[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[EternalOdyessy]

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

No thanks. There is a post just under yours suggesting the same thing and I think it would make him less fun to play as.

Can you explain why you'd prefer the puddle over taking control of the kraken?

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, EternalOdyessy said:

Can you explain why you'd prefer the puddle over taking control of the kraken?

Because right now Hydroid Synergizes well as being able to command water, not a kraken. He isn't a summoner. I prefer him to stay that way.

Plus he'll become a one trick pony with your suggestion, and it just plain doesn't sound fun.

[EternalOdyessy]

Just now, JSharpie said:

Because right now Hydroid Synergizes well as being able to command water, not a kraken. He isn't a summoner. I prefer him to stay that way.

Plus he'll become a one trick pony with your suggestion, and it just plain doesn't sound fun.

The Kraken isn't a summon, though. It's a channel. You become the kraken, a faster moving Undertow with synergy in cheaper abilities while it's used. If it was visually upgraded to look like a snake dipping in and out of the water as it moved around, you'd look and play the part of a beast.

I don't see how it'd make him a one trick pony.

[h4r1m40]

Guys there is one thing that you should reconsider, if you want Hydroid's „Undertow“ to drag enemies along.

Should DE decide to nerf or get rid of the damage that undertow deals, the possibility to troll with Hydroid will significantly increase as well.

If an Undertow that drags enemies along while moving or using your 2^nd ability, you can create enemy ambush site to troll you own team.

 

Just build negative power strength, high efficiency and high duration and troll you team hard. Suck up many high level enemies and make them spawn at the location of a fellow team-player.

If you think that “Undertow” back then was a meme, then take a guess what happens if it does no damage or little damage and drags enemies along. I cannot fathom why so many player do not see the risk of that?

 

I can already see a horde of trolls abusing that, ruining the reputation of my favorite warframe.

Edited August 18, 2017 by h4r1m40

[Cytobel]

Okay, so now we have a GAME-BREAKING damage interaction (which I'm not always against, mind you) allowing Hydroid to off Level 145's-150's in SECONDS, and we STILL aren't even CLOSE to having anything meaningful done to improve Hydroid.

So, here's the run-down:  Some of us really like Hydroid as he is right now, and I begrudge none of you that.  Others of us are pointing out that Hydroid had MASSIVE design flaws from day 1 that render him one of the worst possible choices available, and I'm in that boat.  Many other players simply do not give half a rat's &#! about this entire rework because Hydroid is "bad", or boring, or they simply don't like him for reason X.

The issue here is that you cannot really hope to fix group 3, you CAN make group 2 happy, but only at the expense of group 1's satisfaction.  HOWEVER, the major flaw to this arguement is that group 1 is a TINY fraction of the community, group 2 is the open-minded playerbase, and there is no help for group 3.  Following that logic, we need to consider pandering to group 2 while trying to avoid alienating group 1.

What this boils down to is simple:  Mechanics that do not fit the current game need to be overhauled.  Abilities that are ineffective and (now) costly wastes of energy (AND TIME) need to be reviewed (and FFS speed the charge-up or dramatically cut the overall cost, because otherwise Hydroid's rework is basically ability nerfs to what are largely considered some of the WORST abilities in game).  Buffing the 'Frame physically is nice, but when we're still looking at a 'Frame that HAS A GODDAMN CHARGE and IS NOT A TANK, then there are conflicting build ideas.

The issue here is that Hydroid had so much go into him for the purpose of design that he has different directions his "flavor" wants to pull his kit in.  Is he a tanky caster, or is he a fleet-footed rogue?  Is the concept of "tanky caster" too much to handle as it stands?  What is he supposed to do with water to make it dangerous*?

*[Hmmmm...., an incompressible fluid known for it's ability to store energy thermally and mechanically, known for it's highly corrosive nature, AND known for it's ability to permeate substances, not to mention the fact that it's in EVERY GODDAMN LIVING THING we know of?  Yeah, I "can't" see any ways to weaponize that, lets make him a Davey Jones knockoff.]

