Two suggestions for Hydroid.

[(PSN)Croewe]

1) Passive changed to regen 10 energy per enemy killed in his puddle.

 Let's be honest here, Devs have decided that Hydroid shall always be within his puddle from now on. Which is fine, I actually kind of enjoy it, but his passive is completely counterintuitive to how he's meant to be played now. And it was always kinda useless.

 

2) If you fully charge your ultimate while in puddle form it'll extend around its usual radius instead of being stuck to the puddle.

 

 The change to make his tentacles stay inside his puddle did wonders for reducing rng in his cc because he can now block off choke points as is how this ability was meant to be, yet sometimes you want to be able to spread the 'love' to all the heavy gunners (or maybe you want the augment to be more effective) but since you're limited inside your puddle you have to make yourself vulnerable in order to inflict maximum 'love'.

 

3) ???

 

4) Grofit

 

And that's two qol life changes that would maximize that #puddlelife .

Edited September 24, 2017 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[InDueTime-EN-]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

1) Passive changed to regen 10 energy per enemy killed in his puddle.

Nope. You may think DE wants Hyrdroid to stay there forever but other players don't. However, I wouldn't mind seeing a change in his passive. 

2 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

2) If you fully charge your ultimate while in puddle form it'll extend around its usual radius instead of being stuck to the puddle.

If you charge your ult it does extend out of the boundaries of the puddle. 

 

I like the current version of Hydroid. But I wish the tentacles moved with the puddle. 

[The_Tiddler]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

Let's be honest here, Devs have decided that Hydroid shall always be within his puddle from now on. Which is fine, I actually kind of enjoy it, but his passive is completely counterintuitive to how he's meant to be played now. And it was always kinda useless

 

Seriously though, I'm all for the idea. Heck, we already have Limbo with his... energy gain for being virtually invulnerable. And gaining more energy for killing while invulnerable. Hydroid, with how energy-thirsty(no pun intended) his kit is and the soon-to-come change to zenurik, would benifite nicely from  a baked-in means of sustaining his abilities.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Tiddlerdoo

[(PSN)Radehx]

You don't have to stay in that puddle all the bloody time. Creatively nuke stuff with corrosive barrage...even enemies your mates are fighting without you. You have amazing range on your 1. If you fit viral/gas/toxin/slash weapons, you can raze stuff quickly once you've taken out their armor. 

If you fit Pilfering Swarm, you can liberally spam your abilities and jump in and out of your puddle...and group stuff up with your 2. Energy isn't an issue at all.

The guys who only sit in the bubble are the same guys who think playing Limbo is just hitting your 2-4 combo all the time...or Nidus players who just stomp without taking full advantage of all the synergies between his abilities. 

[(PSN)Croewe]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

You don't have to stay in that puddle all the bloody time. Creatively nuke stuff with corrosive barrage...even enemies your mates are fighting without you. You have amazing range on your 1. If you fit viral/gas/toxin/slash weapons, you can raze stuff quickly once you've taken out their armor. 

If you fit Pilfering Swarm, you can liberally spam your abilities and jump in and out of your puddle...and group stuff up with your 2. Energy isn't an issue at all.

The guys who only sit in the bubble are the same guys who think playing Limbo is just hitting your 2-4 combo all the time...or Nidus players who just stomp without taking full advantage of all the synergies between his abilities. 

Or you know that guy might also think it's amusing to be a puddle and can heal allies while in the puddle. So went leave? 

Why use my weapons when my puddle does the same amount (or likely more at extremely high levels) of damage?

 

Sure you can jump in and out and this passive likely won't be a permanent sustain so you can't stay in forever anyways.

As to the nidus example isn't Hydroid's synergies based around his puddle so you are losing out by what you're saying in his full kit.

[(PSN)Radehx]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

Or you know that guy might also think it's amusing to be a puddle and can heal allies while in the puddle. So went leave? 

Why use my weapons when my puddle does the same amount (or likely more at extremely high levels) of damage?

 

Sure you can jump in and out and this passive likely won't be a permanent sustain so you can't stay in forever anyways.

As to the nidus example isn't Hydroid's synergies based around his puddle so you are losing out by what you're saying in his full kit.

His kit actually works quite well for being mobile too. I'm only really in the puddle if I got 4+ enemies I can group up...the rest of the time I just strip armor all over the place by hopping around and spamming my 1. Helps mates more than me sitting in a pretty small puddle area all the time. 

