Ember's Deluxe Skin Feedback

[Hypernaut1]

20 minutes ago, Anthraxicus said:

Dismissing people who purchaced the skin for ulterior motives? Nonsense. Just browse the forums and you see lots of people who purchased the skin for no reason whatsover other than they had platinum and nothing else to spend on.
What I have yet to see is people who purchased the skin because they loved it the way it is. 

Like I said above, they have to wonder how much they've lost (or haven't made) by refusing to release the other skin. And for that, there are lots of factors we need to consider. They paid for the previous work, which also took a lot of time, and was largely well received by the community which got hyped by it. Then they scraped the whole thing and spent more time and money on the new skin, which was largely poorly received by the community (devstream should have been a good enough indication). So, with all the evidence and the money they already objectively lost, it seems they could be selling a lot more. Even if they do consider this skin a success, there is plenty enough evidence that the other one would blow this one out of the water.  

You live in a fantasy world. "plenty of evidence"? What evidence? Forums hype things they end up hating, and rage on things they end up using ALL OF THE TIME. That's far from evidence. Lol. 

I'mnot dismissing people that bought it despite not liking it, its ridiculous to jump to the conclusion that most people actually using it don't like it. It sounds like something you're telling yourself to feel justified. It's an optional skin. I'm pretty sure most people that don't like it choose not to buy it, color it and equip it... That's just how these things work.

If they wanted to appeal to the masses to make sales, it wouldn't be that hard. DE has never been about that though. They could easily release dragon samurai warrior bad-a** skins/frames or skimpy sexy female warrior skins to make tons of easily garnered sales. It's really not that hard to make something edgy and cool and popular, but that's not Warframes style. 

You can't objectively lose sales you never had. What does that even mean? 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Anthraxicus]

6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You live in a fantasy world. "plenty of evidence"? What evidence? Forums hype things they end up hating, and rage on things they end up using ALL OF THE TIME. That's far from evidence. Lol. 

Such as?

Quote

I'mnot dismissing people that bought it despite not liking it, its ridiculous to jump to the conclusion that most people actually using it don't like it. It sounds like something you're telling yourself to feel justified. It's an optional skin. I'm pretty sure most people that don't like it choose not to buy it, color it and equip it... That's just how these things work.

You know what is even more ridiculous? Put words on my mouth. Trying to make as if I said something which I didn't.

 

Quote

If they wanted to appeal to the masses to make sales, it wouldn't be that hard. DE has never been about that though. They could easily release dragon samurai warrior bad-a** skins/frames or skimpy sexy female warrior skins to make tons of easily garnered sales. It's really not that hard to make something edgy and cool and popular, but that's not Warframes style. 

 

The problem here is that the other skin is Warframe style. It fits Warframe better than the brazillian carnival skin

Spoiler

This would fit Warframe Ember style apparently. Hint for all tennogen.

Spoiler

 

Quote

You can't objectively lose sales you never had. What does that even mean?

lol

What nonsense is that? Everytime you don't release a product, postpone it or even scrap the whole thing and start again with something worse, you are losing sales. That should be common sense, but apparently it is not.

[MirageKnight]

4 hours ago, Anthraxicus said:

It doesn't seem interesting or creative, because Ember was already considered by all a bird. Going from a rooster with a mohawk to a peacock with an even bigger and uglier mohawk wasn't the most interesting and creative move I've seen. Going from bird themed skin to a inferno themed one would be interesting. And notice that DE wanted to put a mohawk on the other skin as well, which people didn't like because it wasn't interesting or creative. And for a deluxe skin, reasonably well executed doesn't cut it. 

Oh I agree on all those point, but honestly that's a matter of personal taste really. And yes, I do feel that DE dropped the ball badly on this deluxe skin release - but again, that's just my opinion and it is just an opinion. That said, it seems to be an opinion shared by at least a good number of people and that should say something...

