Glast Gambit is infuriating

[WubbaLubbaDub]

Everything about this quest is just bad design DE

The 10 victory margin part is absolute horseS#&$

The repetetiveness and the voice lines of this quest has absolutely nothing to do with Nidus and it just leaves a sour taste in your mouth, especially if you try and farm the parts afterwards.

 

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

You're a bit late on the hate train, but your points still stand.

[xXDeadsinxX]

Still why I haven’t completed the quest since it’s just so tedious and not fun at all.

[Birdframe_Prime]

All I can say is 'well, yes, and?'

The 10 points win margin is annoying, but pretty much the only way to limit us from just running rough-shod all over the opposition, the voice lines are definitely repetitive and then the part about Nidus is purely because these people live in the middle of the Infested without being consumed, which is literally what Nidus is about; being the Infested, but not being consumed by the hive mind of it.

But now what? I don't see any ideas in your comments, only complaints. Do you have anything to actually suggest, or are you just here to moan?

[BlackCoMerc]

5 hours ago, Thaylien said:

All I can say is 'well, yes, and?'

The 10 points win margin is annoying, but pretty much the only way to limit us from just running rough-shod all over the opposition, the voice lines are definitely repetitive and then the part about Nidus is purely because these people live in the middle of the Infested without being consumed, which is literally what Nidus is about; being the Infested, but not being consumed by the hive mind of it.

But now what? I don't see any ideas in your comments, only complaints. Do you have anything to actually suggest, or are you just here to moan?

It's called a Feedback Thread. He gave feedback.

Quests aren't where DE is strong. Sort of like boss fights that way. So allow me to offer a bot of feedback based on that:

Stick to environmental storytelling and repeatable missions. Voice logs, monuments, brief voiceovers during action or Exploration, are all great tools that are under utilized here. Scripted quests require months to build, hours to play, are a poor use of dev time and see players leave again as soon as they are completed.

Focus instead on replayable missions and adding new ones. Assault is an awesome mission. With some randomly varying goals each run, it makes a great foundation for new, much needed non endless, goal oriented missions. 

But stay away from quests. Your game does not shine it's brightest when it's trying to emulate the tired, scripted, lead by the hand AAA modus operandi.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Hey @BlackCoMerc haven't heard from you in a while!

5 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

It's called a Feedback Thread. He gave feedback.

Yeah, but it's not a good feedback thread, or a helpful one, I'll point everyone confused by this at the handy-dandy guide created by our good friend D20

Because, while everyone's opinion is valid, just showing up straight out of mission with no actual ideas on the matter, only vitriol, isn't helpful to anyone, even the poster (because posting on the forums is nowhere near as therapeutic as simply screaming or going to have a nice cup of tea).

[BlackCoMerc]

57 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Hey @BlackCoMerc haven't heard from you in a while!

Yeah, but it's not a good feedback thread, or a helpful one, I'll point everyone confused by this at the handy-dandy guide created by our good friend D20

Because, while everyone's opinion is valid, just showing up straight out of mission with no actual ideas on the matter, only vitriol, isn't helpful to anyone, even the poster (because posting on the forums is nowhere near as therapeutic as simply screaming or going to have a nice cup of tea).

On the contrary, if your missions incite such a powerful, negative response...they might need a second look.

[OrochiFuror]

Just did this yesterday, fairly easy solo, they could have tied it in much better at the end by using the child somehow to get you access to Nidus. Like Titania, that quest made sense.  Almost feels like the quest isn't finished, just needs one more mission where you go back to the colony, see how they interact with the infested and then reward you with a way to do similar. Just tie in your reward.

  Farming for parts is farming for parts, I'm 2 for 3, just hope that last one doesn't take days. So can't see how you can be angry about it, seems you make some good money too, ended up with an extra 600k at the end of the day and I don't recall farming for credits. Took a couple hours to run the index, compared to the week it took me looking for plants doing Titania's. Now just have to wait for RNG.

Even with the AI team mates being terrible, score was usually 12+ to 2 or so, lost one match since I had a terrible weapon for shooting down enemy Raptor and it scored 10 points, other then that nothing scored more then 3 points a match the whole time.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

On the contrary, if your missions incite such a powerful, negative response...they might need a second look.

But it's an opinion... with no actual reasons to back it up? People turning Octavia's energy dark/invisible have evoked the same amount of rage and negativity in the past. People have given just as much negative feedback over the existence of Oberon, over Draco disappearing, over a million little things.

Without structure or input into the conversation, one person's bad experience and subsequent tantrum doesn't achieve anything positive at all. Even complaining directly to the DEvs face to face to say you're angry won't achieve anything without saying why it makes you so angry.