I also don't have to keep sitting in my puddle babysitting my squid garden all the time...I can leave it unattended and go elsewhere to help mates. 

As for weapons, they are still useful. If I drop my squid garden and then run far away to deal with something else, I can still spam my 1 at the kraken and nuke stuff with my gas Zarr from afar. 

Like I said, nothing wrong with the puddle...it's strong...but you aren't forced to sit in it all the time. I also don't think sitting in your puddle maximises his performance, at least for most game modes. 

[(PSN)Croewe]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

His kit actually works quite well for being mobile too. I'm only really in the puddle if I got 4+ enemies I can group up...the rest of the time I just strip armor all over the place by hopping around and spamming my 1. Helps mates more than me sitting in a pretty small puddle area all the time. 

I also don't have to keep sitting in my puddle babysitting my squid garden all the time...I can leave it unattended and go elsewhere to help mates. 

As for weapons, they are still useful. If I drop my squid garden and then run far away to deal with something else, I can still spam my 1 at the kraken and nuke stuff with my gas Zarr from afar. 

Like I said, nothing wrong with the puddle...it's strong...but you aren't forced to sit in it all the time. I also don't think sitting in your puddle maximises his performance, at least for most game modes. 

All valid points. I think you and me are more at a playstyle disagreement which can't be helped.

[(PSN)Radehx]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

All valid points. I think you and me are more at a playstyle disagreement which can't be helped.

Not saying sitting in the paddle is generally bad...or that people who like it shouldn't do it. Mostly posting this for people who say sitting the puddle all the time is all you can do with Hydroid. 

[(PSN)Croewe]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

Not saying sitting in the paddle is generally bad...or that people who like it shouldn't do it. Mostly posting this for people who say sitting the puddle all the time is all you can do with Hydroid. 

Yup I understand. It's the same as the bladestorm stuff before the 'rework'. It's good to make different possibilities clear it else we'll fall back into the current meta for every frame as we tend to do.

[Buddhakingpen]

On 9/24/2017 at 2:35 PM, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

1) Passive changed to regen 10 energy per enemy killed in his puddle.

 Let's be honest here, Devs have decided that Hydroid shall always be within his puddle from now on. Which is fine, I actually kind of enjoy it, but his passive is completely counterintuitive to how he's meant to be played now. And it was always kinda useless.

 

2) If you fully charge your ultimate while in puddle form it'll extend around its usual radius instead of being stuck to the puddle.

 

 The change to make his tentacles stay inside his puddle did wonders for reducing rng in his cc because he can now block off choke points as is how this ability was meant to be, yet sometimes you want to be able to spread the 'love' to all the heavy gunners (or maybe you want the augment to be more effective) but since you're limited inside your puddle you have to make yourself vulnerable in order to inflict maximum 'love'.

 

3) ???

 

4) Grofit

 

And that's two qol life changes that would maximize that #puddlelife .

 

Dont agree.. with any of it. Hydroid is best as a melee frame. His passive is free cc for the thing he's good at outside of sitting in puddle all day. And the ability to cluster his tentacles without using negative range is beautiful. People used to mod specifically for that functionality, and now we get it mod free. They shouldnt balance hydroid entirely around his puddle. Especially to suit a few peoples personal playstyles. 

Imo, a passive shouldnt exist to better enable one specific move of a frame, and sometimes, you should be vulnerable.

[(PSN)Croewe]

4 hours ago, Buddhakingpen said:

 

Dont agree.. with any of it. Hydroid is best as a melee frame. His passive is free cc for the thing he's good at outside of sitting in puddle all day. And the ability to cluster his tentacles without using negative range is beautiful. People used to mod specifically for that functionality, and now we get it mod free. They shouldnt balance hydroid entirely around his puddle. Especially to suit a few peoples personal playstyles. 

Imo, a passive shouldnt exist to better enable one specific move of a frame, and sometimes, you should be vulnerable.

Outside of niche cases ground slams are useless. 

Why SHOULD you be vulnerable? Plenty of frames have 0 vulnerability...

 

I said if you fully charge it then it doesn't cluster, I'm fine with the cluster without charging.

[Buddhakingpen]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

Outside of niche cases ground slams are useless. 

Why SHOULD you be vulnerable? Plenty of frames have 0 vulnerability...

