Plains of Eidolon: Sniper Review!

[Fari]

1 hour ago, Budumpshh said:

sniper fall off is butts. should do the opposite and boost damage the further away you are because of how stupid hard it would be to hit enemies.

I don't think it's "stupid hard" but honestly that'd be cool, yeah.

It makes me sad that Daikyu mod is only for Daikyu, also it caps off at an amount that makes it barely (if even) worth it but that's another matter, as well as not an issue if it was innate thing.

[ADDgamer45]

1 minute ago, owendawgx said:

I think we should wait before passing judgment on reduction of zoom levels until we see what the new zoom levels are like

You can already see those zoom levels in game. I even posted pics.

[DarkDullahan]

Just now, owendawgx said:

I think we should wait before passing judgment on reduction of zoom levels until we see what the new zoom levels are like

You can already "see" what they're like by taking a sniper and zooming in, then cutting that in half. @ADDgamer45 already basically showed what it would look like with their screenshots a bit up.

 

Just now, Chitanda.Eru said:

everything became a snipetron Vandal.

Basically this. I really, desperately hope they don't add the zoom changes like this, and increase the falloff threshold, or reduce the amount the damage falls off at cap. 50% at 600m is overkill, 25% is bad enough. for a sniper it should just be around a 10-15% reduction if any.

[Dreamforger]

Just gonna post it here aswell

 

"

Hmm both good an bad news :) ashame with the missed shot thing (compared to Knell and Arca Scisco who are not punished)

Do we get a combo from start or does the Vectis Prime still have a loong combo on 5 shots? 

2sec sounds slow (but thx God for the increased fire speed), I would have liked 6 sec with every sniper.. I know it is a fast pace game, but would still like to be able to take my goddamn time to place my shots.

The decreases zoom level are welcome for the current tilesets... 
But for a huge open world I wonder why you would reduce the zoom-lvl.

Also see no point in dmg fall off (even though it might not matter with less zoom lvl and at that range).

Some good and long awaited changes, plus some that puzzles me.

The extra headshot dmg? Well cool enough but less usefull than dmg overall if you are not given the time to place your shots."

 

so well abit confused by some of the changes.. rewarding us for headshot and rushshots.

The Punch Through are nice though. Great QoL improvement.

[DarkDullahan]

12 minutes ago, Oktavia said:

I don't think it's "stupid hard" but honestly that'd be cool, yeah.

It makes me sad that Daikyu mod is only for Daikyu, also it caps off at an amount that makes it barely (if even) worth it but that's another matter, as well as not an issue if it was innate thing.

I feel they should add a variable to Spring-loaded Broadhead to make the damage increase the farther away the target is (2% damage increase per every 5m or something to that effect), cause if you can hit the target at that distance, you deserve the damage increase. This would put it on par with the rathuum mods that scale with enemy health, in a sense.

[(PSN)Cephalon_Snow]

Great job!  This is exactly what we need!

[Dequire]

I'm glad to see that snipers aren't being so harshly punished for missing, but damage drop off? Shrinking the timer? Why? It's a sniper, why is there a maximum range on a weapon that's meant to be used at extreme range and taking your time to line up your shots? It's a crowd killing game, but snipers are built, as always, to be SNIPERS. For accuracy, for taking the time to line up that perfect shot on a priority target, keeping a distance to take them by surprise and avoid risk, why are you punishing people for using sniper tactics?

 

ANYONE who has used snipers for any amount of time can tell you that this is a bad way to go about sniping. They're not supposed to be fan fired like ye old western six shooters, and they're sure as hell not assault rifles. I want to take my Lanka, find a spot behind my team, and blow off that heavy gunner's face with a well timed shot while my team takes care of the grunt force. Not be punished for being outside of full auto range and for taking more than, literally, two seconds to pick and sight in my target. God help you if you have to CHARGE a shot, too.

[(XBOX)iDEATH]

I'm just curious as to why the zoom levels are all being reduced at the same time that we're being given a huge open area to snipe in? It just seems counterintuitive.

As others have noted, a huge buff to the travel speed of the Lanka projectile should probably be explored as well.

The rest of the changes, especally to the combo counter, look great to me.

[DecadeX]

6 minutes ago, Dequire said:

I'm glad to see that snipers aren't being so harshly punished for missing, but damage drop off? Shrinking the timer? Why? It's a sniper, why is there a maximum range on a weapon that's meant to be used at extreme range and taking your time to line up your shots? It's a crowd killing game, but snipers are built, as always, to be SNIPERS. For accuracy, for taking the time to line up that perfect shot on a priority target, keeping a distance to take them by surprise and avoid risk, why are you punishing people for using sniper tactics?

 

ANYONE who has used snipers for any amount of time can tell you that this is a bad way to go about sniping. They're not supposed to be fan fired like ye old western six shooters, and they're sure as hell not assault rifles. I want to take my Lanka, find a spot behind my team, and blow off that heavy gunner's face with a well timed shot while my team takes care of the grunt force. Not be punished for being outside of full auto range and for taking more than, literally, two seconds to pick and sight in my target. God help you if you have to CHARGE a shot, too.

Although I agree with you on the zoom levels, I do think you missed something important. Combo doesn't disappear entirely when the timer runs out it just decays by one. On most snipers that will already be good enough, and with the hordes of grunt units, yeah you can find a guy to shoot to stop your decay. That and the Lanka has a longer combo timer than all the other snipers. The thing you've ignored is that while you're taking your time to line up your shot that Heavy Gunner is shooting your teammates. You don't have 2 seconds even with a longer combo timer. As far as the fall off range I'll have to wait on that one before passing judgement. At this point I don't know how well or poorly it will work. It will depend mostly on how the plains are laid out given Shy's excellent point that they're more like hills than plains.

[DarkDullahan]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)iDEATH said:

I'm just curious as to why the zoom levels are all being reduced at the same time that we're being given a huge open area to snipe in? It just seems counterintuitive.

As others have noted, a huge buff to the travel speed of the Lanka projectile should probably be explored as well.

The rest of the changes, especally to the combo counter, look great to me.

You and a bunch of us, you're not alone in the confusion.

2 minutes ago, DecadeX said:

Although I agree with you on the zoom levels, I do think you missed something important. Combo doesn't disappear entirely when the timer runs out it just decays by one. On most snipers that will already be good enough, and with the hordes of grunt units, yeah you can find a guy to shoot to stop your decay. That and the Lanka has a longer combo timer than all the other snipers. The thing you've ignored is that while you're taking your time to line up your shot that Heavy Gunner is shooting your teammates. You don't have 2 seconds even with a longer combo timer. As far as the fall off range I'll have to wait on that one before passing judgement. At this point I don't know how well or poorly it will work. It will depend mostly on how the plains are laid out given Shy's excellent point that they're more like hills than plains.

You're also assuming everyone will run with others, and that those others cant take care of themselves for that matter.

[Testostzzet]

There's a lot of good ideas in this thread on how to improve things further, but I myself have nothing to add other than: Thank You. Snipers have always had a special place in my heart and I am super psyched to see them being given some real love. Adding the sway without adding a way to temporarily remove it really killed them for me. Very happy to see it's gone. And the new combo system sounds a lot better. I kind of wish it applied to Melee, too, honestly. Having all your damage stacks disappear because you didn't want to slap Body Count into a mod slot for once and there were no enemies closer than ten feet away, is still a huge bummer.

Thank you again!

[Lholland]

13 minutes ago, Dequire said:

I'm glad to see that snipers aren't being so harshly punished for missing, but damage drop off? Shrinking the timer? Why? It's a sniper, why is there a maximum range on a weapon that's meant to be used at extreme range and taking your time to line up your shots? It's a crowd killing game, but snipers are built, as always, to be SNIPERS. For accuracy, for taking the time to line up that perfect shot on a priority target, keeping a distance to take them by surprise and avoid risk, why are you punishing people for using sniper tactics?

 

ANYONE who has used snipers for any amount of time can tell you that this is a bad way to go about sniping. They're not supposed to be fan fired like ye old western six shooters, and they're sure as hell not assault rifles. I want to take my Lanka, find a spot behind my team, and blow off that heavy gunner's face with a well timed shot while my team takes care of the grunt force. Not be punished for being outside of full auto range and for taking more than, literally, two seconds to pick and sight in my target. God help you if you have to CHARGE a shot, too.

Well for 1, snipers will have longest range, so you can still stay behind your team and blast someone’s face, and for 2, Lanka has an extended time of 6 seconds, not 2.

and as to why they are “punishing” precision, it’s because there is no sway, so it is a lot easier and quicker to line up a long range shot

p.s. Without damage fall-off they’d be extremely OP, and to be fair the fall-off isn’t even that bad

[DarkDullahan]

1 minute ago, Lholland said:

Well for 1, snipers will have longest range, so you can still stay behind your team and blast someone’s face, and for 2, Lanka has an extended time of 6 seconds, not 2.

and as to why they are “punishing” precision, it’s because there is no sway, so it is a lot easier and quicker to line up a long range shot

p.s. Without damage fall-off they’d be extremely OP, and to be fair the fall-off isn’t even that bad

50% reduction is pretty bad. On top of that, they're making the range even shorter than that basically turning snipers into mid-ranged weapons, once again as displayed by @ADDgamer45's screenshots so an "easy" long-ranged shot isn't going to happen with those zoom changes, at all.

[AdunSaveMe]

Scope sway is removed, awesome. But I'm not seeing the other major issue with snipers: their hipfire. Scopes should be encouraged with their bonuses, not made mandatory to use the weapon. Bring back old hipfire accuracy. This is not a realistic game. Snipers do not need pseudo-realism.

 

[Lholland]

 

1 minute ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

50% reduction is pretty bad. On top of that, they're making the range even shorter than that basically turning snipers into mid-ranged weapons, once again as displayed by @ADDgamer45's screenshots so an "easy" long-ranged shot isn't going to happen with those zoom changes, at all.

