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[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback


[DE]Danielle
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OK here i go

Tempest Barrage: 

-You can make this ability to "stop" enemies or a small cc area, just add a quicker spawn of the rain an hold to use. (and obviously stop hold to stop the rain)

Tidal Surge:

-Like tempest barrage make the ability hold to use because use undertow to stop yourself is just realy bad sometimes take more time put you "in and out" from undertow than wait to the ability end.

-You can't use a build to "Tidal Impunity" augment (the mod is nice in radiation misions) because if you put a lot of duration your tidal surge is uncontrollable.(you can fix this making tidal surge "hold to use")

Undertow:

-Right now the ability is fine but if you gonna nerf "Corroding Barrage" augment don't make as a solution "other player can shoot undertow to kill enemies" becouse a warframe that need another warframe to work is just bad.

Tentacle Swarm:

-If a tentacle spawn in a bad place it stay there during the rest of the ability.

-What happen when 4 of your 15? tentacles spawn in bad places? you have to use the ability again whit doble energy and a lot of time. The solution for this should be someting like "empty tentacles spawn again every ? seconds in the area of effect" 

Passive:

-Actually i don't care but a lot of people don't like it so... Loot radar? (easy to implement and is a pirate thing)

srry for my english is not my first language. (my english is bad but no more than hydroid(ok no))

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Hydroid's rework needs more animations to go with his reworked abilities:

  • Undertow
    • Enemies inside should show struggle as they are engulfed in watery terror. Enemies trying to swim out and plunge back into a watery grave.
    • Limbs, bodies, and items should float up to the top after enemy death.
    • Water should move violently as more enemies are engulfed.
  • Tentacle swarm
    • Kraken should swim around for the duration of the ability
    • Coupled with undertow, Kraken will eat bodies and other things floating in the water.
    • Tentacles will pull enemies apart ( two tentacles playing tug of war)
    • Tentacles dunking enemies into the water over and over
    • Tentacles feeding the Kraken near death enemies

I'm still thinking of more animations for other abilities but Hydroid is being too PG for killing with water.

giphy-downsized-large.gif

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Pretty happy, personally, with all the changes to Hydroid. Most of the suggestions I wanted were implemented (though I really didn't want the ability to cast 1 at range while puddled... don't really like degenerate play that incentivizes staying in puddle for long periods of time).

Really dig that his 3 feels like a part of his kit now. Can bullet jump, turn into a puddle, grab a bunch of enemies as I hit the ground, cast 1 to pin them in place (and start melting armor) then just bail out of puddle to start tearing them to pieces with my trusty Mios (though Jat Kittag w/ its AoE augment and Condition Overload would be the ultimate weapon for this). Gotta be honest, raking in enemies with tentacles feels a lot better than I thought it would, so thanks for suggesting that. The nerf on the puddle size was fine, imho, AFK-droid is not really good for the game, and sitting in puddle the whole match is definitely not all that helpful to the team.

 

2's even better for quickly sweeping up enemies and pinning them before they can recover... though occasionally the monster ragdoll strength leads to moments like this.

 

The ability to channel 1 for longer duration is pretty great. You can still quick cast for when you need it at the earliest possible moment to interdict enemies, while buying time to channel and secure an area for a longer period of time (or not if just don't need to).

 

4 is... well, amazing. Never thought I'd see the day when the tentacles weren't random in their application of CC. Even if you don't get a huge number in a tight area they still provide damned effective CC.

 

Passive's still a bit too random (like the idea having a max of 5 tentacles w/ 100% chance to spawn them on ground finisher kill).

 

Okay, so from my PoV, things this didn't especially address:

Still not a huge return on building Power Strength. You need a *lot* of Duration and Efficiency to make the bulk of your powers usable as frequently and as effective as they really need to be.

Corroding Barrage is still by miles the best all-around augment. No matter which faction you face you can be completely unconcerned about armor, keep your E Siphon, and as the real kicker, setup tons of status procs for Condition Overload-using melee weapons. Need to test Curative Undertow, but I suspect you're not gonna be doing much team healing with it. The aug for 2 is still definitely your second best aug, though its usefulness is gonna be pretty hit-and-miss for your teammates. Pilfering Swarm is functional if you're doing the lootcave thing with a Nekros, but is, all around, not generally doing much for your team otherwise.

 

1 is still damned dependent on range. Stretch+Overextended makes it amazing. Stretch makes it useful.  100% or less range and it's just a complete waste, especially in the face of your 4. Not really sure how to change it though without breaking it one way or the other.

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Serious issue with Tidal Surge I have found so far:

  • Please lower energy cost for tidal surge, it costs too much energy for what it does. Rhino charge can do the same thing but with much MUCH less energy cost and can be further reduced with combo window.
  • It should be allowed to be canceled either by rolling, jumping or pressing 2 again without the need of using undertow.
  • enemy affected by undertow should be dragged along when using  tidal surge.
  • And please change it to being affected by range mod instead of duration mod.
Edited by Windy_Wind
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As of his current state 20/08/17

He's certainly geared towards CC, but with about 25% overall ability to actually kill with his abilities.
I feel that the following (after my own testing) would help him to shine that much more in this 75-25% role.


1st- Remove the potential for Tempest Barrage to hit any part of the map, except on the area/floor it was cast upon. In some instances the terrain would completely negate his 1st ability.

2nd- Add a 50-70% chance of a cold proc on Tidal Surge (Maybe even 100% depending on power strength?) Probably the most fun of his recent changes, and this would allow all those swept up enemies to be much better dealt with once they've been bundled up or even flung into the void.
In addition perhaps allowing Tidal Surge to be cancelled by activating the ability again mid-surge instead of having to rely on Undertow.

3rd- Hold sprint to move marginally faster at greater cost to energy drain? Cold proc on enemies that are still alive after Undertow is cancelled.

4th- Increase amount of Tentacles at max charge. Either double or 150% of what it is currently. As it stands, once charged fully the max amount of tentacles limit his area of cover severely in some instances, thus making open areas almost pointless when using Hydrioid's fully charged 4th.

I just want him to make the Grineer on Uranus wish they never made constructs there.
buXZLYu.gif

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What is the point of charging tempest barrage for double damage and increased duration for double the cost when casting it twice in a row costs the same, does the same amount of damage and the only downside is that it doesn't last as long

Edited by frenzy64
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19 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Pretty happy, personally, with all the changes to Hydroid. Most of the suggestions I wanted were implemented (though I really didn't want the ability to cast 1 at range while puddled... don't really like degenerate play that incentivizes staying in puddle for long periods of time).

Really dig that his 3 feels like a part of his kit now. Can bullet jump, turn into a puddle, grab a bunch of enemies as I hit the ground, cast 1 to pin them in place (and start melting armor) then just bail out of puddle to start tearing them to pieces with my trusty Mios (though Jat Kittag w/ its AoE augment and Condition Overload would be the ultimate weapon for this). Gotta be honest, raking in enemies with tentacles feels a lot better than I thought it would, so thanks for suggesting that. The nerf on the puddle size was fine, imho, AFK-droid is not really good for the game, and sitting in puddle the whole match is definitely not all that helpful to the team.

 

2's even better for quickly sweeping up enemies and pinning them before they can recover... though occasionally the monster ragdoll strength leads to moments like this.

 

The ability to channel 1 for longer duration is pretty great. You can still quick cast for when you need it at the earliest possible moment to interdict enemies, while buying time to channel and secure an area for a longer period of time (or not if just don't need to).

 

4 is... well, amazing. Never thought I'd see the day when the tentacles weren't random in their application of CC. Even if you don't get a huge number in a tight area they still provide damned effective CC.

 

Passive's still a bit too random (like the idea having a max of 5 tentacles w/ 100% chance to spawn them on ground finisher kill).

 

Okay, so from my PoV, things this didn't especially address:

Still not a huge return on building Power Strength. You need a *lot* of Duration and Efficiency to make the bulk of your powers usable as frequently and as effective as they really need to be.

