A problem with logic

[ImpyMidna]

So i always had this on my mind and thought it was something worth bringing up. 

If Saryn spews toxins at enemies; why does toxic effect her

If Volt spews electricity at enemies; why does electricity effect him

If Frost is literally Frosty; why does cold slow him down. -_-
Etc. etc. My whole point is; the elemental frames should be immune to THEIR elements. :p
 

[SurrealEdge]

It's also noted why Ember still takes heat damage, but her passive allows her to gain energy when ablaze.

Simply, it would just ruin balance. Would it be fun to be limited to certain frames for certain environmental effects?

[Xardis]

Game balance. Gameplay doesnt have to follow lore. In most cases gameplay isnt considered as canon in lore. It would be nice if DE would change it but its not a major issue.

[ImpyMidna]

1 minute ago, SurrealEdge said:

It's also noted why Ember still takes heat damage, but her passive allows her to gain energy when ablaze.

Simply, it would just ruin balance. Would it be fun to be limited to certain frames for certain environmental effects?

it would be nice to have.
You cant kill Zeus with Lightning.
You cant kill Poseidon with water.
Etc etc. :D

[ImpyMidna]

2 minutes ago, Xardis said:

Game balance. Gameplay doesnt have to follow lore. In most cases gameplay isnt considered as canon in lore. It would be nice if DE would change it but its not a major issue.

Logic can kill video games in many cases; but It would be a nice feature none-the-less.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

[Hypernaut1]

But those frames are not MADE from those elements, they just control them.

A flamethrower can melt in a fire.

That said, I do feel like they could have some resistance to their respective element. I give them all elemental arcanes on their helmets as a kind of custom passive

Edited September 7, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[SurrealEdge]

Just now, ImpyMidna said:

it would be nice to have.
You cant kill Zeus with Lightning.
You cant kill Poseidon with water.
Etc etc. :D

Who says you can't? In the case of Zeus from God of War. Not sure about Poseidon. His eyes did go pop.

Would you want to be stuck to a specific frame for all mission types that had toxic spores in all environments? Gameplay should never be tied to specific elements that would detract from the fun factor. Would it make sense? Yes. The caveat is it would limit options for the sake of efficiency. Who would try out different builds when Saryn is all you need to deal with infested/toxin? 

[Azlen]

26 minutes ago, ImpyMidna said:

So i always had this on my mind and thought it was something worth bringing up. 

If Saryn spews toxins at enemies; why does toxic effect her

If Volt spews electricity at enemies; why does electricity effect him

If Frost is literally Frosty; why does cold slow him down. -_-
Etc. etc. My whole point is; the elemental frames should be immune to THEIR elements. :p
 

I think their affects should be re purposed into a positive instead of a negative, but they should still take damage from them.
Ember already does this, gaining energy from being fire-procced.
Frost could still be slowed on actions (reloading, casting abilities) but instead of being movespeed slowed, receive a slight movespeed buff on cold procs (10%?).
Volt could act as a conduit, chaining any lightning proc he receives to nearby enemies, reducing damage done each chain up to a cap (3 maybe).
And Saryn... her I don't have any good ideas, maybe as simple as reducing the total damage by half, or regenerating something like 1/4th the total damage after the effect ends as health.
Overall though I see how you can see it that way, I don't think they should be immune to those damage types, just gain a benefit over the actual status procs.

[ImpyMidna]

16 minutes ago, Azlen said:

I think their affects should be re purposed into a positive instead of a negative, but they should still take damage from them.
Ember already does this, gaining energy from being fire-procced.
Frost could still be slowed on actions (reloading, casting abilities) but instead of being movespeed slowed, receive a slight movespeed buff on cold procs (10%?).
Volt could act as a conduit, chaining any lightning proc he receives to nearby enemies, reducing damage done each chain up to a cap (3 maybe).
And Saryn... her I don't have any good ideas, maybe as simple as reducing the total damage by half, or regenerating something like 1/4th the total damage after the effect ends as health.
Overall though I see how you can see it that way, I don't think they should be immune to those damage types, just gain a benefit over the actual status procs.

Even something like this would be nice. 

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

Balance>Logic 

 

[phoenix1992]

In a game full of space cyborg ninjas operated by teens, you seek logic.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Complete immunity to toxin damage would be busted to all hell.

[Archistopheles]

19 hours ago, ImpyMidna said:

If Saryn spews toxins at enemies; why does toxic effect her

If Volt spews electricity at enemies; why does electricity effect him

If Frost is literally Frosty; why does cold slow him down. -_-

iF EXcaLIBur iS a SWorD, Y dOes BLadEs efFeCT hIM

 

Because having mastery over an element does not make you immune to that element. Dungeons and Dragons have had this for decades: Just because a Wizard can throw a fireball doesn't mean he's immune to fire.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Archistopheles

[Railgun]

I guess Mesa should be immune to bullets. 

[Phatose]

6 minutes ago, SergeantSunshine said:

I guess Mesa should be immune to bullets. 

Seems a little OP, til you realize Nekros becomes immune to Death.

 

 

At any rate, this isn't a novel idea.  It's come up on these forums many times, and been shot down every time, and the devs have already said no.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Phatose

[Andaius]

19 hours ago, ImpyMidna said:

So i always had this on my mind and thought it was something worth bringing up. 

