiming function is great. Took me 15,42 seconds to kill a elite crewman and 18,47 seconds to kill a elite lancer which is still pretty slow in my opinion. On the bright side though, it seems to ignore armor which is good. The growing damage rate speed should be made twice as fast as it currently is. It just needs to be quicker and then its good.

The Undertow movespeed should also be as fast as a regular running Hydroid. As i said earlier, to much energy is spent crossing tiny gaps. Being in Undertow should reduce the cost of Hydroids abilities to compensate. Enemies should also take more damage from Tempest Barage.

Can still be used as a trolling ability on higher levels where enemies take longer to drown. A level 100 elite crewman took 20,92 seconds to kill. If allies were able to shoot into the pool to spread the damage done to all enemies in there it would both be possible to prevent trolling as well as give the Hydroid a reason to gather enemies in the pool.

Enemies with aura effects should also be disabled if dragged down by Undertow. You try killing a lvl 80 ancient healer with a 90% damage reduction.

Tentacle Swarm:

The new Tentacle Swarm looks Great. Although they deal finisher damage, the damage they do still feels pretty low. If the tentacles were able to inherent elemental damage from the mods equiped on the melee weapon as well with a decent change to proc the status of that element then this power would be great. It would help greatly when dealing wih different facions.

Pretty good CC and far more reliable than the old version. I saw far less Tentacles spawning somewhere random.

Also I feel like if Hydroid is in Undertow that tentacles should emerge at both the location his aiming at as well where his currently in undertow. Theres little reason to use Tentacle Swarm while in Undertow other than to focus them in the zone.

 

Still alot of room for improvement but its a step in the right direction so far.

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Hieracon

[BansheePrime]

1 minute ago, Lord_Datastorm said:

They snuck in a lot of nerfs and all my builds have to change. I have been using hydroid since he came out in April of 2014. Tentacles are now LoS, undertow uses more energy then before. puddle size is smaller, tentacle range is smaller.

Did you read about how charging increases range and damage?

Edited August 10, 2017 by maj.death

[pavlo555]

Tentacles and undertow are now just water and don't eat energy color. RIP best boifrendo hydroid.

Pls, give it a texture and energy color back. They need to be slimy for maximum pleasure fashionframe

[RunicZeus]

Correct me if I'm wrong but tentacle swarm can spawn a fish but it does not do anything.

What.

You can move faster with Ivara's prowl and Wukongs Cloud Walker but you are sluggish with Hydroid's puddle.

and (tested) barrage takes too long to charge and his damage is mediocre even for level 50s

His Tidal surge transformed from Excals dash to Rhino's charge with its ragdoll. This should be removed completely as its usefulness is bad as you can already cc with your 1 and just bullet jump and roll to reach the distance.

I was expecting a total overhaul for his abilities. He is a pirate frame but has nothing to make him a pirate. You can literally make a mermaid/fish or water based frame with the same abilities and there would be no difference. Why can't you spawn an entire octopus thing?

Give us something pirate themed, please

Thanks

RunicZeus

[Scrimshack]

TL;DR: Hydroid is definitely better now, but still not necessarily good. "Charging" his abilities takes too long and the payoff is not worth it, while "Tap-and-Hold" style mechanics would be quicker and more rewarding. 

This wasn't so much of a rework as a revisit, but there are definitely some welcome changes, as well as some lingering problems.

Tempest Barrage is still a clunky 1 ability because it isn't consistent; you can't reliably crowd-control groups of enemies with an ability that hits random targets in its area of effect. Being able to have multiple casts of Tempest Barrage active at once is a welcome change, but it is not as useful as it could be because of the new "charge" mechanic his 1 and 4 have. I think that a Tap-and-Hold mechanic would benefit Tempest Barrage a lot more. For example, tapping 1 would cast the ability normally, while holding 1 would release a single wave, all of the explosions hitting at once. This would allow for different play styles, whether you prefer to have a constant barrage of crowd-control going at all points on the map, or having a guaranteed wave knock down one pesky group in particular. 

Tidal Surge remains Hydroid's best option for mobility, as well as another great option for crowd-control. However, at 50 energy per cast, it costs a little too much for what the ability offers. To give the ability some more spice, it would be great if Hydroid could turn while casting Tidal Surge, allowing him to position himself better in the chaos of battle. This would allow for better control of an ability that can be pretty insane if you mod for Duration. 

