[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[FoxFX]

LINK TO AN OPTIONAL SUGGESTION TO HYDROID'S "HOLDING DOWN THE KEY" GIMMICK FOR TEMPEST BARRAGE AND TENTACLE SWARM

 

I wanted to seriously take about this "holding" ability gimmick. I feel that this feature would slow down the Hydroid and leave him vulnerable to attack. Thus, I wanted to draw attention to how Ash's Bladestorm functions and see if the same could be done with Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm.

[Prince-of-Space]

Another idea I had just now while reading your post - what if the Kraken was, like... Actually a summon? Rather than just poking his head up and saying hi before leaving.

What if you pressed 4 and the Kraken summons at your cursor location, with 10 tentacles surrounding him in a circle? Then in a combination mechanic of Oberon's Smite, Chroma's Effigy and Titania's Razerwings, the Kraken will lock onto the biggest, baddest target in the area, and slowly moves towards it while smacking and striking enemies?

[Rebel230]

1. You need to add a charge up indicator to the reticle or some place like other charge up weapons. With Tempest barrage you have no idea what is happening at all, and Tentacles are not much better.

2. You should be able to bullet jump directly out of undertow

3. The charge up tentacles is supposed to give 20 I have not seen more then 15, and I have seen it not go after nearby enemies also.

4. Please increase the movement speed while in undertow

5. ***I really think the corrosive proc should be built into tempest barrage without an augment. The ability does not even hit all the enemies in front of you and making us buy and use a mod spot on a hit or miss augment is not really cool at all. Or make using the augment make the ability actually hit everything within our range. Make the ability deal the corrosive proc innately please.***

ON a side note, can we get some more skins and helms for him.

I would really love to see a dev stream on the rework so I can understand better what you changed and your thinking. It seems still that you have to do builds for only part of his abilities.

The new visuals are excellent.

[Rebel230]

After more testing his tempest barrage ability is still really really poor. Like I said earlier, the corrosive proc should be innate and not require an augment, and it needs to be more consistent. Please really take a look at his #1.

Thank you

[Fazuul]

I've seen several suggestions for this already, so I'll just add my voice to it. 

After casting Tentacle Swarm from within Undertow, I'd love for the ability to drag the Tentacle Swarm around while still in Undertow.  The moment you exit it, you drop the swarm where it is and there it stays until a recast.

[MARALOHK]

I don't think the rework has hit the mark. The problem with Hydroid is he does not have a point, a reason why you would use him. You might say he has pilfering swarm, and that is a point, but an augment is not Hydroid. You could say he is a healer with curative undertow, but that is an augment. All the useful features of Hydroid are augments; he does not really have anything beside that. I might be saying this in an extremely negative way, but I do not want to be harsh.

 

I think there are two (or 3) apparent directions to go for giving Hydroid a reason to be played: you make him a crowd control frame, or make him a damage frame (or both).

If he is a crowd control frame, he needs to be less of a troll. If he is a damage frame, he needs to kill things faster than he does.

Tentacle Swarm grabs enemies and waves them back and forth, so that your allies have to try to get some target practice. Undertow absorbs in enemies and keeps allies from killing them, and doesn't kill the enemies very quickly either.

Fixes for crowd control would involve making the Tentacle Swarm hold things still (ideally strangling them) and Undertow would need some method for allies to be able to interact with the enemies in the puddle (heads poking out of the top?).

Fixes for damage could involve a number of things. Undertow could do more damage (you are drowning them with sentient water after all), increase damage per second by for more damage than it does, or have scaling damage. A mechanic could be added in which the damage of the puddle increases on ALL enemies contained in the puddle, per time spent as a puddle with enemies trapped inside. To balance that system, the damage would decrease would slope back to the base level over time without enemies in the puddle. Tentacle Swarm could have more damage, or scaling damage, or just have a buff to damage from Barrage on enemies effected by Tentacle Swarm.

