Bring back Void Keys..

[Oksanya]

I will start this off by saying the following: I understand that Relics have replaced Keys 100%, and i'm fine with that; I really am.  I farm relics all the time.  However, some veteran players like me liked the old Void Key system better.

---------------------------------

A personal pet-peev of mine throughout the time I've played and enjoyed Warframe, was the removal of Void Keys.  To me and probably others that were around during the same time when Void Keys were a thing, the Void Keys actually felt like an end game to Warframe; unlike sorties which, most of the time, either give borderline useless, or ok (at best) loot overall.  Even with the Void Key leeching that was a thing, you always had the option to pick and choose people from your clan or your friends list, and NOT get stuck in with a group of total randoms.  The Void Relic was not made for ease of use, in my eyes anyway.  

It was made so people would have a harder time farming up Prime Warframes and Weapons.  Let me say this again, I accept that Relics are there, and i'm fine with them, I use them and farm them when im not leveling frames or talking to friends...but that doesn't mean I have to act like they don't have problems.  If you think I am crazy, think of it like this:

~New Prime Weapons or Frames come out, and now commence the vaulting of the old relics and making them no longer farmable.

~With those new prime now out, you need to find the new relics that contain their parts.  This prevents you from stretching one item (A Void Key) into long runs in void survival or defense, there was a reason to stay longer in defense and survival void missions when keys were around.  Now, Relics instead give you a half baked reward or some more exp if you go though rounds/waves or whatever.

My feelings about the removal of Void Keys will never change, no matter how long I play this awesome game.  Void relics create less loot in the Void overall, and are a bigger waste of space..and adds more random information we do not need.  The Void Keys also made the Void feel...how do you put it...special.  Locked away and sacred, that only those with a specific item could dare enter inside and reap the epic rewards, because if I remember right; you couldn't enter the Void UNLESS you had one of these keys.

If you read all of this, thank you for your time.  Agree or Disagree? Tell me what you think.

 

~Oksanya

Edited September 3, 2017 by Oksanya

[Fiftycentis]

i agree that relics are more casual player friendly. You need more time to farm a single piece, but you can do 5 waves of a random mission or a non endless mission and get it.

I really hope they'll bring back something in the void to make me wanna play there too others than the beauty of the place

[YUNoJump]

In the old system you could stockpile keys and essentially not need to keyfarm at all ever, but in the new system we have Traces so I'd say worth it.

[rapt0rman]

It's intentional, they don't want you getting 5+ prime parts from one key, relics are intended to make it easier to get the part you need, not maximize profit.

[Doforcash]

the up side of relic-diet is easier to farm a specific Prime part, consider it reduce from about 40 different reward into only 4 different reward. The down side however, is that you ending up want to sholve your PC mouse in your mouth because you doing a 2000 excavation score but still coudn't find the relic you're looking for.

 

i was thinking, why not bring back all the Void key, each void mission will drop a specific type of Prime part, and Relic will work as ensure 1 of the 4 part (depend on mission) will drop if we using it during a void run?

[Hecro]

No, please, no.

I love being able to be paired up in Pubs with players and taking their rewards every now and then. I get so many useful stuff I didn't even want to farm for.

[KirukaChan]

The main thing I miss about the old system was the big chunk of credits one could get for running a key. Running a Relic gets you some damn peanuts.

[Marthrym]

That's the whole point of the relics system : preventing the players from stockpiling and getting more than one part per run. It's a very simple concept : more grind, less rewards. Why do you think they implemented the trace system on top of it all? To add another layer of grind, to make people think it actually has a big impact on droprates, when all it does it barely affect it. That's why they use those shiny little bars instead of tangible, REAL numbers to tell us how we actually affect droprates with traces. They want to make it slower. All the while trying to "lessen grind fatigue". Which, as far as I'm concerned, is pretty much the one "upside" of this system. Oh, also it's "easier" to share relics, and you only run the mission once when sharing. Add the Ducats to that, you understand why they made it this way. They want you to grind more, without feeling like you're grinding more. It's a tradeoff, some people prefer it that way, other don't. Do you prefer more, generally less painful grind, or less, but more noticeable grind? Do you want less rewards with (barely) more control over what you get, or basically no control but more shinies (depending on the mission type)? Maybe we could try a mix of both. I don't know, this system isn't worse than the older one, just a different kind of pain.

[phoenix1992]

That is rather rose tint view on the Void keys.

Hey remember how we used to spend hours in survival for a net gain of 3-4 prime parts? Because rotation A drops Fusion cores?
Remember how we were always hungry for resources, because the diet of control modules and alloy plate does not suffice?
Remember the clean cut between people that use primes and people that don't because they don't have the aptitude to solo Void towers?
Remember when something gets vaulted and its price hits the ceiling?
Remember Vor being even more annoying?
Remember t3/t4 defence?