Undertow is a very unique ability that gives Hydroid a bit of a safety net in case things get hectic. The increased damage potential of the ability is welcome, but it takes too long to build up. Being able to use Hydroid's other abilities while in Undertow is a huge boost, although mobility is still an issue. Because of Hydroid's low energy, moving around in Undertow is too costly, so a potential change would be to lower the energy drain of movement during Undertow, as well as removing the limit on using Tidal Surge while Undertow is active. 

Tentacle Swarm is a very flashy 4th ability, but much like Tempest Barrage, it lacks consistency for a crowd-controlling ability. Enemies grabbed by Tentacles are too hard to hit while they are flailing around, and when the ability ends, enemies will fall in different places. One possible fix for this would be that all enemies under the effects of Tentacle Swarm are tossed into the center of the ability when the duration ends. Additionally, "charging" Tentacle Swarm takes too long in most cases, which can be too costly in terms of energy. Yet again, I would suggest a Tap-and-Hold mechanic. For example, tapping 4 would cast the ability normally, while holding 4 would center the Tentacle Swarm around Hydroid himself. This would allow for Hydroid to choose between controlling one area of the map or controlling a horde of enemies around him. 

Finally, Hydroid's Passive is enjoyable, but inconsistent. Tentacles fit Hydroid's theme, but trying to get more by using a Melee slam attack breaks up the flow of gameplay too much. Instead of having to use a Melee slam attack, Hydroid could have a lower chance (around 5-10%) to spawn a Tentacle from the body of an enemy he kills, with a maximum capacity of course. This way, Tentacles will spawn in locations closer to other enemies, giving them a chance to deal some damage and crowd-control a small area.

I'm happy with some of the changes made in this update, but it would be really upsetting if the rework stopped here. Hydroid still needs work to be a good Warframe, and I hope he gets this love within the next few weeks. 

[Lord_Datastorm]

You can cast all of his powers from undertow but they also made the tentacles LoS.

 

[Lorienzo]

The idea is obviously all centred on Undertow (3) be like water, my friend, and the fact that his Tentacle Swarm needs energy drain on top of that charging animation (thus the idea is charging during invulnerability of Undertow, I get it), PLUS his Undertow energy tick + other abilities you will use during Undertow + pulling during Undertow consumes energy, PLUS moving at all in Undertow which is non-existent, I find this...disconcerting.

1. What I would suggest is allowing loot pickup during Undertow. This fits with the idea of bodies of water swallowing all. Or remove the energy drain during the duration of Tentacle Swarm. Or just in general improve energy consumption issues.

2. Please consider making the tentacle's water effects look up to par with the wonderful water effects we now have on our other abilities. I know you think we would not see them with updated water effects but hell, give it to us. Those who can't handle the load can just switch to medium graphics or have some kind of toggle in the appearance menu to make them old/visible again.

3.. Oh, and the Kraken dude does nothing. That I am very disappointed by. I would imagine if I summon another Swarm or something or any other ability the Kraken would FOLLOW me/ability and twirl around in that vicinity, dealing damage there lasting till the duration of the followed ability is gone, sort of like Chroma's Guided Effigy + Hanzo's Ult Ryu ga wagatekigofuckyourself. THAT, now, would deserve an energy drain during Tentacle Swarm. A peeking Loch Ness is just such wasted potential.

Again, that's my imagination speaking. To me it was not exactly a miss, but I was hoping for so much more. If you're not doing anything with the Kraken, just remove that thing. It just makes me feel sad it wasn't used for what potentially could have been so much more.

Thankyou for the rework though. It was an interesting touch. But I'm just so sad for some reason. Maybe it's just me.

EDIT 4: Passive change please? Enemies already knocked away or CC-ed during slam, so why do we need a flailing tentacle at an empty space?

EDIT 5: Curative Undertow doesn't heal sentinels. Not sure about pets.

EDIT 6: I am supposed to pull enemies into Undertow, right? With loot floating on top of my puddle I CAN'T SEE. Undertow also can move, but the speed's so slow it's non-existent, and when I do, I don't pull enemies I've gobbled up with me. They just, emerge from my puddle.

