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Chains of Harrow: Update 21.5.0

[DE]Megan

By [DE]Megan,
in PC Update Notes

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Xyhon

Xyhon

Posted
Posted

Puddle is useless without proper range. Since this is stationary defense mechanism, also which requires you to point and click enemies (yeah, 20 spawns are like tons of energy, but whatever, said DE).
Next thing. Instead of allowing pickups to be taken when in puddle (which would make at least some compensation for energy loss we are suffering now for that goddamn clicking on target), let's disable sentinels. Great move. Really.

 

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FRLUJANO

FRLUJANO

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Posted (edited)

thanks a lot DE for the update greetings from Venezuela.

 

Too bad i live in Venezuela cause i can't buy tennogen stuff but hey, they did an amazing job and deserve at least my admiration :cool:

Edited by FRLUJANO
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leadwolf1

leadwolf1

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Still farming frame right now, SO I did the alert for argon with hydroid, results a purple charger stood right next to me ( I used shade and was invisible ) I used barrage  more than once the charger did not get knocked down and I used tentacle swarm and he did not get picked up from that either.  what happen to better targeting. just sound and things getting slower for allies.I reserve the right to change my answer as rework continues. still not reliable abilities.

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Darkvramp

Darkvramp

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this only fixes one thing about him, raising his energy by a random amount from 150 to 188 does not fix the fact that he goes through that  wayyyyy to fast.

He is slow when in undertow, and is penalized for moving by having a high energy cost to go with it.

Impact damage, you do know that most of the enemies in the game are resistant to impact damage, right?

Whats with this RNG passive and rng on both his one and his 4? i dont want to spend energy to MAYBE hit an enemy.

This changes very little of hydroid, he still sucks and is still the worst warframe in game at present time.

AND he still has a nerfed base range on his 3 and 4, that has not been mentioned anywhere, WTF is up with that?

Edited by Darkvramp
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Vaygrim

Vaygrim

Posted
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Chains of Harrow: Update 21.5.0

Hydroid Changes & Fixes

As mentioned in Hotfix 21.4.2 on Friday, we continued reading feedback and testing Hydroid changes up until todays Update. 1 week into Hydroid Revisited and more than a handful of changes from constructive feedback have been implemented! 

The changes below cover a number of ideas about making Hydroid's simply feel better to use, particularly for teams. In the scheme of our 33 current Warframes, Hydroids role is to be a fun and active way to use the power of water and swashbuckling themes to take on enemies. 

 

  • Hydroid has received the PBR treatment! 
  • Hydroid’s base Energy has been increased from 150 to 188.
  • Tempest Barrage now has a charging sound to indicate when the ability is being charged.
  • Allies can shoot their weapons into Hydroid's Undertow to transfer half of their damage and distribute it among all enemies in the puddle.
  • Undertow damage per second is now a % of the target's max Health.
  • Undertow damage per second now scales with the amount of enemies in the pool - more submerged enemies, more damage! 
  • Undertow now deals Impact damage towards submerged enemies.
  • Tentacle Swarm’s tentacles now move at a slower rate when enemies are captured in their grasp to improve issues with hard to shoot flailing enemies.
  • Improved Tentacle Swarm’s cast sound to sound more aquatic and powerful when charging up.
  • Improved Tentacle Swarm when cast on walls/odd surfaces.
  • Improved the performance of Tentacle Swarm.
  • Sentinel abilities are now disabled while in Undertow. This fixes vacuumed items blocking your view and you from pulling in enemies.
  • Fixed being able to Transference to your Operator when in Undertow. 
  • Fixed Undertow’s Energy drain when moving applying to elevators.
  • Fixed certain enemies not working properly with Undertow FX (Nox for instance).

Just going to rattle off some issues with this:

  • Going from Old Hydroid's casting method for Tempest Barrage to the new 'charge up version' is clunky and awkward. You've basically given the 'possibility' of increased damage, but NERFED the power's casting time by increasing it to 4 seconds in order to get the 'new damage'. So you've given us a Quality of Life Improvement by lowering the QOL for using that power.
  • Range for Undertow is still nerfed, when is this going to be restored to old values?
  • Range for Tentacle Swarm has been nerfed, and now we have been given a QOL Improvement of a 3 second casting time just to get the OLD range back for our ability.
  • Undertow still does not drag submerged victims when moving, even when using Tidal Surge, as promised in the initial 'Revisit' patch notes.
  • The new 'grab mechanic' for Undertow still has zero targeting forgiveness, and requires pixel-perfect precision of clicking... much the same as Saryn's #1 ability does. This is aggravating and requires us to spam-left-click while sweeping our reticule across a target in order to actually grab it. I've now got a 'spam left click' macro mapped onto my mouse just so I can adequately perform Undertow grabs.
  • The 'slowdown of movement' for the tentacles from Tentacle Swarm are a step in the right direction, but only a half step. You need to just halt the tentacle movement, and have them behave as if they are 'constricting' their target victims. Given the fact that this is how a giant squid actually kills is victims while underwater and not by aimless flailing and smashing, it seems more logical and 'thematically accurate' to make this change and finally alleviate a ton of targeting aggravation.
  • Unless I have my sound levels for Warframe extremely loud in comparison to their usual levels, I hear absolutely no audio prompt for the charging of Tempest Barrage or Tentacle Swarm.

I'm seeing some quality of live improvements being used to disguise a metric truck load of nerfs to Hydroid, and it makes me sad. Take away the larger energy pool, take away the increased armor and 'smattering' of shielding increases... give me my RANGE back and take away these stupid charging NERFS.

 

Oh also, we can STILL get stomped out of Undertow by Infested Mutalist MOAs and similar unit attacks.

Edited by Vaygrim
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Raxekem

Raxekem

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DE I like the way your looking at hydroid. I feel this could make hydroid a pretty decent choice when going for longer runs. There are still a few things lacking in my oppinion. Fist off with the new rework Undertow's range has been cut painfully. In order to make our ocean dweller better with the new undertow, range is key. Also While tentacle swarm outside of Undertow lacks damage it functions as it should (minus the rediculous casting time), however I feel like the tentacles have the damage needed in undertow but the don't have the spawn under enemy effect it has out of undertow. I don''t mind nerfs or buffs of any kind but with the direction you guys are taking hydroid making him a large range swimming pool of death is any endless survival group's dream. I hope you take another look at these things. I'm sure alot of hydroid players will see that a few tweaks and changes will make the difference between this warframe sinking to the bottom of the ocean forgotten in time and rising up to the shore surging to change the tides of battle.

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Protomorph

Protomorph

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I'm not seeing where the stealth nerfs to Hydroids Undertow and Tentacle Swarm were reverted. Did I miss it, or is DE just keeping those stealth nerfs?

Just so we're clear, if you want to fix Hydroid the first thing to do is revert the multiple stealth nerfs that were implemented in his "revisit". Doesn't really matter if other players can shoot enemies in Undertow when the ability has been nerfed into uselessness. It wasn't good to begin with, and neither was Tentacle Swarm.

I can't even begin to comprehend the thought process behind this, or why anyone would think it's a good idea.

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Xyhon

Xyhon

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Posted
1 minute ago, Raxekem said:

DE I like the way your looking at hydroid. I feel this could make hydroid a pretty decent choice when going for longer runs. There are still a few things lacking in my oppinion. Fist off with the new rework Undertow's range has been cut painfully. In order to make our ocean dweller better with the new undertow, range is key. Also While tentacle swarm outside of Undertow lacks damage it functions as it should (minus the rediculous casting time), however I feel like the tentacles have the damage needed in undertow but the don't have the spawn under enemy effect it has out of undertow. I don''t mind nerfs or buffs of any kind but with the direction you guys are taking hydroid making him a large range swimming pool of death is any endless survival group's dream. I hope you take another look at these things. I'm sure alot of hydroid players will see that a few tweaks and changes will make the difference between this warframe sinking to the bottom of the ocean forgotten in time and rising up to the shore surging to change the tides of battle.

