[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[Flackenstien]

What DE did is a rework, what you're asking for is a new frame.

[Shiichibukai]

Looks like a tweak, rather then a rework to me. Saryn was a rework. Mag was a rework. This? No. Just a bandaid fix for a still lackluster frame.

[leadwolf1]

DE everyone has suggestions, he needs work to be viable in mid and high gaming. I do believe this is your goal. when you only had the void being the hardest thing and running the defense and survivals for the prime parts and drops, he still was not used to get to rotation c, back in the day. so, by all means take some ideas and make him playable at least up to level 70ish so you could use in sortie 2nd phase in some cases. and then  if skills are good be able to take into end sortie of level 100. he can not be downed so easy in the first 5 min of the survival in the void. Look at the armor issue why , because the armored enemies are very hard to kill not 1 shot and yet valker with all that armor is killed easy without using 4th ability hysteria. so why so much difference. this game is called warframe not shooter 5000. some emphasis needs to be put on warframes and surviving and killing using them not so much on shoot them before you get shot and killed and by the way their armor is much better than even your best warframe. Armor should scale to give frames a fighting chance , ONLY when needed. Look nova prime has molecular prime and it covers all enemies in the radius that it travels making you be able to move faster and use weapons and kill and still have a chance of being killed but hydroid has nothing oberon has the ability to buff armor and regen health as well as confuse  then you have a good chance of killing enemy and if too high use the 4th and knock off balance and reduce health to then keep shooting and killing. trinity is a great all around support frame for team, nyx chaos , confusing enemies, frost being able to freeze even the highest enemy giving tome to kill and also slow a certain length of time. now with limbo rework being able to put the enemies in stasus in the void and melee all is great when used properly,  I could keep going but you get the idea, in what ever you do give him an out to play high end content. Look no matter what we say you will do what ever you decide to so give it some real hard thought and Please rework some more.

[Kurambik]

I'm currently out of town so I am speaking from the patch notes: no new passive?

I'll be honest, his current passive was underwhelming (hopefully it received an AI change like his 4th and maybe scale on melee mods and combo counter?)

If no, what do people think about this

PLUNDERER

Hydroid gains +40% more from energy, health and ammo pickups while him and allies within affinity range also gain +10% resource pickups for 20sec after each ability cast

(Values are placeholder)

This way maybe one can mitigate the "energy crisis" everyone seems to be talking about plus what is a pirate without plundering? :P Else the tentacle can have a guaranteed energy and health orb drop

Edited August 11, 2017 by Kurambik

[Tau.]

Hydroid was actually the frame that by-looks alone piqued my curiosity enough to look at this game some two years ago. 

Did some playing around with these changes. Impressions and subsequent thoughts were as follows: 

Spoiler

 

1. Tempest Barrage:

-Could still use faster cast-to-payoff time. Consider letting the first few volleys actively target enemies or where you aim your reticule, and then decay to the more chaotic current nature after that.

-Low duration is an issue here - hard to feel like you can count on an ability for anything if it can take 4 of its base 5 second duration before it hits anything you need it to. Especially if that's numerous seconds you're waiting for just a knockdown.

-One-handed action allowing it to be used while reloading is a great touch, thank you and please keep this no matter what. This small feature is a big improvement.

 

2. Tidal Surge:

-Aside from movement in Undertow, this ability still feels pointless. It's fine if not every ability is a winner, but here's a handful of ideas on how it could be spiced up a little: 

-1 Lower the energy cost, and tweak the pathing/movement to not have it wedge you into every corner/mapoff possible; stop a bit short of those detrimental destinations. In fact, allowing us to change the trajectory of it with our reticule during the ability would probably help a lot. 

-2 For synergy purposes, you could have it leave a water trail aoe that (enemies slip on and fall when moving over, comparable to Vauban's Twipwire trap) empowers nearby Tentacles and Tempest Barrage shots for the Surge's damage value. 

-3 Give it a wide-range Vacuum function. Could be a boon to pet lovers. 

 

3. Undertow:

-Conceptually being able to actually move and cast from it now is great. It's just that its drown function still has an abysmal time-to-kill. On paper it's understandable given that it's an invulnerable state, but there's still the fast-paced nature of the game to factor in. Safely drowning a couple cannon-fodders sounds fine at first, but you're not doing anything against the far greater number of enemies that spawn in that same time. 