General play fixes: Hydroid does have three other things I can think of that could use a bit of work outside of the main idea of "give him a point". The first is the speed of movement in Undertow. It is obvious that mobility is a huge factor in the beauty of Warframe, but Undertow moves at such a slow pace that a snail could leave Hydroid behind in its slime. It could be fixed by giving Undertow a faster base speed, or reducing the cost of Tidal Surge while in Undertow. The second is the fact that enemies in your puddle do not move with you. If you are in undertow and Tidal Surge through a group, the group winds up in you puddle, but anything you had in your puddle before the Surge gets left behind. If you can manage to move your puddle (at that less than a snails pace), you can also lose enemies from your puddle that way, eventually. Finally, enemies in Undertow make noises that should not be from enemies drowning underwater.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Nomayonnaiseinireland

[DarkOvion]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

but the idea behind reworks is to unlock the capability of all 4 powers

All 4 abilities on Limbo were in use before.

Constantly

With something like 750 hours in Limbo, I damn near wore out my 1, 2, 3 and 4 keys.

Now... we simply have no need to use Banish, apart from on rescue targets - especially being you have to leave the rift (which at higher levels, with your 65 armour and cast time, isn't a good idea) and it's not focused, it's AOE, meaning you can just hit 4, get more, and regain energy, so... mainly just use Cataclysm for everything.

2 works with that, so long as no one else is shooting, or you don't have a gun on your sentinel, then you have some control when you freeze time, but if anyone else is in the rift... not so much, so it only gets used... periodically and for defences.

In a classic style Duration build, you will do very little really, it's relegated to defence, spy, and maybe babysitting.

And in spy, you have to be even more carfeul because the dash rift walk can get you in trouble.

Otherwise, you kind of have to go into the CC Cataclysm spam area of things to be 'effective'.

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

Limbo, it takes awhile to get used to how he is now, but he is literally just the same limbo, nothing seems changed

minus the fact he can now group toss enemies into the rift

and freeze enemies in his ultimate, and use melee to kill them easily, great on defense

surge, i still dont get, but it seems to work the same

Everything changed. Rift Walk (2) got moved to Dash.

Banish (1) got switch from a focused single target change of plane that worked anywhere, to an AoE effect that only works on the plane its in.

Time Freeze (2) stops things moving within in it... but only so many and only up to so many projectiles... which isn't shown anywhere so can drop at any time without warning.

Rift Surge (3) used to increase damage dealt in the rift (base was 2 odd, mine usually sat around 3.7x damage) allowing you to keep up to the high levels far easier, especially in a 1 on 1 format that Limbo excelled at. It's now a pretty random thing that creates mini-cataclysms when things die (further reducing control) and also, only works on the plane you're in, not across the rift / normal barrier.

It's poorly implemented and confusing, so rather than Rift Surge being always on, it's never used

You can sort of replace this, to some degree with Time Freeze, but it takes FAR longer, and uses ammo - plus a LOT of weapons, you'll only get a few shots off before it locks out Time Freeze, and then you've got to recast, or just deal with it.

Cataclysm remains mainly unchanged... except it regenerates additional energy on death and scales damage, making it a fairly self sustaining crowd control spam ability, rather than the area control ability it was before.

Limbo went from being a very focused scalpel, able to deal with single hard targets quickly and efficiently, that dictated where and when combat occurred so long as your learned how to use him, superb solo or in group, a gentleman duelist unique among warframes...

To a warframe *like* other things. With no finesse, not precision, and very little control of anything. Good at being spammy and annoying, and not playing especially well with others, and while certainly powerful, good even, not the Limbo from before.

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

I know people get angry at the littlest things, but if people took the time to think, and try out a warframe 100% instead of just for 1 gamestyle

2500 hours in the game, 750 of it in Limbo, I've played and forma'd every frame, each a tool for a task with different strengths and weaknesses, Limbo has 2 Loadout Slots for 2 different styles of play alone.

I've even given it plenty of time and chances to form an opinion, playing and trying numerous builds over months.

This is how I know what Limbo did and does, and how Limbo was unique and different, and now is not.

Additionally, go back and look at the teams reactions during the period, and I voiced my concern then.

The Dev Team were significantly more excited about the colour of their socks, and how you're meant to pronounce the word 'niche', quickly dismissing any discussion of Limbo, after 1-2 sentences of apathy and dislike of the frame, or even just dismissing the questions about Limbo entirely with a look of exasperation or distate when asked about it.