The ten-point margin being stupid? (OP uses stronger terms) Yeah, sure, but why is it stupid? What can we fix about that without knowing why it annoyed him so much? That's why feedback has to be more than just the forum equivalent of throwing your arms in the air and collapsing on the ground.

With feedback you might then understand that it has to do with other players not getting the point and over-scoring so much that the game is lost. With feedback you might find out that he was solo and had meant to score only ten, but the multiplier made him score twelve and the enemy AI couldn't catch up before the round ended. Something! Anything!

[Gravitus123]

Odd i remember beating it without any problems but it has been a long time so

[BlackCoMerc]

4 hours ago, Thaylien said:

But it's an opinion... with no actual reasons to back it up? People turning Octavia's energy dark/invisible have evoked the same amount of rage and negativity in the past. People have given just as much negative feedback over the existence of Oberon, over Draco disappearing, over a million little things.

Without structure or input into the conversation, one person's bad experience and subsequent tantrum doesn't achieve anything positive at all. Even complaining directly to the DEvs face to face to say you're angry won't achieve anything without saying why it makes you so angry.

The ten-point margin being stupid? (OP uses stronger terms) Yeah, sure, but why is it stupid? What can we fix about that without knowing why it annoyed him so much? That's why feedback has to be more than just the forum equivalent of throwing your arms in the air and collapsing on the ground.

With feedback you might then understand that it has to do with other players not getting the point and over-scoring so much that the game is lost. With feedback you might find out that he was solo and had meant to score only ten, but the multiplier made him score twelve and the enemy AI couldn't catch up before the round ended. Something! Anything!

I dont disagree with the notion that feedback would be more helpful. Youre right there.

At the same time...when missions inspire this sort of vitriol - and their doing so isnt all that uncommon - it might behoove DE to sit down and take a look at recent missions. Ask themselves what is and is not working well. And how they can improve it.

Frankly, well I like the folks at DE a lot for their candor and honesty...they arent great game designers. I am NOT claiming they are stupid. Or even bad at their jobs. 

DE has a ton of excellent animations and modelers. Warframe animation work is top notch. They are also great world builders. And they have designed some of the best moment to moment game play available in modern action games. I mean that; its why I keep coming back. 

Where they drop the ball...is things to DO with that game play. Escort missions are not fun. They have been lampooned, parodied and belittled for literally decades. And yet, not only do we have the terrible Rescue missions...they went and added ANOTHER escort mission with Defection. 

On top of this, in a game about being parkour running space ninjas with super speed and agility...half the missions in the game focus on STANDING AROUND, DEFENDING SET POINTS. Its literally the antithesis of what the game and its engine were built to do.

At this point, I think DE maybe needs to ask themselves what they want the game to BE moving forward. Eidolon tells me that they understand endless horde mode and scripted, one off, single player quests get old fast. That they lack longevity. That DE understands they should focus on replayable content and variety. And for crying out loud get away from endless missions. They have killed balance, get old fast and really dont add much. 

Assault is something they should look at again. Its a really good mission. Add a few random modifiers to it, such as different branching tasks that might be required on a given run, and you have the foundation for great, non endless future missions. Whatever direction they take though, I think they need to stick to it. This hybrid of tactical shooter and over the shoulder, gear based ARPG is creaking along, utterly lacking both identity and balance and the internal conflicts about what direction the game wants to go in, are really straining the seams right now. 

[Aetrion]

I just did the quest and had absolutely no problem with the victory margin hustle. I just collected all the points the enemies dropped for holding and prevented them from scoring and let my team score a few here or there.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

3 hours ago, Aetrion said:

I just did the quest and had absolutely no problem with the victory margin hustle. I just collected all the points the enemies dropped for holding and prevented them from scoring and let my team score a few here or there.

here i was beginning to think that i was the only one who really enjoyed the glast gambit. It made me feel like a pool shark, beating ol' Nef at his own game like one of those hustlers.

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I dont disagree with the notion that feedback would be more helpful. Youre right there.

Quite, but you and I have given more meaningful discussion in the argument about it than this thread would have ever had without us.

Your entire batch of comments should be their own thread, where we can discuss the points properly, not wasted in this one.

Also, the game was meant to be a horde shooter, there's only a few things you can do in a horde shooter that aren't shooting hordes, and DE are still trying to come up with more. Yes Escort is a bad one, but to DE's credit, the main two (Rescue and Hijack) have been smoothed out so that the first one has the operative ignoring the enemies if you do and teleporting to catch up with our movement making them practically invulnerable as long as you keep using the movement the game has, while the other has a mechanic that forces you to choose between standing and supplying power versus running around killing things because it now travels the same speed whether you have one or four, but drains all four sheilds at the same rate, meaning if somebody doesn't jump off or use some kind of restorative power/pad to recharge the hijack stops anyway. I mean, operatives will never be Elizabeth from Bioshock, or even Dogmeat, but very, very few companions are.

