Miasma And Related Bugs

[CitizenV]

(I'm posting this here for a couple reasons. First, to let other Saryn users know about this. Second, to get some discussion going about it, and hopefully some data from other players)

 

 

Over the past few days, I've been testing a couple things with Miasma. I first started off with the new Chlora Helmet, then moved on to duration mods, and finally tested host vs. client. The results were rather surprising.

 

Chlora Helmet and Duration Mods

 

For those who are not familiar with the Chlora Helmet, it increases Saryn's stamina by 10% while reducing ability duration by 5%. It sounds like it's a terrible helmet because all of Saryn's skills would be affected by it. However, I was curious to see how much it would affect them, since 5% really is not a lot.

 

First off, Molt:

 

 

As you can see, the Chlora helmet works as expected. You can actually calculate the duration of Molt and it will match what I got when I tested Molt in-game.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Next, I went to Miasma, the focus of this thread:

 

 

The results were strange to say the least. There seem to be two things going on here.

1) Chlora adds a reduced damage tick. Why? Something wrong with the DoT skill mechanic? I have no idea.

2) Constitution and Continuity don't stack properly. For example, If you calculate the duration of Miasma with both mods, it should tick 6 times with a normal helmet (4 * 1.58 = 6.32 seconds).

 

I have not tested it on Venom yet, but someone else did and they said Chlora also increases the number of ticks Venom does.

 

UPDATE1:

 

 

Continuity and Constitution stack with normal helmet.

 

UPDATE2: (Darzk noticed this one)

 

 

Continuity and Constitution also stack with Chlora.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Host vs. Client

When I reported the above data on the Saryn wikia page, someone responded and said they saw Miasma sometimes do 10 ticks (without Chlora). This interested me, especially when he posted a

that backed up his claim. I immediately thought it may be lag that triggered extra ticks, similar to how FPS drops affect your fire rate. After some testing, it turned out it was not lag related, but rather seems to be related to whether you're hosting the game or not. (Note: the tests above were all done in Solo mode, i.e. I was the host).

 

First I tested this by joining some online pub T3s. I quickly found out Miasma was doing more than 6 ticks of damage. Instead of doing 1 tick per second, it would randomly do 2 or 3 ticks. Here are some of my results:

 

• 3, 2, 2, 2, 2 = 11 ticks total
•  
• 2, 1, 1, 2, 1 = 7 ticks total
•  
• 2, 2, 1, 3, 2 = 10 ticks total
•  
• 3, 2, 1, 2, 2 = 10 ticks total
•  
• 2, 1, 1, 2, 2 = 8 ticks total
•  
• 2, 2, 2, 1, 2, 1 = 10 ticks total
•  
• 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1 = 11 ticks total
•  
• 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 = 7 ticks total
•  
• 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1 = 11 ticks total
•  

 

My next test was to test whether or not it would work if I was hosting an online game. So I started up a T2 Extermination, and invited my friend who also used a Saryn (thanks OrokinNoob). I consistently only did 6 ticks of damage with Miasma (as expected from Chlora and Continuity). However, my friend actually got up to 10 ticks of damage. This seems to confirm my theory that there is a bug with DoT skills when you're a client, and not hosting a game.

 

UPDATE: I don't believe it's related to host or client anymore. I've seen double ticks in some games when I was host, and sometimes even when I'm playing by myself in Online/Private mode.

 

 

So, does anyone have any ideas why Chlora is not working as it should? Xenapan posted this on reddit, and it's not a bad theory:

 

 

My guess is misamia deals a flat amount of damage divided by the duration of the ability, thus when you reduce the duration, the game compensates by giving an extra tick of damage because it THOUGHT the ability was over at the 95% time but it still ended the actual ability at 100% time.

My guess is its a bug with the helmet being applied in a different order which makes the system deal out tick damage based on the helmet's new timeline, but still continues the ability on the continuity/constitution timeline.

 

 

And if anyone else can test confirm my host vs. client theory for Miasma (and other DoT skills), that would be awesome.

Edited September 8, 2013 by CitizenV

[sleepy]

Very interesting post, will watch closely.