 

Had they brought out a second Rift walker frame, that had the abilities of the new Limbo, I would have loved it, but instead they removed one of the most interesting aspects of the game to replace it with something the same as everything else in execution.

Edited August 11, 2017 by DarkOvion

[PsiWarp]

Please consider making Tempest Barrage's projectiles and explosions more transparent. Even before the Revisit I'm finding it really hard to see through all the translucent water effects, and I'm the one playing Hydroid. To be considerate to my teammates I often go for black energy color, but my fashion frame takes a huge hit because of that.

The screen shake and constant barrage impact noises also make it a bit nauseating after a while, which feels bad because Hydroid needs to constantly lay down area denial.

[FoxFX]

1 hour ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Nah. None of this is needed, though they do need to look at how the game registers inputs for Tempest Barrage as is, given that the game does seem to pick up inputs if you press-release-press to charge up another cast of Barrage. Dunno if the same happens with Tentacles.

I do not mean to make both Tempest Barrage or Tentacle Swarm to function exactly like Ash's Bladestorm, but this is merely a side suggestion if the majority of players feel the "Holding" gimmick of Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm feels the same as using Melee Charge Attacks with most melee weapons.

[Chroia]

6 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey Maliwan! 

Are the pickups simply getting in the way of you clicking on them? Or is there another underlying issue possibly? 

Well FWIW, vacuumed pickups will block your casting of his 1 and 4, making you cast them on top of your location.

[AxelzWF]

Did not expect to see this rework today, but was super excited when I heard about it, so I rushed on to see what skills were replaced, removed, or changed. I go to my arsenal, Equip > Hydroid > Abilities and what do I see? I was in awe, nothing was changed, all the names are the same and the descriptions are similar to the old ones. I sincerely thought I had missed something, or that the update wasn't truly out yet. Upon reading the notes, I took him out and tried him for a little bit. Keep in mind I was never a Hydroid fan, but I didn't hate him either, I usually used him as a joke frame for fun because I can't bring myself to take him seriously, but nevertheless, here are my conclusions:

-His 1: Almost the exact same, despite providing some form of CC I would never touch it without its augment. The charge thing just makes me wonder why it's even there.

-His 2: Great that it pushes enemies back now, it has a good potential to shove enemies into places you want them, or shove them out of places you don't. Still wouldn't use it for movement or damage but a reliable CC is never bad.

-His 3: This is it, basically the one skill that really got something, and I can say without a doubt that I am underwhelmed. Going into this rework I was hoping that this skill would just be gone when I logged in, but instead it became the center of attention. You can cast while in it, great but not special besides being invulnerable while you cast. Increasing damage over time, fine, but it still take so much longer than just shooting or using another damaging ability, and the increasing damage resets if the enemies leave the pool. And the worst offender, the movement. Did it need movement? Yes. Is this what it needed? Nope. The wave only goes half as far in puddle form, making it incredibly costly for the distance, the base movement speed is so slow I'd rather leave the puddle to take 2 steps and then go in again, and worst of all is that there is no reason to even need the movement now that enemies can just be pulled into it.

-His 4: I've never been a fan of this ability. If I go Helene solo or with a friend, I'll take Hydroid and spam this to kill things for the ridiculousness of it all. Look we should all know the truth, if you don't have pilfering swarm on this thing then it's not worth using. The biggest problem with the tentacles is that they are a nuisance, they just make a mess of the enemies with no rhyme or reason. This has not been changed at all. The graphics are sweet, the kraken head looks on point even if it does nothing, it still has a huge area , BUT, it still just tosses enemies around.

Possible Improvements Based On My Experience: I don't want DE to sink all their time into Hydroid, I don't think anyone wants that, but he needs something that makes him cool and not a puddle on the floor.

-His 1 needs more consistency, drop the charge gimmick.

-His 2 and 3 need to be combined as others have said, or greatly reduce all the energy costs with them, or just replace these abilities.

-His 4 at least needs to grab enemies and hold them still, or have the tentacles chase enemies. Again the whole hold to charge thing feels a little out of place.