 

4 hours ago, Anthraxicus said:

And I wouldn't say we are allowed the privilege of playing the game. This is a business after all and any business should be thankful for the privilege of having customers. The moment they think their customers are a bunch of idiots who should swallow everyone nonsense throw at them, something is wrong.
The thing is: even if they do find people crazy enough to buy this skin, they should ask themselves how much money they are losing for not going with the other one

I know this is a business and they should be grateful that several million registered losers players have picked up this game and put money into it. As I implied earlier, it would be very foolish of DE to blow off or ignore the feedback of even a few thousand people. It's still their game and the EULA grants us permission to install and play their game under expressly defined conditions. If they want to be fools and risk losing money, they're free to be as ignorant, inflexible, stubborn, and close-minded as they want to be. Not a great idea to be sure, but oh well...

I definitely agree that going with Ignus' design would have been the smarter and far more profitable decision, but hey, they needed to mollify someone's precious ego. Namely Mynki's. Can you imagine his reaction if Ignus' design made it in-game? That would have been immensely galling...

[Terrornaut]

13 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

I definitely agree that going with Ignus' design would have been the smarter and far more profitable decision, but hey, they needed to mollify someone's precious ego. Namely Mynki's. Can you imagine his reaction if Ignus' design made it in-game? That would have been immensely galling...

There were likely contractual problems of putting out content of a terminated employee, on top of the ethical questionable mess they'd be surrounded with for using a terminated artist's content (unless they actually came out and said yeah we fired this guy but we're going to give him royalties or pay him once).  From Ignusdei's apology on his DA, I get the idea he lost it/composure and butted heads hard.  Whether he was justified and the art director or whoever he was working with was actually being ridiculous and worth fighting, I'll never know. Can't make that judgement, or any, really.

Also since someone mentioned brazilian carnival Ember I slightly like the verm skin now. I am so easily influenced when its things I like sometimes xD
I also didn't think about putting different helmet on it. I'd probably just put arcane phoenix on it because its my favorite helm and the stat boost (which, I'm not even sure if its really doing anything still?).  Still, forma and gun taters are higher priority for me to spend plat on and I've spent silly money on cosmetics in games (well not really I've never had anything approaching silly money).

I've definitely seen plenty of non Ember mains with it (I usually ask if I see another Ember, as an Ember main).  Its out there.  Maybe if I stare at it in the arsenal it'll grow on me.

[DeltaPangaea]

20 minutes ago, Terrornaut said:

There were likely contractual problems of putting out content of a terminated employee, on top of the ethical questionable mess they'd be surrounded with for using a terminated artist's content (unless they actually came out and said yeah we fired this guy but we're going to give him royalties or pay him once).  From Ignusdei's apology on his DA, I get the idea he lost it/composure and butted heads hard.  Whether he was justified and the art director or whoever he was working with was actually being ridiculous and worth fighting, I'll never know. Can't make that judgement, or any, really.

Ignus wasn't actually an employee, he was commissioned for it. They paid him for it even, the transaction was completed and they legally own the design. And as far as I'm aware, things like the Mag skin were released after this debacle despite also being done by Ignus. It's just the Ember one that someone on the art team has gotten their bloomers in a bunch over.

[Anthraxicus]

5 hours ago, Terrornaut said:

There were likely contractual problems of putting out content of a terminated employee, on top of the ethical questionable mess they'd be surrounded with for using a terminated artist's content (unless they actually came out and said yeah we fired this guy but we're going to give him royalties or pay him once).  From Ignusdei's apology on his DA, I get the idea he lost it/composure and butted heads hard.  Whether he was justified and the art director or whoever he was working with was actually being ridiculous and worth fighting, I'll never know. Can't make that judgement, or any, really.
 

1 - Ignus delivered the design before he was let go.

2 - DE owns the design and could have released it without problems, as they did with others, such as Mag's deluxe skin

3 - Ignus hoped to see the skin in the game, hopefully without the mohawk

4 - If DE didn't release it, Ignus even suggested some player would use it as Tennogen, though he believed it wouldn't be possible because Tennogen is limited in what it can be done.

So, with all the excuses debunked, the only possible explanation left is that someone at DE was butthurt and in need of a safe space.

[MirageKnight]

9 hours ago, Terrornaut said:

There were likely contractual problems of putting out content of a terminated employee, on top of the ethical questionable mess they'd be surrounded with for using a terminated artist's content (unless they actually came out and said yeah we fired this guy but we're going to give him royalties or pay him once).  From Ignusdei's apology on his DA, I get the idea he lost it/composure and butted heads hard.  Whether he was justified and the art director or whoever he was working with was actually being ridiculous and worth fighting, I'll never know. Can't make that judgement, or any, really.