[Busok]

a little offtopic but, i think the flux nova helm is bugged too. it doesn't reduce my health at all.

 

maybe there are bugs on new helmets?

[CitizenV]

a little offtopic but, i think the flux nova helm is bugged too. it doesn't reduce my health at all.

 

maybe there are bugs on new helmets?

It is possible, but Chlora does reduce the duration of Molt. So in this case (Chlora), it seems the bug is in the algorithm for DoT skills.

 

(thanks for mentioning the flux nova helmet. I thought I had noticed my health didn't change but never payed close enough attention)

[Nesisphira]

A ton of bugs, impressive

 

Ty OP

[AttackNitro]

Ok, So i just went and tested this. And Miasma was doing double ticks every second for 5 seconds, then a triple tick of reduced damage on the 6th second.

 

I have no idea why this happens, but essentially the damage looks like:

 

325 325

325 325

325 325

325 325

325 325

305 305 305

 

Not that im complaining about this, as i love playing saryn either way :)

[CitizenV]

That sounds like what OrokinNoob and the player from the youtube video were experiencing. It strange that I wasn't getting consistent double ticks; instead mine seemed to come randomly. I'll have to test it again and see if I was just missing the damage pop-ups.

 

Thank you for testing and confirming that. By the way, what was your set-up, specifically helmet and duration mods?

Edited July 21, 2013 by CitizenV

[Definitegj]

Ever since the update 9, when i used my reaper prime charge attack on charger (no problem on runner)  when I'm not hosting, i get 2 damage numbers coming out from different parts of the same charger and had the exp gain(blue numbers) counted twice. Just tested when i host and solo and no more double count. Not yet tested on Ancient (get swarmed if i try to charge attack ancient on nightmare mode).

 

Theory

So i suspect the bug is when you are client, some infected monster like Ancient's and charger's parts are treated as different entity so a single monster is counted twice. Therefore, skills that are AOE counted twice too. Exp will be counted twice if they die at the same time, if one part receive more damage and die earlier than the other (like damage source from dethcube) , you only get exp once.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Definitegj

[BlazenFury]

This needs to be fixed. Kinda ruins the point of pros and cons on alt helmets. .__________.

[CitizenV]

That's a very interesting bug and theory, but I'm not sure if it's what's happening here. This is why I believe that:

 

AoE and DoT skills like Miasma always deal damage to the same body part, in this case, it's the torso. This is how the skills are coded. This is also why Miasma deals 3x damage to Moas. Their torso is their 'fanny pack', which has a 3x damage multiplier.

Also as mentioned above, my tests were done in T3 void so there were many other types of enemies, not just infested. On all types, at least for me, I saw extra damage ticks. Strangely, my friend only saw double ticks on Ancients.

 

Anyway, thanks for the theory.

[Definitegj]

That's a very interesting bug and theory, but I'm not sure if it's what's happening here. This is why I believe that:

 

AoE and DoT skills like Miasma always deal damage to the same body part, in this case, it's the torso. This is how the skills are coded. This is also why Miasma deals 3x damage to Moas. Their torso is their 'fanny pack', which has a 3x damage multiplier.

Also as mentioned above, my tests were done in T3 void so there were many other types of enemies, not just infested. On all types, at least for me, I saw extra damage ticks. Strangely, my friend only saw double ticks on Ancients.

 

Anyway, thanks for the theory.

I see. Where is the note on Miasma doing 3x damage to MOA? Interesting info, never know that. Anyway, if the client somehow can recognize the parts as different entity than it would have its own "torso".

[CitizenV]

Seems there is no note on the wiki but you can see it written on other pages like Acrid. It is the same principle.

• Damage from DoT ticks deal triple damage to Corpus Moas (uses Moa "Fanny Pack" body part multiplier)

 

That is possible but I think the way it is coded to target specific body parts (torso is a body part for all other enemies) that wouldn't happen. The source of this is Pwnatron, the dataminer on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1i48y7/moas_taking_massive_damage/

 

 

Still it's a theory and worth keeping in mind.

Edited July 21, 2013 by CitizenV

[AttackNitro]

That sounds like what OrokinNoob and the player from the youtube video were experiencing. It strange that I wasn't getting consistent double ticks; instead mine seemed to come randomly. I'll have to test it again and see if I was just missing the damage pop-ups.

