Grinding Vs Rng

[Jrgsubzero]

To be blunt right off the bat: Suffering through RNG while letting other people buy a ticket to escape it isn't fair nor fun. RNG is only fun if everyone is in the same boat. 

 

Most games use a pay model of pay or grind. Time vs. Money. And that's fine. I don't mind spending twice as long leveling my warframe or more than that collecting materials. Because they're consistent enough to keep progress going. Even the Warframe BP runs are tolerable. If people want to support DE and save time then good on them, I enjoyed my time playing the game doing boss runs and what not. 

 

Now. What's not fun. Missing alerts and getting the newer T3 keys. 

 

Let me preface this by saying I've bought around a total of 550 plat. I've not spend it on a warframe nor Reactors/Catalysts. And I don't plan to because I do not support (obviously) the alert system. Let me rephrase that last part, I like the alert system but I do not like extremely valuable items that are exclusive to alerts being on there. Namely Catalysts, Reactors, and Warframe BPs (Vauban, not helmets). Alerts should be a "Oh, that's a nice bonus." and not something people hinge on to continue progression in the game. 

 

There are no other ways to get these items except the cash-shop. So, there are two types of people. People who buy things with cash and people who are glued to twitter every waking moment to make sure they don't miss that one all important alert. I'm making this thread partialy because i missed the Vauban systems because I literally took a short break from the game. Also because the new T3 keys have a 2% drop rate. Yeah, 2%.On top of that 2% drop rate you have to pray to the RNG gods that you get what you wanted from the end of the mission that key gave you.

 

In my mind this isn't fun. Especially since, to the best of my knowledge, you don't get a better chance at the new T3 keys the higher in defense you go. And I wouldn't mind if it was a 2% chance for a rare mod that only drops there, but we're talking about a 2% chance to access content. The worst part about this is that DE dangles void key packs knowing full well that they're drop rate is insufferable. Or they offer Vauban knowing you'll likely to miss the alerts. As I said in the beginning, it is only tolerable when everyone suffers through it. Otherwise, it leaves a horrible taste in my mouth knowing that they made it this way purposely to torture me until I submit to spending my platinum on it. 

 

Yes, DE needs to make money but people need to stop acting like this is the only way. It's not, and their variety of other items in the cash-shop prove it. DE won't die if they offer Vauban as a boss drop and make reactors/catalysts grindable to some extent. 

 

 

[Arlayn]

What progression in the game? You do not have to wait on an alert to beat every mission in the game. Every warframe is just as capable as the next to beat every mission in the game, depending on what weapons you have, and even then the weapons you buy in the store can easily be used to beat every boss in the game with enough skill.

 

Even if you buy everything to get it faster. People still have to level that gear, people still have to build dojos, people still have to farm stuff to build certain things in the game. People who can buy everything game still have to wait on things like certain weapons from alerts to pop up. Jaw sword cannot be bought, it has to be earned from alerts...

[Dreed]

i hate farm when i get nothing... i mean go on boss mission, my task is farm mats so exploring whole map but still get nothing - i mean orokin cell - and do it again and again and sometimes if i have lucky boss droped me 1 orokin cell.

 

That wht was happen last weekend was a bug.. buy You DEVs should do something with some rare material drop rate. Chance for drop it from regular mob is soo low, boxes and locker too..

[Sev1107]

As for Void keys, go to Pluto defenses or Xini defense.

[BigBadHunkyDaddy]

1. Get the warframe alert mobile app

2. set it to beep when a certain thing (vauban systems) pops up in the alerts

3. get the alert item

4. ???

5. Profit!

 

That's how I got mine vauban systems/helmet after missing out on them twice

 

T3 keys are actually easier to get than T2 from my experience heh just do a lot of xini for example (and you HAVE higher chance for a T3 key reward on higher waves)

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/69284-tool-sed-r-endless-defense-reward-prediction-u9/

Edited July 23, 2013 by Balerion84

[Shion963]

You can still level weapons/warframes to get mastery ranks without any potatoes. It's not like it'll stop the levels of non-potatoed things at rank 15.

 

I've gotten one T3 key on wave 5 Olympus - Mars while levelling stuff. Since high-level areas don't increase the droprate any, just do minimum of 5 waves on the lowest planet that's still falls under T3 defense :/ 

 

And DE doesn't 'dangle' anything over us. We don't get a "Buy Void Key Pack" button every time we finish a mission and don't get one. There's no "Buy Banshee" button everytime we fail getting her part BPs.