Defection is less Escort than Lemmings, where apart from bugs the thing can run relatively smoothly as long as you run around actively killing things that get in the way. The most Escort of Escort missions is actually Operative Defense, where the bugger wanders around like a manic depressive trying to find a car to run them over making it impossible to actually defend them without standing over them directly with a Limbo, Ivara, Terminator Nyx, or even a Zephyr... failing that teleport them into a spawn room where they can't see the enemies with Nova or Loki.

So it's not all doom and gloom from the fanbase. And don't forget, we have Landscapes coming out that will slowly bring the instanced material down in favour of the more open and flexible game play.

Now that we know this is happening, we can look forward and give feedback that would actually help direct the DEvs to the kind of game we want to be playing in those future landscapes.

As for the missions... well, apart from that one specific thing that I say every time, which is that DE might want to collab with an independent writer, one who doesn't know the story, for editing and quality purposes on their work... the only other thing with these is that they aren't to everyone's tastes, not everyone's going to agree with the direction, but others are going to enjoy the way they play. Like these two:

4 hours ago, Aetrion said:

I just did the quest and had absolutely no problem with the victory margin hustle. I just collected all the points the enemies dropped for holding and prevented them from scoring and let my team score a few here or there.

1 hour ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

here i was beginning to think that i was the only one who really enjoyed the glast gambit. It made me feel like a pool shark, beating ol' Nef at his own game like one of those hustlers.

Thanks for being in to say this guys, I enjoyed the quest myself, and I just wish we could have tied it more back to those colonists at the end, you know? Laughing at Nef is all very well, and helping out Ergo Glast was satisfying in finally finding out who that guy was, but we got into that quest by helping out the colonists, and I wouldn't have minded getting at least a drop-off-the-girl scene to show us having 'rescued' her.

In any case, why don't we let this one drop, start it again where it can be actually meaningful?

[TaylorsContraction]

Well yes OP is right. I often help new players in recruitment chat and the thing I hate to help people with most is Glast Gambit. It's so boring and repetitive. DE needs to lessen the amount of index runs, or reduce the quest based index run to just 1 round instead of 3.

[Fishae]

just wanna bump this, absolutely horrible mechanic. even if we can drop/make disappear the index we've already collected would be better. wasted 500k already, not gonna bother until it gets changed.

[Dwietzsche]

I think Warframe is a really good game, one of the better designed combat simulators out there, so this will probably seem like an overreaction, but I'm quitting this game over Glast Gambit. I get having to redo the quest section because I broke the required victory margin (one out of three times playing the needlessly repetitive matches), but I also just lost 160k credits for no discernible reason (I did not, after all, lose any of the matches). Warframe is a time sink, that is built into the design, but we all have to decide on our own terms when enough is enough, and this quest was designed by somebody with no sensitivity to any of the hazards that come with that.

Ah, I guess I'm over it, but still, this is ridiculous.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Dwietzsche

[Worm4real]

The ten point margin index quest is awful for a few reasons

1. You have to put up money after the Perrin Sequence already talked about how they offered a sizable bounty? Why is the Tenno putting up the money? Makes no sense
2. Either your NPCs are dying on purpose or the computer is just being given points in some instances. You'll randomly see an enemy appear with massive amounts of points. I don't know if it's that the NPCs kill enemies and never pick up the points or if the entire thing is rigged
3. You can accidentally put yourself in a no win situation if you run over points accidentally I was leading 11-2 and accidentally had 13 points wit the bonus on me. I'm pretty much screwed when the enemy comes out of nowhere to score 11 points right near the end
4. Surprisingly before the 10 point margin quest no one shows up with a S#&$ ton of points in the last 20 seconds of a match magically.
5. Every player has to have the 160k so good luck doing this with your friends if you just started the game. Also if you have a good team and have bad luck all your teammates might not be able to try again next time.

It's really hard to think this is just 'accidental' bad design and instead just frustration locking something that happens to be in the cash shop.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Worm4real

[BlackCoMerc]

8 hours ago, Worm4real said:

The ten point margin index quest is awful for a few reasons

1. You have to put up money after the Perrin Sequence already talked about how they offered a sizable bounty? Why is the Tenno putting up the money? Makes no sense
2. Either your NPCs are dying on purpose or the computer is just being given points in some instances. You'll randomly see an enemy appear with massive amounts of points. I don't know if it's that the NPCs kill enemies and never pick up the points or if the entire thing is rigged
3. You can accidentally put yourself in a no win situation if you run over points accidentally I was leading 11-2 and accidentally had 13 points wit the bonus on me. I'm pretty much screwed when the enemy comes out of nowhere to score 11 points right near the end
4. Surprisingly before the 10 point margin quest no one shows up with a S#&$ ton of points in the last 20 seconds of a match magically.
5. Every player has to have the 160k so good luck doing this with your friends if you just started the game. Also if you have a good team and have bad luck all your teammates might not be able to try again next time.