 

I said if you fully charge it then it doesn't cluster, I'm fine with the cluster without charging.

Thats just not true. Ground slams are awesome on weapons that have good ground slam. Especially taking his Slide>undertow combo into consideration. When you jump out of puddle it automatically does a low bullet jump, which allows a quick ground slam. Try it on a weapon like a gas modded serro. I'm still 1 shotting level 100's with ground slams so... iono what youre talking about. Plus some melee stances have ground slams built in. Its free cc

And i wouldnt say that 2 counts as plenty. Valkyr has pretty bad drawbacks for her invulnerability, and wukong has almost nothing else worthwhile in his kit in exchange for his invulnerability. Neither of them have scaling damage along with it either. Or legitimate spammable cc. Or armor shredding... Asking why SHOULD you be vulnerable to me is such a loaded question dude. Why be vulnerable in any game? 

[(PSN)Croewe]

5 hours ago, Buddhakingpen said:

Thats just not true. Ground slams are awesome on weapons that have good ground slam. Especially taking his Slide>undertow combo into consideration. When you jump out of puddle it automatically does a low bullet jump, which allows a quick ground slam. Try it on a weapon like a gas modded serro. I'm still 1 shotting level 100's with ground slams so... iono what youre talking about. Plus some melee stances have ground slams built in. Its free cc

And i wouldnt say that 2 counts as plenty. Valkyr has pretty bad drawbacks for her invulnerability, and wukong has almost nothing else worthwhile in his kit in exchange for his invulnerability. Neither of them have scaling damage along with it either. Or legitimate spammable cc. Or armor shredding... Asking why SHOULD you be vulnerable to me is such a loaded question dude. Why be vulnerable in any game? 

What you listed are niche cases and not what a passive should be balanced around. 

 

Both wukong and Valkyr have the ability to open enemies up to finishers allowing for infinite scaling with covert lethality. (Going by your logic that niche cases is what a Warframe should be balanced around) and Hydroid has higher scaling in his puddle than he does with melee. 

 

And if you're one shotting enemies anyways what's the point of the cc in your case. From what I remember the tentacles spawn where you slam down so if an area is already dead that tentacle serves little to no purpose.

 

As to vulnerability, Warframe is about God mode people will cheese whatever content they want (and DE has yet to do any major changes assume it (and players always find ways to circumvent these Minnie changes)) so I don't think vulnerability is an issue as compared to how a player wishes to play.

 

And not having vulnerability also applies perm stealth frames/perm cc frames so there's more then just invincible frames to be invulnerable.

 

PS: go with whatever playstyle you want but don't defend a useless passive because it has one or two cases where it can do 'something'

Edited September 27, 2017 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[Buddhakingpen]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said:

What you listed are niche cases and not what a passive should be balanced around. 

 

Both wukong and Valkyr have the ability to open enemies up to finishers allowing for infinite scaling with covert lethality. (Going by your logic that niche cases is what a Warframe should be balanced around) and Hydroid has higher scaling in his puddle than he does with melee. 

 

And if you're one shotting enemies anyways what's the point of the cc in your case. From what I remember the tentacles spawn where you slam down so if an area is already dead that tentacle serves little to no purpose.

 

As to vulnerability, Warframe is about God mode people will cheese whatever content they want (and DE has yet to do any major changes assume it (and players always find ways to circumvent these Minnie changes)) so I don't think vulnerability is an issue as compared to how a player wishes to play.

 

And not having vulnerability also applies perm stealth frames/perm cc frames so there's more then just invincible frames to be invulnerable.

 

PS: go with whatever playstyle you want but don't defend a useless passive because it has one or two cases where it can do 'something'

playing with a melee weapon is a "niche case"? huh?  Hydroid is a frame where everything he does results in CC. Fitting that motif, his passive functions in the same capacity. YOU want to play him as a puddle frame, so you feel as if his entire kit should be based around enabling that one functionality as much as possible.  Playing melee with hydroid isnt a niche case. Either you want to, and you get to use his passive pretty regularly, or you dont, and it feels useless. The same argument could be used for your passive suggestion. Either you want to sit in puddle all day, and you get to have that energy regen. Or you dont want to sit in puddle, and the regen is useless.  

