when are you nerfing condition overload? if you wont give it to the firearms as well pls.

[Rakosta_Kai]

16 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

4-there are more than formulas in calculating dps. im not saying your math is off, im saying youre leaving massive factors out.

Like what?

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

3-a status build on a same weapon will have more base damage than a crit one cus status builds use dual stat mods that give more base damage. so you basically did not understand what i meant by saying that. and all those weapons you have listed also have great status stats as well.

Assuming you're arguing CO versus non-slide Crit builds (as I already proved the multipliers are equally comparable even all the way up at 5 sustained status procs), let's look at what the benefits are:

The actively modded multiplicative factors of a crit build are:

Base Damage | Extra Damage | Crit Damage | Crit Chance | Attack Speed | (Headshot Bonus moreso for non-melee)

The actively modded multiplicative factors of a Condition Overload / Status build are:

Base Damage | Extra Damage | Attack Speed | Condition Overload. [Status Chance is required but not a multiplying factor.]

 

So we can already see that there's another scalar advantage for crits over status at point of theory. For exponential CO multipliers, you have a counterpart in combo-scaling Blood Rush. Base crit exists in the Status build but is not modded for (that would be a whole different argument), therefore you are looking at a bonus of up to 52.5% (assuming some high tier crit bases of 35%/2.5x).

Let's investigate some 'required' mods for each build to take advantage of the multiplicative factors without diminishing too many returns.

Crit:

Primed Pressure Point (basedamage)

Berserker (attack speed)

Blood Rush (crit chance)

Organ Shatter (crit damage)

Body Count (combo for Blood Rush stacking)

Multiplying Factors per previous listing:

165% | 0% | 60% | 165%*combo | 75% | (100%)

 

This leaves up to 3 mod slots for whatever else you might want - including up to 180%(if status helps) or 270% "EXTRA DAMAGE" through elementals. Maybe you want even more speed (Fury) and/or more base-damage (Spoiled Strike), a riven mod, whatever. There's room.

Crit Stat benefits do depend on the weapon base, so obviously a straight multiplication isn't quite appropriate. I'll ignore headshots, but will calculate it properly besides that:

At 3x combo you have a 16.77x damage multiplier on a 20%/2x weapon before the additional three open slots are used. +270% =  62.08x

At 3x combo you have a 33.61x damage multiplier on a 35%/2.5x weapon before the additional three open slots are used. +270% = 124.35x

 

Status:

Primed Pressure Point (basedamage)

Primed Fury (attack speed)

Condition Overload (itself)

Drifting Contact (else you also add Combo Multiplier to crit build factors)

1-4 Dual Status Mods (Extra Damage).

Multiplying Factors per previous listing:

165% | up to 240% | 55% | 60%^procs

 

Depending on your extra damage statistic in the above (need for status chance in general) you may have ZERO build flexibility in a 4-dualstat setup.

At 3 procs you have a 87.23x damage multiplier, including +52.5% for base crit.

At 4 procs you have a 139.57x damage multiplier, including +52.5% for base crit.

At 5 procs you have a 223.31x damage multiplier, including +52.5% for base crit.

 

Conclusion:

Only at sustained proc counts over 3 does a standard, non-sliding crit build fall short of a standard Condition Overload build, even accounting for all the extra damage factors.

Edited September 21, 2017 by EDYinnit
fixed calcs, whoopsie doo

[TheLexiConArtist]

Bonus Maiming equation:

20%/2x weapon: 199.95x damage multiplier (with 2*90% elemental in remaining open slots)

35%/2.5x weapon: 302.71x damage multiplier (with 2*90% elemental in remaining open slots)

Edited September 21, 2017 by EDYinnit

[Zeclem]

19 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Assuming you're arguing CO versus non-slide Crit builds (as I already proved they are equally comparable even all the way up at 5 sustained status procs), let's look at what the benefits are:

The actively modded multiplicative factors of a crit build are:

Base Damage | Extra Damage | Crit Damage | Crit Chance | Attack Speed | (Headshot Bonus moreso for non-melee)

The actively modded multiplicative factors of a Condition Overload / Status build are:

Base Damage | Extra Damage | Attack Speed | Condition Overload. [Status Chance is required but not a multiplying factor.]

 

So we can already see that there's another scalar advantage for crits over status at point of theory. For exponential CO multipliers, you have a counterpart in combo-scaling Blood Rush. Base crit exists in the Status build but is not modded for (that would be a whole different argument), therefore you are looking at a bonus of up to 70% (assuming some high tier crit bases of 35%/3x).

Let's investigate some 'required' mods for each build to take advantage of the multiplicative factors without diminishing too many returns.

Crit:

Primed Pressure Point (basedamage)

Berserker (attack speed)

Blood Rush (crit chance)

Organ Shatter (crit damage)

Body Count (combo for Blood Rush stacking)

Multiplying Factors per previous listing:

165% | 0% | 60% | 165%*combo | 75% | (100%)

 

This leaves up to 3 mod slots for whatever else you might want - including up to 180%(if status helps) or 270% "EXTRA DAMAGE" through elementals. Maybe you want even more speed (Fury) and/or more base-damage (Spoiled Strike), a riven mod, whatever. There's room.

