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How To Fix Bad Design Council Design Decisions.

Volunterrorist

By Volunterrorist,
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Volunterrorist

Volunterrorist

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Make the abilities stupid strong.

 

Nova Ability 1 - They made it serrated blade, they made continuity affect particle count so you get up to 9 motes per cast, each dealing 200 armor ignore damage. 1800 armor ignore damage per cast, 3600 if targets affected by Molecular Prime, her ult, up to 4680 if using focus.

 

Nova Ability 2 - AMD- Made it into a moveable Nyx ult.. Completely outclasses Nyx's ult because it doesn't lock her in a stun, and you can use it from safe distances. Plus, it costs half as much. Original intent was just a moving sphere that you could force-detonate by shooting it. Enemies also take double damage if affected by molecular prime.

 

Nova Ability 4, ult - Slows targets by 50% for 60 seconds, makes them take double damage, and makes enemies explode on death for 800 dmg (before focus and the ability's own double damage effect). Taking at least the ability's own effect into account, it does 1600 damage. Original intent was just to cause enemies to explode on death for extra damage.

 

I'm very disappointed in the way this frame turned out. The only way they could make this frame's bad ability setup good was to make each one stupidly strong. This isn't good design.

Edited by Volunterrorist
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TunaMayo

TunaMayo

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Were you involved in the process at all or did you just come back to warframe now?

 

Despite putting forward short 2 or 3 sentence ideas and voting on the ideas that DE believed could fit in game, we didn't actually have any say as to how the powers would behave in game.

 

We didn't know AMD would be as useful as it was and have no cap on damage.

We didn't know (I didn't know and I came up with the idea) that Molecular Prime would slow and debuff enemies.

 

A lot of people didn't think a pure damage frame with no utility would actually work, DE managed to make one that does and actually compares to Vauban's usefulness in CC.

 

Don't blame the design council for something they actually didn't have a say in.

 

Wait til the other frames get a buff to be on par with Nova and Vauban, THEN you may compare Nova to the other frames.

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Blatantfool

Blatantfool

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You almost got me. Almost.

 

  I'm a poor shot. One of these days.

 

 Anyway - I dunno if I agree. I rather like Nova right now - this is coming from someone who doesn't have her yet to play. She is very easily credit to team. I like that a lot. She meshes well with almost every other frame - particularly her 4.

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Volunterrorist

Volunterrorist

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Were you involved in the process at all or did you just come back to warframe now?

 

Despite putting forward short 2 or 3 sentence ideas and voting on the ideas that DE believed could fit in game, we didn't actually have any say as to how the powers would behave in game.

 

We didn't know AMD would be as useful as it was and have no cap on damage.

We didn't know (I didn't know and I came up with the idea) that Molecular Prime would slow and debuff enemies.

 

A lot of people didn't think a pure damage frame with no utility would actually work, DE managed to make one that does and actually compares to Vauban's usefulness in CC.

 

Don't blame the design council for something they actually didn't have a say in.

 

Wait til the other frames get a buff to be on par with Nova and Vauban, THEN you may compare Nova to the other frames.

I did participate. It is both the DC's fault and DE -- DC for voting on skills that didn't offer much in the way of synergy or createfulness, DE for leaving us with poorly constructed polls. All of the abilities, for the most part, do what the Design Council submissions intended to-- They've just been buffed into hell. Really, DE probably could have done nothing else to make this frame useful rather than just buff the skills to oblivion.

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Aerroon

Aerroon

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So you would like Nova to be more like Loki (completely useless - and to all of those who start jumping in here about S#&$, please don't, you are just wrong).

 

Frost, Vauban and Rhino are far far far far far better than Nova is. You could probably also add Nyx to that list. Look at T3 void defense and what the compositions you find there - look at the ones you find most commonly and then ask yourself "is Nova really as strong as I thought?". Because it doesn't matter if she can deal 1000 or 10000000000 damage per ultimate on each enemy when the map you're doing is really easy.

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Volunterrorist

Volunterrorist

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You guys are missing the point. The abilities as we suggested to DE didn't leave very much room for creative thought. They didn't want the frame to be a failure, so they made the abilities really strong. Does Nova really need a 50% slow, 2x extra damage on top of the explosive damage on death?

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Blatantfool

Blatantfool

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You guys are missing the point. The abilities as we suggested to DE didn't leave very much room for creative thought. They didn't want the frame to be a failure, so they made the abilities really strong. Does Nova really need a 50% slow, 2x extra damage on top of the explosive damage on death?

 

  I don't see anything wrong with that. It is cool as hell.

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R3leaZ

R3leaZ

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Wow.

