forget Archwing for PoE, it's time to bring on the mounts!

[Saraphys]

4 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Why have open world games with both cars/trucks/bikes/motorcycles and helicopters/planes?

Answer that question, and you answer the question of why someone would want more than just Archwings as an option.

Because in GTA, Horizon Zero Dawn, Assassin's Creed, and any of those other game... They dont give you wings to just fly around with, on your own momentum.

Ground vehicles give you greater momentum on the ground.
Aerial vehicles give you three-dimensional movement by flying in the air.
...but, both are limited to whatever type of movement said vehicle gives you, and both frequently have their own health...meaning they can be destroyed, requiring you to find or purchase a new one.

The way those Open World games work is not the same as how Warframe works. And if you compare Warframe to Destiny...
Firstly, WHY?!
Secondly, A Sparrow is a pale comparison too an Archwing... we currently have 4 (+1 Prime) Archwings that provide 4 different roles for players to utilise when using Archwing; Odonata is balanced for offence and defence, Elytron is geared for offence, Itzal is geared towards control, and Amesha is geared towards support and healing... in effect, these Archwings reflect the Warframes Excalibur, Rhino, Loki, and Trinity in theme.

But lets compare to your example... Warframe to Horizon: Zero Dawn...
Firstly,
H:ZD was made as an open-world game from its inception, its game engine is built on that premise, and its designed for that. Within the game, their is a reason why human's are technologically behind, and have magic hacking sticks that allow them to take over robo-fauna that they can then use as mounts. But Warframe was not designed as an open world game, its engine was not built for that purpose, and we are not a stunted stone-age tribe of humans... we play Tenno, transferring our consciousness into Golden Golem's that allow us to unleash our Void power in varying different ways. We fight on multiple planets, under-water, in space, and in the horrowing warp of the Void itself.
Secondly,
H:ZD was designed so that you could hack these robo-fauna and use them as mounts. Warframe updated its engine so that we had the Archwing, which we could use in Space...then underwater...and soon the Open Plains of Eidolon. We dont need to capture an Archwing each time we want to take off with great haste...its always there, as the Odonata is given too us in the Archwing Quest. The Archwing gives us the ability to move under our own control...it is literally WINGS on our Warframe that give us a new set of powers to utilise.

I...
I just cant imagine why anyone would want to get rid of wings on their Warframe, for a stupid bike/jeep/tank/whatever. It makes no sense, when we are already Instruments of Golden Godlike Power! What could a tank do for you that you cant already do? My LOKI can -and HAS- killed every boss in Warframe; so has my Limbo... What could a TANK do that I already cant?
*sigh*

I really hope this has conveyed my position here...
((P.s. My tone is not one of anger or frustration, it is one of passion and the logic of what is compared too with Warframe and open-world games. Please do not infer an antagonising tone in anything Iv wrote here, as that was never part of the mindset that wrote this "wall-of-text!" :) Thank you! ))

[DatDarkOne]

9 minutes ago, Saraphys said:

I just cant imagine why anyone would want to get rid of wings on their Warframe, for a stupid bike/jeep/tank/whatever. It makes no sense, when we are already Instruments of Golden Godlike Power! What could a tank do for you that you cant already do? My LOKI can -and HAS- killed every boss in Warframe; so has my Limbo... What could a TANK do that I already cant?

Hehe, this is the exact thing I referenced when I mentioned Saint's Row IV and getting your super powers.  Once you become Superman, using a car just seems like such a downgrade.  :D  Hence because our Warframes are already so fast and agile, anything less than an ArchWing just isn't enough.  

[nickelshark]

Maybe sometime down the road. I think it would be pretty neat and they could have unique traits versus archwing.

On more serious note, can ember be a mount ;-)

[o.0-]

If it ever does occur, I'm already ready already:

Spoiler

 

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, Saraphys said:

Because in GTA, Horizon Zero Dawn, Assassin's Creed, and any of those other game... They dont give you wings to just fly around with, on your own momentum.