Possible Ideas I've Had: 

-For a new 2nd or 3rd ability: A shark summon. This pirate needs some sweet shark action in his kit, if these abilities get combined or one gets removed, I think he should be able to summon a shark that swims around him and does some AoE like WoF, but in a smaller radius that moves around.

-Make his puddle and tentacles work together. Make his 4 pull ever enemy it grabs into his puddle or let bullets shot into his puddle damage enemies that are caught in it.

Conclusion: It's more of a balance than a rework. Synergies are a cool thought, but don't fix his problems. Focus is on his puddle a little too much in my opinion when it should have been about making him cool and useful to the team. He's better than before, but I think we can expect to see a series of changes like we did with Oberon.

[SaltiestVinegar]

As of now, my only gripe about Hydroid is the unreliability of his first and fourth abilities.

Tempest Barrage, is still heavily rng based and not consistent on where it hits. What I would like to see is a form of targeting system, ex: wherever the player is aiming with their reticle, the ability will target that specific spot, with a charged mechanic to increase the radius of the barrage. The dmg of the ability as of now is fine.

Tidal Surge is perfectly fine where it is, though I would like the ability to cancel it without using Undertow in conjunction.

Undertow is definitely the better of the abilities and has been greatly improved from a niche ability. I have no real complaints of it.

Tentacle Swarm still feels clunky to use. The visuals themselves are a very welcome addition, however the dmg scaling of the tentacles against higher level enemies, could use a buff as well as a more concise way where the tentacles attack enemies. Perhaps the Kraken itself can move toward enemies, albeit slowly, to aid in the reliability of the tentacles reaching targets?

Overall, Hydroid is definitely more fun to play, but I feel that the problems hes had in the past are still there and hinders long term play ability. 

[Lorienzo]

8 hours ago, Lord_Datastorm said:

yes and the casting time is slower when you do it, you would need natural talent now to get the casting time to normal so you don't die. Also it had more range before the nerf.

 

Whaaaat I didn't see any difference in Natural Talent equipped. Too slow either way. May be just me.

[Romanji]

I just had some thoughts, some imaginations, some machinations, some dreams about hydroid revisited and 

 

1. The barrage doesn't have to be made of water, but if it does you could make it auto target enemies that enter an area instead of being seemingly random at best.  If a charge system is so desired for him, he could increase the number of "water" or 'explosive" shells fired based on time spent charging

2.a What if instead of a small tidal wave in a singular direction, which is like a rhino charge knock off. Perhaps if  Hydroid's charge system is so desired he could have a quick tidal wave that originates from his position and goes outwards this would be called Low Tide and does AoE damage while pushing the enemy away from him.

2.b.  When he charges the tidal wave up instead it originates from a distance based on charge time and drags the enemy towards him and smashes them together

3.Undertow's nice and the rework for it is nice, however you should be allowed to modify it's element by the fire of teammates or himself. And if DE has such an appreciation for the charge system, could make it so tapping undertow plants the puddle on the ground and charging it causes him to dive into it. Allowing for some freedom while controlling the room.

4. Hydroid assumes his water elemental form surrounding himself in a swirling torrent of fridgid salt water absorbing the elemental hazards around him and nullifying them as he thrashes his salty tentacles grabbing and crushing enemies around him.  (Charging it causes him to assume the form) (tapping 4 just causes him to conjure a small one that thrashes about on it's own) 

How's that sound? 

or if they want to visit the more pirate-y aspects of Hydroid

1.  He could fire what ranges from a sharp burst of water resembling the firing of a gun, to the firing of a blunderbuss to cannon fire based on charge time. Tapping it to get the gunfire would be puncture damage, holding down for a moment to reach a blunderbuss would be impact damage. Holding down for the max duration to get the Cannon ball would be blast damage and have max effective range but least damage. The difference in damage wouldn't be immense though. 

2. Hydroid calls upon his etheral ship on a wave of briney waters to collide with the enemy moving forward until it collides with a surface or reaches a set distance and if he charges it, he holds it still for himself and teammates to hop aboard. 