Overall, I would consider this a mid-CC and mid-support frame, the latter part also ONLY if you equip augments. His damage in the so-called late game is non existent.

 

P.S.: If I build massive range though, will the tentacle count increase based on how many enemies there are? As opposed to the past when for example 10 tentacles for 10 meters to 10 tentacles for 50 meters if you build range.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Lorienzo
6

[Dwolfknight]

You know that you can Suck in enemies by left clicking right?

[13QZXXTTX]

I used to play constantly Frost Globe, every time I keep seeing the Globe, I swear it got smaller.Some thing must have happened. Well yeah I don't main Frost often unless you be needing ICE-GUY.

Just like Hydroids, reworks are reworks, trades buff for nerf, and you keep doing it until you get some thing that is OK, not really great in PvE.

You get what you asked for, more like. Already can see how Hydroid is totally become the old Oberon, or becoming the next Banshee.

[Lord_Datastorm]

4 minutes ago, maj.death said:

Did you read about how charging increases range and damage?

yes and the casting time is slower when you do it, you would need natural talent now to get the casting time to normal so you don't die. Also it had more range before the nerf.

 

[Lord_Datastorm]

3 minutes ago, Dwolfknight said:

You know that you can Suck in enemies by left clicking right?

yep if you are looking at them rather than area effect.

[BansheePrime]

4 minutes ago, Lord_Datastorm said:

yes and the casting time is slower when you do it, you would need natural talent now to get the casting time to normal so you don't die. Also it had more range before the nerf.

 

Casting time is obviously slower because you're charging the abiltiy... but you CAN MOVE while doing so. Hell, you can even cast that stuff while in your puddle, and personaly i'm not bothered by the reduced undertow range since you can move with it active and can left click enemies to pull them in. You sure about undertow costing more energy or did you just forget about duration effecting the energy drain too? Also... I'm really not sure about tentacles having LoS when they have this wonderful habit of attacking everything BUT what I see.

Edited August 10, 2017 by maj.death

[Duckboy3825]

10 minutes ago, pavlo555 said:

Tentacles and undertow are now just water and don't eat energy color. RIP best boifrendo hydroid.

Pls, give it a texture and energy color back. They need to be slimy for maximum pleasure fashionframe

I do kinda agree with the energy color thing, but personally I like the new textures a lot better. The tentacles look cooler but they look less like hentai what actual tentacles look like.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Duckboy3825

[Oranji]

I strongly think that the passive to generate additional tentacles are no longer necessary due to the tweaks you've made to his 4th skill.
I would personally want to see other options such as liquid form that lets bullets/projectiles/aoe to pass through him every once in a while or something similar to that.
Visual changes to the skills are majestic btw.
 

[ShadowFel]

After playing around with him a bit in the Simulacrum, I can say that I like what's happened here, for the most part, but it still doesn't address some of the core problems that Hydroid has.

Tempest Barrage's core problem remains that it isn't accurate.  No matter how much damage output he has while using it, if he can't rely on getting hits on enemies, it isn't a good ability that people will want to use.  If projectiles would target enemies within the effect instead of landing randomly, Hydroid's DPS would be greatly improved, and Tempest Barrage could be worth using as more than just crowd control for optimists. Also, while charging is a nice thought, it ultimately reduces his already abysmal energy efficiency, and doesn't really give anything in return.  Plus, it takes about as long to charge 1 cast as it does to cast it twice, which makes one wonder what the point of charging even is.  If we have to keep the charge, I would appreciate a charging animation of some kind, since as is it's a little hard to read if its actually being activated.  Also, if charging didn't cost additional energy, it would make it much more appealing.

I like that the enemies hit by Tidal Surge are now all carried with Hydroid.  It was annoying before when they'd just go flying off to the sides, so I appreciate the change.  I also appreciate having any ability to cancel it.  Unfortunately, it still moves uncontrollably fast, and having to cast another ability to cancel it leads back into Hydroid's terrible energy efficiency.  I've long felt like Tidal Surge should really be a 25 energy ability, and it would allow it to be less costly for what amounts to a directional CC combined with a mobility tool.