-Allow the drown damage to be augmented by your Tempest Barrage and Tentacles. Allow all damage dealt by those abilities to add each instance of their damage to enemies' drown progression. IE: Something's drowning for 25, tentacle slaps it for 200, its progress is upped to 225 and the next tick increases it to 250 from Undertow, another subsequent tentacle slap piles on another 200 for 450 progression, Undertow thus ticks for 475, and so on. Makes sense for a space Kraken incarnation to pull already-submerged victims to their watery graves much faster. 

-Curative Undertow augment's healing scaling is still laughable. Not even remotely worthwhile, objectively. It still heals pitiful amounts over way too long. (It currently still heals for a percentage of frames' BASE hp values, ignoring what they're actually put up to by Vitality and Vigor mods) Fix it to mechanically -do- what it -says- it's supposed to do. Full-on 30% of max hp per 1.5 seconds. That's 20%/sec. 

 

4. The big one itself, Tentacle Swarm:

-Consider renaming it to Kraken :D

-Damage scaling is still an issue. Couple thoughts on the matter.

-1 One-tentacle-per-enemy limitation still makes the ability's time-to-kill very unrewarding and hopeless in the scaling aspect against higher level enemies. To somewhat help this, consider letting tentacles not block one another from targeting enemies - give them free reign to slap as they will! If a Kraken's got something in one tentacle, it should be laughably easy to make shorter work of it if puts its remaining appendages to work. 

-2 Another idea was to turn it into something akin to World On Fire, but with the Tentacles spontaneously erupting all around instead of fire, with greater ability damage scaling than currently. Possibly gaining extra scaling benefit from any explosive weapons wielded because pirate, cannons, yarr, and stuff. 

-3 Have the Tentacles' flail and strangle damage compound like Undertow. And/or allow their damage to be augmented further by nearby Tempest Barrages, Tidal Surge trails, and Undertow. 

-4 You could have a portion of the tentacles' damage scale with enemies' hp, and compound with time. Said hp scaling rate could be augmented with ability synergies. If targets being also affected by Undertow increase this compounding scaling rate, that's incentive to use Tidal Surge to move around the map to actively gobble enemies up. Instead of the usual sit-back-and-cast playstyle, you'd be actively dragging enemies to the depths. 

 

Pilfering Swarm and the Tentacle-on-ground-slam pieces feel a little standalone/gimmicky. 

-Turn the Pilfering Swarm augment mod into something like Savage Swarm, Vicious Swarm, or the likes that grant the ability one or more of the damage compounding mechanics mentioned previously. 

-Grant Hydroid a loot-booster passive for containers (plus a built-in Master Thief ability to unlock locked lockers, yarr) and enemies killed by his abilities. 

-Consider letting him passively add reload speed and 1m punchthrough to shotgun secondary weapons (if not shotguns and cannon-like weapons as a whole). (count Euphona Prime in this!) Because pirates love their cannons. 

-The bonus tentacle passive? I'm not attached to it. Would be nice if it was something more refined, like if it procced on successful equipped melee combos (other than the spam combo) and ground finishers to fit more smoothly into gameplay, not just a chance on ground slams. But honestly I wouldn't miss it.

 

 

 

-----

Probably the simplest and most coherent takeaway build in my humble opinion: 

Tempest Barrage: auto-enemy lock-on for first 2-3 volleys.

Tidal Surge: Wide-area Vacuum effect and leaves semi-cc-value water trails that increase the damage of all Tempest Barrage shots whose splash radii touch it.

Undertow: Drown damage progression augmented heavily by Tentacle Swarm.

Tentacle Swarm: A portion of tentacle damage scales with enemy hp, the scaling can be augmented with power strength and ability synergies, like if they're caught in Undertow.

Passive: Passive loot-boost (50% or so?) on containers, lockers, and enemies slain. +40-50% chance to unlock locked lockers.

-----

 

 

His kit's previous problems could all be boiled down to the following: slow, random, unreliable, impotent. This current state is a nice start in that it's a start at all, but it's still only scratching the surface of the quad-fecta of bad he had going. As he is I still honestly wouldn't take him into any mission ever, but here's to hoping the final product will be as big of a success story as Oberon (who actually made it into my top 4 after final tweaks).

