Bring back Void Keys..

[Kyronz]

11 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

Free boosts that build up and increasingly upgraded relics are not enough? You rather have the grind that was universally hated because you were stuck in one tile set and got rewards like fusion cores and orokin cells in a C rotation? 

The current system is way more rewarding. Players just refuse to put the same effort to see that for themselves. Can't count how many times I see people leave at the first C rotation when the next gives them an upgraded relic they can use immediately. How simple resources are to obtain with the stacking boosts. 

Old void system sucked. It always sucked. It never stopped sucking until it was gone. I'll sit here in my many ducats and resources because I still run endless like the old days and I get way more than the crappy void keys ever gave me.

many of us farmed keys so with the translation and even the little "misunderstanding" to the people who logged on immediately after relic system was introduced.   Farming keys was a major part of the game to prepare for the next gear drop.  That system gave a reason for continuous play, now it is play for 2 weeks max then go away (except sorties).

[Yagamilight123]

12 hours ago, Oksanya said:

I will start this off by saying the following: I understand that Relics have replaced Keys 100%, and i'm fine with that; I really am.  I farm relics all the time.  However, some veteran players like me liked the old Void Key system better.

---------------------------------

A personal pet-peev of mine throughout the time I've played and enjoyed Warframe, was the removal of Void Keys.  To me and probably others that were around during the same time when Void Keys were a thing, the Void Keys actually felt like an end game to Warframe; unlike sorties which, most of the time, either give borderline useless, or ok (at best) loot overall.  Even with the Void Key leeching that was a thing, you always had the option to pick and choose people from your clan or your friends list, and NOT get stuck in with a group of total randoms.  The Void Relic was not made for ease of use, in my eyes anyway.  

It was made so people would have a harder time farming up Prime Warframes and Weapons.  Let me say this again, I accept that Relics are there, and i'm fine with them, I use them and farm them when im not leveling frames or talking to friends...but that doesn't mean I have to act like they don't have problems.  If you think I am crazy, think of it like this:

~New Prime Weapons or Frames come out, and now commence the vaulting of the old relics and making them no longer farmable.

~With those new prime now out, you need to find the new relics that contain their parts.  This prevents you from stretching one item (A Void Key) into long runs in void survival or defense, there was a reason to stay longer in defense and survival void missions when keys were around.  Now, Relics instead give you a half baked reward or some more exp if you go though rounds/waves or whatever.

My feelings about the removal of Void Keys will never change, no matter how long I play this awesome game.  Void relics create less loot in the Void overall, and are a bigger waste of space..and adds more random information we do not need.  The Void Keys also made the Void feel...how do you put it...special.  Locked away and sacred, that only those with a specific item could dare enter inside and reap the epic rewards, because if I remember right; you couldn't enter the Void UNLESS you had one of these keys.

If you read all of this, thank you for your time.  Agree or Disagree? Tell me what you think.

 

~Oksanya

Hard time farming with the relic system? O.o wtf . Compare the amount of prime parts that came from the void keys with the ones of the relic system ... the prices went really low since the relic were release (vaulted primes before relics like ember were sold for more than 1000pl .... and now any vaulted prime its not more than 200-300 at most ) .

[Emolition]

2 hours ago, Sajochi said:

 You can still run endless fissures missions. They give you boosts for running them longer as well as free upgraded relics. I rather do a hour endless fissures mission anyways as those rewards pile up faster. 

Sure, you spend a relic each rotation, but there is incentive to stay in. Players just ignore it and say "not worth " when it actually is. 

Yeah defense and survival fissures are nice never got a radiant relic yet only gone to 60min survival so far just to make sure no one in the group crash and lose stuff.

[Emolition]

double post.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Emolition

[Kyronz]

2 hours ago, Littleman88 said:

Void keys sucked because we were stuck only ever seeing the Void, and nearly every prime item had a part tied up in rotation C of T3/4 survival/defense.  The only people complaining are the one's that abused the fact they could get over a dozen parts for cheesing the hell out of everything for an hour.

The new relic system lets us hit up whatever mission type we want (as long as it's available) and there are only so many items that can drop from each relic.  We're given the opportunity to influence drop chances on items too.  It's a vastly superior system for everyone that just didn't care to run hour long T3 void survivals.

 

 

or were willing to put the time into it, 40 minute T3 survials (since they only added new parts mostly to that one mode) where hardly cheese runs.

