Konnstruct Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 It's rather sad that I can't complete my skill tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 The reason for this is so that you can customize your character and not all max level players are going to have the same build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapricaSix Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I don't like it much either. I'd rather have unique passive skills on each warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Each warframe has different base stats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourger Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 For once one game removed the hassle of choosing what to get, and now they take it away from me! Q_Q Don't get me wrong I love theorycrafting, but I always believed that in terms of skills and stuff like warframe upgrades give, one should never choose, but rather have everything available, and developing and have fun with his/her own different gameplay. And expensive respecs prevent me to have fun with all the things. I hate it ç_ç Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankJaeger Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Not to mention that we don't know for certain if level 30 is the true "max" cap they will end with. They could up those level caps as they add more content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tollwut Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 The reason for this is so that you can customize your character and not all max level players are going to have the same build. This. And I very much enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuzo Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Not to mention that we don't know for certain if level 30 is the true "max" cap they will end with. They could up those level caps as they add more content. whats the point of pluto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ced23Ric Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I am starting to believe that this a Western mentality, predominantly from the Northern American continent. If you don't have "all", you are being held short. But that is totally not what is going on - you have limited resources to allocate, sure, but when the upgrade nodes were expanded to 45, you could allocate them differently. For the first time. Power is not always going one step up, it can also be taking a step to the side. Is this concept really that alien to some of you? You cannot maximize all nodes. You have to decide. Freedom of choice is scary, I guess. Rather freedom from choice. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessian Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) I am starting to believe that this a Western mentality, predominantly from the Northern American continent. If you don't have "all", you are being held short. But that is totally not what is going on - you have limited resources to allocate, sure, but when the upgrade nodes were expanded to 45, you could allocate them differently. For the first time. Power is not always going one step up, it can also be taking a step to the side. Is this concept really that alien to some of you? You cannot maximize all nodes. You have to decide. Freedom of choice is scary, I guess. Rather freedom from choice. :( You really think this mentality is only relevent to the USA? God damn son, you're delusional and an idiot. Edited February 2, 2013 by Hessian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyler Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 The way is always the same for me, Prio1: max shield, done. It's not a hard choice, really^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ced23Ric Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 You really think this mentality is only relevent to the USA? God damn son, you're delusional and an idiot. Sorry, babycakes, but if you read it that black and white out of an assumption with relative wording, I'll indulge. It's not hard to collect social metrics and generalise behaviour of people, and while I in no capacity whatsoever said that it is only relevant to the US, the US American people have a clear predjudice towards winning and a clear concept of value/posession. Second place is first place for losers. Buy one, get one free. Take now, pay later. Win all the categories, or it's a dirt stain on the record. Buy now or you will lose massive savings. Etc. pp. Having to allocate limited resources is a trait poor people need. Being poor is horrible. Overspending, luxury, big house, big car, etc. - those are aspects to aspire to. It is not about practicality, it is about status, prestige, and overachieving. My delusions are either a thing masses of people suffer from, and my idocy is either widely spread, or you aren't connecting the dots. For America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromann Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Yup, Ced has just announced he wants to lose all credibility and weight in argument with those comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Folsk need to stop using the argument that if we can maxa skill tree it means we have the same build. That is simply not true. First-if I pick a rhino I expect to get rhino skills. On some level I am going to be sinilar to other rhinos. Second-through various mods my rhino will be different than yours. This was always a defining factor of every frame and will continue to be. Third-weapon choice will effect how you play. People have used the argument "but you CAN make each frame play identically outside of abilities" That is an illogical argument. we CAN also pick the same frame. we CAN also make the same frame wildly different stat wise. makes no sense to say we shouldnt have the option to build a frame the way we want that may or may not be similar to something else.... and then claim we want customization. If Warframe is going to have any more true differences between the frames they will will need to ADD more differences. Like passive abilities or special effects. You cannot maximize all nodes. You have to decide. Freedom of choice is scary, I guess. Rather freedom from choice. :( Your using an argument for why custom skill trees are good in general... But in this particular case the choice is mixture of illusion and limitation. Node are still the most powerful decider of stats and making us choose how many points go on each of only four abilities isnt real depth of choice. Edited February 2, 2013 by Ronyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katakuna Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 This thread was pointlessly escalated, good on ya Cedric. Wasn't aware this was a "Hate on America" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 It's just an experiment. Good things take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ced23Ric Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Yup, Ced has just announced he wants to lose all credibility and weight in argument with those comments. This thread was pointlessly escalated, good on ya Cedric. Wasn't aware this was a "Hate on America" thread. Wasn't one, isn't one. My apologies if it struck anyone as such, that wasn't the intention. Doesn't change the observations/generalisation about people. Germans have a hard time with humour and strive for efficiency, held back by their love for unnecessary bureaucracy and often losing sight of "pointless fun", for example. We all have traits passed on to us by previous generations. If it is "hating on America" to associate a trait with the perception of a system, it makes me a bit sad that the nerves are so low under the surface. It's not like skilltrees are a new thing. It's not like having less points than available options haven't been done before. You can only pick two perks in CoD, out of a magnitude, for example. You can only pick two weapons in BL:R. Limitations are tough and require user-made balancing of their loadout. The wish to "have it all" has its roots somewhere, and more often than not, the strength of that wish is tied within the generalised behaviour patterns of people. But in this particular case the choice is mixture of illusion and limitation. Node are still the most powerful decider of stats and making us choose how many points go on each of only four abilities isnt real depth of choice. The current skilltree goes in the right direction, but has shortcomings. There have been some really good ideas on how to fix this. Zakalwe is experimenting with alternate skilltrees (Three new ideas for skilltrees), and one of the best suggestions I have seen so far was by MJ12, in his thread: Seperate Mod Slots from Upgrade Trees. Nevertheless, considering a skill tree without all nodes "incomplete" is a negative viewpoint, one that is birthed from something. I do not know what, ultimatively, but the impression that crept into my mind was the above. Diablo I had no skilltree, safe for the stats. People would do fine, but could gimp themselves with probable likelihood. Diablo II had the stats plus the three pages of tiered skills with synergies et al. People gimped themselves constantly, to the point where you had to follow buildguides to make sure you don't fail for the latest levels. Because of the high failure rate, Diablo III was dumbed down - no more player choice for stats or abilities. Everything preset. You can merely pick the skills you use at a given time. The two largest markets for gaming in the world for Western games are North America and Europe, focussing Germany, as far as I am informed. If this statement is off, then not by far. I won't be so bold as to claim this is 100% correct. On the advent of console gaming and newer generations of gamers, games became more and more simple, with CoD being such a railroad shooter that the singleplayer is closer to an interactive movie than anything. Nevertheless, CoDs marketshare and subsequent influence on the general industry's perception of contemporary game design is hard to deny. As a result, games become more simple - and such hard tasks as allocating limited resources are shied away from, with a tendency to rather spoonfeed things, to keep gamers happy. It's a psychological thing. You either appreciate the challenge or you rather have the cake and eat it to, without having to make such decisions. As this is regurgitated throughout multiple games and generations, eventually a stance of demand arises. Not having everything becomes considered "gimped", when it was "having to allocate resources" before. How is this delusional, how am I an idiot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Ugh.. Not all Americans are like that, many are. Certain types of games have become less popular over the past decade, not because the developers of them haven't been working hard, but because players are less invested in games that have steep learning curves and don't just hand you everything on a silver platter. This seems to be the case more of Americans than Euros and Aussies (I'm an American game programmer and I'm saying this). A lot of it is just culture and while I definitely don't want to get into a socioeconomic debate, sentiments vary between locations. The tree change was an overall great improvement. Obviously there will be people that hate it because they don't like making decisions like that, but those are the breaks. Customization and personal adjustment to gameplay are IMO fantastic things. Pick what you want and what suits you best. Unfortunately, yes, there are people out there that think "but why can't I have X too? :(" Idk.. Maybe it's because the first game I ever played with devotion was Sim Ant which had stupid levels of resource management (walk one foot and you die from starvation, not to mention the behavior and caste controls) so I just got used to it, but ever since, I've loved resource management in games and wish it was more prevelant. Another possibility is that some people are just completionists. It bugs them that they don't have the nodes filled for the sheer fact that they're unfilled. Even if they didn't do anything, they'd still want them filled. Edited February 2, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnstruct Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) Good lord, why does this always happen with my threads when I leave Q_Q. When the Hamstr is away, the posters will play I suppose. Getting back on track here, my OCD prevents me from accepting the fact that I cannot access those greyed-out upgrades... Edited February 2, 2013 by FrydHamstr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renan.Ruivo Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 You really think this mentality is only relevent to the USA? God damn son, you're delusional and an idiot. You know.. he said "Western mentality" as in "Western RPG's" being different than "Eastern (Japanese) RPG's". He did not, in any part of his post, referenced USA. He also did not directly insult anyone. You are a litle out of line buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromann Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 You know.. he said "Western mentality" as in "Western RPG's" being different than "Eastern (Japanese) RPG's". He did not, in any part of his post, referenced USA. He also did not directly insult anyone. You are a litle out of line buddy. "predominantly from the Northern American continent" I don't think he was referring to Mexico... He was making a veiled jab at American gamers to assume otherwise is a poor example of your noggin's capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Rebecca Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 This thread went off-topic and nasty fast. Locking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts