[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[Twistedsparkle]

the charging up mechanic is pretty horrible at this point
DE nerfed the base range so bad that even when its charged you will get abysmally small area of rng tentacles and heavy rain

YOU NEED TO FIX THIS ASAP

tempest barrage and tentacle swarm:
-increase the range to what it was before and then add more range on top of that based on the charge
-damage scaling is still very bad
-and please give tempest and tentacles that homing in ability

[Meneliki]

My Hydroid rework feedback:

• Armor/Shield buffs - nice. Much needed.
• Tempest Barrage changes - cool. Need some kind of indication that It's being charged, though. (The hot fix was supposed to address this, but didn't as far as I can tell)
• Tidal Surge - Why is Undertow required to stop the surge? Why not just re-tap Tidal Surge? And then tap again to go again? Yay mobility/crowd control! Instead, we just kindof... stop. At the cost of even more energy.
• Undertow - Nice that we can move with it, but for the energy cost of it, we should be moving a lot faster. Also, enemies should be dragged with the puddle, not left behind. Otherwise, we can't really move can we. Damage is too low to be useful - by the time you've finally killed something with Undertow, you've run out of life support. Oops! Can pull stuff in with tentacles! Cool! Costs energy! Not cool! Also, can we remove the up-front casting cost of Undertow? Energy to channel, not cast.
• Tentacle Swarm - Cool that we can charge it. Nice new visuals.
• General - Hydroid is wayyy too energy hungry. His energy economy need some kind of look at. I feel like I'm shopping for a car every time I consider casting one of his abilities.

Maybe Hydroid Prime will have a hilariously excessive energy pool like Oberon Prime and all this won't be as much of an issue. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Meneliki

[Sickle_Slayer]

26 minutes ago, -Defeater- said:

This. At best he is zephyr tier cc now, unpredictable and 0 damage to show for it. at 195 str he cant even kill a lvl 50 lancer, like come on. 

I don't understand where you can say he can't kill lvl 50 lancers. On numerous tests, and even with only 115% power strength he is killing the entire room full of Lancers in the simulacrum by only casting Tentacle Swarm once.

[Meneliki]

Just now, StarSnake said:

Hydroid's kraken do nothing but standing there looking with empties eyes.

It would be really cool to see hydroid becoming that kraken and biting everything he sees.

Or at least, do something with him.

I imagined his 4th rework as something like, tentacles coming out of his back and throwing things around, and you could move around with it kindof like Ember's 4th.

[Buddhakingpen]

HYDROID ISN'T A DAMAGE FRAME.  PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING THAT YOUR POWERS AREN'T KILLING THINGS.  

Just thought I'd leave a psa for the "i put 300% power  strength on him and couldn't nuke level 60 enemies" kind of knuckleheads out there.

Hydroid is a cc frame that enables melee stealth multipliers for his team. He's  not a nuker. Try thinking of him like vauban.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

1 hour ago, Lanieu said:

Agreed. This was a bad update with so much hype after just one day of a tease.

No

 

its awesome

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

2 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

HYDROID ISN'T A DAMAGE FRAME.  PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING THAT YOUR POWERS AREN'T KILLING THINGS.  

Just thought I'd leave a psa for the "i put 300% power  strength on him and couldn't nuke level 60 enemies" kind of knuckleheads out there.

Hydroid is a cc frame that enables melee stealth multipliers for his team. He's  not a nuker. Try thinking of him like vauban.

exactly, the only reason people complain about warframes is that the warframe cant instantly kill lv60-100 enemies

 

Hydroid was always a beast, even against lv100 enemies

its just not his powers you use to kill, its your weapons combined with the CC of his powers

he overall is a badass, and now with this update, someone who actually likes and uses hydroid, hes EVEN MORE AWESOME

 

plus everyone only ever complains about warframes they dont use, and mostly about his passive

which his passive is incredibly useful when you use hydroid with the right weapons

combined with any heavy slam weapons, {stances} he can create tons of tentacles for free

giving all them pilfering swarm, and dropping loot everywhere

[morningstar999]

42 minutes ago, -Defeater- said:

This. At best he is zephyr tier cc now, unpredictable and 0 damage to show for it. at 195 str he cant even kill a lvl 50 lancer, like come on. 

