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Plains of Eidolon Distances & Weapons!


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2 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Personally I'd like them to get rid of the weird combo thing and just give snipers a substantial buff. I mean, who ever complained that snipers were stealing all the kills?

The combo, IMO, is a good mechanic. It rewards skill/accuracy. Perhaps the window should be increased on some of them, but that's about it. They don't need a substantial buff! They keep up with or exceed all my other weapons, and my friends' weapons. Just because they're unpopular doesn't mean they're not powerful.

2 hours ago, PoisonHD said:

Not really, bows would have their place in shorter range engagements (Yes I saw you said you use Snipers short range as well), not everybody can deal with the zoom levels on a sniper at short range, so they would go for the bows. 

I personally love Snipers in Warframe, but I also think using bows is extremely satisfying, and a lot easier at shorter ranges.

I'd imagine most people would probably blindly follow higher DPS should that buff occur. That's usually how this community works. But I totally understand how you feel on a personal level.

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I agree that the weapon sway while in-scope with sniper rifles is upsetting and unnecessary. Not to mention it doesn't fit...

Spoiler

Are we meant to believe that we can't hold a sniper rifle perfectly still with a little effort when our warframes can stand stock still while they're parked and our operators are walking around?

 

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What about fixing the problems snipers currently have instead of pseudo nerfing all other weapons?

As a sniper lover myself, with vulkar being my 2nd most used weapon (and combining it with vulkar wraith turns it into my most used), snipers still have flaws (scope multiplier forcing you to max scope, the unforgiving sniper combo, the innacuracy on hipfire and scope shake...) that we would love being reworked instead of adding a mechanic to make other weapons less suitable at great lengths -I still like this, but it's not helping snipers as it should-.

Hope to see more added to this!

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19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Hail, Tenno!

Right now, our dev team is working hard to deliver the Plains of Eidolon. But as we create and play within this open space, the change of scenery has had us looking at some of the systems that Warframe has been built upon over the last five years.

 

One of Warframe’s biggest appeals is the diverse selection of weaponry. Even within the subclasses of rifles and pistols, there is huge variety to be found, such as the distinction between projectile weapons (firing physical projectiles which move through space, like the Boltor) and hitscan weapons (firing draws an imaginary line between the gun and the point aimed at, doing damage instantly to whatever it hits, like the Soma). For obvious reasons, hitscans are very effective at long distances - this has never been an issue with Warframe’s tileset-based gameplay, but as we shot enemies from a kilometer away in the plains with our pistols, we knew something had to be done.

 

With the release of Plains of Eidolon, most weapons will have a form of damage falloff added, to reduce their effectiveness at extremely long distances. But don’t panic! This damage falloff will only be noticeable at extreme ranges (greater than 300m). Across all of our current tilesets, we were unable to find an unobstructed line of sight longer than 300m, so that is the point at which damage falloff will start. Even some of our largest tiles do not cover that distance corner-to-corner:

Pasted image at 2017_09_18 11_49 AM (1).png

Based on our assessment of all existing procedural tiles we’re extra confident that our current tileset-based gameplay will be largely unaffected. It is also worth noting that snipers will be able to fire 600m without experiencing falloff, to give them more of a purpose in this wide open terrain where long range weapons should thrive.

 

As always, we are listening to your reactions and feedback - hope you’re as excited for Plains of Eidolon as we are! If you find unobstructed distances in our current tiles that concern you, post them here!

how about prone positions that add a range/stability buff? I mean we are ignoring the fact that we need this in the game.

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Just to clarify, is it only hitscan weapons that are getting this or projectile weapons too?

I'm asking because for projectile weapons it's already challenging to hit targets at long distances (especially if the projectile is affected by gravity), so if it's not an issue, try and take this into consideration as to not have them overly restricted.

Also as a compensation, will projectile speed mods be made to extend the falloff range like they do for shotguns? It feels like a fair deal to trade in for sacrificing a damage mod.

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Damage falloff... With some weapons it makes sense, but not all.

 

If a sniper is good enough they can knock out a target over 1000m away. Current world record sniper shot is a little over 2 miles. Assault rifles can also hit targets 900m-1km away.

 

If a person has the ability to actually hit their target from that distance with one of those weapons, why get penalized for it? Just seems like a slightly pointless damage nerf for someone to focus their time on.

 

Like, shotguns OK, damage falloff because thats real, but snipers, assault rifles, they dont suffer damage falloff IRL so why in warframe? Magically super thick atmosphere?

 

I know I know, magic space ninja biomechanical flesh golems and reality dont mix well, but instead of damage falloff why not focus on bullet drop due to gravity pulling the bullet down instead?

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23 minutes ago, giantconch said:

why not focus on bullet drop due to gravity pulling the bullet down instead?

Are you read theme? 

HITSCAN WEAPON! 