Covert lethality is certainly infinite scaling. But in the case of valkyr, you have no defenses to enable that infinite scaling covert lethality, unless you go into hysteria, cast paralysis, leave hysteria and then perform the finisher... thats a huge time sink,since you'd have to do that loop for each individual target. And thats in an OPTIMAL situation, because that stagger only lasts for about 2 seconds. So thats assuming you're not shot in between the invincibility frames your finisher and recasting hysteria.... so no.. not even niche. 

Wukong is in nearly the same state, only he doesnt have to worry about the dying part. Once again though. Speed. The stagger is incredibly short on cloud walker, and when infinite scaling actually becomes a factor, time to kill is important. going in and out of cloud walker for each individual enemy is a time sink.  

Not to mention, once again, both of these frames offer little outside of the ability to not die. They arent comparable to hydroid.  Hydroid gives his team so much more.

And about the definition of vulnerability. Thats just a semantics game honestly. You're still vulnerable when invisible. But even if you count stealth frames thats what.. an extra 4 frames? That makes for 6/33? Thats still not what i'd say is "plenty", but w/e. 

I'm personally not in the camp that warframe is about God Mode. I think all games need balances. I feel like DE thinks the same way, or frames and weapons wouldnt get nerfed.  

 

[(PSN)Croewe]

2 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

playing with a melee weapon is a "niche case"? huh?  Hydroid is a frame where everything he does results in CC. Fitting that motif, his passive functions in the same capacity. YOU want to play him as a puddle frame, so you feel as if his entire kit should be based around enabling that one functionality as much as possible.  Playing melee with hydroid isnt a niche case. Either you want to, and you get to use his passive pretty regularly, or you dont, and it feels useless. The same argument could be used for your passive suggestion. Either you want to sit in puddle all day, and you get to have that energy regen. Or you dont want to sit in puddle, and the regen is useless.  

Covert lethality is certainly infinite scaling. But in the case of valkyr, you have no defenses to enable that infinite scaling covert lethality, unless you go into hysteria, cast paralysis, leave hysteria and then perform the finisher... thats a huge time sink,since you'd have to do that loop for each individual target. And thats in an OPTIMAL situation, because that stagger only lasts for about 2 seconds. So thats assuming you're not shot in between the invincibility frames your finisher and recasting hysteria.... so no.. not even niche. 

Wukong is in nearly the same state, only he doesnt have to worry about the dying part. Once again though. Speed. The stagger is incredibly short on cloud walker, and when infinite scaling actually becomes a factor, time to kill is important. going in and out of cloud walker for each individual enemy is a time sink.  

Not to mention, once again, both of these frames offer little outside of the ability to not die. They arent comparable to hydroid.  Hydroid gives his team so much more.

And about the definition of vulnerability. Thats just a semantics game honestly. You're still vulnerable when invisible. But even if you count stealth frames thats what.. an extra 4 frames? That makes for 6/33? Thats still not what i'd say is "plenty", but w/e. 

I'm personally not in the camp that warframe is about God Mode. I think all games need balances. I feel like DE thinks the same way, or frames and weapons wouldnt get nerfed.  

And in the end it's a difference of playstyle/opinion as to who wants the passive changed. We could go on and on arguing but neither of us will change our stance. So I'll tip Limbo's hat to you and we can chalk the passive up to that.

[(PSN)Radehx]

Hydroid is actually a pretty cool melee frame!

I strip armor reliably with his 1 and then smash stuff either with my gas Zarr, viral Pox or viral/slash status Nami. If you strip armor with his 1, half their health with viral procs and then hit them with gas/slash damage, all enemies turn into paper. 

Most of the time, I am OUT of the puddle when playing Hydroid. The only time I'm really in the puddle is for defense or if I find a tightly-packed group of enemies I can drown all at once. Most of the time I'm jumping around stripping armor all around me while hitting stuff with melee viral/slash. 

His 2 is pretty cool too, more so when PoE comes out...he's fast as hell with it. His passive isn't bad with pilfering swarm...you get a couple extra energy obs out of it which helps. Also provides a tiny bit of CC, for FREE.

The chaps who claim he forces you to sit in a puddle all the time are the same guys who think all Limbo can do is hit 4 and then 2. 

Don't think Hydroid needs a nerf tbh. He is only super strong in a tiny area, which is the key tradeoff when using his abilities. Frames like Equinox on the other hand can nuke entire rooms with even more damage.

Edited September 28, 2017 by (PS4)Radehx