Edited August 18, 2017 by Cytobel

[ThiagoSampaio]

IMO, we do not need to change the skills because they are good skills with positive synergies, just a few improvements as we are asking.

I do not see all this bad side of Undertow, in my opinion it's a fun skill, especially now with all that synergy and high damage. And with every hotfix it gets better. Before I only saw complaints, now most compliments. It's not enough, but dude ... he's way better now.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

15 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Hydroid Fixes, Part IV! 

It's been four deployments since our Original Hydroid revisited. Here is the latest batch of fixes. We do plan on focusing more on fixes for future deployments. In the week since the rework, we've seen a lot of great feedback and have incorporated some big changes. We will be giving the rework more time in player's hands before we consider further big changes - but as always please place your feedback in appropriate subforums. 

This is the politician speech that translated in daily words means : " we are busy with Plains of Eidolon we don't have enough time nor resources to dig into more elaborate REAL REWORKS and we hope thise few QoL fixes narrow minded on his most boring ability aka the camp happy puddle will be enough "

Ps: everything proposed so far has been already enough time into players hands and clearly if u payed attention to the feedback there's a long way to go and none of the corrections implemented nearly came close to what the majority of the feedback was asking for.( last but not least a fix for the absurd ABYSMAL long charge up times, let alone all the rest )

This revisit is a huge and deep hole in the water ah !!!

[RivaAurelius]

Recently sentinel abilities, such as vacuum, were disabled while in undertow to avoid loot obstructing the view of the player while they were using undertow, however this does not fix the problem. Loot floats on the surface of undertow and obstructs the view of the player in undertow. I propose that the player should be able to pull loot into undertow the same way we can pull enemies into undertow. This would fix the problem with the obstruction of view.

[Windy_Wind]

At the moment, even though he does nice damage and very useful, his play style is really boring and slow in a fast pace game. I suggest changing his undertow into a placement ability like Limbo's Cataclysm and oberon's hallow. That way he can still run around and do other thing and can SHOOT into the puddle himself. If he wants to submerge, he can just stand on the puddle and hold 3. 

[Siic07]

I think it's a good idea, obstructs the view, it's very annoying.

[Squidsy22]

DEAR GOD YES.

 

Also, passive could be called "Pillage and Plunder"

Just a suggestion

 

-Glory unto The Golden Empire

[(PSN)crashtester17]

13 hours ago, Buddhakingpen said:

1-His changes made him MORE mobile. They gave you the option, but you can also be more mobile if you'd like to

2- Why do ppl complain about hydroid needing to sit in one spot, but dont complain half as hard about frost, or volt, or limbo?

The more mobile option is moving very slowly for extra energy or casting tidal surge and freeing enemies you've caught if they're still alive.

As for the reason people don't complain about frost, volt, or limbo, none of them can go afk or encourage that. Enemies can still walk through frost bubble, and volt is one of the most mobile warframes, and limbo stasis can easily be ended early by anyone spam shooting weapons like the sonicor or quanta. 

In addition to all that, all the warframes you listed can still use their weapons with any of their powers. Hydroid puddle stops you from shooting or using your melee and the most you get to do is drag enemies into your puddle cast tempest barrage on it till they die and move on. No parkour, no shooting your guns, and no melee combos. Hydroid is now the most overpowered boring warframe that requires no skill to play. The only argument that he's not overpowered is other warframes can kill more quickly than he can. However they are not invincible when they do it and the ones that are have a condition to their invincibility. So the most you can do if somone brings ember is don't use puddle and use your other three powers to get to all the enemies. 

The only change I would want more than any other is you cast you puddle on an area and don't hide away in it. I don't want the ability removed I just want it to not encourage going afk. 

[(PSN)crashtester17]

42 minutes ago, Windy_Wind said:

At the moment, even though he does nice damage and very useful, his play style is really boring and slow in a fast pace game. I suggest changing his undertow into a placement ability like Limbo's Cataclysm and oberon's hallow. That way he can still run around and do other thing and can SHOOT into the puddle himself. If he wants to submerge, he can just stand on the puddle and hold 3. 