3. Undertow, no idea what to rename it to, but it is used as a farm aid to mug and plunder the loot from any enemy trapped and killed within. If you tap it, enemies are stuck knee deep, cannot move and it's more like a snare/stun than it's current usage. if he holds it down it extends the briney depths trapping those within a swirly salty death as they're mercilously pickpocketed and their items deposited on the surface.  High chance of dropping credits

4. Conjures his flagship (insert name, I am not creative) to fire automated bursts of cannon blasts or . . . Water blasts? from it's location. It draws aggro, has a Health value and when you hold down your ultimate it travels to your new position. tapping it once more will de-summon it. 

 

Would any of that sound interesting? or viable? or fun?

Edited August 11, 2017 by Romanji

[HonorGuard2074]

Good changes but could you make the charged version of his 4th ablity give more than 15 spawned bits, maybe 20-25? (we spend 2x as much for mainly 1.5x the use,why not give us 2x-2.5x)

otherwise everything seems better in everyway

[(PSN)R1t_Kae]

Tidal surge and undertow should be one ability and his 3 could be a buffer or debuffer

 

[Urlan]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

infinite range took to long, if thats the only minus, its not a big one

trinity used to have infinite range on her ult also

That is true, and losing it was considered a nerf with Trinity as I recall.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

Just now, Urlan said:

That is true, and losing it was considered a nerf with Trinity as I recall.

mesa still gets an infinite range with her shootin gallery

 

when are they gonna rework mesa so she isnt so meh

[Azimbee]

After extensive testing of Hydroid I'm back.

I don't know if I'm just having an off day, or not, but I didn't have fun trying out hydroid's changes. Everything is too clunky and throws enemies around for cc that doesn't actually assist in killing anything.

Part of the reason why is because all the core problems with each of his abilities are still there. However, according to the notes - the goal was to add more synergy.

The synergy and flow is there. So congrats. You accomplished what was set out to be done. I'm just a little dissappointed that - that was all that was accomplished. I was expecting something more hard hitting than this. I'm optimistic, however, that it's not over yet.

Edited August 11, 2017 by TheLegendTamer

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

The Hydroid rework has taken off today and so far, feedback has been (less) finicky opposed to the ones before him, since we didn't really know what we were getting ourselves into, considering there hasn't been much info we've gotten beforehand.

Overall, the rework in every since of the word is, ok.

Granted, he doesn't have the same issues as most other frames going in, being his kit is way less convoluted than the ladder, there wasn't really a negative direction his kit could've taken since most of the community, those who've played him and those who haven't, were on the same page. They didn't want his abilities to feel isolated and they wanted them to be more, cohesive.

The rework for the most part, fixed some of the glaring issues his kit had, but, there are a few things missing...

I wanted to get as much information on his rework before posting anything, as to not make a D bag of myself, so since it's come out I've been " studying" if you can even call it that, the upsides and downsides of this new synergistic Hydroid, although a day's worth of experimenting isn't all that's needed, but maybe this thread can start something in that direction.

First and foremost, the rework was nice and much needed, but a few things were left unchanged and I'm curious as to why...

His passive is still the same. The ability to summon more tentacles is a moderate passive, nothing groundbreaking, but it gives him something while meleeing, but I feel the old passive is out of place with this rework, hear me out...

From what I've realized from viewing his rework in action, is that we want to utilize his second and third, seeing as they have the most seamless synergy of the three ( actually, they all kind of tie in into his three, but I'll get to that later ), so we want to use these as much as possible, right. Well, his passive kind of prevents that. His puddle in tandem with his second, makes him a somewhat nigh invulnerable undersea threat, with the capability of doing harm, without ever being in danger. An entity whose enemies will never be able to faze although being right in front of him is an incredible thematic. But that's completely shot out of the water the moment he's no longer in his liquid state. Why not have him carry that same theme in his passive.

I can't really remember who thought of this, but I read on a thread a long time ago, that Hydroids passive, was him essentially staying "wet" after using his abilities, becoming a transparent form of himself, and in this form, being afflicted with a status, would simply be stored and using any of his abilities, the water from his abilities would become "polluted", and attacking those around him, will have that status wash over them. Using his abilities consecutively will apply a stacking mechanic, increasing status immunity and knockdown effects. Also, he's unable to set off alarms while in this state. I always preferred that passives were more reactive in a sense, so that's actually perfect.