I LOVE what you've done with Undertow, it's a far more functional, enjoyable, and usable ability now.  The grabbing tentacles are a lovely touch, though I find myself wishing they had just a bit more range.  The greatly increased damage output is actually quite impressive, though I find myself wishing the damage built up just a bit faster.  I also like being able to move and cast while in Undertow.  However, there are still a few issues with it.  It still has the troubling issue of protecting enemies from other players.  While its increased damage makes that slightly less of a problem, we really shouldn't have any abilities that can save the lives of our enemies.  There's also the issue of energy efficiency, which, while I love the improved capabilities of Undertow, I do wish that they didn't all cost energy.  I suggest either removing the energy cost from movement, or allow us to move at full speed.  If you're going to charge us for the movement, you might as well let us burn through our energy at full speed.  I mean, Wukong can turn into a flying invisible immortal cloud and move at full speed while being charged for the movement (he can ever regen energy while doing so!), so I feel like having an immortal puddle of death that's bound to the ground that can move at full speed isn't too much to ask.

I'm afraid that, functionally, I don't see much of a difference when it comes to Tentacle Swarm.  I like the look of our little beastie friend, but since she doesn't DO anything, I find her to be a bit of a disappointment.  I like having all the extra tentacles from charging, but, honestly, I'd rather have Tentacle Swarm just cost 100 or 75 energy and do what it does when charged, while not have to sit there charging it.  Even when unexposed in Undertow, that additional charging time to make you have all the tentacles you may need can make the difference between holding an interception point and losing one.  I have a bit of a zany idea here on how you could make our kraken friend earn her keep: Upon casting, a bunch of tentacles and the kraken spawn.  The kraken then swims around near Hydroid, and if an enemy gets within a few meters of her and there isn't a tentacle that can reach them, she spawns a tentacle underneath them.  

I'd also appreciate it if Hydroid's passive was changed.  it's fun, but unless using some outside source of invisibility, Hydroid is still too squishy to be running around slamming the ground right in front of people.  I like how it's fun, but I like fun and useful better than just fun.

Overall, though, I really think that the thing that most needs to be addressed is that Hydroid needs some way to not be so energy hungry.  He's the only frame in the game that, even when using a fully ranked Energy Overflow passive, I find myself constantly running out of energy using if I try to use him to his full potential.

[Bluey01]

I tested his abilities on several enemies in the Simalcrum. Damage-wise, nothing significant has changed. His energy pool and energy consumption could use a bit more work into it. A rank 7 Primed Flow (350 energy) can be easily depleted by using his Tidal Surge while casting Undertow. I would suggest increasing his base energy pool, or reducing the energy required to cast a fully charged Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm. Speaking of which, the charge time for his Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm are way too long. I wouldn't fully charge those abilities while in the heat of a battle.

I really like the concept of his rework, but there are some tweaks that could be adjusted that could make him even better. Overall, I would say you're heading the right direction, DE.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Bluey01

[PsiWarp]

His survivability definitely skyrocketed.

Before:

• Tidal Surge allowed only brief invulnerability while surfing.
• Undertow was completely static and you couldn't do anything but re-emerge only to get downed before you can blink.

After:

• Tidal Surge can be cast while in Undertow, giving you limited mobility while staying invulnerable.
• Undertow is more interactive now with the tentacle grab. As long as you have energy to maintain the pool, you're invulnerable and able to cast powers and move. Reminds me of Nidus as you can opt to go full ability play and only bring out weapons if push comes to shove.

[Chroia]

Just ran a quick Lua surv (26 min), will have a more substantative feedback post when I've done some more strenuous content with him.

For now though:
 

2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

• Tempest Barrage can be cast while in Undertow and will now hit enemies submerged in Undertow.
• Tidal Surge can be used to move around without canceling Undertow (note that Tidal Surge speed - and hence distance - is halved when used in Undertow).
• Hydroid can now move while in Undertow at the expense of Energy.
• Tentacle Swarm will protrude from Hydroid’s Undertow if active when cast.

Special mention goes to
* Undertow can be cast while in air.
It's absolutely gorgeous. And hilarious. Just needs a(n optional) comical *SPLASH* sound when you land (volume based on landing speed).

This is pure gold.
Absolutely hilarious. Not sure how effective, but it's a great deal of fun.

If I had 1 request for this rework, it'd be to make Hydroid in a puddle count as low visibility. Invis'd work, if necessary.
That 2+3 interaction+visual just screams skulky stealth.