 

Thank you for testing and confirming that. By the way, what was your set-up, specifically helmet and duration mods?

Saryn Chlora helmet, and 30% continuity only.

[CitizenV]

Small update: support got back to me today and said they'll be looking into this bug. So keep a lookout on patch notes to see if they've fixed it :D.

[yangskiii]

To put it simply, If one wants maximum output of damage from Saryn's skill, It is best to equip Chlora Helmet and Continuity.


EDIT : typo'd Constinuity Lol 

Edited August 15, 2013 by yangskiii

[Katface]

Is DE looking at fixing Miasma so Continuity + Constitution works correctly or is using a broken -5% duration helm and 1 power duration mod the best way to maximize her ultimate ability. I really like playing Saryn and would like to see this fixed sometime soon.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Katface

[CitizenV]

Is DE looking at fixing Miasma so Continuity + Constitution works correctly or is using a broken -5% duration helm and 1 power duration mod the best way to maximize her ultimate ability. I really like playing Saryn and would like to see this fixed sometime soon.

I have not heard anything else back from support but they said they'd only contact me again if they needed more info. I guess it's on their list of things to fix, and they'll eventually get around to it.

[basilioss]

Courtesy Bump

[notlamprey]

I have to assume that bugs like this aren't getting under DE's radar, but it would be nice to see some official word about this one if it hasn't already been addressed.

[Hitomo]

I guess,since the Helmet is named Chlora ... its ment to boost the toxic.based abilitys

 

maybe its describtion means its actually speeding those abilites up. not reduce them

 

but, anyhow, finally a reason to get this helmt for my new favorite frame ^^

[CitizenV]

I guess,since the Helmet is named Chlora ... its ment to boost the toxic.based abilitys

 

maybe its describtion means its actually speeding those abilites up. not reduce them

 

but, anyhow, finally a reason to get this helmt for my new favorite frame ^^

The name I guess it misleading. Its in-game description and datamined stats both show it reduces power duration (by 5%). If you test it on Molt and Contagion, it actually does. It's just Venom and Miasma with their DoT ticks that get messed up.

[Hitomo]

My guess is misamia deals a flat amount of damage divided by the duration of the ability, thus when you reduce the duration, the game compensates by giving an extra tick of damage because it THOUGHT the ability was over at the 95% time but it still ended the actual ability at 100% time.

 

maybe thats wanted, thus reducing the Duration between ticks ... just a thought

 

if it gets fixed/changed we will know ^^

Edited August 25, 2013 by Hitomo

[Mercurialis]

The name I guess it misleading. Its in-game description and datamined stats both show it reduces power duration (by 5%). If you test it on Molt and Contagion, it actually does. It's just Venom and Miasma with their DoT ticks that get messed up.

However, without that current behaviour, the helm would be completely pointless.

There are of course many other helms with pointless stat combinations, but is it really worthwhile to nerf one of the few actually viable helms?

[CitizenV]

Ok, some preliminary testing shows they've stealth fixed the Constitution and Continuity stacking bug. I'll report full results in a little bit.

 

 

Ok, so only difference I'm seeing is that Miasma with Constitution and Continuity is getting 6 ticks now instead of 5. This was tested in solo, and may be different in online mode. I say this because IceCreamSand reported seeing 5 ticks sometimes.

Edited August 28, 2013 by CitizenV

[Definitegj]

Hotfix 9.4.1        

• Fix for selecting wrong friend when right-clicking in friends list (Context menu now pops up on right click release instead of right click down)
• Nova Helmet customization colour fixes.
• Fixes for Constitution mod and Fortitude mod not working as intended.
• Flux rifle with Multishot crash fixes and over-the-top corpse destruction (phrases I never thought I’d type).
• False HUD affinity fixed: Was saying “100” when truly giving double or Quad.
• Fix for  Orokin Void Defense enemy levels – they are now back to their original difficulty. They obviously felt the new recruits could take on Tenno, how foolish.

 

 

 

 

Not really stealth fixed FYI. Chlora bug still need fixing though.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Definitegj