Duality Equinox. In deeps review.

[Chatv71e]

Update 

Beam weapon buff arived and naturaly Duality benefits from it.

Now Beam weapons is not something I use on Duality often and a reason for that is naturally - limited range. AI does not take in account this stat (although it does take it in account when it comes to castanas or ogris (?)) and will try hit far away targets with short beam, doing nothing. You could try and fix that with mods like Sinister Reach (and I use that on all of my beam weapons) but it's a band-aid and will take a mod slot from your weapon.

Still some of the beam weapons I used before, some of them should be revisited now.

Amprex. Amprex was one of the top pick for Duality, and now its even better. Damage buff, endless status procs. It's just too good not to pick it for indor missions. Hunter Munitions on it and watch Duality covers entire room in 300% damage boosted slash procs. Hit multiple targets at once and now use up even less ammo, meaning specter will reload less. Simply great.

Following up - Atomos was something I was using more than Amprex. High base damage was melting low/mid level enemies. Now its better with the status procs buff but Amprex easily overruns it. Still one great weapon to use.

Ignis. Ignis just fell out of my favor for a while now. It was pretty mediocre before. Now when Specter can't even hit enemies through walls, it's even worse. Constant reloads on a single kill. Just awful.

Quanta Vandal / Quanta. Quanta is very good right now! It has the biggest range of all beam weapons (50m) great status and a good crit. Specter can't use alt fire attacks, but can detonate your Quanta orbs if they are in a line of fire. A worthy weapon to try out.

Convectrix feels a bit too clunky to use. The wind up time before two beams cross is not compensated by the fact they deal damage on their way. Range is a bit low and it WILL reload  on almost every kill. As well as sometimes reload twice.

Phage is good. It also has a wind up time, but its rather short. The damage output is great. Status is great. Range a bit short but managable. Will not reaload till uses up all the ammo in a clip. Certainly a weapon to look at! And if you were already a fan of it, try it on Duality now!

Embolist. This is a hard one for me. In theory it should be good with 300% damage buff booster toxin procs and status and rivens that boosts damage even more up to 600%. But it just feels bad. Like a worse Ignis. I don't know. If you already have it with a proper build, you can try it out, othervise I would not bother.

---

That's it for now. More will come when I get my hands on other weapons.

The one more thing to mention is Combustion Beam. It has a great synergy with all the beam weapons and Duality on a low level content. 

 

[Hypernaut1]

duality also synergizes well with a Huras Kubrow. Huras will cloak you and you can spawn a clone that will attack enemies with a powerful primary. 

[Chatv71e]

On 2/22/2018 at 8:52 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

duality also synergizes well with a Huras Kubrow. Huras will cloak you and you can spawn a clone that will attack enemies with a powerful primary. 

It synergizes well with  Azdara Kavat as well, because cat can give Duality a crit buff. That so far the only pets I consider being good with Duality.

Also here is a fun thing. If you jump into operator mode while Duality killing thing, you will not get credit for kills. So you now can be even more ninja.

Here is some pacific (mostly) index run.

4 kills, 113 points. Something is not right there.....

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

54 minutes ago, Chatv71e said:

If you jump into operator mode while Duality killing thing

you also wont get credit for other kills you might do such as kills with the zenistar disk deployed while you are operator.

[Chatv71e]

54 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

you also wont get credit for other kills you might do such as kills with the zenistar disk deployed while you are operator.

Oh yes. Everything created by your warframe that kills while you are in operator mode doesn't counts as your kills. It's just funny because it confuses people who were previusly confused by Extinguished Dragon Key even more.

[Chatv71e]

A little update to keep this up.

I recently revisited some of the old weapons as well as maxed out some of the new ones. It seems that accuracy of Specter slightly improved for assault rifles so I'm testing that.

Hind is not too bad. I haven't put too much forma into it, but it sure looks good. Since Specter suffers no recoil and 300% damage slash procs are a thing, it  feels decent. On longer range accuracy drops down a bit but it will still hit 70% of shots. What makes this weapon even better is 5/5 riven disposition. You can roll some crazy good riven with it and then summon a copy of it. Two for one? What a bargain.

Stradavar seems to be fairly decent as well. Much like Hind it has decent acurracy, good damage and 4/5 rivens.