Crit Stat benefits do depend on the weapon base, so obviously a straight multiplication isn't quite appropriate. I'll ignore headshots, but will calculate it properly besides that:

At 3x combo you have a 16.77x damage multiplier on a 20%/2x weapon before the additional three open slots are used. +270% =  62.08x

At 3x combo you have a 41.33x damage multiplier on a 35%/3x weapon before the additional three open slots are used. +270% = 152.94x

 

Status:

Primed Pressure Point (basedamage)

Primed Fury (attack speed)

Condition Overload (itself)

Drifting Contact (else you also add Combo Multiplier to crit build factors)

1-4 Dual Status Mods (Extra Damage).

Multiplying Factors per previous listing:

165% | up to 240% | 55% | 60%*procs

 

Depending on your extra damage statistic in the above (need for status chance in general) you may have ZERO build flexibility in a 4-dualstat setup.

At 3 procs you have a 46.9x damage multiplier. Add 70% for base crit = 79.77x

At 5 procs you have a 67x damage multiplier. Add 70% for base crit = 113.95x

 

Conclusion:

Comparable even without dank meme strike, it turns out, once you assign value to all the multiplicative stages..

i know maiming is even more bullcrap.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Zeclem

[TheLexiConArtist]

Just now, Zeclem said:

you have 10.49 multiplier at 5 procs. and blast counts as two procs for some reason so it can go up to 16.78.

I do appear to have misplaced something in my spreadsheet.

Fair play. Recalculated.

[Zeclem]

35 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

I do appear to have misplaced something in my spreadsheet.

Fair play. Recalculated.

ok so ive used a wep of those stats(nikana prime) with a non maiming crit build(bloodrush/bodycount+ppp+berserk+primedfury+two90forcorrosive). and co still does outdps it a very small bit on 3 procs and in 2x. and its extremely fast for that wep to have 3 procs(especially with blast counting as two). 

the main reason the spreadsheets and all cant calc is the speed of condition overload. 3 procs is literally nothing with the way blast proc works. i often get enemies with 4 or so procs on them in sorties and higher lvled missions lightning fast on a majority of weapons thanks to nearly every weapon class having a stance that has crapton of multihits in a combo. and this is just the melee's procs. if you wanna count in other weapons/abilities/forced procs it just goes to cancer and back. like having 6 procs on an enemy and at 5x for both builds, co deals a bit above twice the dps it has. how to do it? get a strong status secondary/primary(something like scourge or akstiletto p) and mash e on quick melee. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Zeclem

[TheLexiConArtist]

16 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

ok so ive used a wep of those stats(nikana prime) with a non maiming crit build(bloodrush/bodycount+ppp+berserk+primedfury+two90forcorrosive). and co still does outdps it a very small bit on 3 procs and in 2x. and its extremely fast for that wep to have 3 procs(especially with blast counting as two). 

the main reason the spreadsheets and all cant calc is the speed of condition overload. 3 procs is literally nothing with the way blast proc works. i often get enemies with 4 or so procs on them in sorties and higher lvled missions lightning fast on a majority of weapons thanks to nearly every weapon class having a stance that has crapton of multihits in a combo. and this is just the melee's procs. if you wanna count in other weapons/abilities/forced procs it just goes to cancer and back. 

As a matter of curiosity I checked the impact of 3-element vs. PFury+Zerk and that's only about a 30 dps difference, for what that's worth, so your build is assuredly safe there.

You mention 2x (combo, presumable) and I have to point out that for my example on a 20%/2x based weapon, the damage multiplier increases by ~12.5 per 1x combo step. 3x is not difficult, even 4x in a long mission is achievable. So at 2x-combo, that 62x multiplier is reduced notably to a 49x, which is understandably not competing with the 3-proc CO.

Unless you meant to say that you run CO without stable combo counter and yet still outdamage 3+x combo critbuild despite only being typically on 2x for status build?

Edited September 21, 2017 by EDYinnit

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, EDYinnit said:

As a matter of curiosity I checked the impact of 3-element vs. Fury+Zerk and that's only about an 80 dps difference, for what that's worth, so your build is assuredly safe there.

You mention 2x (combo, presumable) and I have to point out that for my example on a 20%/2x based weapon, the damage multiplier increases by ~12.5 per 1x combo step. 3x is not difficult, even 4x in a long mission is achievable. So at 2x-combo, that 62x multiplier is reduced notably to a 49x, which is understandably not competing with the 3-proc CO.

Unless you meant to say that you run CO without stable combo counter and yet still outdamage 3+x combo critbuild despite only being typically on 2x for status build?

nah co had drifting as well. 

3x is not difficult, i know. but so is getting 4 procs on each enemy. if you go for 4x, then co user can bring his/her weaponry to synergize with it to make up for it in long missions. 

you know what? F*** it. imma just use the damn mod. i like status weps anyway and its not like de would consider nerfing this thing. maiming strike has stayed the same for years. they just love their broken mods. 

what im gonna ask for now is give similar op crap to guns as well de pls.