"Even within the subclasses of rifles and pistols, there is huge variety to be found, such as the distinction between projectile weapons (firing physical projectiles which move through space, like the Boltor) and hitscan weapons (firing draws an imaginary line between the gun and the point aimed at, doing damage instantly to whatever it hits, like the Soma)."

It means NO BULLET, only momentary line between source of shot and target! If "hits" (crosses with target texture), then damages, if not than "fly" into oblivion

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1 hour ago, giantconch said:

Assault rifles can also hit targets 900m-1km away.

That's maximum firing range - at best. The typical effective range (the range at which you can reliably hit a target) of modern assault rifles is more like 300m - 550m.

1 hour ago, giantconch said:

If a person has the ability to actually hit their target from that distance with one of those weapons, why get penalized for it? Just seems like a slightly pointless damage nerf for someone to focus their time on.

 

Like, shotguns OK, damage falloff because thats real, but snipers, assault rifles, they dont suffer damage falloff IRL so why in warframe? Magically super thick atmosphere?

 

I know I know, magic space ninja biomechanical flesh golems and reality dont mix well, but instead of damage falloff why not focus on bullet drop due to gravity pulling the bullet down instead?

Indeed. +1.

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1 hour ago, Kurambik said:

Just to clarify, is it only hitscan weapons that are getting this or projectile weapons too?

Don't worry, this post is specifically referring to hitscan weapons (i.e. that's why the second paragraph is mainly talking about hitscan weapons [pistols] hitting enemies extremely further away than intended). Projectile weapons are unrelated, since by the exact words "projectile weapons" mean, they have travel time.

Hope that helps!~

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If this is true, this should be a separate mechanic, not tied to other forms of fallof, including Projectile speed (like you can get on rivens).

If Projectile speed found on rivens wold affect it, you will be introducing new riven meta, as well as nerfing any riven/weapon that has -projectile speed on regular maps.

I like the idea of actual physical projectile fall much more, because it will reward actual skill of players that will be able to make hits with that, instead of making it another arbitrary stat.

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If Bows fall under the Sniper category as far as damage fall-off goes, I'm sure you'll find at least a couple Ivaras with a Spring-Loaded Broadhead Daikyu navigating their arrows for maximum ranged head shots. One of the few instances where Ivara's Navigator will really come into play in my opinion, or rather, where it won't be quite as limited by tight passage ways or the sudden closing of doors (if your Bow doesn't have punchthrough, like the Lenz). Granted, I imagine you'd drain your energy dry trying to actually get to 600m for a headshot, but I'm sure you'll get close enough to at least make a better chance at it hitting. Lanka would get more love from Ivara too since its the only projectile Sniper at the moment, right? The rest are hitscan.

Practical? Probably not. Time consuming per shot? Probably so. Energy intensive? I would imagine, though I've never personally tested how much distance a full tank Navigator can actually cover. Silly fun? I think so!

Grab your Energy Pizzas, and have a squad of Ivaras just camp out by the Cetus Gates having contests over who can hit a target farther away, falloff disregarded! Max range shot competitions!

On the slightly more technical side of things, at what range would the falloff stop? Like Shotguns have a point their falloff starts, and then a point where their falloff is a flat base damage.

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Thanks for the heads up on this change.

Many of Warframes' weapons have always displayed an uncanny amount accurancy and range, which has allready made me wonder how it would not break immersion on the plains.

300 meter as max range really does sound fair for the context of the regular missions.

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49 minutes ago, Zenvarix said:

Practical? Probably not. Time consuming per shot? Probably so. Energy intensive? I would imagine, though I've never personally tested how much distance a full tank Navigator can actually cover. Silly fun? I think so!

With Primed Flow and efficiency of 160%, you can use Navigator for a surprisingly long time.  Of course only place I could do this was the Simulacrum because of the open area.  I imagine on the Plains for it to be very nice indeed.  :D

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2 hours ago, DimkaTsv said:

Are you read theme? 

HITSCAN WEAPON! 

"Even within the subclasses of rifles and pistols, there is huge variety to be found, such as the distinction between projectile weapons (firing physical projectiles which move through space, like the Boltor) and hitscan weapons (firing draws an imaginary line between the gun and the point aimed at, doing damage instantly to whatever it hits, like the Soma)."

It means NO BULLET, only momentary line between source of shot and target! If "hits" (crosses with target texture), then damages, if not than "fly" into oblivion

If they're already calculating range to target, it's not difficult to put in a simplistic calculation for bullet drop. You just say the bullet hits X cm below the reticle for every Y meters of distance. Heck, they already do something similar with accuracy.

3 hours ago, giantconch said:

Like, shotguns OK, damage falloff because thats real

I don't even think shotgun falloff makes much sense. Shotguns "falloff" irl because the shot spreads, meaning fewer bits of shot hit the target the further away the target is. That's just me being picky, I hate damage falloff in games.

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