Replace Nullifiers entirely

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

 More or less, this will actually be a repost of an off-topic thought i had on a different tread.                                                                                                                  I think Nullifiers should be replaced with Scrambus and Comba throughout the game. They only nullify certain types of powers at a time, and don't make their entire squad immune to our weapons in the process until we break through, which really is just a cheap mechanic. I would prefer they got rid of Nullifiers all together and just replace their spawn with those two, but if they really insist they could save them for sorties and alerts.                                                                                     With only the Scrambus and Comba we would have less access to powers until they die, but it wouldn't make the weapons ineffective against nearby enemies while we work to remedy that situation. The priority wouldn't always have to be the nullifier 100% of the time in every mission.         In example, you can still focus on the level 100 Corrupted Bombard first, then take out the corrupted Scramba right after to get your powers back. Right now, you're getting 1-shot rockets to the face from that corrupted bastard while the nullifiers prevent you from killing him even with weapons while you wade through swarms of enemies blocking your path.                                         I love that they added the little drone on Nullifiers to be able to destroy it but the drone up top moves as fast as the Nullifier can change direction so you can be lining up a shot against it then have it completely move 180 degrees to the other side of the bubble instantly because the nullifier turned around. It wasn't enough to fix the issue of them spawning in almost every group in higher level missions. 

[Tsukinoki]

Until they add a visual indicator to the comba/scrambus aura I have to disagree with replacing nullifiers entirely.

I much prefer nullifiers, that I can clearly see coming, compared to walking down a hallway and getting my abilities dispelled because there is a Comba/Scrambus on the other side of the wall and I had no indication what-so-ever that it was there.

I find those enemies to be far cheaper and more annoying than nullifiers have ever been.

[KIREEK]

Have you tied melee? have you tried nullifier specific weapons/builds/abilities? Have you tried specters? have you tried teamplay to take down the buble? Have you tried doing other things before taking down the nullifier, or leaving the nullifier to another player to deal with? Have you tried switching weapons or having a secondary that is vastly different from your primary so you can deal with nullifier? Have you tried turrets? Have you tried taking down the drone that creates the buble itself?

Have you tried anything to deal with nullifiers? because you have so many options that no matter the mission (such as sortie conditions) you always have several ways of taking them, just pick the ones that work.

Don't be like those guys that pick vectis prime to take out the nullifier buble by shooting at the buble itself in a mission where constant killing is mandatory (survival) and then complain on the forums that sniper only corpus survivals are bad.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

10 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

 

If adding a visible aura would improve them then this would be the perfect time to add it, not refuse the change. 

2 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

 

I have well over a thousand hours of gameplay starting long before Nullifiers existed. So, yes, I've tried all of those. I play every single frame regularly (except Zephyr, she's just awful) with different play styles and different loadouts. Some work out and some don't. 

Making builds specifically to deal with Nullifiers is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard in this game. And if you've ever played public then you know the sad truth that you can never rely on teammates to take care of anything. I'm not an elitist like many people so i don't mind picking up the slack but even when you can rely on teammates it doesn't make a difference if they are being bombarded by attacks from enemies in the safety of the bubble. 

Understandably, this isn't an issue if you're only running low level missions but since there's no real endgame here it shouldn't be so much to ask for improvements to the current high-end content. 

[Retrijeuj]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I play every single frame regularly (except Zephyr, she's just awful)

I'm offended :c Zephyr is a nice frame for solo high level missions (and by solo, I mean when you just need to rush the objective and the extraction without caring about your squad, like rescues or captures) and can be an useful support since you pretty much can't be targetted while your wind shield is up.

 

Back on topic though, my main problem with nullifiers is that they benefit from Healer Ancients' buffs, making them hard to take down at higher level missions, especially when they have an Arctic buff on top of that, and a few drones giving them shields. But as someone who uses mostly the Prisma Gorgon, Convectrix, Synapse or other high ROF/continuous fire weapons, I don't usually have too much trouble dealing with their bubbles.

And since you can destroy their bubbles completely (I mean, when you destroy the device around the bubble, it doesn't come back, does it ? I'm not completely sure about that), you can deal with them even with high damage weapons such as Tigris or Hek, since they're amongst the most meta weapons.

They're only dangerous when they gather a little army, that's all. You can always run away.

[INight00]

Replace Nulifiers for the reason they are there in the first place... sound logic.

The enemy needs some cheap mechanics. Why? Because the tenno have a lot of mechanics to use against the enemy.

[TaleTeller]

Unfortunately the nulls are there for a reason. A lot of Warframe powers are frankly OP, capable or locking down entire rooms and killing everything in it's spawns. I do wish nulls would go, but there's a lot of stuff that's gonna have to change before that happens.

Or maybe if they fixed enemy scaling nulls wouldn't be such a huge threat anymore.

But like I said. A lot of stuff to fix.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Nullies are cancer

[(PSN)fullblast35]

they ere supposed to add target points on eximus enemies and if you didn't hit that spot they would stay invulnerable.  nullifiers are the only thing keeping OP frames to wipe out the map like they want.  don't ask for something you don't know the outcome.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I'm starting to see a theme in the responses that leads me to believe people either didn't read past the title, or don't know what Scrambus and Comba enemies are.

I'm not saying remove Nullifiers and let players stay OP. I'm saying use the other, already existing enemies in the game that actually nullify powers of players over a much larger radius, but don't block weapon attacks in addition to powers like Nullfiers do.

These other enemies that are already in the game, much less commonly than Nullifiers, have a random aura when they spawn that block all of a certain power type. Depending on Frame, all of the powers may be blocked if they all include buffs/debuffs like Equinox against a Nul Scrambus, whereas a Sap Scrambus blocks damaging abilities from being used which would fully nullify a Mag that's nearby, but only block Ash's Shuriken and Bladestorm. The point is that the fight would be different each time, and would allow you to continue to prioritize important targets, whether it's a Comba, or the Toxic Ancient Eximus with your weapons while still preventing power spam all the time. They are also extremely mobile enemies so they aren't just sitting around waiting to be shot like a Nullifier.

If Scrambus and Comba were much more common and the Nullifiers were much less common (or even thrown into a small box in the void to rot) the game would actually be harder under many circumstances and less of a nuisance under others. But it wouldn't be the exact same situation every time...especially one where players decide to destroy build variation with an idea like "start using a loadout specifically to deal with Nullifiers". 

 

[Paradoxbomb]

I would definitely be behind Combas/Scrambuses replacing Nullifiers entirely, so long as:

1. Their nullifying aura had a visible radius
2. Their projectiles either do less damage or have better telegraphing (their attacks share the "silent but deadly" syndrome of Bombard rockets and can kill squishier frames in a single salvo)
3. Abilities aren't dispelled entirely but only "paused" so long as you remain inside the nullification field (this would be a godsend for frames with abilities that require buildup)

Alternatively, keep Nullfiers but instead of having them carry around a massive generator of counter-everything, give them the Isolator Bursa's little green Nully-Mine and just let them lob that a short distance similar to how regular sniper crewman lob those Rattel spawners. That way they can still block abilities in a radius and make it easier for enemies to close the distance between themselves and you, but the bubble itself will now be stationary and won't block gunfire (which I imagine is what a lot of people want). Given that the Devs aren't ones to remove an enemy entirely (especially one as "challenging" as the Nullifier) I feel like this would be a reasonable alternative.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Paradoxbomb

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 hour ago, Paradoxbomb said:

I would definitely be behind Combas/Scrambuses replacing Nullifiers entirely, so long as:

1. Their nullifying aura had a visible radius
2. Their projectiles either do less damage or have better telegraphing (their attacks share the "silent but deadly" syndrome of Bombard rockets and can kill squishier frames in a single salvo)
3. Abilities aren't dispelled entirely but only "paused" so long as you remain inside the nullification field (this would be a godsend for frames with abilities that require buildup)

Alternatively, keep Nullfiers but instead of having them carry around a massive generator of counter-everything, give them the Isolator Bursa's little green Nully-Mine and just let them lob that a short distance similar to how regular sniper crewman lob those Rattel spawners. That way they can still block abilities in a radius and make it easier for enemies to close the distance between themselves and you, but the bubble itself will now be stationary and won't block gunfire (which I imagine is what a lot of people want). Given that the Devs aren't ones to remove an enemy entirely (especially one as challenging" as the Nullifier) I feel like this would be a reasonable alternative.

And I'm fine with either of those options really. But Nullifiers, in their current state, are just a cheap mechanic that is a band-aid for actual game balance. I agree that Frames are unbalanced and OP compared to enemies throughout most of the game, but they included an unbalanced way to try to correct the problem. The thing is, at the end of the day, the Corpus aren't supposed to be the ones that win. There should be challenge, without a doubt, but Nullfiers are just a lazy substitution for that. 

[TheMightyBaloon]

Leave them nullifies alone, they've suffered enough. Fissure wise, at best you hitting around lvl50 enemies in which nullifiers aren't much of an issue. They die fast enough so that a simple jump in the bubble and kill 'em is enough. If you wanna lenz yer way through warframe I suggest bringing something like an akstileto to burst the bubbles or just mod your glaive like melee weapon for puncture + quick return +toxic damage. Or use a plethora of other weapons. If we are talking about void content like Mot or Belenus having one person in your group dedicated to clearing bubbles isn't so uncommon. Most groups that use to run old T4 keys had a player strictly run something like a soma or grakata to deal with bubbles so that the rest can just kill them. The only major issue I see with nulifiers is that if you wanna run your bow and a side arm like the prisma angstrum, that way you cannot easily deal with them at which point you went into a mission handy capped on your own volition. So instead of saying nerf nulifiers or remove nulifiers, why not try to deal with them. If you complain is about the absurd amount of damage they can deal on higher levels, well that is a whole different topic.

[Loswaith]

Comba and scrambus aren't a big issue simply because they never appear in large numbers (and rarely in endless missions), typically you get 1-3 and then wont see them again for a while.  Conversely nulifiers are actually much simpler to avoid but do spawn in large numbers and frequently.  This is the real issue.  Nulifiers simply need to spawn in fewer numbers and less frequently (given the type of unit they are).

Comba and Scrambus (and to an extent energy vampire units) are far more annoying as there is simply no indication of the type of one that is around until either a power drops or you cant use one (thinking the game maybe bugged out some of the time).  Sure they have their sound but all of the have the same sound, presuming you even hear them before you are nullified.  If unsure of this just imagine the comba and scrambus in the numbers you see nulifiers in.

[(PSN)Nurolkel]

I would agree on some form of Nullifying ability on the enemy side but not like this. If you go to a AXI Survival mission on a corpus node Combas/Scramblers start appearing quickly, ending all your buffs or abilities while the corrupted and corpus having their lunch. I think some alternatives have to start coming into play, I don't know exactly what but I do know I stopped using Mag in such missions. 

[BlackCoMerc]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Nurolkel said:

I would agree on some form of Nullifying ability on the enemy side but not like this. If you go to a AXI Survival mission on a corpus node Combas/Scramblers start appearing quickly, ending all your buffs or abilities while the corrupted and corpus having their lunch. I think some alternatives have to start coming into play, I don't know exactly what but I do know I stopped using Mag in such missions. 

Agreed.

Axii missions are simply not fun. Not enjoyable. And that goes DOUBLE for Corpus Missions. 

Basically, just take a high armor frame. Your not even playing Warframe on these Missions anyway, being as you absolutely cannot count on ever using powers when you need them.

So since Axii and high level Corpus are basically a bad Gears of War clone, may as well have armor aplenty.

[Ascythian]

Make nullifiers drain energy instead.