Ground vehicles give you greater momentum on the ground.
Aerial vehicles give you three-dimensional movement by flying in the air.
...but, both are limited to whatever type of movement said vehicle gives you, and both frequently have their own health...meaning they can be destroyed, requiring you to find or purchase a new one.

The way those Open World games work is not the same as how Warframe works. And if you compare Warframe to Destiny...
Firstly, WHY?!
Secondly, A Sparrow is a pale comparison too an Archwing... we currently have 4 (+1 Prime) Archwings that provide 4 different roles for players to utilise when using Archwing; Odonata is balanced for offence and defence, Elytron is geared for offence, Itzal is geared towards control, and Amesha is geared towards support and healing... in effect, these Archwings reflect the Warframes Excalibur, Rhino, Loki, and Trinity in theme.

But lets compare to your example... Warframe to Horizon: Zero Dawn...
Firstly,
H:ZD was made as an open-world game from its inception, its game engine is built on that premise, and its designed for that. Within the game, their is a reason why human's are technologically behind, and have magic hacking sticks that allow them to take over robo-fauna that they can then use as mounts. But Warframe was not designed as an open world game, its engine was not built for that purpose, and we are not a stunted stone-age tribe of humans... we play Tenno, transferring our consciousness into Golden Golem's that allow us to unleash our Void power in varying different ways. We fight on multiple planets, under-water, in space, and in the horrowing warp of the Void itself.
Secondly,
H:ZD was designed so that you could hack these robo-fauna and use them as mounts. Warframe updated its engine so that we had the Archwing, which we could use in Space...then underwater...and soon the Open Plains of Eidolon. We dont need to capture an Archwing each time we want to take off with great haste...its always there, as the Odonata is given too us in the Archwing Quest. The Archwing gives us the ability to move under our own control...it is literally WINGS on our Warframe that give us a new set of powers to utilise.

I...
I just cant imagine why anyone would want to get rid of wings on their Warframe, for a stupid bike/jeep/tank/whatever. It makes no sense, when we are already Instruments of Golden Godlike Power! What could a tank do for you that you cant already do? My LOKI can -and HAS- killed every boss in Warframe; so has my Limbo... What could a TANK do that I already cant?
*sigh*

I really hope this has conveyed my position here...
((P.s. My tone is not one of anger or frustration, it is one of passion and the logic of what is compared too with Warframe and open-world games. Please do not infer an antagonising tone in anything Iv wrote here, as that was never part of the mindset that wrote this "wall-of-text!" :) Thank you! ))

No one wants to get rid of Archwings. No one. You don't understand that people want diverse ways of playing the game. It's why players like having more than one Warframe, more than one weapon, more than one sentinel, kubrow, kavat, and archwing in the game. That's not a concept that is foreign to gaming, only to the Warframe community. Some people happen to believe that ground vehicles are fun. That's not a foreign concept. It's not about how powerful they are. It's not about whether or nothing something else exists already that can let you fly. It's not about whether something else exists that is faster. It's about having more than one way of doing things. With your logic, what's the point of having more than one time of mission, more than one type of weapon, more than one type of sentinel, or kubrow, or kavat? What's the point if the only thing that matters is how powerful we are and how fast we can go? What's the point of even having Plains of Eidolon in the game? There is nothing significant that PoE will add that will be greatly different than what we can already do in the game. We already have tilesets, enemies, weapons, archwings, Syndicates, bosses to fight (each with their own invincibility phases), and resources to farm. So why have anything else added to the game at all? Why are people so excited about Excalibur Umbra? We already have OP frames. What possible reason would someone have for wanting yet another Warframe?! Just use the existing Warframes! Just use the existing weapons! You want an open map? Screw that! Just play on the existing maps!

