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Kubrows, Sentinels, Precepts, and Pollution: Are Mod Drops Outdated?


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So, I was wandering the warframe wiki, looking at how to get certain mods that I hadn't yet obtained, and I realized that I didn't have the mod Bite yet, and as an avid user of pets, such a potent mod could be useful.  However, upon looking at the drop tables on the wiki (which I confirmed in the codex), I discovered that Kubrows and Drahks, the enemies that drop Bite, have an alarming 18 mods in their drop table, 3 common mods, 6 uncommon mods, and a whopping 9 rare mods.  

Which got me thinking about whether all those mods need to be there.  And no, they really don't, and the fact that they do have such polluted drop tables means that even uncommon mods like Maul or the defense link mods are rarer than they ought to be.  Then I looked at Kavats and Hyekka, which have exclusive drop tables, which makes it so that their drop tables have a tidy 4-5 mods in their drop table.  If Drahks and Kubrows split their uncommon and rare mod drops in a similar way, they would go down to a still large, but more manageable, 10-11 mods.  

But then I realized an even bigger problem plaguing drop tables throughout the entire game: precept mods.  The default precepts of many companions exist in the drop tables of enemies throughout the game, with the exception of the default precepts of Diriga, Helios, Taxon, Chesa Kubrows, and Helminth Chargers.  Really, there's no need for this, since every companion comes with copies of their default precepts.  Before Endo, it could have been argued that these existed to help with leveling the copies of the precepts that you would actually equip, but at this point, they just exist as Endo fodder.  In fact, their existence makes it more likely that the leveled mods will end up being accidentally sold or converted into Endo, since they'll appear in the duplicates tab of the mod segment.  It's not like we'd get more or less Endo fodder from losing these mods in the drop tables, we'd just get more mods that have any chance of being useful beyond being Endo fodder.  It's also not as if Diriga, Helios, Taxon, Chesas, or Helminths suffer due to the fact that their defaults don't drop.  

If the default precepts were removed from the drop tables, including rare precept mods in the drop tables of Drahks and Kubrows, it would remove a large number of useless mod drops, without affecting the intake of Endo at all.  The only negative affect I can think of is that the trading value of Bite would probably go down?  Unless a new rare mod for Kavats comes out, they could probably keep the Kavat and Hyekka drop tables untouched, since losing the default precepts in their drop table would mean they would only have uncommon mods in their drop table, which would be odd, but I suppose not unmanageable.  If the uncommon mod drops of Kubrows and Drahks were split between them like Kavats and Hyekka have, that would leave a mere 7 mods in their drop table, which is probably about average.  So...what do you think?  Am I missing something?  Are these mod drops needed for a reason I'm not thinking of?

Edited by ShadowFel
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Someone finally noticed. Nope, they aren't needed at all.

This is actually a rehash of a problem that existed forever ago, but like cosmetic limiting arcanes...history has a way of repeating itself:

 

Once upon a time in Warframe, players saw a rare mod drop and more often than not...it was a WARFRAME ABILITY. As you can guess, regardless of their cost in endo, these mods didn't need to exist because once you built the warframe...it gave you the mods making those 100 Nyx Absorb mods useless.

There'd be no difference in endo/credits/transmutation if they dropped another rare mod that players don't automatically get when they build the pet; It's not like you can use them in any other scenario.

 

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12 minutes ago, Archistopheles said:

Rare mods aren't rare unless the table is filled with 99% junk.

I mean, that's not really true.  Berserker is a rare, valuable mod that drops from an annoyingly common enemy (Corrupted Ancients), and there's only one other rare mod in its drop table (the also valuable Quick Thinking).  In fact, most rare mods are worth collecting when they show up.  But with a Kubrow, it's almost not worth picking up a rare mod.  Over the past year, DE has been taking steps to reduce the grind for many mods (elemental bullet jump mods with Kuva Jesters, various stances getting additional drop sources, etc.), so why not this?