Next, his first should really have its augment incorporated in the ability. The rework made it extremely good, but the benefits of having the corrosive proc innate, would excel in the long run. You can change the augment to it having an increased status chance with the status Hydroid is infected with in his Liquid state.

Last but not least, his ultimate.

When you guys had mentioned that his tentacles would seek out enemies, I kind of figured that giant oceanic beast would search out the enemies. I'm ok with what we got though. What would make it even better, while giving it a essence of mobility, allow the tentacles to do the searching. Basically, as soon as an enemy dies at the hands of the tentacles, let them dive back into the depths, then resurface after finding another victim. This will give them way more range ( as if they even need it, the charge makes it insane ), allowing them to travel throughout the map, taking advantage of that duration. This is honestly just me nitpicking, so this actually happening is the lowest on my list.

Now that I've mentioned some hopeful additions, time to address the slow and insatiable elephant in the room...

His charge time for his abilities, especially his fourth are too long.

He also consumes way too much energy. Maybe to combat this, give him energy regeneration while in the maximum stacks of his Liquid state.

This is another minor thing, but earlier I mentioned how all of his kit is revolved around his third, albeit, a much better third, they seem to be only getting benefits if used alongside his puddle power. Maybe something he can use his first with his fourth to get something, this is probably just me with wishful thinking, just thought I put it out there.

The rework is good, but I feel like it can be solid with a few more touches. Enjoy the rest of your day.

[FelanGrey]

Well, Hydroid Revisited is fun nerf.

He has received some Shield and Armor buff, but it won't make him much more survival than he was before, because Armor doesn't affect Shields. May be, in the future, this would change. So, it's nice.

Tempest Barrage get charge ability and received 2x time and damage but need for this buff 2x more energy and more time to cast it. And can be cast while in Undertow and will now hit enemies submerged in Undertow. Can't say that it's bad because it's only first ability and get some synergy that wouldn't make it or Undertow more effective (I haven't seen that someone use it in the battle and this change does not make it worth to spend energy without augment). Also it need some indicator for charge progress like Harrow have or like charge guns.

For Tidal Surge good and fun that it pull enemies along for the ride but it doesn't do much damage to them. Also get more synergy with Undertow that make it much worse. With Undertow it's speed  and distance is halved and you have to spend full energy cost to use it while using Undertow and you won't get any other benefits than move a little this puddle. So why should I use it with Undertow?
 

Undertow  is now more fun and interactive (I like it, who love AFC in puddle won't like it) and damage per second, increasing every second enemies are submerged. But with fun, damage and useless synergy(Opportunity to use other abilities while you sitting in puddle) it received nerf of range, if the grab range is counted from the center of the puddle (before it had 18m puddle size, now - 15m grab range and you have to grab one by one enemy to your 4m puddle) and huge NEED for energy because you'll need 2 energy per second to stay in pool, 5 energy per target to grab them, to move you'll spend even more energy, Energy Leech Eximus still will drain energy when you're in the pool and Energy Siphone or other energy restoring effects are deactivated while Undertow is channeled. Only one thing in this is good - becoming invulnerable to all forms of damage and untargetable by enemies(as it was before).

Tentacle Swarm like Tempest Barrage can be charged. Uncharged-charged: 50-100 energy, 10-20 tentacles, 5-10m range, doesn't effect on damage and duration. Before we had: 100 energy, 12 tentacles, 20m range, damage and duration are the same. This change doesn't make this ability much better, because we need spend more time to charge and get same damage, duration, energy cost, less range (but for me it visually the same) and more tentacles. Like Tempest Barrage it need some indicator for charge progress. Synergy with Undertow: if you'll cast Tentacle Swarm while enemies are submerged, they wouldn't get damage from tentacles, but if you'll cast Tentacle Swarm and cancel Undertow, enemies would recive double damage from tentacles. This would be great if for charge, Undertow you haven't spend so much energy and time to cast.
 

The best part of it all - Visual improvement of abilities.