I do remember those things. I loved staying in the void for hours pushing my personal limits further while raking awards. But this caused major burn outs. The relics allow me to have all rounded resource experience, give me more affinity for my buck, give me options considering what loot I want and general diversity in the grind. T4 sabo that ends in 2 forma, 5k creds cache and 1 loki helmet does not happen anymore. And I do not miss it.

Edited September 3, 2017 by phoenix1992

[DrBorris]

1 hour ago, Oksanya said:

A personal pet-peev of mine throughout the time I've played and enjoyed Warframe, was the removal of Void Keys.  To me and probably others that were around during the same time when Void Keys were a thing, the Void Keys actually felt like an end game to Warframe; unlike sorties which, most of the time, either give borderline useless, or ok (at best) loot overall.  Even with the Void Key leeching that was a thing, you always had the option to pick and choose people from your clan or your friends list, and NOT get stuck in with a group of total randoms.  The Void Relic was not made for ease of use, in my eyes anyway.  

This is one of those things that I will never understand... How the hell is Prime farming any sort of end-game? Once you get all of the Prime stuff, why the hell go back to the Void? I guess that there is a Ducat grind but if you call Sorties unrewarding, I don't see how you think farming Ducats was any better than that. Like, hell, the best Ducat farm was Sabotage if I remember correctly, which is not even an endless mode. 

 

I am not trying to be that guy and say "your opinions are wrong", but when it comes to Void keys I feel like a lot of people have rose tinted glasses. Back then you had less hours in Warframe and your state of burnout was probably overall less, maybe that was due to the Prime grind keeping you occupied or maybe it was because you had less time in the game? I dunno, I myself do miss extended T3/T4 Survival runs, but what I don't miss is the loot acquisition that was bound to them. I wish endless endurance would make some sort of comeback, but I'd prefer in some system completely detached from the Prime grind.

 

Who knows, maybe my liking of relics is due to... uh... whatever the opposite of rose tinted glasses is. I burnt myself out hard on the last few PA in the Void, I got Warframes like Rhino and Loki within a week and a half of release (which was MUCH harder back then), by by the time it got to Saryn, Trinity, and Booben I just couldn't force myself to look at that goshdarn white and god tile set and fudging golden enemies anymore. Over the course of that time I learnt how to pace myself with Warframe so I no longer get "fed up" with systems to the extent I did then, which would mean that I wont ever experience that same burnout I did with keys due to my mental state and not the system itself. 

[Madway7]

57 minutes ago, Doforcash said:

the up side of relic-diet is easier to farm a specific Prime part, consider it reduce from about 40 different reward into only 4 different reward. The down side however, is that you ending up want to sholve your PC mouse in your mouth because you doing a 2000 excavation score but still coudn't find the relic you're looking for.

 

i was thinking, why not bring back all the Void key, each void mission will drop a specific type of Prime part, and Relic will work as ensure 1 of the 4 part (depend on mission) will drop if we using it during a void run?

Imo Hieracon is only good for relics if you're looking for xp and cryotic too, as a relic farm it's not great in the long run even if you have a super efficient team.

At least compared to stuff like Xini, Hydron and Stofler which have Neo Relics in their Rotation A and Axi in their Rotation B and C.

[Sajochi]

Yes, let's bring back the old system because I sure did like staring at the same damn tile set for three hours only to get orokin cells because my C rotation reward had an abysmal drop chance. 

The new system gives you more control, but at the trade off of only getting a single reward. It's actually more rewarding than the old system. I got ash prime, carrier prime, dual kama, and volt prime all in a week instead of the usual 2-3 months per set. 

The old system sucked. It sucked fun out of the game. This whole "the void key system was great gosh darn it" either had a luck god in their basement or is lying to themselves. 

And about DE doing this for money? The old system made me spend more because sometimes I gave up and just bought it from another player, instead of getting a cosmetic I've been having my eye on. I still spend money, I feel the devs deserve my hard earned cash, but now I don't have to give up looking good because I was frustrated not getting a prime part I wanted.

[(XBOX)Ubern00ber88]

2 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

That is rather rose tint view on the Void keys.

Hey remember how we used to spend hours in survival for a net gain of 3-4 prime parts? Because rotation A drops Fusion cores?
Remember how we were always hungry for resources, because the diet of control modules and alloy plate does not suffice?
Remember the clean cut between people that use primes and people that don't because they don't have the aptitude to solo Void towers?
Remember when something gets vaulted and its price hits the ceiling?
Remember Vor being even more annoying?
Remember t3/t4 defence?