Just to clarify, Ignus was a freelancer. DE paid him, as an outside source, to come up with new / alternate designs. Any and all drawings he submitted to DE became their property to do with as they saw fit. They didn't have any problems releasing the Mag Deluxe skin, and that was Ignus' design as well.

With regard to events that led to Ignus being let go: There was definitely a difference of opinion with regard to Ember Deluxe when it was still in the concept art phase, with Mynki insisting that Ignus make some revisions that Ignus (and the community as well) felt didn't work well. Mynki obviously put his foot down (and more than likely not in a very diplomatic manner either), Ignus regrettably lost his cool, and there we have it.

[Terrornaut]

Well then people, I have no idea.  Spaghetti.

Good info though.

[NightmareT12]

On 19/11/2017 at 5:48 PM, MirageKnight said:

Oh I agree on all those point, but honestly that's a matter of personal taste really. And yes, I do feel that DE dropped the ball badly on this deluxe skin release - but again, that's just my opinion and it is just an opinion. That said, it seems to be an opinion shared by at least a good number of people and that should say something...

 

I know this is a business and they should be grateful that several million registered losers players have picked up this game and put money into it. As I implied earlier, it would be very foolish of DE to blow off or ignore the feedback of even a few thousand people. It's still their game and the EULA grants us permission to install and play their game under expressly defined conditions. If they want to be fools and risk losing money, they're free to be as ignorant, inflexible, stubborn, and close-minded as they want to be. Not a great idea to be sure, but oh well...

I definitely agree that going with Ignus' design would have been the smarter and far more profitable decision, but hey, they needed to mollify someone's precious ego. Namely Mynki's. Can you imagine his reaction if Ignus' design made it in-game? That would have been immensely galling...

You seem to take a lot of license over issues we have a frictional knowledge of, to be honest. And since Mynki hasn't been the Art director for... 8 months already? I'm pretty sure the issue doesn't lie in there alone. I'm pretty sure Geoff must have approved this design, because it certainly has been a while before they even showed anything about it.
 

9 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Just to clarify, Ignus was a freelancer. DE paid him, as an outside source, to come up with new / alternate designs. Any and all drawings he submitted to DE became their property to do with as they saw fit. They didn't have any problems releasing the Mag Deluxe skin, and that was Ignus' design as well.

With regard to events that led to Ignus being let go: There was definitely a difference of opinion with regard to Ember Deluxe when it was still in the concept art phase, with Mynki insisting that Ignus make some revisions that Ignus (and the community as well) felt didn't work well. Mynki obviously put his foot down (and more than likely not in a very diplomatic manner either), Ignus regrettably lost his cool, and there we have it.

I explicitly recall from Ignus' thread that he sent in his final concept (the one he posted in his own thread) and from there on Mynki tweaked it to his liking, which was what was shown on Devstream, and that he was not notified back. As far as I am aware that's how it's worked for everything else -- you can pretty much see this on Sean Bigham's ArtStation for various stuff (ie: Liset Prime). And I'm pretty sure that's how it works still, there's a series of concepts made, they get sent in, Geoff sends back some feedback, they get tweaked, another round comes in, Geoff chooses and then tweaks it if needed to make the proper final item that's approved.

Edited November 21, 2017 by NightmareT12

[DatDarkOne]

5 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

And I'm pretty sure that's how it works still, there's a series of concepts made, they get sent in, Geoff sends back some feedback, they get tweaked, another round comes in, Geoff chooses and then tweaks it if needed to make the proper final item that's approved.

That's usually how it works in most places and/or has worked over the centuries.  The process really hasn't changed that much, but only gotten faster.  Of course there are exceptions.  :D

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

-snip-

I'll just say that Ignus happens to be a friend of mine and I'm privy to far more details than has been made public. He's been very honest and straightforward with me, even being critical of himself. There are naturally two sides to this story and while Ignus failed to handle the situation as well as he could have, neither did Mynki or Ignus' other contact at DE. For reasons of confidentiality and at Ignus' request, I'm leaving the discussion at that.

Take this however you like, but the info I have access to grants me a far better understanding of the situation than any of you.

As far as the reason behind DE's decision to scrap Mynki's altered design and go with a new one is concerned, yes, that's my stated opinion but one that's formed based on what I know about DE and what kind of clout Mynki had there (he did work there for some time previously). I'm highly certain that they did it strictly to avoid any added drama from Mynki and / or Ignus.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, MirageKnight said:

I'm highly certain that they did it strictly to avoid any added drama from Mynki and / or Ignus.

This is my honest thought on it as well.  I know I've done enough drama avoidance to recognize the signs.  :D

[Anthraxicus]

52 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

I'll just say that Ignus happens to be a friend of mine and I'm privy to far more details than has been made public. He's been very honest and straightforward with me, even being critical of himself. There are naturally two sides to this story and while Ignus failed to handle the situation as well as he could have, neither did Mynki or Ignus' other contact at DE. For reasons of confidentiality and at Ignus' request, I'm leaving the discussion at that.

Take this however you like, but the info I have access to grants me a far better understanding of the situation than any of you.

As far as the reason behind DE's decision to scrap Mynki's altered design and go with a new one is concerned, yes, that's my stated opinion but one that's formed based on what I know about DE and what kind of clout Mynki had there (he did work there for some time previously). I'm highly certain that they did it strictly to avoid any added drama from Mynki and / or Ignus.

Well, I picked my info from himself at his deviantart page. I am sure that talking to the guy directly is even more reliable, but what we know comes from himself.

 

As for avoiding drama, that is probably the reason. Rebecca said in a devstream that they didn't use it because they couldn't, and that they would use if they could, implying there was some legal stuff preventing it. Of course, that was not the case. They didn't go with Ignus' skin because they didn't want it, which is very, very different from can't use it.

[Berzerkir]

As I remember someone mentioning earlier, while the reactions in these 49 pages range between coherent, zealous, and overdramatic, the consensus I am seeing is that DE heelturned on a concept and made a bland skin that does nothing different mesh-wise and lacks a noticeable deviance from her basic skin. The annoyance of yet another mohawk and lack of any prominent fire simply adds to the issue. We got more of the same instead of innovation and this is further compounded by the spoiling of the original concept and the lack of taking ANY input from the playerbase. This was just kinda dropped into the game with the only reason being that ember has waited too long for a deluxe, so lets half-ash one out real quick after our artists got into a tiff.

[DeltaPangaea]

3 hours ago, Berzerkir said:

so lets half-ash one out real quick after our artists got into a tiff.

Actually I think you'll find it's more of a half-Zephyr.

[StreamBonker]

Just a quick reminder that there have been 18 pages of constructive feedback since DE's first and last reply on the subject. 

At this point, I am not even sure they are reading our feedback that we've put considerable effort and attention into making constructive, much less take anything we have said into consideration. 

Frankly, the lack of any reply or acknowledgement at our points is extremely disheartening and has to some extent shaken my faith in DE. 

Not because of the skin they released, but because all they did towards interacting with us and our opinions was admonish us while not acknowledging any feedback and dismissing it through generalising all feedback as rude, hiding behind Tennogen and "don't like it, don't buy it". 

You asked us to be respectful and constructive in our criticism. We have been. 

Where is your reply, DE? 

Edited November 22, 2017 by StreamBonker
Fixed a typo or two

[T40Productions]

16 hours ago, Berzerkir said:

As I remember someone mentioning earlier, while the reactions in these 49 pages range between coherent, zealous, and overdramatic, the consensus I am seeing is that DE heelturned on a concept and made a bland skin that does nothing different mesh-wise and lacks a noticeable deviance from her basic skin.

On the contrary, it's not in the slightest a bland skin. A bland skin (from how I understand it) would mean that there would be no moving parts or anything significant about the skin, which is not the case. It's a very dynamic skin, but it's to the point where it's TOO dynamic. The skin has so much going on that it's hard for most to find something that stands out to them, and the helmet does not help out in the slightest.

 

13 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Actually I think you'll find it's more of a half-Zephyr.

S/O to this comment, too

[Hypernaut1]

On 11/21/2017 at 11:26 PM, StreamBonker said:

Just a quick reminder that there have been 18 pages of constructive feedback since DE's first and last reply on the subject. 