Prisma Gorgon. This one I feel conflicted about. I've seen it been used on Dualy with full build and it looked very strong. The thing about Prisma Gorgon is its accuracy on long range is a bit lacking. And by lacking I mean terrible. So it's a weapon for more of a 'have you duality following you and killng all around' playstile. I'm more used to 'place your duality on highland and let it snipe enemies out'.

Speaking of bad accuracy Latron is the case. I just simply threw it away because of it. For now.

The upgraded version of Latron on other hand is great! Tiberon not only has almost 100% accuracy, but it also has a great damage and 5/5 riven disposition. I don't know how I missed this rifle before. It's actualy on a power level with the best dualiy guns. Roll a crazy riven into it, buff it by 300% and it will melt corrupted eximus heavy gunner level 150 in no time.

---

Now to the sad news. With nerf to beam weapon range lot of them now pretty bad. Dualiy will try to make 300m range shots with weapons that limited to 20m. That is kinda sad.

With Arcane Enhancement rework, we can now put them on the frame. Sadly this does not affect duality at all. That makes me angery. Mirage clones benefit from arcane procs, Mesa's Peacemaker benefit from it as well. But Duality can't have nice things.

The other thng that doesn't affect Dualiy is Set Mods. The set effect (for example crit enchance) has no effect on the clone summoned with the set. 

Sad lunch for Konzu.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Chatv71e

[Chatv71e]

Its time again!

                                           Update

So not a whole bunch is going on. Broken weapons are still not fixed and I had lot of stuff to grind during plague star event, but I got some weapons piled up, so here are the results.

Lest start from worst

Primaries

Tiberon Prime - was a prime dissapointment for me. Turns out Tiberon (as well as its prime version) accuracy only good when targets are not moving. Once they start moving something bad happens. Really bad. It manages to hit 2/10 shots at best. Saddening considering that the damage is enormous.

Dex Sybaris - seems to be okay-ish. I don't find sybarys weapons particulary strong and accuracy is also not the best but with proper build you can make it semi decent. Now I say 'semi decent' because I compera weapons power level on level 150 corrupted eximuses. For most content it will be okay.

Latron Wraith / Latron Prime - both perfromed okay-ish so far. Unlike the regular Latron they have better accuracy with  Latron Prime  being the most accurate. It's still not ideal though and both of them tend to constantly reload twice. That takes a lot of time because this weapons relooad is rather slow.

Prisma Tetra - is broken like many projectile weapons. The infamous homing missiles bug that makes clones bullets fly towards your last shot location. BUT unlike other wepoans this one is in fact usable AND fun! The difference is Tetra can use Kinetic Ricochet mod. So it doesn't matter so much where bullets will fly if they will bounce around. Some of them will eventually hit. Works best in tight rooms. Alternatively you could not use the gun yourself and let clone do all the work. 

And now the winner 

Strun Wraith - I have no clue how I could miss this weapon before. I guess that's how warframe is, suddenly you find out the weapon that you forgot about and it destroys everything. Strun Wraith is EXTREAMLY GOOD. The power level of this shotgun rivals even Arca Scisco. There are few things that make it so srong. 

Accuracy. You would think - it's a shotgun, how accurate can it be? Well it manages to kill enemies on range of 130m. Naturaly not all pellets of the shot will hit, but it doesn't matter much, because.....

Status chance. Easy 100% status with just 3 dual stat mods. Make your clone strip armor like theres no tomorrow. Make it proc damage over time effects that scale with Duality 300% damage buff. And that on every pellet! 

Crit Chance is also good! Pair it with Hunter Munitions for even more 300% boosted slash procs.

Riven Disposition. 5/5. Like why? There is no reason for it to be that high. All kinds of insane rivens you could use and your specter will use them too! This might change (get nerfed) but shotguns tend to have very limited mod space. There are lot of good mods you want to have on a shotgun and riven will save you slot or two. 

And finall. The best thing about Strun weapons - Reload! If you used Zarr on Duality before, you know how effective is interruptible reload on Duality. But instead of reloading 3 bullets per one cycle, in Strun case Duality reloads 10 shots per just 1 reload cycle. Basically meaning that Strun Wraith has NO RELOAD TIME on your clone! How insane is that? You just mod it (or riven it like I did) for fire rate and all you will hear is BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM. Fire never stops! Specter will spray with 100% status bullets everything around till it's dead.