 

They put things up for plat purchase for the people who work and could not put in the time to play AT ALL. Those who would have less playing hours because they have a full time job.

[BeerDone]

You can still level weapons/warframes to get mastery ranks without any potatoes. It's not like it'll stop the levels of non-potatoed things at rank 15.

HEHHHEHHHE, I c wut u did thar. :3

 

On a more serious note, I'm absolutely fine with the current system. I have mastered nearly all the Warframes and non-clan weapons without feeling forced into paying or grinding or anything of the sort.

 

My one gripe at the moment is DE equating Forma to Reactors and Catalysts, because Forma can easily be collected through non-alert ways. Sure, Void provides a RANDOM reward at the end, but it's still more reliable than JUST having the alert system. That is something I could agree on, add some other way to gain Orokin superchargers, that is one big Void the developers did not yet fill.

[BigBadHunkyDaddy]

Since high-level areas don't increase the droprate any, just do minimum of 5 waves on the lowest planet that's still falls under T3 defense :/ 

Xini starts with a 2% chance to drop one of the new T3 keys on wave 5... you can have 33% chance to get T3 mob def, 33% to get T3 def and 33% to get T3 capture on wave 30

 

so yes, the chance does increase with higher waves

[Shion963]

HEHHHEHHHE, I c wut u did thar. :3

 

On a more serious note, I'm absolutely fine with the current system. I have mastered nearly all the Warframes and non-clan weapons without feeling forced into paying or grinding or anything of the sort.

 

My one gripe at the moment is DE equating Forma to Reactors and Catalysts, because Forma can easily be collected through non-alert ways. Sure, Void provides a RANDOM reward at the end, but it's still more reliable than JUST having the alert system. That is something I could agree on, add some other way to gain Orokin superchargers, that is one big Void the developers did not yet fill.

Folks don't realise how good the their un-supercharged weapons are in comparison to what we had to deal with. ;p

 

And yeah, Forma should be thought of as a "poor-man's Catalyst/Reactor". A cheaper way to make a good weapon better by making it cost less to equip better mods.

 

Xini starts with a 2% chance to drop one of the new T3 keys on wave 5... you can have 33% chance to get T3 mob def, 33% to get T3 def and 33% to get T3 capture on wave 30

 

so yes, the chance does increase with higher waves

Thanks for the correction, man. Learn something new everyday. :D

 

I'll still do W5 Olympus because that's the only thing I can solo comfortably, but that's more of a choice rather than a necessity.

[Miracle21]

what a dumb post RNG this RNG that... tell me 1 online game that has perfect RNG for client nope there aren't any . also in real world Casino RNG are not perfect . so deal with it . thats the point of RNG if drops were as you wish every time then it wouldnt be RNG anymore.

[rangeless]

RNG is here to stay and I know it isn't perfect but hey, one day, you will roll the perfect numbers.

 

Imo, we should be complaining about the horrid server issues that cause non-hosts to lose damage on their guns.

[Sixty5]

The RNG is this game is much better than in others. 

 

For instance, here at ~300 hours in I have had the same number of Potato drops from log-in rewards as I had Ultra-Rare gun drops at the same point.

 

3. 

 

 

Besides its not like you need to supercharge all the things.

[Wojek]

Besides its not like you need to supercharge all the things.

 

 

What progression in the game? You do not have to wait on an alert to beat every mission in the game. Every warframe is just as capable as the next to beat every mission in the game, depending on what weapons you have, and even then the weapons you buy in the store can easily be used to beat every boss in the game with enough skill.

 

Then what are you supposed to do if you don't get catalysts/formas/special alert drops? Just grind the same missions all the time for just the sake of it or what?

 

Face it, the only progression there currently is in Warframe is improving your gear. There's nothing else to do but get better gear to get better gear to get better gear for the same missions over and over.

 

You might argue that other MMOs work the same, but most of them actually have a progression through in game content. You start off with low level instances, continue on with raids and then rise through the tiers there. You get to see and fight new enemies, have to use different skills and tactics and so on.

 

In Warframe this is completely missing. You're right on this, Arlayn, I could go and beat Vor with a regular Lato or a thrice formaed, tatered Despair. The only difference would be how fast he would die.