I do remember those things. I loved staying in the void for hours pushing my personal limits further while raking awards. But this caused major burn outs. The relics allow me to have all rounded resource experience, give me more affinity for my buck, give me options considering what loot I want and general diversity in the grind. T4 sabo that ends in 2 forma, 5k creds cache and 1 loki helmet does not happen anymore. And I do not miss it.

"Look at them, they come to this place when they know they are not pure. Tenno use the keys, but they are mere trespassers. Only I, Vor, know the true power of the Void. I was cut in half, destroyed, but through it's Janus Key, the Void called to me. It brought me here and here I was reborn. We cannot blame these creatures, they are being led by a false prophet, an impostor who knows not the secrets of the Void.Behold the Tenno, come to scavenge and desecrate this sacred realm.My brothers, did I not tell of this day? Did I not prophesize this moment? Now, I will stop them. Now I am changed, reborn through the energy of the Janus Key. Forever bound to the Void. Let it be known, if the Tenno want true salvation, they will lay down their arms, and wait for the baptism of my Janus key.It is time. I will teach these trespassers the redemptive power of my Janus key. They will learn it's simple truth.The Tenno are lost, and they will resist. But I, Vor, will cleanse this place of their impurity."

[Scharfohr]

3 hours ago, Oksanya said:

I will start this off by saying the following: I understand that Relics have replaced Keys 100%, and i'm fine with that; I really am.  I farm relics all the time.  However, some veteran players like me liked the old Void Key system better.

---------------------------------

A personal pet-peev of mine throughout the time I've played and enjoyed Warframe, was the removal of Void Keys.  To me and probably others that were around during the same time when Void Keys were a thing, the Void Keys actually felt like an end game to Warframe; unlike sorties which, most of the time, either give borderline useless, or ok (at best) loot overall.  Even with the Void Key leeching that was a thing, you always had the option to pick and choose people from your clan or your friends list, and NOT get stuck in with a group of total randoms.  The Void Relic was not made for ease of use, in my eyes anyway.  

8

1. there is nothing that forces you to go public when using relics. You still can pick people from your clan to play with them. So no difference here, personally I thinks its better then before because you always have someone to play.

Quote

It was made so people would have a harder time farming up Prime Warframes and Weapons.  Let me say this again, I accept that Relics are there, and i'm fine with them, I use them and farm them when im not leveling frames or talking to friends...but that doesn't mean I have to act like they don't have problems.  If you think I am crazy, think of it like this:

2

2. for new primes I would say its even easier to get them because in the beginning, everybody runs radiant runs.

Quote

~New Prime Weapons or Frames come out, and now commence the vaulting of the old relics and making them no longer farmable.

 

3.. Vaulting already existed before relics so not really much of a difference here. I would say for the player it's better than before because they still can use the relics they already have and the prices don't explode as much as before.

Quote

~With those new prime now out, you need to find the new relics that contain their parts.  This prevents you from stretching one item (A Void Key) into long runs in void survival or defense, there was a reason to stay longer in defense and survival void missions when keys were around.  

 

4.The only reasons for staying longer in Endless Missions was 1. to get more out of one key and 2. because DE shoved another bunch of parts in C rotation.

If you want go for long runs with relics you get bonus relics every 5 rounds.

Quote

My feelings about the removal of Void Keys will never change, no matter how long I play this awesome game.  Void relics create less loot in the Void overall, and are a bigger waste of space..and adds more random information we do not need.

 

5. Only semi-agree with that. Yes while relics directly produce lesser loot there are the following points: 1. You always get prime Parts with Relics, 2. For Ducat Farming (especially in higher Rifts) you normally go out with 50-75% of the Relics you used, so not much of a difference here to the Keys.

Quote

 The Void Keys also made the Void feel...how do you put it...special.  Locked away and sacred, that only those with a specific item could dare enter inside and reap the epic rewards, because if I remember right; you couldn't enter the Void UNLESS you had one of these keys.

 

6. That Point fell out pretty fast for me after you see the same Tile Set for thousand times because the C Rotation dropped another Fusion Core Pack. 

Personally i only see two things that were better in the Key System:

1. You could Stockpile Keys

2. It was easier to farm for older things (you pretty much don't find a radiant run for older relics)

So personally I don't want to see keys system again. But I would like to see some other meaning given to the Void.

(and while we're at kick the key System for Derelict too)

Edited September 3, 2017 by Scharfohr

[Dreadwire]

The old system are better and more simple. But the downside is we can stock pile it. That the truth. 

the new system is much worse. Not because how it works. But because they said to lessen the grind.

You grind for key.

you grind for void s#@% 

only after that you get the chance to get 1 item you want. Yeah that right just 1. That is if rng is kind to you. If not.

It's back to square one again.

Well DE need to make money. And it's a free to play game. So you either enjoy it or hate it. Nothing gonna change that

[Sloan441]

I miss the Void, but I don't miss the shenanigans what went on around keyshares. Mostly, I didn't care (farm keys; run the Void), but the bad behavior displayed by so many in keyshares was...disappointing. And frequent.