He couldn't deal well with anything level 60-70 them much before the rework -but I just testing him now and I didn't have any problems myself. (not tested on gineer yet admittedly) as for cc issue, I generally used to out kill people 90% of the time in my hydroid before the re-work, and with more accurate tentacles I can't see it being harder. (and Im not sure how people struggle his whole thing is CC caster)

I am unsure if they still do finishing damage though (the 4th power)? I hope thats still the case.

--------------

anyway I'm really digging how well everything is synergised  and that you can cast stuff in undertow. I don't like that the tentacles now grip on to enemies for so long as you end up with one enemy at the end of a wave stuck on a tentacle and you its waving around so much you cant just shoot the damn thing but have to wait until the powers done. having it throw them about/away was much easier to deal with.

The fact that it shows you the area it'll cast in in a big bonus, and the Armour buff us a huge plus.

I also think undertow is still too weak in terms of damage per-second, I shouldn't need to sit as a puddle for a minute just to kill one thing for example. as other people have said even if it just stripped armour or something that would be a buff.

efficiency is a little bit high for the stacking/carrying enemies in the puddle and such personally. but then it always was...

Edited August 10, 2017 by morningstar999

[MegalomaniacalMegalodon]

I've always been a fan of water themed things in games, so Hydroid and Frost are mah broskies.  I just finished forma'ing Hydroid to see how he felt going through the ranks.  Took me awhile to get used to using all of his abilities together, but I got it down.  I still find his Tidal Surge hard to work into what I want to accomplish, but it is definitely in a better place with simply being able to stop it when I need to with Undertow.  Grabbing guys with Undertow is SO satisfying, thank you guys it's really funny and fun.  The ultimate and water effects are great.  Tempest Barrage feels a little clunky to get out, the charge feels like it needs an animation like how the Tentacle Swarm uses the old animation on hold. 

OK so now my only real critique of things that still need more looking into.  His passive is now completely ignorable.  You guys have added a cool theme to his moves with charging up the spells and channeling abilities together.  I feel like he needs a passive based on rewarding him for spending more energy and having more abilities active.  How about a personal energy regen based on how much "water" is out from his spells.  So for how many square meters his abilities are affecting he gains a bit more energy back.  If that is too dangerous of a buff, then maybe overshields?  Armor?  Health?

Thanks guys, always been a fan of Hydroid, still am, and I will be tomorrow!  Just... please look into his passive, it looks lazy on your guys' part and right now encourages players into a forced situation where certain melee stances and weapons are clearly stronger.  I mean, Cyclone Kraken (yes, the literal Kraken stance) uses his passive less than Sundering Weave.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

1 minute ago, morningstar999 said:

He couldn't deal well with anything level 60-70 them much before the rework -but I just testing him now and I didn't have any problems myself. (not tested on gineer yet admittedly) as for cc issue, I generally used to out kill people 90% of the time in my hydroid before the re-work, and with more accurate tentacles I can't see it being harder. (and Im not sure how people struggle his whole thing is CC caster)

I am unsure if they still do finishing damage though (the 4th power)? I hope thats still the case.

--------------

anyway I'm really digging how well everything is synergised  and that you can cast stuff in undertow. I don't like that the tentacles now grip on to enemies for so long as you end up with one enemy at the end of a wave stuck on a tentacle and you its waving around so much you cant just shoot the damn thing but have to wait until the powers done. having it throw them about/away was much easier to deal with.

The fact that it shows you the area it'll cast in in a big bonus, and the Armour buff us a huge plus.