Edited August 11, 2017 by SpaceBad
Spacing to make it easier to look at. Heh, spacing. Space jokes. ...I'll see myself out.

[owendawgx]

Look, the visual is nice and all, but having it do absolutely nothing is a huge disappointment for me and pretty much everyone else who I've talked to or seen talk about it.

In all honestly it just feels like a tease that was put in to make people excited when the teaser image was released and the first time they use it, which is cool, but to have an element that special just . . . sit there? it's a little bit painful.

Not to mention letting the Kraken -or whatever it is- actually do something could give Hydroid a legitimate draw aside from being a pirate or being the 4th member of a loot farming party. For those that like being a pirate it doesn't matter what you do to him, they'll probably still use Hydroid, for everyone else, he needs something a little more . . . exciting. Or to suddenly be really viable but that doesn't really seem to be happening with this rework. No offense intended, but let's just make sure nobody's pretending that he has any more of a place outside of loot farms or AFK defending an intercept point in a full squad, at least no more than he did before.

Though I will say that the updated ability effects are absolutely stunning and whoever worked on those did an outstanding job, just wanted to make sure that got in there somewhere.

 

[Fanzschnabs]

2 things in this post, the puddle, and the kraken :

Concerning the puddle, moving with the "wave" while in puddle form still leave enemies behind, I thought it should have been hauling them around, filling the pool more and more, for that extended energy cost and reduced movement range, for you to group them and have a pack to shoot at.

Is it possible to fix it so ?

 

Concerning the 4th skill, a.k.a "release the kraken" :

The skill itself allow some form of control over the enemies as well as Damage over Time, with a double damage on 1st hit,

All of this is good, since it's not a "press 4 to win" type of skill, but people often find themselves annoyed by it when they try to kill those tentacle'd enemies, flailing around wildly, making it difficult to finish them if the weapon has "incompatible" properties.

To be exact, the weapon has to be either AOE, so you just aim for the ground next to them, OR, hitscan (since non hitscan have a delay before hitting, and the tentacle movement isn't exactly predictable) AND more of a "magnum" than a "repeater" type of weapon ( "low fire rate with high dmg" > "high fire rate with low damage", since you'd have to track the target during the tentacle movement to be as effective, opposed to landing a few solid shots with a magnum)

This is actually going against build diversity, and can seriously hinder teamplay, which, in a co-op game, should be promoted.

My suggestion on this is pretty simple, and involve only minor adjustments in term of coding, and a few hours of work for animators as talented as DE's.

The tentacles should emerge, seek a target (or targets if close enough), grab them, smash them into the ground (nothing changed yet),

but then, Coil around the targets and immobilize them, and periodically "constrict" the targets to deal each tick of DoT. (which would explain why the 1st hit is stronger, then it's a DoT)

I'm not exactly sure how many target a single tentacle can hold, as I've already seen some tentacle having a bunch of grineers stuck to it like an anti-fly ribbon, but you may consider giving each tentacle the opportunity to catch more enemies getting in range every 2-3 seconds.

This solution would allow for players to have still targets, and any target killed while tentacle'd would of course mean the tentacle is free to hunt again. (aka : hydroid won't have to recast a new 40 seconds long tentacle swarm, only to catch that single -hard to kill- leech eximus, while making it nearly impossible to kill for that duration...). Also, it would work best with the Pilfering swarm augment, since a coiled enemy means he'll be looting and is ready to be killed.

On a side note, since it's all about synergies, shouldn't a puddle-casted tentacle swarm's goal be to "send" the enemies it catches flying toward the pool ?

(Like, instead of slamming, coiling and DoTing, they would slam and throw it toward the puddle, and it's your call what you do next, be it staying in puddle-form to round them all, or go free and have the tentacles filling the general vicinity of your last known puddle location with enemies, which would be useful to force enemies out of covers, instead of having them sustaining DoTs in some remote places, sometime taking "ages" to finish the enemies)

Alternatively, since I suppose each tentacle is pretty much part of hydroid, sense-wise, it could grant a limited "vision" effect, similar to that of the Zenith rifle, showing the target held by the tentacles and "available enemies" in range of tentacles, while in puddle form, and you could aim and shoot(click) at a tentacle'd  enemy, even thru walls, with an energy cost just like the current "puddle-pull", for the tentacle to get rid of his current target by throwing it at you. It would involve throwing them from the upper height of the tentacle, in order to avoid most obstacles, and it would be best if it had a way to lob enemies over ledges whenever it feels a difference in altitude (up or down) or indirect navmesh path, the ragdolling would do the rest.