You may not be frustrated, but I am. I'm frustrated that so many people in this community have a problem with a few people suggesting that DE give us more options to play. This same mentality is what led people a year ago to criticize anyone who even dared to suggest that Warframe should add an open world map to the game. And you know the sad thing? Once DE announced Plains of Eidolon, people here acted as if they were perfectly fine with the idea, as if they never were opposed to the idea of an open world. If DE tomorrow announces that there will be ground vehicles in the game, most people here will go along with it just because DE said it. That is frustrating to me. This community is so opposed to adding anything new to the game until DE announces something new. And for what? Because DE didn't announce it themselves? Because they just don't like anything that they're not not familiar with? Because they're afraid of possibly wanting something that DE themselves haven't said they wanted? What is it? What is the impetus behind immediately putting down suggestions that want to see something new in the game? By your own logic, DE should've never added archwings to the game because our Warframes were already powerful. What could an archwing do that our powerful Warframe couldn't already do? I'm sorry for the long wall of text, but this mentality really frustrates me.

Edited September 22, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[Arniox]

11 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

archwing are our mounts , you want mouts ? grind your arch-gear

 

edit : archwing needs more love more content , stop hating on something what needs attention and PoE is bringing it

Agree. I'm super excited that archwing and operators are getting the love they deserve. Stop hating on these things before we have even seen the changes at all

[OniDax]

8 minutes ago, Arniox said:

Agree. I'm super excited that archwing and operators are getting the love they deserve. Stop hating on these things before we have even seen the changes at all

I have yet to see where the OP said he hated Archwing. Also, how is Archwing changing or improving with Plains of Eidolon? All DE has said is that the movement will slightly change to account for it being in air instead of space. Nothing more than that. It's still the same old archwing.

[Saraphys]

14 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

You may not be frustrated, but I am. I'm frustrated that so many people in this community have a problem with a few people suggesting that DE give us more options to play. This same mentality is what led people a year ago to criticize anyone who even dared to suggest that Warframe should add an open world map to the game. And you know the sad thing? Once DE announced Plains of Eidolon, people here acted as if they were perfectly fine with the idea, as if they never were opposed to the idea of an open world. If DE tomorrow announces that there will be ground vehicles in the game, most people here will go along with it just because DE said it. That is frustrating to me. This community is so opposed to adding anything new to the game until DE announces something new. And for what? Because DE didn't announce it themselves? Because they just don't like anything that they're not not familiar with? Because they're afraid of possibly wanting something that DE themselves haven't said they wanted? What is it? What is the impetus behind immediately putting down suggestions that want to see something new in the game? By your own logic, DE should've never added archwings to the game because our Warframes were already powerful. What could an archwing do that our powerful Warframe couldn't already do? I'm sorry for the long wall of text, but this mentality really frustrates me.

(Bolded the texts of the parts i'll be addressing)

Fortune favours my indifference to the forums, rarely posting means I dont fall into either of these camps of the community you speak of :D HAHA.
But, for honesties sake, I actually did want an open world map...but I would have preferred it in the Tau system, waging an endless war in the glow of the Blue Star (he's hopin' for that in the future :D ). Ofcourse, having said that, you can probably appreciate my position on content in Warframe being Lore-respectful ("Hi, im part of the community that still taps the "Hayden" script on my warframe before going into battle...FOR HAYDEN TENNO!" :D lol).

And thats not entirely true... By my own logic, Archwings fill the space of the one weakness our Warframe's possess...the ability to sustain themselves "IN SPACE" or underwater; our Archwings have filled that void...and they were already lore-present in the Mag Prime codex :D (I realise some people want to say that it was more likely referring to a syandana then the Archwings, but back then when Space Mum would respond to my messages, she had hinted at it NOT being a syandana).
Our Landing Craft, on the other hand... that change of multiple "skins" of our outward craft does bother me. Im ok with the Liset and the Liset Prime (the latter I just imagine I recovered an Axi-era Liset, rather then a Meso or Lith-era Liset :D ), but the others bother me as they dont really seem like they fit into a lore-wise reason for being. As much as the Manta-ray looking one looks really kool, I still use the Liset (Prime) as my Landing Craft. So I do have my limits to what I accept from DE and what I dont; but as it stands, there's no reason why Tenno should have a ground vehicle for the open world map(s).