I also think undertow is still too weak in terms of damage per-second, I shouldn't need to sit as a puddle for a minute just to kill one thing for example. as other people have said even if it just stripped armour or something that would be a buff.

hydroids puddle has that awesome killing potential that inaros desecrate has... it may take an hour, but it will get there, eventually

woot inaros rework is on its way, in a year

[grapplepie]

I'm sorry if this is not the proper place to post bugs about hydroid post-rework, but I'd like to mention that with the ability "Tempest Barrage", I was casting it from a locker room(small tile) aiming through the door onto another larger tile and the ability was casting at the edge of the locker room tile at the door and not being cast aimed at the next tile over.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

15 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Questions:

FIrst off. DID YOU LEARN NOTHING FROM THE OBERON REWORK?! Seriously did you learn ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? Why range nerf? WHY?! 

Hydroid's abilites feel nice going from all the stuff I'm watching. It's just even against level fifties I'm seeing double digit numbers. His barrage and tentacles still don't really do any consistent enemy contact. 

WHY was hydroid's cost upped? 

What about his passive? Currently it's useless. Congratulations at least Oberon's passive has a use even if you don't like the thing.

Why not have his 3 have a higher movement speed so you go at warframe walking speed. Make it so you can shoot into the puddle so that you can damage enemies hydroid has in the pool.

Make Hydroid's 3 'scaling' distribute a percentage of the enemies effective health to all enemies in the pool. Like... one percent per tic.

oberon has no range nerf, that oberon rework was sick, its just insane

 

i dont know why you are so angry ?

[Insizer]

Just now, DarkOvion said:

I'm not.

Limbo went from a unique scalpel, all about *control* that was *very* good if you knew what you were doing, and required some challenge to play effectively, while using all 4 powers and a lot of synergy

To a generic Crowd Control spam 4 frame, where you mainly just press 4 and occasionally 2, that has very limited control as other players can shut it off by spamming shots within the rift as the 1 is somewhat awkward to use and hits groups, and the 3 actually hurts other powers effectiveness. And it's still glitchy and inconsistent with interactions, actually *lost* graphics from the powers.

It might be 'powerful', but it's still not really Limbo anymore.

_{This really, was due to a lot of apathy, and even outright distate for Limbo from the team, despite assurances that Limbo would retain being a scalpel, it is as far from as can be.}

Hydroid so far seems to have received an incredible buff on all fronts, with much improved graphics.

I think that Limbo's rework was actually pretty good.  His usability is better thanks to his passive change.  Previously his kit was just banishing enemies/himself and a damage buff.  Now he has more capabilities; capabilties that can be "very good if you knnow what you are doing".  His Banish I consider better as it wastes less energy and allows allies who are accidentally banish along with enemies to still attack them. And, if I recall the previous visuals correctly, banished enemies are more obvious.  You say that he's not limbo anymore, but to me Limbo is more like where Limbo should have been.

All of this said, I will agree that, aside from the changes to cataclysm, he is less team friendly.  I'll also agree that his skillset is more focused on CC now, at the cost of damage potential.

Regardless this thread is about Hydroid so I'm going to stop discussing Limbo.

My opinion on Hydroid's rework is that they just added some playability synergies, but didn't make him more effective.  He didn't really get any buffs imo, aside from better stats.  His visuals are better, his undertow is better, his ult might be better (need more AI testing, but the range is worse), and his first ability is a little better, but do these changes amount to anything?  I doubt it.  Hydroid is still only 4 forms of the same CC and thats it.  Add some aggro, some proc-based debuffing, some team buffing, make him more than the guy who just staggers and knocks down enemies.  Now his augments give him some of these things, and he has debateably the most good augments of any frame, but I want more innate variety in his kit.  Also his passive is still half-assed imo.  I would have liked one that has more synergy with the rest of his kit.

Now my opinion could change as time goes on, after all this was written within 24 hrs of the rework's launch.  But as I see it now, this will only make people stop saying that he is boring to play, but not stop saying that he is still one of the worst, if not the worst, frame in the game.

 

[morningstar999]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

hydroids puddle has that awesome killing potential that inaros desecrate has... it may take an hour, but it will get there, eventually

woot inaros rework is on its way, in a year

'it may take an hour but it will do it' isn't really efficient/good though is it?  :/

I could just shoot it and be done with at that point lol.

finally worked out a new build for Hyroid I like without having to put in a 4th forma in though XD

[-Defeater-]

15 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

HYDROID ISN'T A DAMAGE FRAME.  PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING THAT YOUR POWERS AREN'T KILLING THINGS.  