The new system is mostly better, but I do miss that very visible goal of farming for prime parts in the towers. It seemed...appropriate somehow. The present systems lacks the elan of the old system.

[FashionFrame]

I'm glad the key void is gone. I'd spend months trying to get a part in the old system, it was touring as hell being stuck on one mission for hours on end, doing it over and over only to get a freaking orokin cell or forma. Meanwhile, I managed to get hydroid Prime and all the weapons in less than 2 days of farming. Why? Syndicate medallions. Get up the points as high as it goes, stack medallions and buy relic packs. Made it so easy! 

[Shiichibukai]

5 hours ago, Oksanya said:

However, some veteran players like me liked the old Void Key system better.

I hate it when ppl say that. Like what? 5 ppl?

 

Im pretty sure the majority is GLAD the void keys and the system are gone for good. Im sure the void will have some other purpose sooner or later.

[Emolition]

5 hours ago, FashionFrame said:

I'm glad the key void is gone. I'd spend months trying to get a part in the old system, it was touring as hell being stuck on one mission for hours on end, doing it over and over only to get a freaking orokin cell or forma. Meanwhile, I managed to get hydroid Prime and all the weapons in less than 2 days of farming. Why? Syndicate medallions. Get up the points as high as it goes, stack medallions and buy relic packs. Made it so easy! 

Yeah the new system is alot better. Got full hydroid with 3 relics only as 1 part we got from relic+trace farming when the 1 pug player bought the relic with him. The othere 3 parts we got on first try each. I bet it would probebly been 30+ keys before I got it with the old system. But the best part is diffrent tiles not same tile every day for weeks.

[Xgomme]

10 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

It's intentional, they don't want you getting 5+ prime parts from one key, relics are intended to make it easier to get the part you need, not maximize profit.

And I'll add that it's way more healthy for the game, for the grind routine.

 

I can't see any valid point in the OP tho, like Scharfohr

[Kyronz]

They problem was that they dropped a nuke on playing/rewards with the deletion of the old void system, and they have been insistent against adding any kind of reward to endless missions since then.   So what most considered end game no longer exists in any shape or form.

[Sajochi]

21 minutes ago, Kyronz said:

They problem was that they dropped a nuke on playing/rewards with the deletion of the old void system, and they have been insistent against adding any kind of reward to endless missions since then.   So what most considered end game no longer exists in any shape or form.

 You can still run endless fissures missions. They give you boosts for running them longer as well as free upgraded relics. I rather do a hour endless fissures mission anyways as those rewards pile up faster. 

Sure, you spend a relic each rotation, but there is incentive to stay in. Players just ignore it and say "not worth " when it actually is. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by Sajochi

[Kyronz]

7 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

 You can still run endless fissures missions. They give you boosts for running them longer as well as free upgraded relics. I rather do a hour endless fissures mission anyways as those rewards pile up faster. 

Sure, you spend a relic each rotation, but there is inventive to stay in. Players just ignore it and say "not worth " when it actually is. 

The boosts are not worth squat compared to the  old system.   Who needs boosts to credits/affinity or any such nonsense.   A real reward or reason for playing would be pretty nice.

To clarify the "bonuses" are so insignificant that they are worthless, which is why we don't see recruiting for them in chat channel.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Kyronz

[Sajochi]

6 minutes ago, Kyronz said:

The boosts are not worth squat compared to the  old system.   Who needs boosts to credits/affinity or any such nonsense.   A real reward or reason for playing would be pretty nice.

Free boosts that build up and increasingly upgraded relics are not enough? You rather have the grind that was universally hated because you were stuck in one tile set and got rewards like fusion cores and orokin cells in a C rotation? 

The current system is way more rewarding. Players just refuse to put the same effort to see that for themselves. Can't count how many times I see people leave at the first C rotation when the next gives them an upgraded relic they can use immediately. How simple resources are to obtain with the stacking boosts. 

Old void system sucked. It always sucked. It never stopped sucking until it was gone. I'll sit here in my many ducats and resources because I still run endless like the old days and I get way more than the crappy void keys ever gave me.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Sajochi

[Lost_Cartographer]

Void keys sucked because we were stuck only ever seeing the Void, and nearly every prime item had a part tied up in rotation C of T3/4 survival/defense.  The only people complaining are the one's that abused the fact they could get over a dozen parts for cheesing the hell out of everything for an hour.

The new relic system lets us hit up whatever mission type we want (as long as it's available) and there are only so many items that can drop from each relic.  We're given the opportunity to influence drop chances on items too.  It's a vastly superior system for everyone that just didn't care to run hour long T3 void survivals.