Farming keys was where the game excelled, new gear drop, i need about 3 parts to  finish it...then i stop playing because there is NOTHING to do in game  anymore, there is no preparing for next gear drop by farming void keys and there is no reason to do endless missions.   They have told us that after gear drops to go play other games and invest in those  because they are not willing to supply content to us in warframe.   So we obey.

 

and on a side note, and not to abridge CB...but they are now blatantly copying already failed games, i am a little worried about DE's future.

[phoenix1992]

9 hours ago, Kyronz said:

many of us farmed keys so with the translation and even the little "misunderstanding" to the people who logged on immediately after relic system was introduced.   Farming keys was a major part of the game to prepare for the next gear drop.  That system gave a reason for continuous play, now it is play for 2 weeks max then go away (except sorties).

Sauce of this statement?

If you are implying that the new system is faster or slower than the old one - if you "solo" it is slower, if you use the group finder it is around the same speed.
Implying that 1 frame and 2 weapons (If there are even 2 weapons, hello there Trinity Prime) takes more than a week of serious farm is flat out misinformation. On both of the Void and the relic system.
 

[Gamma745]

My short answer: No. I don't miss the old Void. Wouldn't want it back, very glad to have Relics now.

Reason: The over-repetitive grind for Volt Prime made me ridiculously burned out of Survival mission at the time, Endless mission in general afterwards. After 15 mins in Survival I was fighting over sleepiness instead of the Corrupted enemies. Now I can actually see different tilesets, different enemies, different missions, even though I'm looking for the same part. Good riddance to that over-diluted Rotation C only reward table.

[torint_man]

No thank you. Being forced to run a specific mission on a specific tileset for a specific drop on rotation C sucked big time. T3 survival rotation C was the epitome of this. Something like a 1/14 chance (I'm pretty sure it got this bad) meant in order to have a greater than 50% chance of having it meant 10 rotation Cs, which is 200 minutes. In order to have a 90% chance of getting it, 31 runs were necessary, which is 620 minutes. So yeah, you could spend 10 hours in the exact same tileset against the same faction and still have a 10% chance to not have it at the end anyway. You could sell the other rare parts you hopefully got for plat then buy the part by that point, but that isn't something most players are willing to do, or even cross their minds.

Void keys were also difficult to share with randoms, as every time you did a keyshare, you risked players ditching intentionally or not, and pubs weren't an option. Sure if you had a dedicated group, you did spend less time farming the keys than you do specific relics now, but very few players had the luxury. Now, radshares insure nobody is a leech, and decrease the number of runs drastically (effectively a 1/3 chance every time you do a radshare for the rare is pretty good), or you can pub so everyone can mutually leech off of each other and grace one another with their rewards. As for void traces, their only problem is they have a huge range of 6-40 which means you can get feelings of being shafted quite easily on a low roll. Survival fissures are great for trace farming as the resource booster they grant affects your traces, so you can get about 900 in 125 minutes with survival, plus an exceptional, a flawless, and 3 radiant relics. Failing that, pub captures and exterminates are super quick. The random fissure system might be annoying if your are looking for both a certain tier and mission type, but there almost always is a decent pub-able fissure at any given time.

Don't worry, I'm not going to just sing praises. If you start from scratch, getting a specific relic is tedious. Trying to get a rare of an older or unpopular part is difficult (Getting a neo B2 radshare a few weeks ago took more than 15 minutes). The void trace system makes the endless modes that aren't survival needlessly difficult or time consuming, or even screwing up quick missions in small tilesets (europa sabotage is the most egregious example). I get why DE has it, to insure you kill the enemies, but I feel that the game is taking the piss when you don't get 10 traces in a defense mission, as the purpose the traces serve isn't relevant in that game mode. In other modes you sometimes have to let enemies live so they get corrupted, which is a really annoying thing to have to do. But i digress, as the void trace system isn't inherent to the relics system.

[(PSN)ghinellil]

Sometimes i do Void survivals for fun with my friends. Not need keys to have fun...

I wish there was some reward after one hour on Mot... but the 99% of players will do this with some kind of Meta (Naramon), so it will lost all the "end game" fun for veterans. This game is for casual players, who follow youtubers bad builds with unmaxed mods (lol) People don't like it difficult.

[Tricky5hift]

I would rather die than go back to doing T4 defense and the asinine process of key sharing.

[Aoden]

Personally, I got tired of the key system when every other rotation gave uncommon fusion cores.