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as far as I was aware one of the reasons for precepts still being attainable as drops was because people kept selling the things and complaining to support. Apparently we can't be trusted not to do this. Theoretically just making them unsellable, non transmutable and untradeable would also work.

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Just now, Archistopheles said:

Again, why keep anything rare at all?

Why limit enemies to dropping mods at such a low rate?

Why make certain Prime parts harder to get?

I'm not saying that there should be no grind at all.  I appreciate that it's kind of Warframe's whole deal, and how it keeps players.  I'm not asking to get every mod an enemy can drop should drop the first time you kill them, just that the enemies with the most cluttered drop tables get some cleanup.  I mean, farming for prime parts would be much more annoying if the 3% or whatever rare drop rate was split between 9 different components.  Most enemies that drop anything other than rare mods have only 1 or 2 rare mods in their drop table, even bosses that have 100% mod drop rates.  Having 9 in there is a bit too much of an outlier, if you ask me.  Even enemies like modular corpus who drop only rare mods only have 4 in their drop table.

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2 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

as far as I was aware one of the reasons for precepts still being attainable as drops was because people kept selling the things and complaining to support. Apparently we can't be trusted not to do this. Theoretically just making them unsellable, non transmutable and untradeable would also work.

It also doesn't explain why 5 of our 15 (not counting variants) possible companions don't have their default precepts drop anywhere.  Also, like I said in my original post, part of that problem is likely that the ranked precepts show up in the duplicates tab, where people go when they want to sell/dissolve their mods.  Doing this might actually DECREASE the number of incidents of that ilk that support would have to deal with.

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50 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Perfect drop for Transmutation. Bite never dropped from Enemy to me, got dozens from Transmutation.

You can also get it from Cervantes caches.  I frankly don't care about getting Bite so much as how silly the mod drop tables of Drahks and Kubrows are, and how silly the idea of default precept mod drops are to begin with.

Edited by ShadowFel
minor clarification
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12 minutes ago, ShadowFel said:

You can also get it from Cervantes caches.  I frankly don't care about getting Bite so much as how silly the mod drop tables of Drahks and Kubrows are, and how silly the idea of precept mod drops are to begin with.

Agreed.

Precepts do not belong on drop tables.

We need interesting, useful mods. Not literal garbage.

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9 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Agreed.

Precepts do not belong on drop tables.

We need interesting, useful mods. Not literal garbage.

I agree with Precepts, I remember time mentioned by @Synpaibut ,Tbh, players use around 1/5 of all Mods, they should learn how to use rest 4/5 first, after that I'm agree with next round of new Mods. 

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13 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The trash mods would just be replaced by however much Endo they break down to. Unless you'd rather get nothing if it wasn't the mod you want?

The way that mod drops work, to my knowledge, means that removing a mod from a drop table doesn't decrease the chance of getting a mod, it just increases the chances to get a different mod within its bracket.  You'll get your 5 endo common mod regardless of whether or not Revenge is in the drop table, it's just that for a new player, it might actually be a useful mod, instead of a thinly veiled package of 5 endo.  Same with rare mods.  Removing the 8 precepts wouldn't decrease the likelihood of getting a rare mod, just increase the likelihood of getting a rare mod that holds any value as something other than endo (but you can still break it down into 15 endo if you like).  

I know these aren't the actual numbers, but if kubrows have a .9% chance of dropping a rare mod, that .9% chance is the same regardless of if you have 9 rare mods or 1.  The only difference is that if there are 9, each one has a .1% drop chance, whereas if there's only 1, that's a .9% drop chance for that one mod.  So removing the mods won't decrease (or increase) endo intake, just increase the likelihood of getting a mod that could have a use besides endo.

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55 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

The trash mods would just be replaced by however much Endo they break down to. Unless you'd rather get nothing if it wasn't the mod you want?

Replace them with low tier Rivens. The ones with only 2 buffs.

Think about: tons of useful mods means People ALWAYS have a reason to keep running missions. To keep playing.

This game needs USEFUL loot. Rivens offer the perfect system to deliver it. Lower tiered Rivens could easily slot into more common mod drops, replacing trash mods.

