Hydroid Nerfs

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

14 minutes ago, Eureka.seveN said:

Definitely, you can also buy berries at your local supermarket and keep them out for 45 mins. Add a but of syrup and you can create a fruity spin to your pancakes. It works even better with frozen ones

You can also use granulated sugar or honey to "juice" your fruit.  I usually let it sit with the sugar/honey for at least 15 minutes, but I find 30 minutes works better for me.

[Aldarys_]

I am sincerely worried about "nerf" posters.

Please consider yoga, painting, music or any other form of intellectual stimulation and/or relaxation.

Asking for a nerf on a coop/PvE game.  The Grineers are behind it, no doubts.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Sypherys

[(PSN)robotwars7]

for the love of god.. it's genuinely getting harder each time to not go on a rant when people nerf post.

Hydroid is good now, he doesn't need a nerf. you are wrong. stop asking for nerfs.

 

[Lithaleon]

20 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

This is probably going to get criticism mostly because Consoles haven't gotten this yet and I haven't tested it. From what I've seen however, it can safely say that Hydroid is in an overpowered state. I would like to suggest some little Nerfs because I feel like Hydroid needs the buffs to be popular:

First Option would be to directly nerf the damage so that it doesn't increase as fast as it does. It would make it slower and pretty much turn the ability into a slash Proc. I wouldn't advise just nerfing the damage however because it changes almost nothing. I feel like this would just be a nerf that no one would care about.

Second Option is to limit Hydroid's pull range . It would really make Hydroid's puddle just a bit worse enough to be playable. This is so he can't just nuke the room with just the puddle and make killing enemies too easy. I would suggest this change more than the first change and it would make him much better without making him unusable. It's impactful enough to make Hydroid more active.

Third Option is the nerf that I would see as the most fit. He would get increased cost based on how long he is in puddle form when enemies are in the puddle. The enemy or enemies that take the most damage will affect the cost of the ability. When the enemy dies, the cost will go back down to whomever is taking the most damage. Overall, it would make it more complicated but it would make him less likely to nuke the room and it will help him balance between when to be in the puddle and when not to be in the puddle. 

No. Noooooooooo. Man, the damage is Impact. Impact is bad against everything except shields. Impact gives a bit of CC but Undertow is already CC so no benefit from that. An early Hydroid player will not have access to armor stripping so easily. So the damage scale will be appropriate. A later hydroid player will, so the progression of the game scales his power naturally. But at the end of the day, a full build on excal for Chromatic blade can kill much more effectively, and much faster as he can sprint around like a madman while doing it. I could agree with a slight nerf to his armor stripping augment, so that he might not be able to pull off the same damage potential solo, but the damage should remain the same. People are calling his ability to strip armor and puddle them to death "the most powerful ability of warframe" but in reality, it just scales the best. This is what scaling looks like. We need more of this on other warframes. Hydroid should become the standard, and then other warframes, as well as the enemies, should be brought to his level. But that's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong. If I am, please tell me why :D

Edited August 18, 2017 by CasualtyofLove
Typo- pull off*

[Maqabir]

Having heard about how boring and OP Hydroid was I was worried I'd dislike his new playstyle.

I rarely found myself using Undertow to mass-kill high level enemies, the playstyle that worked for me was much more mobile and only using Undertow to keep enemies down and stripping their armour before killing them with melee finishers or shotgun fire.

He may feel OP in the simulacrum where the enemies are grouped together and your attention isn't needed elsewhere, but then again I've played Mag for so long his Undertow just feels like a less spammable Magnetize.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

25 minutes ago, CasualtyofLove said:

No. Noooooooooo. Man, the damage is Impact. Impact is bad against everything except shields. Impact gives a bit of CC but Undertow is already CC so no benefit from that. An early Hydroid player will not have access to armor stripping so easily. So the damage scale will be appropriate. A later hydroid player will, so the progression of the game scales his power naturally. But at the end of the day, a full build on excal for Chromatic blade can kill much more effectively, and much faster as he can sprint around like a madman while doing it. I could agree with a slight nerf to his armor stripping augment, so that he might not be able to pull off the same damage potential solo, but the damage should remain the same. People are calling his ability to strip armor and puddle them to death "the most powerful ability of warframe" but in reality, it just scales the best. This is what scaling looks like. We need more of this on other warframes. Hydroid should become the standard, and then other warframes, as well as the enemies, should be brought to his level. But that's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong. If I am, please tell me why :D

That's why I expect Excalibur to be nerfed. I actually started this thread because Tactical Potato's Video of how he will nerfed. I made the thread for the sole purpose of seeing just how popular and how useful Hydroid can be. I haven't even gotten to use this power creep but Power creep is power creep. I expect Hydroid to be more fun rather than just buffs to his puddle. I feel like he should be getting a nerf some time before the Prime Access mostly due to how ridiculous he is right now and how it might or might not be intentional. Plus, I know Mag can output more damage with enough duration and strength. Still, Hydroid isn't supposed to do this according to DESteve but its popularity might change their mind.