And in case you forgot, specters have no recoil. 

Status beast, accurate, riven friendly, no reaload time, all that makes this gun 10/10 for specter uses.

---

Now back to sad parts

Secondaries

Akbolto Prime - sad story. Good stats, good damage but projectiles have travel time and accuracy is not on point. It's still fairly usable on close quarters, but 70+ meters and suddenly this pistols are useless.

Dex Furis has accuracy of Akstiletto. Only about 30% of shots will hit. Very long reload time, but at leas they don't reload twice. It's not the worst, but clearly far from being good.

Twin Rogga are..... questionable. I can't really judge this weapon because I don't understand it. It's slow, it doesn't even hit that hard the bullet spread is also high. But then again, I also see no downsides using it on Duality. Clone will use it just about as player would. So if you thinks that this weapon is stron, or you have a riven or build that makes it so, try it out with Duality. 

 

---

Melee

Dex Dakra is meh. They do cause decent slash procs, but have a rather small range. And its Duality we talking about. It's pretty bad in clone's hands, even if target is stationary.

Prisma Dual Cleavers are also questionable. Low range, inability for clone to fully utilize attack speed or different combos makes it pretty meh.

Gunsen is good at applying heavy slash procs. Good status chance, good attack speed and Slicing Feathers default combo with slash proc at the end can do some heavy damage to a single target. The range is low though so in a fight were target would move, it's gonna be bad.

 

I've experimanted in attempt to make a zaw that would fit Duality's needs. I came out with status based plague polearm. And it seems fairly strong. Huge range lets it cleave a room of enemies, causing all kinds of status effect and boosting damage with Condition Overload. It feels much stronger than Lession that I normaly use. But it's still in stage of experiment. And it's still pretty damn bad against moving enemies.

---

So that's it for now. More weapons will come out soon, as well as ew game mod and new open area. Open areas is what Dualiy good for, so I expect to have lot of fun with it. 

Few words about index. Looks like Link Trinity build is now meta. I will admit it's very effective.  But from what I saw, Duality is pretty much tied up in clearing speed with it. Maybe 10-15% slower because you can't kill enemies through walls. Most of the time I end up even or 10-20 less kill that local Trinity. That however changes on a longer run because Duality does not consume ammo and damage with status weapons only scales. In addition, after you summoned a clone you can move around freely.

Energy Transfer new augment for Mend & Maim is like.... dog . I see no scenario where I would want to use it. And we are talking about Duality build. A build that is supposed to benefit from switching froms. 

I experimented with that mod a bit and it provides nothing you could not do by pressing your 1 twice. Nothing. AND it eats up a mod slot. So there is that. My current build remains unchanged.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Chatv71e

[Flecheck]

I used the Sicarus Prime and I did not have any bug and it work well.

[TheEternalJester]

Bookmarked. I've been using The Duality build out in the plains as often as I go out to it, mostly because the AI is more efficient than me at killing things out there. My only complaint is that it always targets the dropships first, when it could just be killing troops, but I blame that on the AI. Still, this is pretty useful, I do have to experiment with a few weapon builds just to make sure I have enough healing to sustain me while I'm out there. The Sentinel healing mod just doesn't heal quite fast enough.

 

Still, good on you for testing this. Your work with The Duality weapon testing for the AI is showing us also what weapons would work best on spectres.

Edited April 16, 2018 by TheEternalJester

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

im so happy! i finished farming Equinox today... now i just need to wait a week to actually play the frame.

[Chatv71e]

6 hours ago, Flecheck said:

I used the Sicarus Prime and I did not have any bug and it work well.

That's interesting, mind sharing your skcarus build?

My duality jams her sicarus after switching 4 targets. 4 kills and it can't reload.

[Flecheck]

[Chatv71e]

Small Sanctuary update

Not a whole bunch is teasted so far but here are some results. Today just the bad ones.

First of all - the most important thing  - Peculiar Bloom DOES work on crits caused by Duality, but only if you are the host. This is vey important. Very. 

Now to the weapons

Veldt. Veldt made me sad. Such a good looking and functioning gun, but such a bad damage. Perfect accuracy, good fire rate because specter uses semi-auto like auto. But the damge is so damn lacking. Even in hands of a clone with 300% dmg buff. Maybe in a future it gets better, then it's gonna be one of the top guns for Duality for sure.

