PoE : get rid of hitscan too.

[BrazilianJoe]

Devs have stated that they are getting damage falloff implemented in all weapons. 

Well, if you are going that route, I think it would make sense to also get rid of hitscan and give all bullets travel time.

Hitscan works differently than projectiles, and it has very different effects with different warframe powers. 

Bringing projectiles travel time to all weapons would bring consistency, and would make distances all the more important with PoE.

As a rule of thumb, I think current hitscan weapons would more or less be 1.5-2.0x faster than Boltor Prime. 

Snipers and sniper pistols would be twice as fast (or more) as other weapons. 

This would potentially open up new classes of mods. projectile travel speed would be more important, but there would also be corrupted mods which increase short-range damage but increase falloff, or increase speed but also recoil, and other combinations of corrupted traits. 

[Zeyez]

hitscan is cheaper to calculate than projectiles, since the game doesn't need to calculate the distance, speed, gravity... that the bullets have in the air

 

probably a lot of people won't use akstilletto prime if wasn't instant

[Xaero]

If hitscan will ever be changed, bullet travel time should match current situation (instant hit) and after, let's say, 300m speed falls off. That I would be ok with.

[GrayArchon]

On 22/09/2017 at 10:12 AM, BrazilianJoe said:

This would potentially open up new classes of mods. projectile travel speed would be more important, but there would also be corrupted mods which increase short-range damage but increase falloff, or increase speed but also recoil, and other combinations of corrupted traits. 

I feel like weapon mod slots are already packed enough as it is. I've tried adding flight speed to things like the Prisma Angstrum but it just gimps the damage. Also, there haven't been any new corrupted mods since the very first batch, four years ago. I highly doubt they'll release more.

EDIT: Apparently I'm very wrong about no new corrupted mods.

Edited September 25, 2017 by GrayArchon

[BrazilianJoe]

2 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

If hitscan will ever be changed, bullet travel time should match current situation (instant hit) and after, let's say, 300m speed falls off. That I would be ok with.

There could be a speed falloff. 

[BrazilianJoe]

9 minutes ago, Zeyez said:

hitscan is cheaper to calculate than projectiles, since the game doesn't need to calculate the distance, speed, gravity... that the bullets have in the air

 

probably a lot of people won't use akstilletto prime if wasn't instant

Yeah but if the current hitscan are converted into very fast projectiles, they would also hit their target faster, thus not requiring too much extra processing time.

As said, the idea is to have current hitscan weapons faster than the higher profile current projectile weapons, so it is not felt as much.

 

[[DE]Grzegorz]

15 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

If hitscan will ever be changed, bullet travel time should match current situation (instant hit) and after, let's say, 300m speed falls off. That I would be ok with.

This might be the perfect approach, bullets would be spawned at distance X if the hitscan ray was uninterrupted on its way there, afaik Rust uses such approach.
Additionally, such change if applied to all guns around would make projectile weapons consistent for once, instead of randomly shooting at completely inane angles because the range compensation algorithm stalled for a while.

[BrazilianJoe]

I personally wouldn't mind travel time starting at the muzzle. If it's done with a very high speed and with speed falloff, it would hardly be noticeable in the close quarters. 

[Dwolfknight]

36 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

If hitscan will ever be changed, bullet travel time should match current situation (instant hit) and after, let's say, 300m speed falls off. That I would be ok with.

Taking the same approach as the damage fall of at 300 the bullet travel speed should be made so it's not noticeable at close quarters but you start to have to lead slightly at 150 meters and a lot at 300.

[Katinka]

37 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

Also, there haven't been any new corrupted mods since the very first batch, four years ago

Not true.  Corrupted mods were first added in update 10.3 and there were 16 of them.  Another 6 were added in Update 15 (Anemic Agility, Vile Acceleration, Frail Momentum, Critical Deceleration, Creeping Bullseye & Transient Fortitude) and Depleted Reload was added by itself in Update 17.

[Stoner]

44 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

Also, there haven't been any new corrupted mods since the very first batch, four years ago. I highly doubt they'll release more.

Incorrect. They released a bunch like Vile Acceleration, Transient Fortitude, Depleted Reload and more after the first batch.