So this changes are more nerf then buff, because you need more time to cast and spend energy to have new benefits, or you'll have less effective result than you have before rework for the most useable abilities (Undertow and Tentacle Swarm).

To make him better:

• Create indicator for charge progress of Tentacle Swarm and Tempest Barrage.
• Reduce animation/charge time.
• Look again about energy cost or for other benefits of Tidal Surge while Undertow is channeled.
• Would be good, if we could see how many enemies submerged in Undertow.
• Damage from tentacles scales based on enemy level that they had grab to make him more demand at higher levels.

Edited August 11, 2017 by FelanGrey

[RickyZen]

and somehow in the patch note, Hydroid is Female Warframe..
check the patch note, it will say "She" instead of "He"...

and Hydroid looks better now..

[babywrath]

Played the rework. Matched the dps, in hydroid's favor, vs inaros with lenz. Dunno what that can imply but yeah.

• The rework is without a doubt better than previous hydroid.
• Game play is the same as previous hydroid except, instead of spamming Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm then standing there, we can now cast and keep Undertow then spam holding Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm. I notice that because of this change time now flies much faster. 
• No change in dynamic capabilities other than very fast cancel of undertow. Moving while in undertow is useless and using Tidal Surge while in Undertow even more so.
• Still not viable for sorties and more intense/dynamic gameplay.
• Hes definitely more fun for low level games now but apart from resource farming, he is not a frame you go to to get the job done. 
• Overall: I didn't like previous hydroid, so i don't like this one either. I can only wish that it would have been treated the same as Oberon rework but no such luck.

Concern regarding this rework though. Since it is quite obvious that standing and spamming 1 and 4 is very much encouraged, will this trigger afk? 

What i'd like changed.

• Larger base range for undertow to make it usable without overextended. 
• Larger base energy because the new synergy is too taxing. It was fine when spamming 1 and 4 were the useful skills but now all four can mesh. 
• Tempest Barrage is perfect in my opinion because its the first skill. Its not supposed to be OP but rather adds flavor like ember and frost first skill. 
• Tidal Surge needs to double the speed while maintaining the distance traveled. 
• Undertow movement speed is still at 50% of base move speed but now is affected by power strength, thereby potentially increasing movement speed if, lets say, he is built for 200+% power strength. Also Tidal Surge movement speed should not be reduced while in Undertow because hes already water so whats the big deal? Imagine how fun it would be to collect enemies in Undertow, then spamming Tidal Surge to grab them, then casting Tempest Barrage and Tentacle Swarm. So much more dynamic and a completely new way to play him that no other warframe has. Not even nidus or mag is that dynamic. Lastly, when Tentacle Swarm and Tempest Barrage is cast while in Undertow, move them both along with the ride. 
• Tentacle Swarm tentacles can dive and pop up to a new location within the modded range to target closest reachable enemies. Priority goes to enemies who have not been grabbed yet. Ensures that every enemy within the aoe has an even number of tentacles attacking. This would mean it is now capable of scaling damage against individual enemies to promote thinning the herd rather than staring at the ceiling. Also make the tentacle slam affect more than one enemy ("dunno if this is currently implemented"). This extends the scalability to multiple enemies within close proximity of each other. This way the damage and the attack speed do not need to be increased. Lastly, please make the tentacles do corrosive damage rather than magnetic. It makes sense that water corrodes armor no? Or even viral or toxin because gooey slimy tentacles. 

[Flackenstien]

First, let's just say that I love this rework.  

Here is my feedback no what could be improved or added:   
General:  
● Due to the nature of the rework, Hydroid has now become rather Energy-hungry.. or thirsty? I have some suggestions to help with this in the sections below.     
 
TEMPEST BARRAGE  
● The new Ability Charge mechanic is definitely helpful, especially with the Duration, but this Ability still has a hiccup. It's hindered too much by the environment, often getting caught on set pieces or cast from outside of the map, like in the tunnels on Uranus. Basically, give it some level of environmental Punch Through.  

TIDAL SURGE  
● Being able to use it into and from within Undertow is what I've wanted for a while, really happy with this change.  
● I would love it if we could control Tidal Surge, adding to the Crowd Control and Mobility aspects. Would be really fun to use from the air with this change!  