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1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Replace them with low tier Rivens. The ones with only 2 buffs.

Think about: tons of useful mods means People ALWAYS have a reason to keep running missions. To keep playing.

This game needs USEFUL loot. Rivens offer the perfect system to deliver it. Lower tiered Rivens could easily slot into more common mod drops, replacing trash mods.

Rivens do not matter as much as people seem to think they do. Sometimes it's like the vocal community is running a pump and dump scam. Rivens have a hard cap.

Replace mods, with other mods that you do want. Genius. Why doesn't DE hire you?

Trash mods dropping is useful loot. It's free endo.

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2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Trash mods dropping is useful loot. It's free endo.

I mean, yes, but it would be better to have mods that you'd actually want to have one or two copies of, like, Vitality or something, than mods that will never, EVER find use because the only place that they're useful, they already exist.  Besides, the number of mods in the drop table doesn't affect the drop chances for each tier, so you wouldn't miss drowning in Revenge when you're instead drowning in Redirection, Ammo drum, or even 15 Endo packs (which are worth 3 normal useless mods).  You won't lose Endo this way.  I think that you might actually slightly increase Endo intake.  Slightly.  This would just get rid of mods that never, ever find use when they drop, and are essentially 5 endo packs.  Or, in the case of the Kubrow precepts, 15 endo packs or transmutation fodder.

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2 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Replace them with low tier Rivens. The ones with only 2 buffs.

Think about: tons of useful mods means People ALWAYS have a reason to keep running missions. To keep playing.

This game needs USEFUL loot. Rivens offer the perfect system to deliver it. Lower tiered Rivens could easily slot into more common mod drops, replacing trash mods.

Replacing mods in polluted drop tables with other mods won't solve drop table pollution.  It's just slightly more pleasant pollution.  Besides, rivens aren't really as useful as you seem to think they are, and having them drop in any form outside of sorties just devalues the sorties and the rivens, and makes players less likely to do the grinding necessary to operate in sortie content.

Edited by ShadowFel
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4 hours ago, ShadowFel said:

Replacing mods in polluted drop tables with other mods won't solve drop table pollution.  It's just slightly more pleasant pollution.  Besides, rivens aren't really as useful as you seem to think they are, and having them drop in any form outside of sorties just devalues the sorties and the rivens, and makes players less likely to do the grinding necessary to operate in sortie content.

I am not claiming Rivens are some sort of god tier mod in terms of usefulness. But at least they can be useful. Which is better than what is there now, and doesnt require adding something new to the game. Doesnt have to be a permanent solution but its better than the current junk. 

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7 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I am not claiming Rivens are some sort of god tier mod in terms of usefulness. But at least they can be useful. Which is better than what is there now, and doesnt require adding something new to the game. Doesnt have to be a permanent solution but its better than the current junk. 

The thing is, the default precept mods don't need to be replaced with ANYTHING.  They can just be removed, and made so that a player cannot sell, trade, or dissolve their last copy.  No one would miss them in the drop tables, new players would just have a higher likelihood of getting useful common mods from enemies that can help them get a strong start (vitality, steel fiber, point strike, pressure point, etc.)  Even though they are just Endo to experienced players like you or I, these basic, common mods can really help a new player strengthen themselves and get into the game.  Whereas the default precept mods are equally valueless to everyone, regardless of experience or mod collection completion.

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4 hours ago, ShadowFel said:

The thing is, the default precept mods don't need to be replaced with ANYTHING.  They can just be removed, and made so that a player cannot sell, trade, or dissolve their last copy.  No one would miss them in the drop tables, new players would just have a higher likelihood of getting useful common mods from enemies that can help them get a strong start (vitality, steel fiber, point strike, pressure point, etc.)  Even though they are just Endo to experienced players like you or I, these basic, common mods can really help a new player strengthen themselves and get into the game.  Whereas the default precept mods are equally valueless to everyone, regardless of experience or mod collection completion.

Thats a fair, valid point, too.

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