I could, and did, farm for weeks to get a certain part and get nothing but Orokin Cells, Fusion Cores, and Forma. Where now I can get the part I need in less than a week, a single day if I'm lucky.

It wasn't even difficulty that put me off, it was burning 10-20 keys and getting nothing but regular junk that I could pick up in the star map.

Gone are the days of staring at 3 Fusion Core packs and an Orokin Cell in my rewards list, and I am glad of it.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Aoden

[(PSN)samppaH]

Void Key= Everybody has a key but everybody get's only one thing

Relics = Everybody has a relic and there's Multiple reward choices from Relics and not just one that is given to everybody. Somebody get's something you need in their relic, you get to choose that as reward. Plus an option to have a higher chance to get rare reward from relic.

[Fiftycentis]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)samppaH said:

Void Key= Everybody has a key but everybody get's only one thing

you could use a key and get more than one reward, then going to farm a single key, and get multiple rewards with it

if you want to compare them at least do it right

[(PSN)samppaH]

1 minute ago, Fiftycentis said:

you could use a key and get more than one reward, then going to farm a single key, and get multiple rewards with it

if you want to compare them at least do it right

No

[Kn0xxPT]

i'm not that veteran, but I did spent alot of my time in Void.
Do I miss it ? Yes, hell Yes...
Do I like the Relic system ? Yes ... there no problem with that.
So why the old Void ? ..because it was plain simple and basic. "pick a key and get lucky!" 

With the relic system there are more options, but it makes a little bit less simpler than old Key system

Old Void Key = farm a Key level, fight until you want, get lucky for the time over there(endless). repeat after 1 hr or so ...

Relic System = farm for especific Relic, farm Traces for it, and get lucky, repeat after 5 to 10 minutes.

Void = old school, perfect build for max survival, skills... More dedication and commitment.
Relic System = PUG and get lucky. Less dedication, pure casual.

 

[kontradictions]

My biggest problem with the relic system is that there are just way too many of them. This makes finding a relic share group a nightmare. It's not so bad with the latest and greatest prime gear but for players farming for older releases, searching for a group must be agonizing.

[Sloan441]

4 hours ago, Fiftycentis said:

you could use a key and get more than one reward, then going to farm a single key, and get multiple rewards with it

if you want to compare them at least do it right

He did do it right. What he left out was the mendacity that was endemic in keyshares.

Ideally, yeah, you might get four items out of one key. This was how it was if you did keyshares with guildies. What happened with PuGs was a good deal less salutary.

What usually happened was soon as something interesting dropped, your fellow travelers promptly disappeared without bothering to use their keys. Even more frequent was the discovery that one (or more) of your teammates didn't have the correct key--or even a key at all. This wasn't an occasional thing. It was the norm.

The one--and only--upside of the old system was you could outfit new friends with some cool stuff to show them what was available. This could encourage freeloading, but you as keyholder could determine how to deal with that.

The new system just has so many advantages in flexibility. It doesn't save time so much as give you more options how you spend your time. In the past, I'd be heartily sick of the Void (cool looking as it is) by the time I finished farming up a new PA. Nowadays, I have many options (all of which do need to be done at some point) of what I'm farming--and I might get lucky in farming traces if someone else has a key I need. That's one of the chief advantages: if one gets lucky, you all get lucky.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

On 9/3/2017 at 11:09 AM, Shichibukai88 said:

I hate it when ppl say that. Like what? 5 ppl?

 

Im pretty sure the majority is GLAD the void keys and the system are gone for good. Im sure the void will have some other purpose sooner or later.

I hate it when people try to refute a blanket statement with another blanket statement.

And I know, between my old clan and a number of friends, far more than 5 people who agree with me that the old system was better, at least in terms of grind.

[SilentMobius]

On 03/09/2017 at 11:49 AM, Oksanya said:

I will start this off by saying the following: I understand that Relics have replaced Keys 100%, and i'm fine with that; I really am.  I farm relics all the time.  However, some veteran players like me liked the old Void Key system better.

Am veteran, completely disagree, the void key system was a toxic mess and we are much better off rid of it.

Not that the relics don't have problems, that reward sharing needs scrapping, it's another nasty mess and encourages bad behaviour.

Vaulting is a design decision, it would have happened regardless of the relic system.

[0asu]

The Relic System is objectively better than the Void Key System.

With the Relics, a player can get all of the latest prime gear within a week of casual grind. The Void Key System would take months of intense grinding.