UNDERTOW 
● The fact that we can now pull enemies into the puddle from a distance is really awesome!  
● We can now move the puddle, but I feel that it's a bit too slow.. almost unnoticeable in my playtime. I'd like to see the speed increased, even if just a bit, without further increasing the Energy drained.  
● An additional thing, to help with Hydroids Energy consumption issues; maybe Abilities cast from Undertow could have their cost reduced? Or atleast just Tidal Surge, as that's the real way to move Undertow around. Hydroid is really designed to use his Abilities in quick succession.  

TENTACLE SWARM  
● The Ability seems more reliable now, especially since we can see where we aim it, due to the new Ability Charge mechanic.  
● The new visual is very cool, but I feel it's too fleeting. It would be awesome if the kraken stuck its head out a bit more, and stayed around for longer. It's amusing that we can put it on the ceiling and walls though.  

If I could add anything to Hydroid:    
● Hydroid's Abilities now leave water on the ground, temporarily (automatically despawns if Hydroid goes too far). If enough water builds up, there becomes a chance that the kraken can surface in that water. It will have a radial Energy restore over time for your squad, and can even spawn a few Tentacles randomly. Maybe distract foes like a decoy? These effects could apply to the kraken during Tentacle swarm aswell.  
● Hydroid now has +15% movement speed in Sharkwing.  
● Hydroid slowly regens Energy in water? If we can't get the kraken as a familiar, then this seems reasonable. Many tilesets have water; the Void, Earth, Mars, Uranus, and Plains of Eidolon atleast. Puddle would be exempt from this regen, ofcourse.  

Edited August 11, 2017 by Flackenstien

[kamimegurine]

I Love Hydroid, but this rework doesn't look like a rework at all... just a buff.
You should change the place of the abilities and try some new ones...
I have some Ideas for an energy support oriented Hydroid.

Passive:

Spoiler

 

A)When ever hydroid dies he turns into a puddle drowning enemies, leeching their hp (basically inaros but with water).
*This will take the troll puddle into a better spot where no one will attemp to troll with it, and it will be really usefull.
or
B) Whenever Hydroid or Allies standon top of his water they will gain energy/second.

1st Ability:

Spoiler

Hydroid summons heavy rain in a circle area arround him. The heavy rain will flood the area and leave a thin puddle that will slow enemies that runs through it (Like frost ice wave augment).

*The puddle left by this ability will have interactions with the other abilities, and it will take away the RNG of the actual rain and give it consitent CC.

2nd Ability:

Spoiler

It stays the way it is right now, but add the effect that It will leave a trail of water that has the same slow effect of the 1st ability.
*His 1st is a circle area and the 2nd is a linear path.

3rd Ability:

Spoiler

Hydroid will Prision enemies inside water bubbles with a circular area. making them levitate and unable to move, When ever the enemies takes damage the bubble will pop releasing a small wave that will restore energy if it reaches an ally while also creating a small puddle of water bellow the enemy.

*This will make him a requested frame for high lv missions, and an alternative to Trinity, which many players find boring.

4th Ability

Spoiler

Turns Hydroid into a deadly kraken that can move with in hydroids water (The one left by his abilities) Capturing nearby enemies lifting them and choking them, exposing their heads and making them take aditional head damage. (use the new kraken that is live for the reworked ability looks cool)  While in this form hydroid can't take any form of damage and can't be targeted.

*This will make use of all other abilities creating sinergy between passive and active abilities, will add really nice CC, bonus for your team mates and making the player feel really good 'cause who doesn't want to be a kraken right? this will make you to don't be bother by being not capable of using your weapons for the duration and it wil be a fusion between the actual puddle and the tentacle ability.

This will make Hydroid in my opinion viable for every single mission you want to take him, and no one will be telling you troll anymore, People in the recruiting chat may type things like " LF EV tryn or Hydroid" taking away the must have of the tryn warframe in every single high lv mission team.
You can add the numbers for damage, energy restoration, energy cost and all that balance stuff.

Edited August 11, 2017 by kamimegurine