 

The Design Council only got to make up ideas of abilities and eventually choosing what DE liked the best. 100ths of pages full of choices and DE picked a few of them. Seriously, we didn't really have much choice of ourselves in the frame setup. Same goes for the names. 100ths of pages full with names and DE picks just a few of them we can choose from. (Which weren't very good imo)

 

Sorry. I didn't join the DC just to become a scapegoat.

 

I myself am a person who really prefers CC/Defensive/Supportive over damage. So my frame choices are mainly Nyx (MC, Chaos), Rhino (Stomp, Roar), Frost (Snow Globe), Loki (Radial Disarm, Decoy)

Edited by R3leaZ
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VinceBlood

VinceBlood

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You guys are missing the point. The abilities as we suggested to DE didn't leave very much room for creative thought. They didn't want the frame to be a failure, so they made the abilities really strong. Does Nova really need a 50% slow, 2x extra damage on top of the explosive damage on death?

 

Yes, because Nova dies if you look at her funny.  She's meant to be a swift and damaging Frame.

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Gravy

Gravy

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You guys are missing the point. The abilities as we suggested to DE didn't leave very much room for creative thought. They didn't want the frame to be a failure, so they made the abilities really strong. Does Nova really need a 50% slow, 2x extra damage on top of the explosive damage on death?

I guess you're one of the very few odd ones out of the whole design council.

Just close you eyes and pretend you never seen Nova and let the others enjoy on what they vote for. 

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Volunterrorist

Volunterrorist

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  I don't see anything wrong with that. It is cool as hell.

So I suppose to fix Ember, we should make her ult also slow enemies for 50%, take 2x as much damage, and have the dot damage spread to any enemies that are within 10 meters of the currently affected targets (which could then bounce back ontop of the originally affected targets, for a stackign effect?)

 

Sure, that would be cool and it would make Ember really strong and useful.. but it would just be another overpowered ultimate.

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Volunterrorist

Volunterrorist

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Yes, because Nova dies if you look at her funny.  She's meant to be a swift and damaging Frame.

 

Arguments like this tend to be pretty pointless. In most games with even decent teamwork, the enemies are already CC'd by Bastille or Pull, or damage is beign blocked by snowglobe.

 

So, your argument for giving her an incredibly strong ult is because she has a little less shields than everyone else? In that case, we might as well make Loki's invis make him do 10x as much damage as normal while melee.

Edited by Volunterrorist
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R3leaZ

R3leaZ

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So I suppose to fix Ember, we should make her ult also slow enemies for 50%, take 2x as much damage, and have the dot damage spread to any enemies that are within 10 meters of the currently affected targets (which could then bounce back ontop of the originally affected targets, for a stackign effect?)

 

Sure, that would be cool and it would make Ember really strong and useful.. but it would just be another overpowered ultimate.

Her abilities are strong because she herself is quite fragile.

 

Also keep in mind that Nova is a Nuke/Caster focused Warframe while Loki is a supportive/distractive Warframe. They have different focuses and Loki is far from useless if you use him right.

 

EDIT: also your post up there^ already shows why she feels strong. Teamplay will almost always cover up a Warframe's weakness.

Edited by R3leaZ
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Phatose

Phatose

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Arguments like this tend to be pretty pointless. In most games with even decent teamwork, the enemies are already CC'd by Bastille or Pull, or damage is beign blocked by snowglobe.

 

So, your argument for giving her an incredibly strong ult is because she has a little less shields than everyone else? In that case, we might as well make Loki's invis make him do 10x as much damage as normal while melee.

 

If you're not defense camping, you can't rely on your enemies being CCed. 

 

The problem is not with Nova.  The problem is that everybody runs Xini over and over again.

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Volunterrorist

Volunterrorist

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If you're not defense camping, you can't rely on your enemies being CCed. 

 

The problem is not with Nova.  The problem is that everybody runs Xini over and over again.

No, the problem is still with Nova. You can still CC enemies in normal missions quite easily. Mag's pull still works wonders, Frost's snowglobe still works wonders, Nyx's Chaos still works wonders. The only one that really loses some effectiveness is Bastille, but it's still quite good. With energy artifacts you can spam any and all of these abilities. I don't even know what game you are playing if you think CC doesnt work in normal missions..

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DaftMeat

DaftMeat

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Disagree.

I was happy with the powers, except Wormhole. I hated the name picked and still do. Regardless, the frame turned out better than I expected. It plays well, offers utility and teamwork, and she's fun.

While the DC process is not perfect, that is the main problem in any democracy: being in the minority opinion. Nova is not a failure in any sense, IMO.

But her name still sucks...

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