To be completely fair though, 12x zoom was almost never helpful in a normal mission, so changing that isn’t that big of a deal, and anyway, 50% damage is still enough to wreck a grineer 

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Really strange logic indeed. For years snipers were pretty much useless because waframe was a corridor shooter and nobody needed a 12x zoom on a weapon with bad crits in a 20 m long corridor... And now that we finally get a map that has distances to allow 100+meters sniping, and sniper can finally find their niche and become useful, you intend to nerf the zooms, in essence making it near impossible to hit anything above 100m anyway, in effect making snipers kinda useless.

I spent enough time in the simulacrum in the last couple of days testing max zoomed snipers at 150 ish meters and I can tell you, even with the 12X models, their zoom seem pretty far... I can only imagine how impossible it will be to hit a moving target at 400 meters with trees and obstacles in the way using a 6X ish zoom.

[ADDgamer45]

2 minutes ago, Lholland said:

 

To be completely fair though, 12x zoom was almost never helpful in a normal mission, so changing that isn’t that big of a deal, and anyway, 50% damage is still enough to wreck a grineer 

By that logic we should just remove snipers from the game entirely, or turn them into assault rifles. 

[DarkDullahan]

2 minutes ago, Lholland said:

 

To be completely fair though, 12x zoom was almost never helpful in a normal mission, so changing that isn’t that big of a deal, and anyway, 50% damage is still enough to wreck a grineer 

I know players that used the 12x zoom in close quarters missions very well. While it's not my cup of tea, Plains is definitely not by any means a "normal" mission, so the 12x zoom would be a big deal since 12x is the only zoom that could get you remotely close to a 400m shot in Warframe.

[Lholland]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Really strange logic indeed. For years snipers were pretty much useless because waframe was a corridor shooter and nobody needed a 12x zoom on a weapon with bad crits... And now that we finally get a map that has distances to allow 100+meters sniping, and sniper can finally find their niche and become useful, you intend to nerf the zooms, in essence making it near impossible to hit anything above 100m anyway, in effect making snipers kinda useless.

Lol, what? With a 6x zoom it will still be easy to hit a target at 400m since there won’t be any sway. All you have to do is line up your shot and fire now instead of time it to account for swaying

[DarkDullahan]

Just now, Lholland said:

Lol, what? With a 6x zoom it will still be easy to hit a target at 400m since there won’t be any sway. All you have to do is line up your shot and fire now instead of time it to account for swaying

You're not accounting weapon accuracy at all, snipers in WF aren't 100% accurate all the time. You're also assuming the "Pixel" of an enemy is going to sit still and wait for you to line it up.

[Chitanda.Eru]

x6 Zoom of the Snipetron Vandal just like the planed zoom Rework of most of the sniper rifles. this is what its look like at 100m. It Completely negates the need for 400-600meter damage fall off range. and since the Bonus of the Zoom-in mode is now tied to head shots on SOME sniper rifles it will be harder to benefit from it if you Use sniper rifles for their INTENDED purpose of long range combat- hence being called a sniper rifle. while the combo system rework of sniper rifles is pretty good, its forcing you to do clutch shots instead of well aimed shots which is what you should be doing. since the combo will decay after 2 seconds you will be forced to keep firing. the combo duration are fine as they are since they have ups and downs with reload speed or magazine size. if anything some of the sniper rifles needed a combo duration buff instead of a nerf.

 

[Cloudyvisage]

This is excellent, sniper rifle scopes have been one of the things holding them back, I'm not sure about the max range being reduced, though without reticle sway it's very possible to land those shots now, the minimum range being reduced is phenomenal to usage outside PoE.

The general buffs across the board is well appreciated, though I would like to know if multi-shot considers a target that just died to its originating shot as a miss, this could be a reason to take off Split Chamber which could lead to issues as I'm reasonably sure there will be a lot of people complaining about that despite snipers that would be aiming for the combo counter really not needing it.

Burst snipers like anti sortie boss Lanka don't care about the combo counter anyway so Split Chamber would remain on regardless of combo changes.

An interesting thought, all around lovely buff, Thank You!

[Lholland]

1 minute ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

I know players that used the 12x zoom in close quarters missions very well. While it's not my cup of tea, Plains is definitely not by any means a "normal" mission, so the 12x zoom would be a big deal since 12x is the only zoom that could get you remotely close to a 400m shot in Warframe.

Actually, without sway a 400m shot will be a piece of cake, all you have to do is line it up

[Dequire]

4 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

 This is not a realistic game. Snipers do not need pseudo-realism.

 

Ah, snipers, or any weapon for that matter, do not gain accuracy because you look down a scope. The weapon itself is just as accurate regardless of how it's held or sighted, the bullet will be just as pin point regardless. Hip fire doesn't mean you have a chance of hitting the wall behind you, it just means that you yourself aren't 100% accurate with the weapon. Unless you have it at LITERAL hip level (Which you never have the weapon below your shoulder in Warframe) it isn't hard to get a head shot at reasonably close range with any weapon. Unless you're going for 20+ meters you're still pretty accurate with or without the sights.

[ADDgamer45]

1 minute ago, Lholland said:

Lol, what? With a 6x zoom it will still be easy to hit a target at 400m since there won’t be any sway. All you have to do is line up your shot and fire now instead of time it to account for swaying

I will upload this YET AGAIN HIT A 400m Headshot I DARE YOU