At this point, I am not even sure they are reading our feedback that we've put considerable effort and attention into making constructive, much less take anything we have said into consideration. 

Frankly, the lack of any reply or acknowledgement at our points is extremely disheartening and has to some extent shaken my faith in DE. 

Not because of the skin they released, but because all they did towards interacting with us and our opinions was admonish us while not acknowledging any feedback and dismissing it through generalising all feedback as rude, hiding behind Tennogen and "don't like it, don't buy it". 

You asked us to be respectful and constructive in our criticism. We have been. 

Where is your reply, DE? 

"Don't like it, don't buy it" is really all they need to say. The artist don't need to explain their every design choice. If players don't like it, then they won't buy it. It's an optional skin. Simple as that.

If people are buying it, as I've seen, then there is nothing to discuss. Vote with your wallet. No artist wants to hear a bunch of nitpicks over every detail, especially when they probably have tons of other work to do. The Ember skin is finished. The artist have probably long moved on... Hence.... If you don't like it, don't buy it. 

[StreamBonker]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

"Don't like it, don't buy it" is really all they need to say. The artist don't need to explain their every design choice. If players don't like it, then they won't buy it. It's an optional skin. Simple as that.

If people are buying it, as I've seen, then there is nothing to discuss. Vote with your wallet. No artist wants to hear a bunch of nitpicks over every detail, especially when they probably have tons of other work to do. The Ember skin is finished. The artist have probably long moved on... Hence.... If you don't like it, don't buy it. 

DE has stated that "If you don't like it, just buy a tennogen one", disregarding the fact that no tennogen skin can change the silhouette of a model. 

Disregarding all feedback because "The artist doesn't wanna hear a bunch of nitpicks, don't buy it if you don't want it" is frankly a cowardly move. DE has always shown an openness to feedback and the community's thoughts. So in this instance, flippantly throwing away all of the feedback coming their way is a weird and unexpected move.

Let me replace Ember with a Car and DE with a car company CEO. "Oh, you have a car you love and you wanna buy a newest model? We have shown you this AMAZING new model for it, but hey, we'll release a different one that a great deal of people will be unhappy with. Oh, you're unsatisfied with the new model of your car? Don't worry, you can NOT BUY IT! We wont release a new model but HEY! If you are on PC you can paint your existing one different colours! Sure it's more expensive but who cares! Don't worry about it! We're listening to all of your feedback!" And then the car company CEO never talks to you again despite you and many other people giving their feedback.

Pretty sure you'd be pissed that you can't upgrade your rickety old car to the brand new gorgeous shiny model you've been waiting for and the CEO giving you the option to upgrade to an option that disagrees with your aesthetic preferences; and when you tell them that you wanted the original updated model, to be disregarded, disrespected and ignored so. I don't know about you, but my faith in that company would be shaken a bit.

I understand that you may like the skin, even love it! That is your prerogative. But I'm sorry, your reply has added nothing to the conversation. It can all boil down to "Don't like it don't buy it! You tell 'em DE! And you lot stop bullying DE! Stop having opinions! Vote with your wallet!" All points made previously by people in many different ways and levels of eloquency.

Voting with my wallet happens when I choose to spend money to get Platinum. After that, I am trading a virtual currency for virtual things, in which case they have little sense of value to me, thus why I bought the Ember Deluxe skin. I wouldn't wear it even if I had to choose between that and Vanilla, yet I bought it purely cause I had very little else to spend plat on.

The issue would not be nearly as big as it is now, if there were multiple deluxe skins for each frame. But if we are taking the other deluxe models into consideration, Ember is never getting another Deluxe skin and the one she got is, in my humble opinion, not deserving of the "Deluxe" title. The only deluxe thing about it is the size of that Mohawk, like a deluxe middle finger pointing at the stars.

In conclusion all the people who dislike the current Ember model's aesthetics are stuck with it. Those people are not happy. Those people have every right to discuss and make their feelings known. DE and their artists are adults. They should be, and I believe them to are more than capable to deal with feedback and nitpicks from the community they get their paychecks from and a community they have listened to in the past.

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, StreamBonker said:

 

DE has stated that "If you don't like it, just buy a tennogen one", disregarding the fact that no tennogen skin can change the silhouette of a model. 