 

Comments welcome.

 

[Meneliki]

Ok, at first I was very.... hmm.. 'underwhelmed'.. by the rework. But after playing around with builds and tactics for a few hours, I'm actually loving him right now. He's actually insanely strong. He can grind the living crap out of huge groups of even high level enemies. He's still kinda squishy, but that's where undertow comes in. Hydroid not in his puddle is kindof like Loki not invis(i.e. asking to die). I'm running an efficiency build and I'm able to completely lock down good sized areas of a map.

Don't get me wrong, I was freaking out at first just like everyone else... but it's not as bad as it seems at first. Experiment with your builds and tactics. You're not going to be soloing high lvl survivals in all likelyhood, but all in all I'm actually liking his rework now.

[SkardonRydholm]

So overall, not too bad. I LOVE his visuals. God-tier fantastic. 

So far as his abilities go, his 1 is a bit better but still pretty much requires the augment to be useful(which is is rather useful since AoE corrosive procs can do a lot).

I've seen some suggestions that his 2 and 3 get smashed together, and while this could be really good, I'm not sure how viable it would be to come up with another ability. Maybe something to do with controlling the new Kraken guy à la Golden Maw? Similar energy usage to Ivara's Navigator perhaps?

The movement on his 3 is nice but feels ridiculously slow, to the point I might as well not move, or just get out of puddle form and sprint to where I need to be. Especially since it doesn't seem to drag enemies with him, even if you use his 2(which is supposed to drag enemies). Maybe increased movement speed and dragging enemies but at a higher energy cost? Not sure how to balance that one. 

His 4 looks GORGEOUS THANK YOU. It also attacks enemies much more reliably now from what I can see. However...he still does f*ck all for damage. Add some kind of scaling, perhaps something along the lines of X base damage + Y% of enemy armor/shields. Using armor/shield values instead of HP could make for interesting gameplay by incentivizing not stripping armor or bypassing shields. Or it could just be X base damage + Y% of an enemy's HP. Either way, any scaling would be nice. 

Also, I would totally die if Jeffrey(the Kraken) could swim around under the ground like a frickin' landshark and occasionally jump out or stretch up to bite/gobble up an enemy doing Z amount of damage(scaling with PS). If they survive the gobbling, they get pulled back out of the ground by a tentacle? I'm not sure how feasible something like that would be but any movement from him would be nice. Even if he doesn't do anything to do any more damage. Maybe he can occasionally drag an enemy down and strip their armor/shields? This could happen up to a maximum of 4(?) times per cast(at rank 30) and would do no damage otherwise? Kinda like the Kavat ability to remove armor from 1 enemy every X number of seconds. This way Hydroid could be a DPS enabler by removing armor(and doing CC) with his 4, as well as using the augment for his 1. He would be a mix of support and CC this way and he could have a place similar to Ivara where he doesn't do crazy damage in a huge area but has nice team utility. 

 

Just the thoughts of a nerd with a love of all things Warframe, Harrow, and Pirates. P.S. Make his theme darker, more brutal, in effort to fit theme with Halloween(Maybe we get some nice Tennogen for him from the contest?) coming up. Thank you for your time, those who read all this, and thank you DE for giving Hydroid a helping hand(or tentacle...we know tentacles was one of your guys' ideas...). 

[DonOctavia]

- nice visual rework of hydroids water 

- i like that he can now move while in underflow

Tempest Barrage - i am fine with that 

Tidal Surge - i am fine with that

Underflow - its range is way to small now even with all range mods equiped its a pudle - a smal one - way to small for a water frame that can call a kraken from a ?pudle?

nice that Hydro is able to pull enemys into water 

to bad that he cant do that if there is any loot over him 

to bad that he cant pickup loot while in underflow - he is not in an other world -  let him pickup loot

to bad he gets in afk mod even if he pulls enemys into water - if i where u i would chage that afk state for hydro - if ppl aim and pull enemys into water its not afk

here is a screen where hydro cant pull enemys:

http://imgur.com/R62iRCf

if hydro is a water based frame he should gain energy while in underflow like limbo in rift + let him get loot

good or not - depense on situation is that the dmg is growing for enemys in underflow