TBH you can't rely on Undertow in high tier missions, because Nulls/eximuses will just chew you. And spit out only bones. Reviving a frame by calling it "active to play" and shoving up our throats only skill which is stationary with limited movement, is not going together very well in theme.

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Pyus

Pyus

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Posted (edited)

There is alot of attention being given to undertow, however Tentacle Swarm should be his main focus. I'll keep repeating this, but Tentacle Swarm should be a toggle, and have the same damage + %HP buff that undertow has, based on how long the tentacle swings them around. 

This is the second pass of changes, and nothing feels right yet. I don't want to sit in a 6m radius puddle and drown a hand full of mobs. Perhaps if charged Tswarm pulled all mobs in range into the puddle that might be something. 

Just not feeling good about this rework at all. 

Edited by Pyus
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Darkvramp

Darkvramp

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Just now, Cebian said:

Puddle pirate is now somewhat usable damage wise, looks like all the rage on social media and youtube did its job :D

some what usable is not usable, not in warframe when we have frames that can do his job, for cheaper, more effectively, and do more besides that. F this rework. he needs MORE than QolL changes.

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Raxekem

Raxekem

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1 minute ago, Xyhon said:

TBH you can't rely on Undertow in high tier missions, because Nulls/eximuses will just chew you. And spit out only bones. Reviving a frame by calling it "active to play" and shoving up our throats only skill which is stationary with limited movement, is not going together very well in theme.

Depends on your comp really. I'm sure there are ways to use undertow (if buffed to a sufficient amound of range can be useful to lock down enemies for your team to shoot.

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Cebian

Cebian

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True, but give it time, so far they've been tweaking his rework for the better (slow though it is) but after a few more tweaks, lets hope the end result is something that would make Hydroid more than just that frame you carry for a polymer farm along with nekros because that seems to be all he's good for,

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leadwolf1

leadwolf1

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I am not even talking about 2,3, and 4th abilities as of yet they have to fix the rng and make better targeting on his first ability, they said they did I really do not see it , in my first report when this started I guess I got lucky with the few casts to test it. IF not then be adult and say we are leaving the first ability as is, this way no time is wasted even discussing anything about it. that that is the fun with the ability, as Forest Gump said , you never know what you are going to get. then we can concentrate on the others mainly his 2 have not heard nothing about that as of yet?

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BornWithTeeth

BornWithTeeth

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7 minutes ago, Cebian said:

Puddle pirate is now somewhat usable damage wise, looks like all the rage on social media and youtube did its job :D

Nope.

 

Look again at the damage change to Undertow. They changed its damage type to Impact. So, yes, they made it scaling in terms of its base numbers, while changing it away from being finisher damage, the kind of damage which innately bypasses armour scaling anyway.

 

Unless they've made the scaling % damage have a huge ratio, this is actually a nerf to Hydroid's damage output, see?

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Fluffysbeans

Fluffysbeans

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Posted

What I'm seeing here is some cool stuff and some not cool stuff.

Tennogen? On point selections.
PBR update? Boy, yes.
Damage scaling off of enemy level? Nice!
Allies can shoot into the puddle? Sweet.
Slower grabby tentacles? Pretty cool.


But instead of letting us just absorb items into the puddle, we now get our sentinels disabled so we won't be reminded that we still can't pick stuff up? Boooo.

But yeah, Hydroid's gettin there, he's almost a full power. I still don't think his range or damage are the real issues. He still needs a tweak to Pilfering Swarm that makes the droprate boost if enemies die under the effects of Swarm instead of only boosting if they're directly killed by it, but other than that, he's really close to completion as a utility frame. I'm just hoping you guys don't give in and make him just another bland press(and hold?)-a-button-to-win frame, last thing we need is a water Ember.

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