:)

[Fylas]

47 minutes ago, Saraphys said:

Ofcourse, having said that, you can probably appreciate my position on content in Warframe being Lore-respectful ("Hi, im part of the community that still taps the "Hayden" script on my warframe before going into battle...FOR HAYDEN TENNO!" :D lol).

does that bring good luck? nobody told me about that ever! :T do you tap it with your mouse? or with your finger on the monitor? do you tap it with a specific kind of item? :O 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Fylas

[Saraphys]

Just now, Fylas said:

does that bring good luck? nobody told me about that ever! :T do you tap it with your mouse? or with your finger on the monitor? do you tap it with a specific kind of item? :O 

I rotate around my Warframe when I load up the game until I find the Hayden script, then tap my monitor.
Does it bring good luck? Hell if I know... Iv been playing so long that my fighting ability is muscle memory :D HAHA!

[Arniox]

14 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

I have yet to see where the OP said he hated Archwing. Also, how is Archwing changing or improving with Plains of Eidolon? All DE has said is that the movement will slightly change to account for it being in air instead of space. Nothing more than that. It's still the same old archwing.

well it's finally being put into normal gameplay. This is something I've wanted for a long time and I 'm very happy they're doing so. I just hope they add some sort of arhcwing integration beyond just physical use. I'de like to be able to farm normal archwing mods, or new ones in the plains.

[Fylas]

26 minutes ago, Arniox said:

well it's finally being put into normal gameplay. This is something I've wanted for a long time and I 'm very happy they're doing so. I just hope they add some sort of arhcwing integration beyond just physical use. I'de like to be able to farm normal archwing mods, or new ones in the plains.

you know CONSTANTLY ROLLING along the axis half the time is quite nice, during non space missions like ground , air or underwater. like in trench runs. and being able to switch to 6 degrees on demand with a key is way better then trying to make 6 degrees work all the time. this is a great improvement :D :D I LUUUUUVIIIT :D :D

 

[PrVonTuckIII]

15 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

I have yet to see where the OP said he hated Archwing. Also, how is Archwing changing or improving with Plains of Eidolon? All DE has said is that the movement will slightly change to account for it being in air instead of space. Nothing more than that. It's still the same old archwing.

No, not really. The mechanics are the same, but one of the chief complaints with Archwing was how disconnected it was from normal gameplay. I, as do many, see the PoE as a way of rectifying that issue. It's most certainly a step forward for Archwing.

[Mak_Gohae]

18 hours ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

If it ever does occur, I'm already ready already:

  Hide contents

 

i've been practicing, too.

[OniDax]

16 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

No, not really. The mechanics are the same, but one of the chief complaints with Archwing was how disconnected it was from normal gameplay. I, as do many, see the PoE as a way of rectifying that issue. It's most certainly a step forward for Archwing.

Oh, I'm glad Archwing is in the air and not just in space now. I've wanted that for years. I just don't want, and have never wanted, Archwing to be the only means of transportation besides walking.

[PrVonTuckIII]

8 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Oh, I'm glad Archwing is in the air and not just in space now. I've wanted that for years. I just don't want, and have never wanted, Archwing to be the only means of transportation besides walking.

While I certainly wouldn't discourage more options, I think it's more a question of "why?". Anything they introduce will be next to useless anywhere else, a gimmick, or completely unused in favour of normal travel/Archwing. Especially considering how many systems have been abandoned so, I think it's better if they stick to what they have, rather than throw in more things that will likely be ignored by many, and more importantly, ignored by the devs in the event of a needed fix.

[OniDax]

25 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

While I certainly wouldn't discourage more options, I think it's more a question of "why?". Anything they introduce will be next to useless anywhere else, a gimmick, or completely unused in favour of normal travel/Archwing. Especially considering how many systems have been abandoned so, I think it's better if they stick to what they have, rather than throw in more things that will likely be ignored by many, and more importantly, ignored by the devs in the event of a needed fix.

Giving players more options, to provide players with more ways to play the game and to approach landscape missions, to encourage diversity of gameplay, is the "why".

[Mak_Gohae]

12 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

While I certainly wouldn't discourage more options, I think it's more a question of "why?". Anything they introduce will be next to useless anywhere else, a gimmick, or completely unused in favour of normal travel/Archwing. Especially considering how many systems have been abandoned so, I think it's better if they stick to what they have, rather than throw in more things that will likely be ignored by many, and more importantly, ignored by the devs in the event of a needed fix.

this, is, Warframe! This is what they constantly do. Add stuff that isnt completely finish to see what they can do.