Tentacle Swarm - nice hydro is able to charge his 4 

its overall dmg is to low - good its finisher dmg - but dealing 200 finisher dmg is not high - if u let him deal 10 % or 5 % of enemys max HP it would be a good an strong frame for sortie and overall gameplay

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by DonOctavia
hey i was not finished ... that tab

[Death_Master_]

11 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

 

Hydroid Revisited

Please use this thread to give us your feedback on Hydroid Revisited. We will be closely monitoring your practical feedback - feel free to share videos and discussions after playing with Hydroid's revamped abilities. Non-constructive feedback, dev-bashing, and any other content that violates the Guidelines will be removed.

The sea has a revamped fear creeping in the depth, and his name is Hydroid.

With Hydroid Prime emerging to the surface soon, the team took another glance at Hydroids power and what we could do in order to achieve ability synergy. Hydroid now brings barrages, puddles, and tentacles into a deadly oceanic horror. 

General Hydroid Changes

• Hydroid’s base Shield and Armor has received a buff! 
• Shield is now 375 from 345. 
• Armor is now 200 from 65.

Tempest Barrage:

• Tempest Barrage can be cast while in Undertow and will now hit enemies submerged in Undertow.
• Tempest Barrage can now be charged for longer Duration (more explosions) and more Damage for more Energy.

Tidal Surge:

• Tidal Surge can be used to move around without canceling Undertow (note that Tidal Surge speed - and hence distance - is halved when used in Undertow).
• Tidal Surge will now pull enemies along for the ride.
• Tidal Surge can be interrupted at any point by casting Undertow to go into your puddle, sinking enemies being pulled along.

Undertow:

• Hydroid can pull enemies into Undertow by aiming and clicking on them.
• Undertow can be cast while in air.
• Jump and roll will break Hydroid out of Undertow.
• Hydroid can now move while in Undertow at the expense of Energy.
• Submerged enemies in Undertow receive Damage Per Second, increasing every second they are submerged.
• Enemies that die will be released from Undertow instead of dragging their dead bodies along for the ride.

Tentacle Swarm:

• Hold onto your ships, Tentacle Swarm has received a new look straight from the depths of the sea! Can you summon the Kraken?
• Tentacle Swarm can be charged to get more tentacles over a larger area for more Energy.
• Hydroid tentacles will now seek out nearby enemies and attempt to slam on top of them rather than just always flailing randomly and hoping they hit something.
• Tentacle Swarm will protrude from Hydroid’s Undertow if active when cast.

To be honest you forgot to mention some nerfs in changelog:

Tempest barrage

• Range nerfed to 10m and will not increase from mods

Tidal surge

• Range reduced to ridiculous 6m and speed does not increase properly from mods.

Undertow

• Range reduced to 4m and does not increase properly.
• Your Healing undertow augment now has no value.

Tentacle swarm

• Much slower cast as it now needs to be charged for several seconds to do the same it did before.
• Tentacles are as stupid as they were but now tend to less grab the enemies but beat them.
• Casting while undertow is active will spawn all tentacles inside puddle making them useless as they do not beat enemis inside puddle.

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Death_Master_

[(PSN)Kaynyne]

My biggest problem with the rework is tempest barrage. I like the idea of charging it. But what would have made more sense would be to increase the radius not the duration. I play and plan on playing Hydroid as a Melee heavy, ground finisher frame. He is one of the only frames to be able to constantly use ground finisher and that should have been the main focus of his rework. I love his armor buff that will allow me to do more damage before having to drop into curative undertow, but i still think you missed the opportunity to show off one of his more unique skills.

[leadwolf1]

I am still on and reading some saying how they are fine with the changes, I do not believe they have tried higher missions and did anything different then farming to say all is fine. I ask before you agree all is fine use the frame in higher missions, without the use of nekros , nova , oberon , trinity, anything that helps the frame and see how long you last. then talk about the changes , please. Some of us really want good rework and do plan on using the frame. this will not happen unless there are some changes. it will stay a low end , farming frame.