Can we please get this?

[Nazrel]

1 hour ago, Windy_Wind said:

At the moment, even though he does nice damage and very useful, his play style is really boring and slow in a fast pace game. I suggest changing his undertow into a placement ability like Limbo's Cataclysm and oberon's hallow. That way he can still run around and do other thing and can SHOOT into the puddle himself. If he wants to submerge, he can just stand on the puddle and hold 3. 

While i agree with your undertow "fix", Hydroid would still have survivability issues. (if he leaves the pool, he'll die pretty quickly)

 

His kit is broken imo, he doesn't need a few tweaks, he needs a real rework.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Nazrel

[TigranZ]

A major change that needs to happen is to his 4, right now it doesn't really have the oomph of a 4th ability in any regards and is outscaled by his 3rd ability. It needs a real reason to be his 4th as atm it's mainly used as an add-on to his puddle and nothing else. I mean right now even his 1 arguably is of more use than his 4. 

That is incredibly bad seeing as to how my understanding of how each ability is supposed to offer something more than the last. 

Also last thing, when will the Kraken actually do something? Right now it appears for 3 seconds then slowly sinks. It has such potential and yet it is being wasted on something that has no actual use. It's a waste of a perfectly good model that I'm sure a lot of us would love to see being used in some way shape or form. Even if only an animation of some kind. Even if it only swam around and picked up loot for you whilst you were in your undertow it'd be an improvement (although a small one.)

[Bengosha]

This current set up is amazing. After years of seeing people hate on him, hes now worth the efforts to farm him. Seeing him actually viable in most mission types for things OTHER than pilfering swarm is the greatest thing. I love it, my clan loves it, and we cant wait for the prime.

[18tyweslow]

I think that Tidal Surge's cost of 50 energy is too much. To make it worse, it doesn't bring enemies with it.

Tidal Surge needs to be more efficient, and needs to keep enemies sucked up when it moves. I could see Hydroid being a frame that moves around the map, sucking up enemies and sending them to Davy Jones' locker. Yarr. But as it stands, with Tidal Surges extreme cost and inability to keep sucked up enemies in Undertow, it makes playing Hydroid difficult. The inability to be mobile in a constant movement game really hinders his potential.

My suggestion; simply lower Tidal Surges cost. Maybe keep it the same cost when you're not in Undertow, but give it a reduced cost while in your puddle-y form. Also, let sucked up enemies move with Hydroid as he travels around in Undertow. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by 18tyweslow

[Chipputer]

Not digging through 20ish pages since my last post but:

Why is Undertow advertised as dealing a % of the enemy's health as damage and yet clearly does more damage if the enemies are inflicted with, specifically, corrosive procs and/or have all their armor stripped?

This can easily be seen by giving any amount of armored enemies the S U C C and then shooting a high status corrosive weapon into the pool. The damage skyrockets. Do this with any other weapon type and it barely moves. With level 150 Corrupted Heavy Gunner Eximus units, a buddy and I were able to reach 6 digit Undertow damage numbers in less than a second using the proper weapon types. A quick switch of elemental type and we weren't able to do this, any more.

This can be seen, solo, by equipping Corroding Barrage and using that on your own pool. You'll easily reach 5 or 6 digit damage numbers in an extremely low amount of time.

[Quedion]

Agreed. Make it like 15 energy.

[PsiWarp]

Right now when Tidal Surge is used in Undertow, it appears that aside from only traveling half the distance, Tidal Surge's pull radius is also halved or severely reduced. Why should it cost the full amount of energy if its effects are halved? Reducing the cost to half (25 energy) when in Undertow would help.

The pull radius shouldn't be affected either, which should make it easier to swallow enemies. I wonder if Tidal Surge's damage is halved in Undertow too? That just feels half*ssed.

[YellowVolt]

Honestly, I think Hydroid is in a much better spot then he was before based off what I've seen of him, but I really do believe he needs just a couple of more changes before I can say he's alright:

First off, the passive needs to be replaced. While it might of been an ok idea back then, its nowadays considered to be one of the least favored passives in the game and is honestly quite situational. Having to melee slam over and over again for a RNG chance to spawn a single tentacle just doesn't feel like its worth the effort. While I don't have an exact idea on what it could be replaced with right now, maybe he could have a chance to regain energy in some form (like when he pulls enemies into Undertow)? That would certainly help with his kit.

Second off, the idea of the Kraken spawning from Tentacle Swarm is amazing; the design itself is also quite nice, but at the moment... all it does is look scary and then goes back into the abyss. Wouldn't it be better if the Kraken itself actually helped Hydroid out? For example, you could have the Kraken attack enemies and help pull them into Undertow for Hydroid similar to how he can manually do so now or alternatively, have it cause chaos across the battlefield by attacking or even scaring enemies. That way, the design itself gets more use and it proves to be a helpful asset for Hydroid in the long run.

Third off, it really feels strange that using Tidal Surge while in Undertow does not drag enemies along with Hydroid and instead leaves them behind. I really do feel like this needs to be changed so that Hydroid can actually move enemies with him, which would allow him to take enemies straight to his teammates or at least dump them nearby before proceeding to gather up more or even do some other stuff while in Undertow. Right now, it just feels strange that enemies can't be taken with him while using the Undertow + Tidal Surge combo, especially with the range and distance reduction that's in play for the former ability. In addition, I believe Tidal Surge should have control in all directions instead of one single direction.

These three main changes (at least to me) would be enough for me to say that Hydroid's in a good spot, and I hope DE takes these ideas into consideration. If you do not wish to change him ability wise, that's fine, but adding these features in would help make him better for the long run.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by YellowVolt

[Zaebin]

I gotta say, I'm really, really hoping that they change it so that if you move while in Undertow the enemies that were drowning to just leave your puddle. I would really like them to come along even when using Tidal Surge. It would be a great help to move around gathering up enemies and drowning them in the process.

[PsiWarp]

7 minutes ago, Zaebin said:

I gotta say, I'm really, really hoping that they change it so that if you move while in Undertow the enemies that were drowning to just leave your puddle. I would really like them to come along even when using Tidal Surge. It would be a great help to move around gathering up enemies and drowning them in the process.

Yeah same here. I mean if it feels too OP to keep every single enemy in Undertow once you capture them, then limit it to half the amount you have in the pool (cause Tidal Surge is halved the effectiveness anyway).

Better than how it is right now with only 1 or 2 enemies flung by your mini-wave into your new pool spot, while the rest of them dry off after you spent lots of energy grabbing them from range.

[(PSN)crashtester17]

Getting straight to it

Tempest Barrage:

Fine as is.

Tidal Surge:

Changes to a toggle where instead of being invincible and launching yourself forward what if you surfed on top of the tidal surge. 

Undertow:

Cast it and it works like normal. jumping will launch you out of the puddle and you can move freely while the puddle remains stationary for a couple of seconds. Stepping back onto the puddle will return you to it.

Tentacle Swarm:

Tentacles grab enemies and constrict them, melee striking the kraken head makes the tentacles frenzy for 3 to 5 seconds before constricting again. 

Passive:

Melee kills have a chance to spawn a tentacle max of 5

 

Feedback is welcomed. Purpose of this is to keep abilities the same with simple additions only exception being Tidal Surge since there is currently little reason or incentive to use it. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by (PS4)crashtester17

[Koldraxon-732]

I think Hydroid's only flaw now is the lack of a valid passive. Something to do with Status Duration being longer could do the trick.

Now, I regret to distract the train, but I have noticed something with Hydroid Prime.

Spoiler

Hydroid Prime (as seen from an official Warframe post).

[Insert preferred image of a Pirate, maybe one from your own mind]

[Insert preferred image of a Samurai, maybe one from your own mind]

What else I can see in Hydroid Prime, especially at an angle like that, is in these spoilers.

Spoiler

Darth Vader. Using a fitting image found online; makes it look like he's staring at a screen, and Hydroid Prime on the other side of that visual interface being