Just thought I'd leave a psa for the "i put 300% power  strength on him and couldn't nuke level 60 enemies" kind of knuckleheads out there.

Hydroid is a cc frame that enables melee stealth multipliers for his team. He's  not a nuker. Try thinking of him like vauban.

vauban keeps enemies in one spot and can lock down the entire map

Hydroid flings enemies everywhere, all over the map for WAY more energy and can keep everything in one spot by clicking them one by one....until he moves (super slowly) away and they end up getting up, forcing you to spend more energy pulling them back in.

so yea, vauban if vaubans abilities were cumbersome and impractical 

Edited August 10, 2017 by -Defeater-

[morningstar999]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

oberon has no range nerf, that oberon rework was sick, its just insane

 

i dont know why you are so angry ?

IKR Im so sad I dont have the prime yet. (mostly im just lazy when it comes to farming now)

but the Oberon rework made him usable again. they brought out his rework -people complained about stuff -they fixed and improved him yet again, I assume thats what will be happening with hyroid. (as in they'll take all on this thread into consideration)

 

[-Defeater-]

7 minutes ago, morningstar999 said:

He couldn't deal well with anything level 60-70 them much before the rework -but I just testing him now and I didn't have any problems myself. (not tested on gineer yet admittedly) as for cc issue, I generally used to out kill people 90% of the time in my hydroid before the re-work, and with more accurate tentacles I can't see it being harder. (and Im not sure how people struggle his whole thing is CC caster)

I am unsure if they still do finishing damage though (the 4th power)? I hope thats still the case.

--------------

anyway I'm really digging how well everything is synergised  and that you can cast stuff in undertow. I don't like that the tentacles now grip on to enemies for so long as you end up with one enemy at the end of a wave stuck on a tentacle and you its waving around so much you cant just shoot the damn thing but have to wait until the powers done. having it throw them about/away was much easier to deal with.

The fact that it shows you the area it'll cast in in a big bonus, and the Armour buff us a huge plus.

I also think undertow is still too weak in terms of damage per-second, I shouldn't need to sit as a puddle for a minute just to kill one thing for example. as other people have said even if it just stripped armour or something that would be a buff.

efficiency is a little bit high for the stacking/carrying enemies in the puddle and such personally. but then it always was...

And thats why no one played him. He couldnt deal with anything past lvl 50, our endgame atm is sorties. you cant balance a frame around the star chart trash mobs when theres higher level content to play. Tried doing todays defense with him. thought it was incredibly inefficient to try and defend anything crawling around as a puddle. know what i did? i left after a slow af round, switched to mesa, finished sortie in a reasonable time.

[Netzwerkfehler]

Healing on undertow augment should be stronger and start sooner. It takes forever till it starts.

Add hold mechanic to dash and let width scale with range mods. This is not a wave. It's a tiny something of water. The duration of the augment is too low. Maybe give it a buff that grants % damage reduction

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

49 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

So how come Hydroid can get such huge, well done buffs, while retaining what its core concept and feel was, as well as an *insane* armour buff....

While Limbo got *completely* changed, became generic and boring and can't even synergise its powers properly anymore?

this must be a joke dude, the new limbo is actually awesome

 

iam sure people that complain mostly just want to spam a warframe for its 4, and thats most of the complaints in reworks

 

but the idea behind reworks is to unlock the capability of all 4 powers

 

DE does a great job at the reworks, its just that when things change, people go crazy because the nuke is removed, mesa, mag, limbo, saryn ...