Edited August 18, 2017 by (PS4)godlysparta

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

You honestly can't really spam the Undertow/Corroding Barrage combo in a real gameplay situation on any given map, set aside for maybe Defense or Interception. The range of the puddle is quite small, you need to spend energy to lassle enemies into your puddle or wait for them to fall in it, and you'll have to spend more energy if you're moving or charging for Corroding Barrage. You can't collect energy orbs while you're in Undertow, and I believe it's a Toggle ability meaning it can't be affected by Trinity's EV.

I mean, if someone else is nearby you and they proc their Arcane Energize, that's how you can regen energy heftly while in Undertow. That's situational at best.

Given the range, movement, and energy economy limitations this ability has, Undertow/Corroding Barrage is a localized zone-centric ability that scales and is preferrably used against a Heavies-focused scenarios on the map. I think it's fine as it is, even with the recent buffs.

[Jobistober]

1 hour ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

That's why I expect Excalibur to be nerfed. I actually started this thread because Tactical Potato's Video of how he will nerfed. I made the thread for the sole purpose of seeing just how popular and how useful Hydroid can be. I haven't even gotten to use this power creep but Power creep is power creep. I expect Hydroid to be more fun rather than just buffs to his puddle. I feel like he should be getting a nerf some time before the Prime Access mostly due to how ridiculous he is right now and how it might or might not be intentional. Plus, I know Mag can output more damage with enough duration and strength. Still, Hydroid isn't supposed to do this according to DESteve but its popularity might change their mind.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

8 minutes ago, Jobistober said:

GET ME PHOTOS OF  valkyr

Playing  valkyr like

Edited August 18, 2017 by Fluff-E-Kitty

[(PSN)TertulSee]

5 hours ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

GET ME PHOTOS OF  valkyr

Playing  valkyr like

I don't understand this anymore. Well glad to see Hydroid won't get nerfed. Still think he's OP but I think it may be manageable.

[(PSN)Nefrai]

Hydroid was a waste of space used for tentacle jokes, and now he's finally useful...don't even bring up nerfing already. Good lord, people. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

The intended damage he does is more than fair.  The only way to get that insane melting possibility is if you use corrosive barrage to strip the armor.

non armored enemies will not take those huge chunks of damage.

besides his puddles range is small as is.  and he already expends energy to pull in more targets.

he's not op.  if you wana see something OP look at resonanting quake banshee.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

8 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

That's why I expect Excalibur to be nerfed. I actually started this thread because Tactical Potato's Video of how he will nerfed. I made the thread for the sole purpose of seeing just how popular and how useful Hydroid can be. I haven't even gotten to use this power creep but Power creep is power creep. I expect Hydroid to be more fun rather than just buffs to his puddle. I feel like he should be getting a nerf some time before the Prime Access mostly due to how ridiculous he is right now and how it might or might not be intentional. Plus, I know Mag can output more damage with enough duration and strength. Still, Hydroid isn't supposed to do this according to DESteve but its popularity might change their mind.

excal already was nerfed.  what he does now is 100% fine with DE.

And actually power strength only effects the damage the target takes.  the DOT and explosion of mag's magnetize is 100% take from the weapon.  and due to the way the bubble works in that regard status procs don't effect either of those as well.  Nor crit.  it's entirely how much DPS a weapon outputs.  (hitscan weapons with bubble only count the first projectile.  so multishot doesn't matter.  and only one pellet of a shotgun spread counts.  But multishot on projectile weapons do count.)

They will most likely only change the unintended interaction if the community thinks it needs to be changed.  he can't nuke rooms with it.  and the current community perspective is either "yes I love all of the hydroid changes please keep them!"  or "I don't care about the damage buffs because hydroid got focus on his puddle.  we didn't want this."

So I really doubt the damage interaction will be changed.  since it's a very specific setup and it's not even room clear capable.

[(XBOX)BIGBELLY1980]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)Nefrai said:

Hydroid was a waste of space used for tentacle jokes, and now he's finally useful...don't even bring up nerfing already. Good lord, people. 

He's still great for Tentacle jokes too

 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)BIGBELLY1980 said:

He's still great for Tentacle jokes too

 

Tentacle jokes and a big head. Bam!

[TheGrimCorsair]

On 8/17/2017 at 11:17 AM, aligatorno said:

And you actually think that he;ll get to compete with actual DPS frames? The answer is no. 

1. He needs to remove armor  to get efficient damage on Grineer. Which means that he has to use two abilities to get few kills, or he needs in some way to remove armor before.  In order to do the damage, you have to check some conditions first, which a lot of other frames do not. 

2. Ancient Disruptors and Ancient Healers shut him down hard. You won't be doing too much with a Disruptor around, the enemies will get out of you puddle almost immedietely. 

3. His puddle range is really small, his pull range is not that great either. It costs 5 energy per pull at base efficiency, unless you are running max efficiency, pulling enemies is quite costly because it adds up since you can't recover energy unless you get lucky and enemies killed drop an energy ball. 

4. His movement is really slow in it, moving with Tidal Surge costs a ton of energy because you pay both the energy cost for TS and the energy cost for the movement. Your energy will go down hard unless, again, you are running max efficiency. 

 

This ability is powerful, yes, but also very limited and not capable of competing with actual DPS frames.

Mesa, yes, can be shot at, but she also has a flat out 95% damage reduction and stun for melee ones with her 2 and 3. She has a much higher kill rate and really high range, she can snipe from the other side of the map. Hydroid can't do that. 

Ash can become invisible for rather low cost and can oneshot any enemy in the game that is open to finishers and that is not a boss or jugg. Once he removes armor with little to no cost, he can oneshot the enemies with a proper weapon. Again, much faster than Hydroid. 

These two have to use multiple abilities as well to cover all their bases, but not to kill like Hydroid has to. 

 

[Mostly for the benefit of the OP]

1. You only need your 1 (with Corrosive Barrage)+2 and you'll rip through Grineer like they're tissue paper without any real effort with a decently modded weapon.

2. Ancient Healers cause problems as they redirect the impacts from your 1 and 2 to themselves. They don't stop you from puddling enemies and don't stop your 4 from doing its thing. Also sweeping through a crowd with your 2 will pull all the ancients out of it and drop them at your feet.

Other than damage reduction from your abilities, Disruptors have no appreciable effect as none of your CC abilities attach to enemies. It won't reduce how long your tentacles hold enemies, how long you can puddle them, or how frequently you can knock them down. Aside from getting your energy drained if you take damage from them or enemies under their aura, they don't really have much of an appreciable effect on any of your abilities.

3. Basically. Hydroid always wants duration, efficiency and range in spades. Power Strength is just not that useful, even with the ability to drown enemies with the puddle. More useful to quickly group a bunch of enemies up where you are, hit 'em with Barrage then pop out and start tearing them to pieces with an AoE weapon or Condition Overload melee weapon. (I prefer Mios, ymmv).

4. Basically why you use it as described in 3.

 

Camping in puddle is wasting time and not helping the team. Nor are you likely killing much of anything that way. Hydroid at his strongest is a fast moving CC'er able to project CC to anywhere in LOS while having two on demand invulnerability powers that allow him to quickly group up enemies to kill with his weapons (or allies, but you should keep an eye out towards self-sufficiency). The only things that appreciably affects his CC are Ancient Healers (which are necessary to even make the Infestation a threat in the first place) and Nullifiers (whose bubbles you can pummel as suppress with your 1 anyways). The two main things that have changed since the rework started (and it's not his viability, that changed when they made his 1 scale with range modes while also being off-hand and recastable) is that his 3 is now serves a role in his kit (aside from bathroom break/need to type mode) and the tentacles from his 4 actually effectively attack and CC enemies rather than flailing about randomly with poor collision.

 

As for increasing power consumption over time in puddle mode or other nerfs to it, it's not not necessary IMO, OP, as you don't really gain enough in puddle mode to need it. You can't get around that efficiently, you really aren't that effective a killer with it alone, and you have no way of gathering power while actually in puddle form as you can't pickup orbs (to say nothing of not benefitting from Harrrow or Trinity's abilities).

[TrinityTheTenno]

Hes fine, still no where near as OP as RQ banshee, Mesas Peacemaker, Excals EB, they all can easily outperform hydroid and make him useless, even in his current state.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

5 hours ago, TrinityTheTenno said:

Hes fine, still no where near as OP as RQ banshee, Mesas Peacemaker, Excals EB, they all can easily outperform hydroid and make him useless, even in his current state.

This was posted 2 months ago before he got Reworked. Please don’t start this thread up again.

[(PSN)Radehx]

No, his damage is fine because it's limited to a very tight range. If you don't like it, nerf Equinox, Saryn, Banshee and all the other frames that outperform him with nuking first. Of course that would be stupid too.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

Read said above post. Please stop. Some mod, please lock this.