Disregarding all feedback because "The artist doesn't wanna hear a bunch of nitpicks, don't buy it if you don't want it" is frankly a cowardly move. DE has always shown an openness to feedback and the community's thoughts. So in this instance, flippantly throwing away all of the feedback coming their way is a weird and unexpected move.

Let me replace Ember with a Car and DE with a car company CEO. "Oh, you have a car you love and you wanna buy a newest model? We have shown you this AMAZING new model for it, but hey, we'll release a different one that a great deal of people will be unhappy with. Oh, you're unsatisfied with the new model of your car? Don't worry, you can NOT BUY IT! We wont release a new model but HEY! If you are on PC you can paint your existing one different colours! Sure it's more expensive but who cares! Don't worry about it! We're listening to all of your feedback!" And then the car company CEO never talks to you again despite you and many other people giving their feedback.

Pretty sure you'd be pissed that you can't upgrade your rickety old car to the brand new gorgeous shiny model you've been waiting for and the CEO giving you the option to upgrade to an option that disagrees with your aesthetic preferences; and when you tell them that you wanted the original updated model, to be disregarded, disrespected and ignored so. I don't know about you, but my faith in that company would be shaken a bit.

I understand that you may like the skin, even love it! That is your prerogative. But I'm sorry, your reply has added nothing to the conversation. It can all boil down to "Don't like it don't buy it! You tell 'em DE! And you lot stop bullying DE! Stop having opinions! Vote with your wallet!" All points made previously by people in many different ways and levels of eloquency.

Voting with my wallet happens when I choose to spend money to get Platinum. After that, I am trading a virtual currency for virtual things, in which case they have little sense of value to me, thus why I bought the Ember Deluxe skin. I wouldn't wear it even if I had to choose between that and Vanilla, yet I bought it purely cause I had very little else to spend plat on.

The issue would not be nearly as big as it is now, if there were multiple deluxe skins for each frame. But if we are taking the other deluxe models into consideration, Ember is never getting another Deluxe skin and the one she got is, in my humble opinion, not deserving of the "Deluxe" title. The only deluxe thing about it is the size of that Mohawk, like a deluxe middle finger pointing at the stars.

In conclusion all the people who dislike the current Ember model's aesthetics are stuck with it. Those people are not happy. Those people have every right to discuss and make their feelings known. DE and their artists are adults. They should be, and I believe them to are more than capable to deal with feedback and nitpicks from the community they get their paychecks from and a community they have listened to in the past.

again with this "people that are buying it hate it" excuse. If that's the case, that's even less of a reason for DE to care- because you'll buy it anyway. Which is a ridiculous premise to begin with. No one tells you to buy a cosmetic just because you have the plat. Not buying the skin would be far more effective than whining on forum. DE makes changes based on metrics, not just forum post. If the metrics show them people are buying, the majority speaks. You have yourself to blame. They aren't going to start letting fans dictate the style of the game either way. Its not a democracy. They may take what you want and like into consideration, but ultimately they are going to design the game their way- like they ALWAYS have. The client they need to please works in the studio, not the forums. 

If voting with your wallet isnt a good argument, then what is? 100 people upvoting a comment is meaningless if 1000s are buying and using the skin. It just further cements the idea of vocal minority/ silent majority. Why would DE cater to a vocal minority? the kind that would be hard to please anyway? They would much rather use that time, effort and energy into creating more content for fans that go with the flow, not the ones that will nitpick about feathers and froth at the mouth. 

a car would be the exact same deal. if they show a concept, then release something different, you have the SAME option of just not buying it. The company has their reasons for putting a certain model into production and they are past the point in trying to please people overly sensitive to the matter. Its not like things like this doesn't happen in real life.

[DatDarkOne]

4 hours ago, StreamBonker said:

Let me replace Ember with a Car and DE with a car company CEO. "Oh, you have a car you love and you wanna buy a newest model? We have shown you this AMAZING new model for it, but hey, we'll release a different one that a great deal of people will be unhappy with. Oh, you're unsatisfied with the new model of your car? Don't worry, you can NOT BUY IT! We wont release a new model but HEY! If you are on PC you can paint your existing one different colours! Sure it's more expensive but who cares! Don't worry about it! We're listening to all of your feedback!" And then the car company CEO never talks to you again despite you and many other people giving their feedback.