It's really hard to think this is just 'accidental' bad design and instead just frustration locking something that happens to be in the cash shop.

That's exactly the intent: push plat sales.

DE my as well stop adding frames as game play rewards and b honest and charge to unlock new "classes." They aren't willing to allow sane, working people to obtain frames by playing, so why the pretense?

[Worm4real]

Oh and I forgot how it's really easy to accidentally pick up too many points combine that with the fact that the computer definitely cheats and pulls points out of nowhere. Even bugs like one of my allies respawning with 7 points on her. It's annoying I basically need ammo refills because if I step away from their point for a second they'll score with massive amounts of points which they got from who knows where.

It's unfortunate I really like this game but to see almost an entire thread of people repeating how awful it is and how awful index is and it's still in here just as it was.Even the index itself is still optimally done by letting yourself die after getting to 25 points. They'll never fix it because somehow it's an acceptable way to get nidus? This buggy mess of a game mode that people only participate in to farm credits.

I guess I'll wait for my friends to get to it and craft lots of ammo restores.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Worm4real

[(PSN)Hodder069]

Why is the sweet F*** do you have to do this so many @(*()$ times? I like the idea of the game but now I'm on my 15th round of this horse S#&$ or something. And three times in a row now I either had one too many points or some A****** squeaked his way in to my goal with two seconds left and got ten points at once. Not only do you make it repetitive and fustrating, you also force us to lose 160,000 credits just for attempting it. This is poor game design at its finest. It's hard enough to get enough credits for what you need in this game and now just to get one Damn blueprint I need to play countless rounds of this stupid game, lose credits in the process and have this ten point margin F*** me in the &#! everytime. Almost as bad as the harrow quest where I had to capture 15 shadows or something with the scanner and just go through boring &#! levels with nothing to actually do but capture the same A****** over and over. As for suggestions to fix this S#&$. Instead of just recycling the same S#&$ over and over spend some actual time on a good quest and stop releasing one for every single warframe. No one wants to lose credits unfairly cause your game is so inconsistent with its mechanics. I won't even get started on how bad the Titania quest was getting those Damn plants. What a useless @(*()$ mechanic for a useless quest. If you're going to S#&$ in our dinner at least have the curtiousy to work more then a day on the S#&$ in your &#!. Some of these quests took all of a few hours to program. No one wants to hear that idiot announcer in this quest. I like the game inself but when you're forced to do this margin crap and force people to do it over and over and over again it's just a slap in the face to your community. This quest was basically the last straw and will most likely be done with the game very soon. Even after all the repetitiveness in the past I still stuck up for this game and I've been with it for three years now. But Jesus Christ start putting some effort in your quests or I'm out. This would have been much more tolerable if the credit wager was less, the credit win bonus was larger, the rounds were only one at a time opposed to three (cause after losing the third round you now have to do them all over again, even if you tie) or if you just didn't have four or five separate quests with the same game just draining the life out of your fan base. 

[MintChoc]

I'm no longer inclined to be constructive after losing three separate times by enemy teams scoring 18 points in the literal last second of the margin round while I'm standing next to their goal without enough time to physically move into it, and I feel like I'm going to have a stroke

This quest is utterly, completely trash

It is at the level that it makes me angry about ever having spent money and time on the game

The only constructive advice I can even muster is to completely cut out this tumor and kindly help the person who designed it fill out an application to their local Burger King

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

i have no idea why everyone hates this quest so much

[GPrime96]

On 9/25/2017 at 5:19 AM, WubbaLubbaDub said:

Everything about this quest is just bad design DE

The 10 victory margin part is absolute horseS#&$

The repetetiveness and the voice lines of this quest has absolutely nothing to do with Nidus and it just leaves a sour taste in your mouth, especially if you try and farm the parts afterwards.

 

I know how it feels to play the Glast Gambit because i played it before when i was Shaw1996 and it was just Index, Index, Index index, Spy, Index. The 10 victory Margin do suck though. In this account, i would probably not play it again.

Edited April 14, 2018 by VPrime96

[JalakBali]

On 9/26/2017 at 3:16 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

On the contrary, if your missions incite such a powerful, negative response...they might need a second look.

A second look..... at what? If you made some pancakes and your guest just said they don't like it and say nothing else, how are you supposed to improve it?