And they can add all sorts of stuff to this. Like the mounts can help you with digging. That cave system, dont know how big it is but since this is a persistent world maybe you can add waypoints with them. So you can remember where you last where. We can have mount racing? All sorts of stuff.

[Culaio]

I fully support mounts and vehicles, and I am saying as fan of archwing who wants to see more of archwing, reason for that is more variety ways to travel will make plains feel more alive, second thing I want to mention is that DE hinted that archwing flight will be somehow limited, either by somekind of timer or fuel(as archwing fan this disappoint me).

Yes in games with super powers you generally travel with those super powers(if you can) but even then from time to time you try to travel with vehicle when you want to do something different, traveling in big open areas is not always about going from point A to B, its also about travel itself and what you see during travel, yes most warframe players is pretty much conditioned to reach goal as fast as possible but if that continues to be the case the plains will get boring for them VERY fast, I was player like that I with time I decided to slow down and LOOK at tilesets I am playing in.

If GTA players only focused on reaching goal as fast possible then they also would only use  planes/helicopters, but they dont because there is FUN in traveling on land.

Here is example of how you can fun in warframe with mount: Imagine traveling on horse-like mount(genetically enginnered by orokin) with mesa with vasto on your hip and sybaris on your back, traveling on desert-like landscape, possibly on mars. 

Yes I am recreating wild west feeling in warframe but it would actually fit warframe since warframe universe likes combine different cultures with sci-fi, look at baro's people. and combining wild west with sci-fi is nothing new and can be done well, as we see with space western genre in fiction. trigun anime is one of my favorite examples of space westerns.

 

I think it would be awesome if we could fight enemies traveling with vehicles from our mount or vehicle :)

So yeah I think that different planets should have different means of traveling on them

Edited September 23, 2017 by Culaio

[SpoonyBrad]

9 hours ago, Culaio said:

So yeah I think that different planets should have different means of traveling on them

My apologies if this is taking a statement out of context, but YES. EXACTLY. THIS.

Mounts could be a genuinely interesting mechanic, particularly if only some were usable on certain planets (*cough*grindframe*cough*). If I (either in my warframe, or as operator) could ride my kavat into battle (or the scaled up version a warframe would need; Hek, even give him a mind of his own that my aim has to compensate for if I go into scoped mode) I would love it. PoE isn't going to be a full blown open world (though it is opening things up a lot, supposedly), and is already very far into development, so I don't expect this idea to get all that much traction right now, but making different planets act differently would add both replay value and grind value for the different pets you'd want as mounts (and also a whole lotta work for the dev team, admittedly).

Considering that I can already have a companion die mid-mission, then bring it (or rather, a clone of it) into the next mission with no signs of damage, it's clear Orokin biotech is extremely advanced (and we're not even getting into the warframes themselves), so there's no lore violation to cloning a super-sized version of a pet (and they might even be cuter when scaled to or beyond the size of horses). Yes, you also have your archwing, and yes, it's extremely powerful, but it's also extremely loud (even the Itzal); that last part does not seem to be compatible with more stealth-based objectives. As other Tenno have mentioned, a more open world means more open options; the ability to use oversized clones of existing companions as mounts in conditions where the archwing might be unsuitable, or even simply unfun (I actually like the archwing gameplay and wish DE would expand on it, but it's rather OP at times) gives more options. (And once the options have been given, they can be taken away by a companion's unsuitability for a particular environment; not sure if I'd support a hard wall to the effect of "nope, no kubrow here", but making it clear that, tactically, there's a better option just waiting for you to grind it? A-OK). Most existing mission tilesets are already a touch tricky for higher-speed frames to navigate (due to sprinting/bullet-jumping past a door and needing to pull a 180), so mounts that are actually even faster would probably need to await a significant revamp, but could also make an interesting mechanic if handled well.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

NO

Spoiler

NO

Spoiler

NO

Spoiler

NO

 

 

 

 

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

13 hours ago, Culaio said:

I fully support mounts and vehicles, and I am saying as fan of archwing who wants to see more of archwing, reason for that is more variety ways to travel will make plains feel more alive, second thing I want to mention is that DE hinted that archwing flight will be somehow limited, either by somekind of timer or fuel(as archwing fan this disappoint me).