That said, I'm sad to report that

2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

• Tidal Surge can be used to move around without canceling Undertow (note that Tidal Surge speed - and hence distance - is halved when used in Undertow).
• Tidal Surge will now pull enemies along for the ride.

these two don't seem to work together. Not clear on whether that was the design intent or not.

In other words: 3, 2, enemies get submerged while they overlap with your 3, but don't get dragged along.

Also, I assume that his 1 doesn't have a charge up anim because it didn't before either?
Could it get one, please?  (Even just the current one, stretched out.)
Sometimes it doesn't start on a repeated cast, and you get no indication you're not doing anything.

* Need to check whether 1's targetting's better. It didn't seem too accurate before, but that might be PEBCAK.

* Need to check whether Tentacle Swarm's better at 'catching' enemies it didn't spawn under now.
Because previously it was explicitly, blatantly bad at it.

* Need to check whether 4's still as detrimental to aiming for things it doesn't kill outright. (The flailing... attack? The slam was pretty clear.)

Edited August 10, 2017 by Chroia

[AgentF117A]

Honestly, I'm a little disappointed because this feels like a visual overhaul. The visuals are great, but his abilities don't scale and don't work well with each other. I would suggest changing his 1 to not be RNG and be based on enemy location because hoping the barrage hits an enemy is a lot worse than having a guaranteed knock down on an area of effect. His 2 is a little weak. Maybe some kind of proc on the enemies or a wider wave because it's current use is only mobility and it's a bit expensive for that. His 3 is fun now, but it either needs to do more damage or have more synergy with his other abilities. His 4 just is underwhelming. It doesn't really kill enemies and makes them hard to hit and is really no different from what it was before. Maybe an exalted kraken or some sort of pet would be cool, or making tentacles do finishers or scaling damage or something because right now it feels very weak.

[Tesseract7777]

The new rework looks a lot better. 

A lot of the synergies between Undertow and Tidal Surge are somewhat similar to stuff I suggested, makes me think DE definitely reads all feedback threads. 

I think charging his 1 and 4 for more and better damage/range/tentacles is a good idea, to help get over the fact that they used to be only able to cover a very small amount of enemies at a time. 

The stat changes too, just like I suggested, he needed new stats for his base model (non prime) which has rarely ever happened in a rework. Hydroid did get sort of the boot when stamina was taken away, and he got nothing to replace that inflated stat, now he does!

I think some people are disappointed because they expected something else, or expected some of the abilities to actually be changed to be wholly different or replaced. And I think people should attempt to temper their expectations in that particular regard. If I recall correctly, the only time an ability has been truly, well and completely removed during a rework was Super Jump, and that ability was beyond obsolete and pointless. 

I will be taking my Hydroid for a spin in sorties and some other missions later today and I will report back with more detailed feedback later. 

I love all the synergies and new capabilities for and between Tidal Surge and Undertow, and I am really hoping they are even close to as fun to play as they sound. 

I'm sure there are some bugs and imperfections that could be tweaked, but knowing the game well enough, I am already pretty sure I am going to love the new hydroid, and that will be way better than the old one. 

I think people have to remember: DE tries to avoid drastic changes to the warframe itself these days, and in general, for reworks. Abilities tend to stay the same, and simply have stuff added, or have new synergies, or get major quality of life improvement. DE is not looking to change who the frame is, drastically alter the playstyle, or completely remove abilities. If you expect those things to happen, I think you will always be disappointed.

I'm not saying there isn't stuff that can be improved, there is always room for improvement in life, but this rework already sounds like pretty much just what Hydroid needed. 

Like I said I will have more detailed feedback later, but so far I really love what I have read in the patch notes, and am looking forward to testing him out. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[PsiWarp]

One thing about Tentacle Swarm and Undertow: you can't use Undertow grab on enemies being thrashed by Tentacle Swarm. It would be a nice QoL to be able to do that.

[Devouver]

It's a waste that the kraken just sits there for cosmetic. I think it would be awesome, if it actually swims around the range of the 4th ability. Even better if instead of having butt slapping tentacles failing around, it would be the kraken actually swimming around and jumping out of water, ravaging the battlefield. But i will settle with Kraken to be a little bit more active in the maximum range of the 4th ability.