Corroding Barrage is still by miles the best all-around augment. No matter which faction you face you can be completely unconcerned about armor, keep your E Siphon, and as the real kicker, setup tons of status procs for Condition Overload-using melee weapons. Need to test Curative Undertow, but I suspect you're not gonna be doing much team healing with it. The aug for 2 is still definitely your second best aug, though its usefulness is gonna be pretty hit-and-miss for your teammates. Pilfering Swarm is functional if you're doing the lootcave thing with a Nekros, but is, all around, not generally doing much for your team otherwise.

 

1 is still damned dependent on range. Stretch+Overextended makes it amazing. Stretch makes it useful.  100% or less range and it's just a complete waste, especially in the face of your 4. Not really sure how to change it though without breaking it one way or the other.

I couldn't agree more

I hope they do not bug the Corrosive Barrage because of this "Now our friends can shoot the puddle for more damage!"

As -Jakal- said, it will not be nice to be depending on others ...

It's fine now, just needs a few more small improvements, nothing glaring

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I like what DE is doing with Hydroid. Making his abilities synergize is great, but his Undertow ability is a bit.....broken. This reminds me of the Limbo nuke that had to be removed because of how powerful Cataclysm scaled. This issue with Undertow, on the other hand, is that even with negative power strength Undertow can easily kill level 95 enemies with heavy armor. I would test higher if I was a high enough mastery rank. I'm not asking for DE to nerf Undertow hard, but to at least make the ability do less damage. If Undertow is left the way it is, I predict an upset of players that will complain about the nerfs given to frames like Limbo or Mag.

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Tidal surge the main mobile skill can be modded for longer duration that makes the ability faster than bullet jumping. The problem is theres not really enough spare mod slots to build duration as you definitely need to build efficiency and range to makeup for the limitations of his other abilities. It doesnt leave allot for survivability mods either.

I have tried playing him without worrying about the range issues and when i did i loved using his tidal surge ability more. But i wasnt finding it useful in terms of controlling or gathering crowds of enemies. It was just a good substitute for quickly getting across the map. I think when tidal surge finishes it should cause an explosion of water dealing damage like a wave crashing on rocks. Perhaps cause blast or frost damage when it makes contact with enemies.

I've found practical uses for Undertow and tentacle swarm however i think these abilities are too automated and constrictive on other tools and warframe abilities like gunplay, Banshee, Nova, Saryn etc.

I dont like how immobile his abilitys make him at the moment especially in undertow. I cant even see a logical reason why his movement is hindered in this state. It certainly would'nt be overpowered because its not like he can kite and deal damage while in it. At the very least Tidal surge should'nt cost any energy to cast while inside Undertow.

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Outside of any kinds of bugs, I've really been massively enjoying Hydroid since his rework! He's got improved area of effect damage and control, and I've been seeing a lot of value on Corrosive Barrage.

Barrage is good AoE clear, Undertow is great survivability, control and assassination, and Tentacle Swarm is excellent for control. Mixing abilities together allows Hydroid a good mixture of control and damage and I'm confident enough to bring him on Sorties. And I enjoy playing him, too! I'd say gameplay wise, he's pretty damn solid.

The only thing I'd like to see changed is that his Undertow should also render him undetectable to Corpus vault lasers. Just as a little touch to make him a fun choice for Spy missions.

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So, barrage still hits archways but you can charge it in order to waist even more energy.

Tidal Surge is still just an energy expensive, clunky way to move around but you can cancel it now by using puddle instead of just recasting tidal surge.

puddle is smaller but deals mild scaling damage. Oh and people can stand around the fishing hole shooting into it.

Everything you do now is from the puddle so you don't even have to worry about moving... But you can move in the puddle super duper slowly at the cost of energy

Swarm is smaller and has a slug...

Also chargeable if you haven't gotten enough of that sweet sweet energy waisting.

Lastly, if you want to be effective, you NEED CORRODING BARRAGE. 

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1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Clandaustino said:

So, barrage still hits archways but you can charge it in order to waist even more energy.