[InanimateAlex]

After a few runs of all the mission types (Minus Defection and Hive), the Sortie and a Kuva Flood I have some thoughts, by ability:

Barrage: Pretty much the same really, targeting still gets me killed when I'm trying to revive team mates, (before you ask I was using Range Mods), enemies sometimes still saunter through and kill you. Maybe have a knockdown linger in the area, just say the slipped on a puddle or something. Also maybe a bug but I have to wait a second after casting to begin recasting which is weird in combination with the charging.

Tidal Surge: Bug where it doesn't hit enemies notwithstanding, Is Good, I like being able to cancel it using Undertow (Thats kinda costly though, Reduced cast cost on Undertow during Tidal surge? Or just let us recast to cancel)

Undertow: The best part of this rework, Love being able to drag Enemies in, hilarious and thematic, combined with Curative Undertow and Tidal Surge makes it a great survival tool. However, The damage is still pretty mediocre, 50 seconds to kill a lvl50? Possibly add scaling of some kind, Possible Percentile damage or Increased Damage for pulling in more enemies (Incentivizes using the grab which is kinda costly)

Tentacle swarm: First off I love the new Look, Its feels like its more efficient at disruption now, however the major Issue of It leaving empty patches is still a concern, Casting from undertow helps a bit but still leaves gaps. Charging is cool but It needs to provide a much larger buff as roundabout a 50% bonus tentacles for double energy isn't so great (On top of that it leaves you unable to do anything while charging)

Passive: Still really Meh, hes not a good Melee frame even with more armor

Still, a good start, Keep it up guys

[Fallen_Echo]

They still not fixed the tentacles and barrage being an RNG ability.

[Grimmstyler]

I get this idea.. Now that i gotta charge to get a more devastating Tentacle Swarm, its gonna work up a severe case of Carpal Tunnel

[(XBOX)XSuperXDreadX]

I am a Xbox recently finding out about hydroids new rework coming out to PS4 and one users. This rework excites me because hydroid doesn't really get any love in the Warframe community though he should. His old abilities were pointless or were outshined by some frosty competition and this rework can give him a new hope. Hydroids rework in my opinion has made him more of an option for people to choose from by fixing a number of his abilities. My favorite undertow was done perfectly, everything it should have gotten was added and then some! It now can used without being seen as a *** to your squad. His 2nd ability tidal surge was also done quite correctly as well. Being able to drag enemies instead of lazily KOing them is a lot better for certain situations and can add synergy to frames such as rhino charge or atlas RKO. These were done well. His 4th was questionable. The kraken needs to be able to do something and not just be am aesthetic. Make that monster eat people and add more tenticles or duration. The swarm still gets outshined by frost and vauban. Make it throw enemies and hurl them off the map while having the loot drop right by the tenticle. It just needs more flare. I saved the first ability for last. My reason is because I hate this thing with a passion and I can't find a single good use for it. The sad part is that is was more useful when it was lvl 0. It was a pin point storm that made sure enemies kept falling and it actually gave hydroid am edge for guarding hallways, but when it's maxed it's garbage. I can't hit anything and if I reduce the range then the tenticle swarm, undertow, and surge become useless. This ability sucks and will continue to suck with the charge feature. It needs scrapped and replaced. I'd prefer a more passive approach. Let it be an ink burst that nullifies targets while lowering their defense or a seashell that makes him resistant to status and procs. Something legtimate. I take feedback and comments anytime

[hukurokuju5]

last hotfix claimed to have fixed this, but all i see is the range indicator totally removed.  there is also no aforementioned charge indicator at all.

LOL?

[(PSN)Green4774]

Since the rework focuses on Undertow the most, I think his abilities need stronger synergies together. This first update for him feels like a very strong step in the right direction.

 

Tidal Surge:I think that Tidal Surge should become a toggle ability when used in Undertow. While it is toggled on he would be able to steer and move around more reliably instead of straight-forward bursts. This would allow him to surf around and pick up more enemies.

Tentacle Swarm:His fourth ability Tentacle Swarm still feels aimless. It should be given a new purpose in dragging enemies to Hydroid inside of his Undertow. When the enemy has been dropped into Undertow the tentacle would dissolve and would search out a new target in the cast radius. Also, if Hydroid is not in Undertow or the cast radius of Tentacle Swarm, the tentacles would drag enemies to the Kraken in the middle where it would do similar damage to Undertow.

Undertow: Needs some tweaking to its damage and scaling formula.  Also allow for allies to fire into it similar to Nyx's Absorb or Mag's Magnetize. One of the biggest complaints about Undertow is that it shields enemies from allies. New Hydroid is also very energy hungry, reducing the base cost of his abilities while in Undertow could help him out. 

Tempest Barrage: You got me there. I'm not sure what to do to it. Possibly allow it to add to the DOT in undertow?

[Evanescent]

Before playing Hydroid and forming my final impressions, I have some concerns.

His rework seems to be designed around his 3 and his CC. Which is great, CC is king in warframe.

Unfortunately, his CC consists of:

1)Throwing things around

2)Flinging them away

3)Putting them in a puddle impervious to external damage

...all of which prevent them from being shot or melee'd at. So essentially, you made him provide CC that protects enemies from the bulk of your gameplay loop.

....

Why?

I can now pull enemies into my puddle, but why would I want them in my puddle where I can't do anything to them? The damage scaling inside is too poor to stay meaningful for long. 

??

His 1 still has the problem of being useless in most environment because a small barrel or box blocked the shots. It's not consistent enough to be used as quick CC.

His 2 is mobility, and throws enemies around and lets you move in undertow. 

Undertow is still undertow. It's smoother, but still kind of counter to gameplay. As mentioned before, why would you want enemies in your undertow? :(

His 4 flails enemies around preventing you from shooting at them. They also still have 'bald-patches' where they don't cover ground, and I guess their range was nerfed to balance the scaling. That was unnecessary.

I don't know, all these changes just enforce his place as a frame with finicky CC and troll potential. Because now your hydroid can roll around the map dragging enemies around. 

And he still doesn't scale.

I think the following things could help make his CC more effective in gameplay:

1)Instead of or in addition to  damaging them, let undertow debuff enemies inside: Strip %armor/shield permanently per second, and reduce max health by x% for flesh type enemies.

2)Let Barrage have bigger Aoe on hit, more hits per second, and punch through environment.

3)Let Tidal Surge and undertow stun enemies for Xs after being released. This lets them be used as quick CC and gun/melee them down while dazed.

4)If Tentacle Swarm is cast in undertow, let the tentacles grab and throw enemies into the puddle. Inside the puddle, let all enemies be melee'd by Hydroid to emulate the kraken feeding on them. This will give him a powerful tool to both lock down and chew enemies up in Undertow. Per enemy killed, a new tentacle should spawn with a shorter independent duration.

5)If Tentacle swarm is cast on its own or left on its own without undertow, let the Kraken's tentacles grab enemies, smash them against the environment, then hold them up, stunned, for Hydroid and his allies to shoot at. Killing the enemy should free the tentacle to grab another. Grabbed enemies can take bonus damage from certain damage types as suitable.

 

Thanks for your work, and more feedback will follow gameplay. Please consider the suggestions as Hydroid is on the verge of being awesome. Don't give up now!

The Kraken head looks awesome, wish it would persist or swim around in the puddle!

[CrimeHole]

Hello! 

I'd thought i'd also share my experience with this revamp of hydroid in a "long-ish" but informative paragraph in the order of abilities with a concluding statement.

• 1st ABILITY - Honestly speaking feels the same with just a bigger drain on energy. When charged  just  a minor buff to DMG (if charged all the way), i imagined he was gonna get A NEW ABILITY instead of adding a small perk to it. This ability seems to never have a predetermined target to hit it's much more RNG based with randomized  unpredetermined locations where to land instead of WHO to hit. The DMG is completely useless with scaling enemies. ALSO can we get an indicator to see the charge of the ability?

 

• 2nd ABILITY - I'm glad that it can pull targets now, but it seems to miss some enemies EVEN WHEN RUSHED AT DIRECTLY. This skill has always been useless, it's much more a gimmick to hydroid's theme than having any functionality or aiding use at all! If we were to have any control over where we're to be headed it'd be great for situation where a quick escape is necessary, instead of stepping on the gas at full throttle.

 

• 3rd ABILITY -  *sigh*....Okay look, i get it... at first it was funny being a darn puddle of water. But let's get serious for a second and really stop and think how this ability made it through a REVAMP. It's (partly) U.S.E.L.E.S.S. beyond it's function to cancel out dmg if in dire need, or general CC. Scaling enemies will bypass this ability incredibly quickly with hydroid's energy pool being as poor as it is now. This revamp only made him a duration/energy-efficiency mandatory frame. Disregarding the ability to cast it mid air, or mid-tidal surge, it's just something that needs to be removed and rethought out. ALSO, ooh my god can you be any slower? it's such a hinder to all my squad who move quick. (I didn't get to test my augs so i will be disregarding them and might update my thread later.)

 

• 4th ABILITY - Again, at first it was funny but it's just (like i've said already) much more of a gimmick to his theme.(I DO LOVE THE KRAKEN SHOWING UP THOUGH! but....that's all he does?....just pop his head up for 3 seconds and go? well...that's disappointing. I was hoping he'd do some chasing the enemy or react like chroma's effigy, DO SOMETHING you know? this is all aside the point and just personal nitpicking.) His 4th has always been an inconvinience to all other team mates who are trying to kill the enemies being flung from side to side at random directions. It's just unnecessary, and needs to be addressed. The hold function (much like his #1) had me more focused on getting it fully charged than on surviving and playing the fast pace of the mission. By the time i was done charging it, i was downed due to his low energy pool necessary to escape dmg-flooding with something like his 2 or 3. I like the tentacles spawning on undertow but i'd like it if they followed as you moved. Also spreading AOE only disperses concentration of DMG, One tentacle only does so much to a line of enemies. The stationary placement of the tentacles renders them useless when moving quick is of dire need, it's almost a necessary evil, thinking how an interception point would benefit from them just being there while you capture the other points.

I reimagined his 4th ability as a projectile deflecting, entity (that being the kraken) that will lurk below shoulder height of hydroid while swinging and targeting enemies near by, acting as a protective wall opposite of the direction you're looking towards. Holding the ability will launch the kraken entity a distance from hydroid positioning it to act as flinging tentacles  while it lurks in the middle (so much like it is now). Here's an extremely rough draft of how it might look(?):

Overall i'd like it if some of the animation casting times were reduced to accommodate (more specifically ability 1 & 4) to the fast pace of the game. I'd love it if undertow were to be removed, he could get it as an idle animation! that'd be neat! Then i can liquify rhino into a TOUGH mess!. I've always loved hydroid's theme but as of now, i just feel like he's wasted potential.  Sorry for the long review on the revamp! I hope i get taken in consideration along with every other constructive review. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by CrimeHole

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)XSuperXDreadX said:

It now can used without being seen as a *** to your squad.

It still can, and now it's worse. Nothing has changed aside from the fact you can move around and pull enemies via tentacle, which actually makes it even more annoying in squads if the goal is to kill enemies.

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)XSuperXDreadX said:

I take feedback and comments anytime

I have to be honest, I can't really take this kind of feedback seriously if you haven't actually had the chance to play his rework (which isn't your fault obviously).

Edited August 11, 2017 by LazerSkink

[Shadedraxe]

52 minutes ago, Death_Master_ said:

To be honest you forgot to mention some nerfs in changelog:

Tempest barrage

• Range nerfed to 10m and will not increase from mods

Tidal surge

• Range reduced to ridiculous 6m and speed does not increase properly from mods.

Undertow

• Range reduced to 4m and does not increase properly.
• Your Healing undertow augment now has no value.

Tentacle swarm

• Much slower cast as it now needs to be charged for several seconds to do the same it did before.
• Tentacles are as stupid as they were but now tend to less grab the enemies but beat them.
• Casting while undertow is active will spawn all tentacles inside puddle making them useless as they do not beat enemis inside puddle.

 

And don't forget the 5 meter nerf to tentacle swarm... and 10 meters when charged... it used to be 20 meters unmodded :(

[Urlan]

Personally, I feel its not really an improvement but rather making his moves worse while making them have optional flexibility but much more drain-y energy wise to do so. Even then, the moves themselves did not get improvements to make them more functional. Its an interesting start but not fleshed out enough to be an improvement. Give a check at the Hydroid feedback thread and you will see more hands-on impressions.

[shut]

I haven't played Hydroid yet, but I keep hearing about how his 1 and 4 are weaker uncharged than they were pre-rework. As in, you literally have to spend more time casting and spend extra energy just for 1 and 4 to have the same effectiveness as yesterday.

I hope it's not as serious as people make it out to be. But at the same time, I wonder why that's a thing in the first place. Like, yeah, totally what the weakest frame in the game needed-- nerfs to uncharged ability casts.