Pretty sure you'd be pissed that you can't upgrade your rickety old car to the brand new gorgeous shiny model you've been waiting for and the CEO giving you the option to upgrade to an option that disagrees with your aesthetic preferences; and when you tell them that you wanted the original updated model, to be disregarded, disrespected and ignored so. I don't know about you, but my faith in that company would be shaken a bit.

You do know that this happens every year with every car manufacturer every time they show a concept car, right?  Which has been happening for way longer than video games.  So I have to say that your example isn't a good one for your case.  

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Its not like things like this doesn't happen in real life.

Exactly!!

[MeiWIZ]

 

I like every Deluxe skin. And I bought it all.
But I can not really afford this Ember Deluxe skin.

I hope to DE fix it a little.

 

 

[StreamBonker]

10 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

-Snippity-

Yeah, not going to lie, that was a bad similie on my part, my apologies. I hope it didn't hurt my point too much :<

12 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

-snooty, I'm comin' fo' dat booty-

First of all, a clarification. Yes, DE has metrics as to how many people buy the skin, but with my experience in game development, I know they also have metrics about how many people using ember use said skin. We don't have the numbers so we can only speculate, but the quantity and ratio of bought to used should give DE a good idea about how the community really feels. Again, we can only speculate on that point and express our own opinions.

And you know what? I went back as far as I could care to read your replies on this thread. Your contribution to this discussion has been
1) A couple of pieces of anecdotal evidence 
2) A dismissal of all opinions not shared with your own as whining
3) Whining about said "whining" and demeaning other posters who have put down their feedback in a more constructive, helpful and kind manner than your "nitpick about feathers and froth at the mouth. "

So, tell you what, a couple of replies ago you said " "Don't like it, don't buy it" is really all they need to say." 

Well, same goes for you. Don't like this discussion or what the people in this discussion are saying? Don't talk in this thread. Don't reply to people who don't share your opinions. All you're doing is bumping a thread with opinions you seem to have a disdain for.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, StreamBonker said:

 

Well, same goes for you. Don't like this discussion or what the people in this discussion are saying? Don't talk in this thread. Don't reply to people who don't share your opinions. All you're doing is bumping a thread with opinions you seem to have a disdain for.

I made no assumptions on DEs metrics, I don't have the facts. I simply stated that they'll make changes based on those metrics. You are the one assuming that there are tons of people buying it that hate the skin. That is stretch. That's also assuming that most players have plat to just throw away, which I don't think is true. 

Voting with your wallet is far more effective at showing your displeasure than buying it and assuming DE will come to the conclusion that you hate it anyway. That's just logic. I encourage it. In all ALL of gaming, we need players to be more responsible with their money instead of just buying whatever developers throw at us. If your bought it and hate it, you're part of the problem and you invalidate forum feedback even more.

I like the Ember skin, but If players forced DE to push the envelope I wouldn't mind. That's a far cry from calling the art team horrible untalented people to shame them into working on a concept from a guest artist that they clearly had issues working on.

All of my post have been on topic, unlike your response. It's lame that you feel the need to attack me instead of coming up with a relevant point. I haven't dismissed "opinions". If someone doesn't like it, that's perfectly fine. I've dismissed anyone claiming ridiculous arguments like yours where you assume everyone that bought it hates it. 

Anyway, let's try and stay on topic next time. You can PM me instead if you're hurt and want to vent about my post. 

This is a discussion forum, not an echo chamber. My post are just as valid as any other.

[DatDarkOne]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

In all ALL of gaming, we need players to be more responsible with their money instead of just buying whatever developers throw at us. If your bought it and hate it, you're part of the problem and you invalidate forum feedback even more.

A very good recent example is EA and how they have handled Star Wars Battlefront 2.  EA only did this because they have gotten use to gamers buying everything no matter how bad it is.  

Thank goodness gamers are finally starting to see the light and not buying every thing EA and similar triple A devs have been throwing at us.  

This is not to say that DE is perfect, but they do treat us better than other Devs while also putting out a much better product than the other Triple A teams have been doing.  

So in this light, all I've ever asked in the forums is for us all to be aware of the larger picture while staying respectful and realistic.  :D