Plains of Eidolon Distances & Weapons!

[13QZXXTTX]

Spoiler

Every other Shooter Games has it: (Destiny Video, Planetside 2 has it too).

 

I understand this is too much (troubles). LUCKY SNIPER!

 

Well, Good Luck DIGITAL EXTREMES! @[DE]Rebecca.

This is your DEcision. DO NOT OVER-DO (too much complex, and "Realism" can crumble).

My Humble Thoughts (opinion is): As Long WarFrame game-play in Plains Sniping can be done FAST, and not suffering most "Fail Game Logic" so Tennos can take the next shot (Ninja), then proceed to move out.

Spoiler

After watching this Video, I decide for myself that "Bullet Drop" or "Damage Fall-Off" would just be used in anyway for Questionable Reasons? Ruin actual Game-Play. (Unless you in Prone Position (as mentioned in the Reply Section by Tenno), and AIM = WarFrame(Very Steady) does the same thing). 

 

 

[waterdude551]

23 hours ago, JuicyButthurt said:

Bows should fall under Sniper category, but at 600 meters you have more pressing issues.

Let's be real, people will rarely engage beyond 100m.

Ivara Navigator with duration and prime flow?

[DatDarkOne]

28 minutes ago, mrrobotto67 said:

I get it and it is understandable, BUT weapons like snipers shouldn't have that fall-off. As a matter the fact, this update is a very good chance to give them a real buff, and not that combo shoot thing we have going on.

DE is saying that snipers won't have falloff until after a 600m distance.  All the other hitscan weapons would have theirs at the 300m range.  Considering that the largest map currently has a max distance of about 300m, that's not really bad for snipers to have it after 600m.  

This change is mostly to address how a secondary like the Arca Scisco could potentially outclass all sniper rifles in the Plains.  This change wouldn't really effect tile maps as none of them have a distance larger than 300m.

[fellow1]

Why Ash can't do finisher anymore on ancient healers with fatal teleport quipped?

[MirageKnight]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 6:03 PM, Killersguns said:

As long as my sniper tigris isn't nerfed

It's not going to be nerfed...it's only going to be massively outranged by true sniper weapons.

Don't worry, you'll still be able to use it for close encounters. The new map will have caves to explore and Grineer outposts to neutralize.

[Monolake]

On 20/09/2017 at 1:58 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

For obvious reasons, hitscans are very effective at long distances - this has never been an issue with Warframe’s tileset-based gameplay, but as we shot enemies from a kilometer away in the plains with our pistols, we knew something had to be done.

Yes is has been an issue that you dont acknowledge - slow projectles and spread make some weapons close-combat only but its not always taken into balance consideration (ie Cestras or Synapse are never used for their range limitation with no upsides) , then melee powercreep has overtaken close-combat weapons

And now with Plains it will be an absolute death sentence for projectile-base weapons and those with spread and range limit

Fall-off at very long distance is fine (and real bullets have that too)  BUT you need o look at projectile weapons.  For example Lanka will be completely unusable (so much for sniper with highest zoom that cant hit anything slightly moving at a distance, not to mention its shaky scope)

[Omega_DarkPotato]

41 minutes ago, Monolake said:

Yes is has been an issue that you dont acknowledge - slow projectles and spread make some weapons close-combat only but its not always taken into balance consideration (ie Cestras or Synapse are never used for their range limitation with no upsides) , then melee powercreep has overtaken close-combat weapons

And now with Plains it will be an absolute death sentence for projectile-base weapons and those with spread and range limit

Fall-off at very long distance is fine (and real bullets have that too)  BUT you need o look at projectile weapons.  For example Lanka will be completely unusable (so much for sniper with highest zoom that cant hit anything slightly moving at a distance, not to mention its shaky scope)

From what I've gathered, projectile-based weapons will not have this damage falloff, only hitscan weapons. In addition, Lanka+Ivara is the way to go on the plains of eidolon.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

3 hours ago, Omega_DarkPotato said:

From what I've gathered, projectile-based weapons will not have this damage falloff, only hitscan weapons. In addition, Lanka+Ivara is the way to go on the plains of eidolon.

Several projectile based weapons need some flight speed buffs before PoE.

[GreyEnneract]

13 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:

The combo, IMO, is a good mechanic. It rewards skill/accuracy. Perhaps the window should be increased on some of them, but that's about it. They don't need a substantial buff! They keep up with or exceed all my other weapons, and my friends' weapons. Just because they're unpopular doesn't mean they're not powerful.

I'd imagine most people would probably blindly follow higher DPS should that buff occur. That's usually how this community works. But I totally understand how you feel on a personal level.

I just don't like the timer, or that unscoping instantly loses the buff.

Should work more like the Arca Scisco, except for successive hits in general per hit up to a cap instead of on just the same enemy like the Scisco.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

I'm surprised that enemies are even drawn past 300m lol that's very far away. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

8 minutes ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

I'm surprised that enemies are even drawn past 300m lol that's very far away. 

I'm hopeful enemies are rendered at least at 600m. Thou I don't know how detailed it will look. 

[AdunSaveMe]

17 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

At least it would make sense.

Irrelevant. Logic is not a reason to make a change. Logic does not always make for fun gameplay.

[DimkaTsv]

12 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

If they're already calculating range to target, it's not difficult to put in a simplistic calculation for bullet drop. You just say the bullet hits X cm below the reticle for every Y meters of distance. Heck, they already do something similar with accuracy.