However, this actually leads to the problem that the progression we currently have is only to get better and/or new gear.

 

That's also why I think OP is annoyed with how alerts and the RNG currently work (not saying they need to be improved apart from that). They are part of the whole progression.

Just imagine if you had to rely on a random quest/mission to progress to the higher raid tiers in other MMOs! These games would suffer from a never-ending stream of rage and complaints on their forums, because now their progression doesn't hinge on how much time they invest, but on an outside factor, a terrible one at that (luck).

 

If there were some kind of clear tiers in the game, many more people would be angry about the fact you can only get catalysts from random alerts - but they're not, so there obviously are people who are okay with it, because they got lucky.

[OrokinNoob]

All I can say is find a method that works for you. If you don't have a smart phone, use friends. There are about 7 communities, including social networks that can help you get alerts in a timely manner.

 

My buddy has even offered to text alerts to to his clan mates when they are at work.

 

I use the official alert app Warframe Nexus, there is one out called Warframe Utility too and my wife made a random twitter account just to follow Warframe Alerts Bot on her iPhone for just " ? " alerts.

 

T3 keys are rather common higher level defense rewards. I've gotten keys from Casta on Ceres. Bianca on Uranus, All 3 Eris defenses and all 3 Pluto Defenses.

 

Try to dig deeper in the communities and wikia comments and you'll find much easier methods to farming. I can understand the frustration of the alert system. But if you are not using any other "off-computer" methods, you are losing out where other players are having no problems.

Edited July 23, 2013 by OrokinNoob

[Sev1107]

My best friend and i play this game together so we help eachother out if its a nice alert and the other isnt on to get it/know about it.

[Thovargh]

Xini starts with a 2% chance to drop one of the new T3 keys on wave 5... you can have 33% chance to get T3 mob def, 33% to get T3 def and 33% to get T3 capture on wave 30

 

so yes, the chance does increase with higher waves

 

The chance CAN increase with higher waves, but only if you get the right rewards. If you get for example Hellfire, then heated charge your chance for a new tower key goes to zero, while your chance to get another useless heated charge increases

[BigBadHunkyDaddy]

The chance CAN increase with higher waves, but only if you get the right rewards. If you get for example Hellfire, then heated charge your chance for a new tower key goes to zero, while your chance to get another useless heated charge increases

That's why I posted the link to SedR, so people can calculate it themselves.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Balerion84

[Wojek]

Try to dig deeper in the communities and wikia comments and you'll find much easier methods to farming. I can understand the frustration of the alert system. But if you are not using any other "off-computer" methods, you are losing out where other players are having no problems.

 

But do you think it's okay like this? I mean, I personally don't mind reading up on stuff, but why do I have to go through that whole hassle? Why can't I have proper ingame tutorials and a system that let's me play when I want to get the stuff I want? Why do I have to rely on other stuff like this to get full use of an integral part of warframe?

[OrokinNoob]

But do you think it's okay like this? I mean, I personally don't mind reading up on stuff, but why do I have to go through that whole hassle? Why can't I have proper ingame tutorials and a system that let's me play when I want to get the stuff I want? Why do I have to rely on other stuff like this to get full use of an integral part of warframe?

I don't really see it as a hassle, just multiple ways to access the information. Also the game is beta, so nothing is permanent. I agree Warframe needs a better UI tutorial, not just combat related material. But they addressed they are working on that.

As far as the community sharing information on better methods to farm and find items, thats in every RNG drop rate game. The game gives us and shows us where our best chances to profit and find certain resources, while the community gives tips and hints for the best farm locations.

I don't mind the alert system, because its another method of obtaining "pay only" features for free. Rather its grinding or waiting for an alert, getting pay items for free simply isn't easy, which is how it should be. As you said " I want to get the stuff i want". You don't need alert only items to progress in the game and alerts are not the only method to get these items. There's still pay, login rewards and we've even had a few 3rd party promotions for reactors/catalyst and plat.

If they added the alert items to missions/bosses as random rewards, they would most likely place them in an equal or even lower percentage of drops than say warframe blueprints. For some, the RNG would benefit them over missing alerts, but for far too many others, it would be an even harder addition to the normal grind. At least with alerts, you're guaranteed the reward once you obtain the mission.

Edited July 23, 2013 by OrokinNoob