The Void Key system involved grinding for specific keys so I don't understand the issue with grinding for relics.

With the relic system you can influence the drop in your favor by 34.39% with team coordination getting a roll within 5-10 minutes in a mission; while the Void Key system had less than 10% chances at rare drops, rolling (usually) after 20mins of being in a mission.

Edited September 5, 2017 by OGodKing

[babywrath]

I miss void keys. I miss 40mins/waves of ever increasing difficulty. Completely unlike the current system where people leave within 5-20mins/waves. I made the bulk of my platinum fortune just grinding the void for hours on end without interruption, solo or otherwise. Relic packs were so handy back then. Buy a few and you get a weeks worth of prime farming. 

Don't get me wrong. Relics are way better for farming rare parts. Grind for relics, grind for traces, play a few relics with radshare and done, rare part you need in less than a day. The unfortunate trade off however is grinding for relics to get guaranteed common parts for mindless grinding that only last 10mins. There currently is no mechanic that replaces the joy of void keys back in the day. The closest I can think of is grinding for relics or resources. Even then, you cannot just pub a game for more than 10mins.   

[Shiichibukai]

2 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I hate it when people try to refute a blanket statement with another blanket statement.

And I know, between my old clan and a number of friends, far more than 5 people who agree with me that the old system was better, at least in terms of grind.

Still wrong to assume like "most of the veterans" bs. Simply not true. Pretty sure the majority will agree the old system was a mess and outdated as hell. Its not a blanket statement by far. Just truth, so many ppl assuming stuff like "This amount of players" or "most of the yadayada". Beside the grind is pretty much the same just different kind of grind so meh.

[Archistopheles]

On 9/3/2017 at 3:49 AM, Oksanya said:

there was a reason to stay longer in defense and survival void missions when keys were around.  Now, Relics instead give you a half baked reward or some more exp if you go though rounds/waves or whatever.

Maybe I've just been getting lucky, but I'm getting relics for running endless relic missions... The system is not perfect, but it's better than it was before.

My addition to the discussion:

-Vaulting is dumb

-We should be able to pick what relic we want when we find a relic (just like how relics work when you open them) or we should be able to change relics to other relics with traces.

[Isenfalk]

I think I have to remind you to something even those who write AGAINST void keys seem to refuse to remember.

It might hurt, but:
T3 Exterminate
...
...
Even now I feel the pain.

Those fun and challenging endless missions were just a minority. Most missions had an end and many had just one reward (except sabotage with caches which had one rotation).

It were these one reward missions like Exterminate or Mobile Defence which doomed the faith of the void tower. Their rare drops had such a low drop rate, you could farm week for the specific key and the mission itself without ever getting the drop.
I know because I did that for an unvaulted Rhino prime. Whithout 100+ keys already stored, you had two horrible weeks farming for T3 Exterminate keys and doing the mission itself. In the end I had almost 100 prime trash but no Rhino prime blueprint. That literally made me stop playing warframe.

I came back just for the new relic system and it is way better. OK, you cannot farm them before they are out and the number and naming of the relics isn't that great, but you have a chance to farm a prime item in a week, even if you can just spend a few hours a day.

 

Don't get me wrong, I can understand what you are missing. One of my best moments in Warframe was my first public T2 survival mission. I just did it for my first forma bp and had a tiny ember to use. At minute 20 my weapons could hardly kill any enemy, at 30 most did oneshot me, at 50 min I just frankly jumped around with world on fire, cause the fire status cc was the only thing I could add at that time. When we exited at 60 min the rewards were astonishing and the feeling was fantastic.

But it is not worth it. If you have a good group, you can do Hieracon or an endless fissure for a similar effect. Both give you good rewards and are fun. But no matter how much you loved endless tower missions, they are not worth those horrible one - reward missions which would come back with them.

[Hypernaut1]

the old system was laughably bad in hindsight. It was purely an alpha/beta level mechanic. 

 

I love WF, but there was a long period of time where all i could do was log on, play the same void tileset and mission for an hour to get 2 maybe 3 shots at a rare reward, then log off with nothing but ducat trash. THIS WAS NOT GOOD DESIGN. stop it with the nostalgia over that 1 time you had fun going for 60 minutes. I had those moments too, but it did not outweigh the times i fell asleep from playing the same mission for a month straight. It was not "endgame". It was no more difficult than sortie 3, and it never came with conditions.

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Hypernaut1