Tidal Surge is still just an energy expensive, clunky way to move around but you can cancel it now by using puddle instead of just recasting tidal surge.

puddle is smaller but deals mild scaling damage. Oh and people can stand around the fishing hole shooting into it.

Everything you do now is from the puddle so you don't even have to worry about moving... But you can move in the puddle super duper slowly at the cost of energy

Swarm is smaller and has a slug...

Also chargeable if you haven't gotten enough of that sweet sweet energy waisting.

Lastly, if you want to be effective, you NEED CORRODING BARRAGE. 

You don't need Corroding Barrage, at all, I never run it and still contribute to sorties.  The thing is, even prior to the QoL he got, you had to build him with mods a certain way to make him viable.  If you wanna use his 4, strength and duration are key, along with neg range, this clumps all the tenticles up into a small area maximizing their damage and zone denial, but minimizes his ability to cc large areas.  And things like that, No other frame has that issues of needing to sacrifice one aspect of their abilities to make them more able to kill things.  No other frames have choose if they wanna have their abilities to kill things good (if those things even get to the small spots he can pump damage into to effectively kill things.

 

Ember: WoF CC and Damage, no need to choose between which you wanna be effective at

Rhino: Stomp: Heavy/hard cc, and some damage but his entire kit is cc focused, not damage focused

Volt: CC and Damage from ult no need to choose which one should be focused

Then we have Hydroid

Hydroid: Ult deals better damage the more tightly packed it is, but works better for cc the more spread out it is and he has to take almost as long to full charge it as Nekros takes to summon the shades, but doesn't have endless range like the shades effectively do, doesn't distract/pull enemies off others like the shades do, costs a good bit more energy than the shades do, and doesn't last as long as the shades do

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Im getting sick of this, both the barrage and the tentacles are useless for crowd control.

With the right timing and the "proper" wall placement these skills become useless in what was supposed to be their primary function.

The charge up mechanic only made the initial casting slower.

Tell me whats the reason the barrage needs to wait 1 second between each salvo? To let the grineer run throught it or what? Why cant it gets its duration cut in half but make the salvo appear instantly and continue the attack till it "runs out" of ammo?

Whats the point of having 20 tentacles when the 21th and 22nd enemy just runs trought them as they are all "occupied"? Why cant it atleast have a whirlpool around the krakens head to slow and slightly damage the enemies or something to make it reliable?

Serously Nyx physic bolts without the augment offer better CC than this 2 skills.

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1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Clandaustino said:

So, barrage still hits archways but you can charge it in order to waist even more energy.

Tidal Surge is still just an energy expensive, clunky way to move around but you can cancel it now by using puddle instead of just recasting tidal surge.

puddle is smaller but deals mild scaling damage. Oh and people can stand around the fishing hole shooting into it.

Everything you do now is from the puddle so you don't even have to worry about moving... But you can move in the puddle super duper slowly at the cost of energy

Swarm is smaller and has a slug...

Also chargeable if you haven't gotten enough of that sweet sweet energy waisting.

Lastly, if you want to be effective, you NEED CORRODING BARRAGE. 

You forgot that swarm is still an rng fest what if all tentacles get occupied will just let them throught.

 

DE fix the RNG aspect of both barrage and tentacles.

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31 minutes ago, HerpDerpy said:

Why hoes Hydroid need to be a CC frame?

And why does everyone think CC frames should just be "press one button to control the entire map"

Not only is Hydroid very powerful as of right now, but all of his abilities have cc capabilities.

Sure thing, maybe... But Hydroid still piece of useless junk. And thats all.

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Would you like god-mode on all the other frames while we're at it?  Because that's essentially what you're asking for: The ability to completely stop all enemies from doing damage, so that you don't need anything that resembles skill to play the game.

You can build Hydroid so he can have 100% barrage up-time without exceeding his energy regen.  Given that capability, less than 100% knockdown is fine.

I suggest you learn how to shoot at the enemies that aren't knocked down, instead of expecting the game to be dumbed down so you can play it by pressing just one button.

Edited by polarity
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