Then a beam will turn into a curve, and a mathematical calculation will be harder with each shot)

Do you want to made warframe laggy?)

[Liquid_Kobra]

on this point have the devs also thought about bows and there drop off curve id like to see them be effective  in the plains as well i always felt that the drop of curve was a bit high for such powerful and technologically advanced bows. id love to start sniping on the plains with a bow but if the curve stays as is i'm worried that it would be way to unforgiving also projectile speed is something that might need to be look at as well to make projectile weapons feel effective on the plains.

[ntyd1s]

The big issue besides infinite difference of projectile travel time is that the imaginary line of projectiles are drawn from "muzzle" to projected position of crosshair while hitscan line is drawn straight at crosshair on the center of the screen. This affects closequarter combat and firing from cover. You might as well make everything fires from either muzzle (perhaps with laser sight) or crosshair and give them different projectile speeds (bullet speed should not be infinite but that's ok for light-based firearms). Aiming errors caused by the UI should be minimized.

I am still bummed by the so-called "sniper buff" that reduce all weapon's accuracy while moving so sniper rifle became even less practical in exchange for combo buff gained by staying out of the action to snipe exclusively. So I at least hope for the mobile accuracy to be completely reverted (just hit where I aim because I can aim please).

Throwing knives secondaries also got weird aiming error with varying projectiles every 2 shots. And ruined even more by previously mentioned mobile accuracy. I wish all the initial inaccuracy are gone, trigger mode change to semi-auto and throwing is affected by "recoil" as in throwing momentum instead. Assassins' weapons should not have been most efficient when spammed. 

Long ago, glaive weapons throwing animation was ok when used behind cover because they are swung on the right-hand side, I have not seen any good in changing them to be swung from the left as it is now. (At least glaive-and-pistol mode is right)

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

This conversation has be really one sided, WF sided.. What about the enemies side? We kind stick out like a soar thumb...

With that said... my other concern is that a new player will get one shotted or shot from 600m out to a un-rendered rendered un-rendered (on again off again) enemy because of rendered distances. Lol that would be vary discouraging. My squad mates getting one timed by invisible enemies because rendering?! Yeah that is a no go!

Just a thought. 

 

[Orreven]

10 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

This conversation has be really one sided, WF sided.. What about the enemies side? We kind stick out like a soar thumb...

With that said... my other concern is that a new player will get one shotted or shot from 600m out to a un-rendered rendered un-rendered (on again off again) enemy because of rendered distances. Lol that would be vary discouraging. My squad mates getting one timed by invisible enemies because rendering?! Yeah that is a no go!

Just a thought. 

 

The OP mentioned sniping enemies from a kilometer out, so the render distance won't be cutting in and out at 600 meters.  On the other hand, the alert range of enemies is pretty small, when we're talking on this sort of scale.  Because of this, it shouldn't be an issue except in rare circumstances.

[tarfeef101]

7 hours ago, GreyEnneract said:

I just don't like the timer, or that unscoping instantly loses the buff.

Should work more like the Arca Scisco, except for successive hits in general per hit up to a cap instead of on just the same enemy like the Scisco.

Well the timer is basically the same thing as the scisco, they're both a time limited thing. Just the snipers get all the time on one hit, as opposed to only part of it. and unscoping doesn't lose the buff... Actually test that. It doesn't. As someone who uses snipers the majority of the time, you should trust me on that. Perhaps you're just using a rubico or something with a really short timer.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

9 minutes ago, Orreven said:

 kilometer out

Hope you're right, because being shot at from an enemy(s) at a kilometer or even 600 meters gonna be hard to know where it's coming from. 

Especially if a squad member accidentally agros an npc. 

[GreyEnneract]

1 minute ago, tarfeef101 said:

Well the timer is basically the same thing as the scisco, they're both a time limited thing. Just the snipers get all the time on one hit, as opposed to only part of it. and unscoping doesn't lose the buff... Actually test that. It doesn't. As someone who uses snipers the majority of the time, you should trust me on that. Perhaps you're just using a rubico or something with a really short timer.

Tested it on the Lanka. It's either bugged or intended.

[tarfeef101]

Just now, GreyEnneract said:

Tested it on the Lanka. It's either bugged or intended.

Bugged then, or you're doing something wrong. Maybe using multishot and the multishot projectile misses. That happens to me a lot on the lanka, because I zoom out too fast after shooting. 

But I can promise that this is not a thing that normally happens.

[CpTKugelHagel]

On 20.9.2017 at 12:11 AM, Valiant said:

Think I'm more interested in the Focus 2.0 dev workshop thread at the moment.

is there one?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 minutes ago, CpTKugelHagel said:

is there one?

Not yet

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, tarfeef101 said:

Bugged then, or you're doing something wrong. Maybe using multishot and the multishot projectile misses. That happens to me a lot on the lanka, because I zoom out too fast after shooting. 

But I can promise that this is not a thing that normally happens.

Very strange. I'll test without MS later on.

Also, the Scisco stacks up to a cap of 5 for it's mechanic, whereas Snipers work more similar to Melee combos.

I personally would rather have it work similar to the Scisco with a ~10 hit cap, instead of building up 3x the amount of hits as the previous combo multiplier to increase it.

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

personally would rather have it work similar to the Scisco with a ~10 hit cap, instead of building up 3x the amount of hits as the previous combo multiplier to increase it.

Me too