Got ninja'd by Katinka, nevermind. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Stoner74

[Dwolfknight]

Just now, Katinka said:

 Depleted Reload was added by itself in Update 17.

 

Interesting, I got this one yesterday and was wondering why I never saw it.

[BoomyGordo]

I honestly think this would be a really bad idea

[Stoner]

Honestly I highly doubt they want to go 3 weeks without updates. That's why I think they'll release it next week even if there is small bugs left to be fixed. The end of the contest has nothing to do with the release date imo. Hell, maybe it just means by then the update will be out who knows.

[BoomyGordo]

Just now, Stoner74 said:

Honestly I highly doubt they want to go 3 weeks without updates. That's why I think they'll release it next week even if there is small bugs left to be fixed. The end of the contest has nothing to do with the release date imo. Hell, maybe it just means by then the update will be out who knows.

wrong thread.. thats not at all what this thread is about

[Stoner]

Just now, --Laughing-Soul-- said:

wrong thread.. thats not at all what this thread is about

*huge facepalm*

My bad. LOL

[Katinka]

Just now, Dwolfknight said:

Interesting, I got this one yesterday and was wondering why I never saw it.

It pretty much exists solely because Vectis Prime has 2 shots and Vectis fans didn't like that so a negative magazine size mod for sniper rifles was made and added into the Corrupted pool.  At the time it came out I was loathed to go farm it since I had all the others and didn't plan on using it, just wanted it for completion's sake.

[peterc3]

This is legitimately one of the worst ideas I've encountered and this is the second time in a week I've seen it proposed.

There is no point. The only thing it would do is force lower spec players to stop playing. It's a burden on the engine for no actual payoff, just "realism" and completely changes the gunplay for no bloody reason.

Kohm and HoM were changed for throwing too many projectiles. Why would this idea improve the game?

[BrazilianJoe]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

This is legitimately one of the worst ideas I've encountered and this is the second time in a week I've seen it proposed.

There is no point. The only thing it would do is force lower spec players to stop playing. It's a burden on the engine for no actual payoff, just "realism" and completely changes the gunplay for no bloody reason.

Kohm and HoM were changed for throwing too many projectiles. Why would this idea improve the game?

In your opinion, right? 

As stated by the devs the game periodically reinvents parts of itself. It has already reworked many areas, and Plains of Eidolon is another large milestone. 

Hitscan causes many problems on many warframe abilities working less reliably as well. Kohm & co. cause a problem because they are shotguns, and they spawn a large bunch of projectiles at the same time. This makes a large part of the difference.

The game has already been optimized to survive these shotguns "violence" to the game engine. So the worst case scenario, 4 kohms with multishot, has already been addressed. 

With Fast flying projectiles from a Soma or Akstilleto, it is likely there won't be any more projectiles flying at any one time than Kohm pellets. They will hit something first because they should fly much faster than a Boltor Prime.

There is also a notoriously underused, underpowered weapon class in the game, which is snipers, and this would give them a little extra edge to perform in the upcoming update, and that's good for balance.

Giving bullets a speed limit will not change the close quarters gameplay.

[Emulad0or]

Huge change, lots of salt involved if they actually wanted to do something like this, would put unnecessary burden to the engine, and all for the sake of "realism" that is not used by most games, including competitive games (e.g. CSGO) that should have a bigger worry about this than warframe.

If you want, you can always ask DE for more projectile weapons, but there not a single good reason other than "realism" or "maybe it would be cool" to turn all hit-scan weapons into projectile weapons

[peterc3]

3 hours ago, BrazilianJoe said:

In your opinion, right? 

As stated by the devs the game periodically reinvents parts of itself. It has already reworked many areas, and Plains of Eidolon is another large milestone. 

Hitscan causes many problems on many warframe abilities working less reliably as well. Kohm & co. cause a problem because they are shotguns, and they spawn a large bunch of projectiles at the same time. This makes a large part of the difference.

The game has already been optimized to survive these shotguns "violence" to the game engine. So the worst case scenario, 4 kohms with multishot, has already been addressed. 