Hystrix is interesting.  Clone will always use the default fire mode of the weapon. So in this case your Duality gonna be using poisonous Hystrix. That is probably the best outcome over every other status. 300% damage boosted toxin procs hit very hard. But this gun has a TON of downdies that also synergises with each other in awful way.

 - Travel time. Hystrix projectiles take a while to reach the destination. Meaning that Clone will keep firing even if target is already potentially dead.

- Low magazine capacity combanied with the fact that Clone will never let go the trigger equals constant reloads. And to make things worse this gun reloads twice.

Overall it makes this gun pretty bad.

Secura Dual Cestra - another example of piled downsides. Low accuracy, long reload, homing projectiles bug makes it gun bad in hands on Duality.

---

Few words about Sanctuary itself. Duality is by all means is not bad there. Extra body that will auto aim on enemies and clean them up as soon as they appear is rather nice. Plus Simaris won't disable that ability. So if you have a room for it in your build throw it in.

Khora, new frame interaction with Duality is negative. Not even Ai can hit enemies that are spinning in the strangledome.

---

That's all for now. I got bunch of melee weapons qued up for tests, but as you miht already know - melee weapons have the worst interaction with clone. So it would hardly matter.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Chatv71e

[Fallen_Echo]

My only problems with the duality specter if i ignore the ai and its shenigans, is the duration, the hp and finally the ai and its strange connection with corpus weaponary.

 

The duration is too low unless you build for duration aswell, this would be a less problem if the specter would be immortal but its just as sturdy as you.

 

For the corpus weaponary im not sure if you tested it, but try any of the corpus repeaters like the dera or the supra. The AI negative accuracy is soo bad the specter will literally shoot out from his back instead of its front.

[Chatv71e]

5 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

For the corpus weaponary im not sure if you tested it, but try any of the corpus repeaters like the dera or the supra. The AI negative accuracy is soo bad the specter will literally shoot out from his back instead of its front.

It's a known 'homing missile' bug. It makes it so when you use weapon yourself, the copy of a weapon will redirect missiles to the point of your original fire. If you don't use your weapon at all, the copy will work just fine. Maybe one day they fix it. Soon(TM)

Health is indeed an issue. Even with health mods specter die pretty fast on high level. But if you play smart and place it somewhere isolated letting it snipe enemies it will work just fine.

Gotta be smart about where you wanna place your sentry

 

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Chatv71e said:

It's a known 'homing missile' bug. It makes it so when you use weapon yourself, the copy of a weapon will redirect missiles to the point of your original fire. If you don't use your weapon at all, the copy will work just fine. Maybe one day they fix it. Soon(TM)

Now thats it, the specter fails to attack normally regardless if i use the weapon or not. The bizarr point is that this only seems to ever appear on corpus repeaters, i can just spawn the specter with the supra without shooting at all and it still fails to use it.

[KemicolKid]

Duality is currently broken.....

[KemicolKid]

Duality seems to be functioning again, and the homing missile bug is gone!

[Chatv71e]

On 2018-06-16 at 4:37 AM, KemicolKid said:

Duality seems to be functioning again, and the homing missile bug is gone!

Not on all weapons though. 

A little update since we got a new weapon

Pyrana Prime performed fairly well, though I expected a bit more from it.

Advantages

- Accuracy is nice

- Damage is fair (though I expected more, it can't compete with best weapons, but it's not bad)

Disadvantages

- Double reload. (kinda more or less fixed with Stunning Speed)

- Minor shotgun disadvantages: fall off on high range, spread on high range, shotgun status calculation)

- Not utilizing prime passive. While spectral Pyrana appears, it doesn't add anything to specter.

Conclusion - a borderline good weapon. Its more of a 'summon duality and run around with it' play style weapon. Not a big fan of it myself, but sure there are people who like that. Also a good riven disposition to make it even better.

Recommend getting it and trying it out.

---

Intercton with Limbo became a bit better after Limbo revisit. Now specter can fire in stasis and not break it, though it will still stuck focusing enemies on other plane and doing no damage, so Limbo is unplesant ally unless you give your specter melee.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Chatv71e

[Gemtech]

Bumped into you during a random index and asked a bit about the build and you said i should check this thread out 

Lots of fun thanks for all the work put in testing weapons. 