 

 

but i to was angry for no apparent reason on oberon and limbo

but then i stopped, and studied, and realized, DE is doing a great job

 

its just that people are angry regardless, because of the time and money they put into warframe

the devs just want to open up all of a warframes powers, to make all 4 viable, instead of just having some spam game with 4 4 4 4 

 

like harrow, people complain about him, but when you utilize all 4 of his abilities together, he is just dang awesome

Oberon, his powers are awesome now, they didnt much even mess with him, but made renewal fantastic

Limbo, it takes awhile to get used to how he is now, but he is literally just the same limbo, nothing seems changed

minus the fact he can now group toss enemies into the rift

and freeze enemies in his ultimate, and use melee to kill them easily, great on defense

surge, i still dont get, but it seems to work the same

 

my only real deal was with how badly mag was nerfed from wrecking only corpus, with 1 button regardless of level

to the now confusing thing, i dont use her anymore, but at least now she can combat all factions, instead of corpus only

 

 

I know people get angry at the littlest things, but if people took the time to think, and try out a warframe 100% instead of just for 1 gamestyle

maybe theyd see that every warframe has its own playstyle, not every single warframe has to instantly kill every thing with 1 button

its why i like zephyr and hydroid, they are what they are, like loki, and ivara... i got every frame

 

Every frame is good, but they all have their niches, thats just how it is, if you want a warframe the 1 shots the map

try Saryn, or ember, or nova, or even frost.

[Lascardo]

Tempest Barrage - Maybe add a focus on enemies instead of just random bombing, most of the time it doesn't even hit the stuff i aim at.

Tidal Surge - The distance you travel needs to scale with range instead of duration and the size of the wave needs to be increased, its like a little splash in a bathtub.

Under Tow -  Even with the ability to cast while in Under Tow, i will not use this ability. The only reason for it being that it's stationary. Changing it to a more "buff" like ability like Chroma's Elemental Ward would be way more fun.

Tentacle Swarm - Great charge mechanic but maybe add the ability to let the tentacles extend and grab enemies from afar, after the initial burst they are somewhat useless since they rarely get to grab enemies unless they run into the tentacles.

All in all really fun change and his CC became even better but other than CC he is good for nothing without augments.

 

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

i just hope that the warframe community doesnt just divulge into a ton of angry trolls

 

every patch, every bug fix, every rework is covered in so much hate

but not enough reasoning

[-Defeater-]

30 minutes ago, Sickle_Slayer said:

I don't understand where you can say he can't kill lvl 50 lancers. On numerous tests, and even with only 115% power strength he is killing the entire room full of Lancers in the simulacrum by only casting Tentacle Swarm once.

at 180 str (switched the build to allow for more duration), his 4 will knock a lancer up in the air putting it at half health. and when i say in the air, i mean unreasonably far into the air, to the point where you might have thought you killed it, but it,ll come back down after like 5 literal seconds. so at 180 str you can maybe kill a lancer if it falls  back down into the tentacles, which did not happen for me. he flew out of range, landed, got back up. 

Edit: and to be clear, this was a generic lancer. before i was talking about a corrupted lancer. this was a normal &#! green lancer.

Edited August 10, 2017 by -Defeater-

[-Temp0-]

Quote

The rework is good enough, he is in god tier now.

'god tier'

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

9 minutes ago, morningstar999 said:

'it may take an hour but it will do it' isn't really efficient/good though is it?  :/

I could just shoot it and be done with at that point lol.

finally worked out a new build for Hyroid I like without having to put in a 4th forma in though XD

my brother always used the puddle to afk, and heal the clan

the puddle is cool for suppressing the masses, as hydroid is a great cc 

but his mobility was awesome when you mod him right, i usually use pilfering swarm and the restorative undertow augments, and natural talen

primed flow + rejuvenation + vitality + quick thinking + rage and armored agility/steel fibre, power drift and intesify/streamline

he was never built for dps, but survivabiltiy and cc power control

[-Defeater-]

Just now, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

i just hope that the warframe community doesnt just divulge into a ton of angry trolls

 

every patch, every bug fix, every rework is covered in so much hate

but not enough reasoning

this was a QoL buff. they didnt make him better, just added synergies that dont exactly boost his effectiveness. hes more fun to play now, yea, its fun to suck people into his 3, but why? why waste time sucking things into his 3?  fun to play doesnt exactly mean good.