With Fast flying projectiles from a Soma or Akstilleto, it is likely there won't be any more projectiles flying at any one time than Kohm pellets. They will hit something first because they should fly much faster than a Boltor Prime.

There is also a notoriously underused, underpowered weapon class in the game, which is snipers, and this would give them a little extra edge to perform in the upcoming update, and that's good for balance.

Giving bullets a speed limit will not change the close quarters gameplay.

My opinion is irrelevant. Kohm had an interesting mechanic, it caused people's games to lag so hard it was prevented from throwing too many pellets. This isn't opinion, this is what DE said the issue and the solution was. HoM, when used with certain weapons, was throwing out so many projectiles, it caused other people's games to lag. This was the reason given for the change from 5 active copies to 3.

This wasn't optimization, this was weapons and frames being hard capped so that any one person could not just lag someone else out by using a certain weapon or frame power.

Multishot would mean Soma, Tetra, etc. would be throwing out similar quantities of projectiles as the Kohm, now have everyone in a game doing this. If people really want a multishot nerf to actually happen, this would be where it would happen.

This isn't just reinventing a part of the game, this would be redoing the engine. While also doing other fixes to the game, while also making new content.

This is a bad suggestion with no actual payoff besides being salty about an absurd 300m damage falloff. Is it that onerous to get within 300m of an enemy?

[Fallen_Echo]

I only agree with hitscan damage falloff if shotguns gets their falloff range adjusted to 70m.

Thats the range of the modern shotguns and here we talk about the future.

If we really want something realistic bullets should have a drop in their trajectory too.

Snipers should have atleast 800m effective range, rifles atleast 500m, pistols depending on caliber are between 400-100 and finally the shotguns with 70m range.

[LuckyCharm]

Thats a no from me. 

 

I use many hitscan weapons and projectile weapons too, and I have to say, It would feel really silly having to lead your shots for every single gun even at closer ranges. If anything what should be done is DE should be making projectile weapons more rewarding to use vs hitscan. Eg Dera vandal vs karak wraith. Rather than have the same stats, the dera should be looked at because it's harder to hit at longer ranges. 

[Andaius]

20 hours ago, peterc3 said:

My opinion is irrelevant. Kohm had an interesting mechanic, it caused people's games to lag so hard it was prevented from throwing too many pellets. This isn't opinion, this is what DE said the issue and the solution was. HoM, when used with certain weapons, was throwing out so many projectiles, it caused other people's games to lag. This was the reason given for the change from 5 active copies to 3.

This wasn't optimization, this was weapons and frames being hard capped so that any one person could not just lag someone else out by using a certain weapon or frame power.

Multishot would mean Soma, Tetra, etc. would be throwing out similar quantities of projectiles as the Kohm, now have everyone in a game doing this. If people really want a multishot nerf to actually happen, this would be where it would happen.

This isn't just reinventing a part of the game, this would be redoing the engine. While also doing other fixes to the game, while also making new content.

This is a bad suggestion with no actual payoff besides being salty about an absurd 300m damage falloff. Is it that onerous to get within 300m of an enemy?

Indeed, then you have to calculate all the projectiles the enemy is going to be shooting at you too.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

On 9/22/2017 at 10:12 AM, BrazilianJoe said:

Devs have stated that they are getting damage falloff implemented in all weapons. 

Well, if you are going that route, I think it would make sense to also get rid of hitscan and give all bullets travel time.

Hitscan works differently than projectiles, and it has very different effects with different warframe powers. 

Bringing projectiles travel time to all weapons would bring consistency, and would make distances all the more important with PoE.

As a rule of thumb, I think current hitscan weapons would more or less be 1.5-2.0x faster than Boltor Prime. 

Snipers and sniper pistols would be twice as fast (or more) as other weapons. 

This would potentially open up new classes of mods. projectile travel speed would be more important, but there would also be corrupted mods which increase short-range damage but increase falloff, or increase speed but also recoil, and other combinations of corrupted traits. 

Too much data. A projectile takes much more data than just a hit scan. Plus, it wouldn't make sense for lasers such as the Opticor or the Ferrox. Plus, it would take a long time because this means DE has to create all these stats and it's just a lot of work.

Edited September 24, 2017 by (PS4)godlysparta