If Saryn spews toxins at enemies; why does toxic effect her

If Volt spews electricity at enemies; why does electricity effect him

If Frost is literally Frosty; why does cold slow him down. -_-
Etc. etc. My whole point is; the elemental frames should be immune to THEIR elements. :p
 

why can poisonous snake be killed by poison? Why can you melt a stun gun with Electricity? Why does a flamethrower get melted if you throw it in a furnace? IF you actually think about it logically and realize that just because you using an element in your weapon doesn't mean your immune to that element. You may be resistant to that element or immune to the particular poison that your using, but it don't mean your immune to all poisons. 

Plus like the others have said Balance. Fire is in by large the greatest used element and that would pretty much make Ember (if immune to heat) ignore vast amount of AoE from grineer. Saryn ignore all the toxic aura's and clouds from infested, cold and electric are pretty much non-existent.

[o.0-]

Well, if anything at all, maybe reduce status effect durations on those Warframes built to channel those types. Meaning that being able to produce said effects, the Warframes are able to redirect them, but can still receive some damage, as they are not generating the effect themselves.

Remember that we are using Warframes made of Modules, Alloy, Polymer, Oxium and so on, so they can still be affected by Fire, Ice and so on.

 

An immunity to damage or status effects would be too much from a balance stand point.

[traybong111]

I know this is something of a joke but to give a more serious response: 

The problem with X element frame being immune to X element type of passive is that elements as we have them in Warframe are vastly imbalanced. Imagine, say, Atlas losing his current passive and gaining immunity to Impact--it just screws him over because Impact is a completely useless status and damage type, even moreso against high-armor frame like Atlas. On the other hand, Saryn being immune to toxic renders her nigh-invincible to an entire faction. Frost being immune to cold would give him...practically nothing outside of some Corpus Capture missions. Ember being immune to fire allows her to ignore 2 of the highest-damaging units among Grineer while Volt's electricity immunity gives him pretty much nothing outside of some Grineer Spy missions and maybe against that shock Crawler in Infested who does no damage anyway. Mag being immune to magnetic sounds pretty good until you realize only the Grineer door thingey or Infested Hive missions come with real dangers of mag proc except a very low chance of mag hazard Sorties. In order for X element immunity passive to make sense in Warframe, DE has to re-design not just elemental bonuses but also the frequency by which players encounter them as wielded by enemies.

Now, I'm not against DE taking a second look at elemental bonuses and penalties (why is shock so bad, both impact and puncture need more useful effects, etc) but that has to be done BEFORE they go around changing passives. 

[InquisitorMaximus]

What "logic" are we talking about here? How comes "it is logic" that Saryn should be immune to toxin/viral? Then, Nekros should be immune to death?... In the real world (for example) the electric eel (Electrophorus electricus) is resistant but not immune to electricity (we all are, we have resistance thresholds for elements such as electricity, heat, cold, toxins, viruses), another good example is the oriental hornet (Vespa orientalis) that uses electricity (actually transforming solar energy into electricity which is super cool and fascinating in my opinion!) yet it is not immune to electricity damage... so following the so called "logic" of this thread, nature is quite illogical!

Edited September 8, 2017 by RubenRosas

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

Ember can 're energize herself using fire. 

Volt creates and static charge by moving. 

So it would not be totally unreasonable to have

Frost have immunity to the effects of a cold proc. 

Sayrn have some Immunity to that toxic sludge on the ground. 

And mag have immunity to magnetic procs.( although rare. )

None of these would be game breaking. 

Some of you in this thread are blowing it completely out of proportion. 

What will really bake your noodle OP is: Why can ember 're energize herself from fire on the ground but not another Warframes flame thrower? 

But (shrugs) Balance > Logic I suppose. 

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Kinetos]

Balance *is* logic.

Software is nothing but a long series of logical and mathematic operations.

[TrickshotMcGee]

20 hours ago, ImpyMidna said:

~Snip~

We shoot bullets from guns and hit people with melee weapons, why do we take damage from enemies? I mean, we control bullets and or melee weapons, so your logic dictates we shouldn't be hurt by them.

To appeal to "logic": just because you can use a flamethrower doesn't make you fireproof, it just means you don't aim it at yourself. Snakes inject venom into prey, but can die when another snake bites them.

Using something doesn't make you immune to said thing. It wouldn't make a lick of sense to have those frames immune to their elements because it's not like they're made of those elements. They just use them.

[InquisitorMaximus]

12 minutes ago, Kinetos said:

Balance *is* logic.

Software is nothing but a long series of logical and mathematic operations.

Exactly. 

The game's universe (that "long series of logical and mathematic[al] operations") define a set of rules under which balance indeed equals logic (in that sense). Furthermore, if we allow ourselves to follow the mathematical universe hypothesis (MUH) as proposed by Tegmark the real world is simply mathematics, more specifically: "physical reality is a mathematical structure", so all what we estimate as "logic" or "illogical" (in contrast) is due to its adequacy or inadequacy to the underlying mathematical structure forming reality. Hence "balance" DOES NOT ">" "logic". :]

[Miser_able]

Because they don't harness the elements. They harness void energy and make it behave as elements.