 

I did test the strun w and yeah the its nice not having the clone waste a lot of reload time but for now im going to stick with boar prime. 

I mostly prefer the boar because if i'm using the weapon too i don't get stuck with super long reload times. it also has good dispo and cheap rivens.

boar p has quite a lot of spread but it can still kill stuff across the room in the index, sometimes the large spread ends up netting multiple kills. 

Actually had some people report me today because they thought i was hacking because i was playing this build. 

It does have the bug where the cloan sometimes reloads twice in a row for no good reason , or even sometimes as soon as you spawn it , but when its not doing that its very very good ; I have even been playing this for fun in index for a change 

 

 

I'm not sure if you mentioned it but as far as i can tell arcanes do not apply to the clone only the player.

On a related note, I found conflicting answers about "arcane rage" applying to shotguns (it has rifles listed in game) did testing with an unmodded tigris p vs 125 corrupted bombards in the simulation and from my testing yes it does apply for shotguns but only for the player. 

 

Again thanks , fun build to play around with. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Gemtech

[Chatv71e]

7 hours ago, Gemtech said:

I mostly prefer the boar because if i'm using the weapon too i don't get stuck with super long reload times. it also has good dispo and cheap rivens.

boar p has quite a lot of spread but it can still kill stuff across the room in the index, sometimes the large spread ends up netting multiple kills. 

Actually had some people report me today because they thought i was hacking because i was playing this build. 

It does have the bug where the cloan sometimes reloads twice in a row for no good reason , or even sometimes as soon as you spawn it , but when its not doing that its very very good ; I have even been playing this for fun in index for a change 

Thanks for coming by :D 

I tested boar before and was conflicted about result, but since you say it's decent I'll add it to the list.

I had people raging and threatening to report me as well. Guess dancing in front of mesas and taking all her kill was a bit too much.

7 hours ago, Gemtech said:

I'm not sure if you mentioned it but as far as i can tell arcanes do not apply to the clone only the player.

I think I mentioned it somewhere along with buffs from weapons like Lesion, but I just don't have funds/interest to farm eidolons to test all the arcanes and make a list of working/not working/those that buff player but not clone effects.

[Chatv71e]

Some updates in on the way. If I won't be feeling too lazy I'll add recently tested weapons to main post of the thread and maybe add a TL;DR section

[Hypernaut1]

Duality equinox is becoming one if my favorite builds especially with the new augment.

With the right weapon, duality is one of the most powerful 1s in the game. 

[Chatv71e]

A little update to the main post. 

Added TL;DR section for those who doesn't need to know the deeps of the build

Added a screen of solo Prodman run with this build. Was interesting. Apperantly someone did a solo Prodman run with Excalibur Umbra using his passive like Duality in one of hotspots. And put it on reddit.  And  now index is filled with people trying to do the same. It both makes me laugh and makes me sad. When Duality existed long before that and does the same but with more damage, pepople think that Umbra passive OP....

 

And down forget to use Extinguished Dragon Key  if you are using this build. It's the build signature.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Chatv71e

[MotherofHermes]

On 2018-04-15 at 10:48 PM, Chatv71e said:

 

Energy Transfer new augment for Mend & Maim is like.... dog . I see no scenario where I would want to use it. And we are talking about Duality build. A build that is supposed to benefit from switching froms. 

I experimented with that mod a bit and it provides nothing you could not do by pressing your 1 twice. Nothing. AND it eats up a mod slot. So there is that. My current build remains unchanged.

So. For a build that uses narrow minded there isn't much use for this. However, if you have an average range and good efficiency then this becomes awesome. 

Why: maim procs. 

If you don't have energy transfer you have to reactivate Mend/maim. This takes a good second. However, With Energy transfer you can reactivate maim and restun all the enemies around you and update your duality clone at the sametime. instead of a turret that you put on a high point, I have a duality focused on jumping into the middle of enemies, forcing a maim proc, and then fighting back to back with pyrana primes (you should def try this, it's awesome). 

Also, after your stun (or at any time) if you need HP simply switch forms again and deactivate mend for a big team heal. While you are doing this, your buddy has killed 3 enemies with Pyrana prime and now is holding the spectral one as well.

Btw, have you tried pyrana prime? quick reload. one animation. great damage. small spread on it makes the specters lack of accuracy not so bad. 4* riven disposition.