Yes in games with super powers you generally travel with those super powers(if you can) but even then from time to time you try to travel with vehicle when you want to do something different, traveling in big open areas is not always about going from point A to B, its also about travel itself and what you see during travel, yes most warframe players is pretty much conditioned to reach goal as fast as possible but if that continues to be the case the plains will get boring for them VERY fast, I was player like that I with time I decided to slow down and LOOK at tilesets I am playing in.

If GTA players only focused on reaching goal as fast possible then they also would only use  planes/helicopters, but they dont because there is FUN in traveling on land.

Here is example of how you can fun in warframe with mount: Imagine traveling on horse-like mount(genetically enginnered by orokin) with mesa with vasto on your hip and sybaris on your back, traveling on desert-like landscape, possibly on mars. 

Yes I am recreating wild west feeling in warframe but it would actually fit warframe since warframe universe likes combine different cultures with sci-fi, look at baro's people. and combining wild west with sci-fi is nothing new and can be done well, as we see with space western genre in fiction. trigun anime is one of my favorite examples of space westerns.

 

I think it would be awesome if we could fight enemies traveling with vehicles from our mount or vehicle :)

So yeah I think that different planets should have different means of traveling on them

Trigun, this feels or looks alot like Trigun

 

...No

[OniDax]

Most of you guys need to play some open world games. Pick up Ghost Recon Wildlands or MGSV or Horizon Zero Dawn, just some open world game that has multiple vehicles/mounts. You guys act like having multiple ways of moving around is problematic or unnecessary, and seems like you all don't have much experience at all with actual non-MMO open world games. It might do you a world of good to actually try one out.

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

25 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Most of you guys need to play some open world games. Pick up Ghost Recon Wildlands or MGSV or Horizon Zero Dawn, just some open world game that has multiple vehicles/mounts. You guys act like having multiple ways of moving around is problematic or unnecessary, and seems like you all don't have much experience at all with actual non-MMO open world games. It might do you a world of good to actually try one out.

I think Warframe should only use Archwings, no pointless mounts at all, we're space ninjas, not dragon riders, this isnt WoW

Warframe should stay its own unique way, no dumb mounts

 

What they should do is make the Archwing thing slightly more synergized though, with an unlimited use, instead of a limited resource amount

From what i saw, its a new tool you have to craft, probably makes 10, like the air support beacons, but it really should be faster, with an unlimited use instead

 

Warframes are basically mounts anyways, and they move a whole lot faster than any random cat beast/dragon beast/or "Griffin"

 

But riding a moa should be added just because it'd be funny, but the moa would move super super slow, just because, like 0.75 sprint speed

 

Edited September 24, 2017 by (PS4)Tomplexthis

[Culaio]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

NO

  Reveal hidden contents

NO

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NO

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NO

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

Trigun, this feels or looks alot like Trigun

 

...No

but seriously if you are going to reject it at least give a reason for that, curretly your response looks like this: "no, because I said so", you have right to have your own opinion about this but your current response dont add anything to discussion.

and now to continue the discussion, trigun was just a example of sci-fi combined with western. Warframe always combined elements of sci-fi and different cultures, and we already have wild west themed stuff in warframe like frame Mesa, side arm vasto or primary weapon sybaris.

if you want different examples:

-firefly tv series, it combines sci-fi with western really well. 

-borderlands

-starcraft(especially starcraft 2), terran faction, saloons, revolvers, and Western-style musical cues. The single-player campaign for the first installment, Wings of Liberty, even has a cantina on a starship where "Sweet Home Alabama" plays on a jukebox. Not to mention "Free Bird".

and here are pics from space western  game that is in steam early access, dunno if it will be good game but pics kinda show what I have in mind for space western: