Plains of Eidolon: Sniper Review!

[SolidJames]

1 minute ago, SSI_Deadpool said:

I dont know if this is asked before but cant we make all snipers silent as default? maybe not %100 silent but still doesnt make sense to me when it alerts everyone when shooted. (ı know there are mods for it but it means 1 less slot)

If you want a silent weapon, use a bow. Making sniper rifles innately silent not only makes no sense, but would kill the usefulness of bows entirely.

 

Plus if you engage at long enough distances, they can't hear you anyway.

[ShamWowBrand]

I'm looking forward to these changes and to see what our lords DE do with this, especially since all of it is still a work in progress I can't wait to see what comes out

[Slayer89]

I'l say let's wait and see [DE]Rebecca said the changes are not final and can be changed so there's no use of stressing over it, and as it is the my longest shots were around 211 meter on corpus interception with Vectis prime and i don't think there will be much longer shots on the plains due to natural covers (Trees, hills, boulders and whatnot)

[millionsofcats]

20 hours ago, DrBorris said:

No removal of hip-fire accuracy penalty? These changes will be great for the plains, but without being able to consistently hip-fire Snipers are still going to be a pain pretty much everywhere else. 

 

Edit: Also, as the guy below me said, for being "precision" instruments, having such inconsistency in damage (through inconsistent critical stats) makes firing a sniper often feel more like playing a game of chance than playing a game of skill. 

I can agree to snipers getting a critical chance buff, lanka is in a good place, but vulkar wraith for example only gets up to 50% and vectis prime only like 62%, for precision weapons crits would seem to make sense but bows outclass snipers in every regard other than hitscan and range (lankas projectile speed is really fast). I think this sniper buff will definitely increase the actuaard for scoring headshots but the criteria chance def needs to be looked at for some of the snipers 

[BrazilianJoe]

Remember Diriga. Its weapon needs to be buffed as well. 

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

3 hours ago, CpTKugelHagel said:

do you mean the dmg falloff or the weapon stats change?

Both

[Yargami]

7 minutes ago, Slayer89 said:

 so there's no use of stressing over it

   This is pretty much my motto in life. I could get upset about all sorts of stuff, but what's the point? I can state what I think without wasting energy and be happier and less stressed in the end.

7 minutes ago, Slayer89 said:

i don't think there will be much longer shots on the plains due to natural covers (Trees, hills, boulders and whatnot)

   This seems to be something people don't seem to think about much. Yes, the plains are over 2km long, but watching the devstreams and such, there's no way we can snipe that anyways. The only way you could do that is via Archwing, and balancing an entire weapon category around one tiny (compared to the rest of the game) possibility seems kind of silly.

[Azamagon]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

 

I would love to hear them also.  :D

I agree with most of this post.  **Snipped the other parts of the quote because those don't worry me as much**  

The Crit Chances and zoom levels worry me the most.  Also looks like all the other sniper rifles were buffed to match the damage of the Rubico, while the Rubico itself got a serious nerf to zoom in comparison.  Unless the Combo counter boosts crit chance up to 100% or more, I'm a little worried about the overall state the Rubico will be in.  It's main advantages were high zoom and crit damage.  

Only the crit chances truly worry me. Relying on RNG when using a slow precision weapon is just wrong on so many levels.

Zoom levels, while sad that they won't be as awesome for PoE, will probably at least be very suitable for the rest of the game.

Rubico doesn't rely on headshots for its scope bonus though (but would still be better if used on headshots, of course), so Rubico's bonus is still superior overall. Also, I'd be rather pissed if we could boost crit chance to 100% via the combo counter. Because the FIRST shot should be reliable, not the 5th (or whatever shot would be guaranteed). I can see the sadness of the Rubico's zoom levels being so severely reduced though.

[HaydenSpirit]

4 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

Only the crit chances truly worry me. Relying on RNG when using a slow precision weapon is just wrong on so many levels.

Zoom levels, while sad that they won't be as awesome for PoE, will probably at least be very suitable for the rest of the game.

Rubico doesn't rely on headshots for its scope bonus though (but would still be better if used on headshots, of course), so Rubico's bonus is still superior overall. Also, I'd be rather pissed if we could boost crit chance to 100% via the combo counter. Because the FIRST shot should be reliable, not the 5th (or whatever shot would be guaranteed). I can see the sadness of the Rubico's zoom levels being so severely reduced though.

totally your opinion

[eviad]

Please please please increase the combo duration, 2 sec make arkonar scope mandatory, which is yet another slot taken on our sniper

[ADDgamer45]

41 minutes ago, SolidWulf said:

It means that under normal shooting conditions, we won't feel the effects of damage falloff when using snipers. That sounds like a good deal to me.

You forget about the artillery shells also. You won't be sniping at 300m 

[tarfeef101]

1 hour ago, Gr1mjaw said:

Whips out Sicarus prime with 5/5 disposition

Yeah, while I love mine and riven(s) I have for it, I expect that disposition to drop. Especially if it becomes available again for people to farm.

[Sorenxoras]

1 hour ago, nicholas224 said:

I dont really see why we shouldn't have it, it would be harmless to almost every one else and help improve the close range a little bit.

I personaly use my rubico in close range all the time and i have no real issue concerning accuracy but short-middle distance encounters suffer.

You may not appreiciate this but there are others like me who enjoy the kind of game play given by hip-fired, dead-center shots. 

This is a weird little game but the kinda gun play we are trying to accomplish is similar to intigib game modes of the past shown here http://store.steampowered.com/app/338170/Ratz_Instagib/.

Truth be told, Im gonna need a a much better reason that beats FUN to not have hipfire accuracy, and "realism" isnt a good enough excuse any more.

ALSO, I take offence to "Snipers aren't supposed-", just stop right there.

We have a amazing plethora of guns, each one more interesting then the last, something innovated, something unique, maybe a tweak, or a system. Hell as of late we got the arca serries, and specificly the arca plasma. They took everything that a shotgun was, alll the ,mayjor points of what defined a pump action style gun. And then they put thier spin on it.

Sure, we could make a pellet shotgun, but that isn't very warframe now is it. No we got something much more inspired. We got a unique wide projectile weapon that influences a unique kind of gunplay where aiming to just MISS the target can and often will get you more hits. The took what a shotgun does effectively and turned it on it's head.

We should be much less concerned with what something should be and instead look at what they could be. And these changes are doing just that.

In stead of focusing solely on nerfs and buffs, they are looking at what is specificly holding  snipers back, what they excel at, and how to improve the unique combo system afforded these weapons.

And each of the improvements given where echoed by the community countless times.

zoom, punch through,combo counter delays/countdowns/decays/ even the miss penalty was community suggested.

Forgive me if i sound irritable, but the entire list of changes made ticks off almost every major problem snipers have had point for point save for the hip fire. At this point i am beyond the belief that snipers are what they should be. 

In fact i don't think any thing in this game should be held to what it should be. This is warframe. there is nothing quite like it, and that is because the devs aren't concerned about what "should be" but rather what it could be.

Long run, if i dont get hip fire accuracy, we will still get these amazing changes, But seriously, realism is a moot @(*()$ point (see most of the PoE update for Christ sake) and worrying about the balancing nature of hip fire accuracy seems kind of dense at this point. We got sway removed, a solely sniper Nerf and mechanic because some one thought that snipers should have been that way.

But look at us now.

 

TL:DR Who cares what snipers are supposed to be for! this is warframe, one of the most unique and innovative shooters out there. Have a little imagination, snipers can have more value outside of just long range encounters, you just have to be creative. Realism is the antithesis of creativity, and warframe is a very creative game.

I can totally see what you're saying. But i still stand by what i said, why would you call something a sniper rifle when it is very obviously not a sniper anymore? Playing off of what you said about Warframe having a tone of guns being unique, why not just make some with some interesting and unique abilities instead of taking away what makes a sniper rifle a sniper rifles? Yeah the zoom thing sucks, it means they'll still suck at being sniper rifles. DE is definitely wrong to lower the zoom capabilities, but the hip fire thing is fine as is. Instead of making the sniper rifle like other guns, why not focus on what makes a sniper rifle different from the other guns and work off of that instead? 

A sniper that highlights weak points when at max zoom, a sniper that has an innate 100% freeze proc rate on head shots, a sniper that has slight homing capabilities so that it has a slightly higher margin for error, An armor piercing sniper that bypasses 50% armor, a three shot burst sniper with light recoil during shot and a harsh recoil at the end.

There are plenty of ways to make snipers cool but still keep them feeling like sniper rifles. Snipers are a niche gun, but so are a lot of other warframes and weapons in warframe. There's nothing wrong with that. Having niche stuff helps to inspire variety because it makes it so you can have guns that not everybody are going to be able to user for everything. It lets you have more unique stuff that while it may not be the end all badass super weapon, like the tigris series, they still can be fun to the people that like a particular niche. So instead of making them less of a sniper rifle, make them more of a sniper rife, but still give them warframe's fun twist.

[ADDgamer45]

2 minutes ago, Sorenxoras said:

I can totally see what you're saying. But i still stand by what i said, why would you call something a sniper rifle when it is very obviously not a sniper anymore? Playing off of what you said about Warframe having a tone of guns being unique, why not just make some with some interesting and unique abilities instead of taking away what makes a sniper rifle a sniper rifles? Yeah the zoom thing sucks, it means they'll still suck at being sniper rifles. DE is definitely wrong to lower the zoom capabilities, but the hip fire thing is fine as is. Instead of making the sniper rifle like other guns, why not focus on what makes a sniper rifle different from the other guns and work off of that instead? 

A sniper that highlights weak points when at max zoom, a sniper that has an innate 100% freeze proc rate on head shots, a sniper that has slight homing capabilities so that it has a slightly higher margin for error, An armor piercing sniper that bypasses 50% armor, a three shot burst sniper with light recoil during shot and a harsh recoil at the end.

There are plenty of ways to make snipers cool but still keep them feeling like sniper rifles. Snipers are a niche gun, but so are a lot of other warframes and weapons in warframe. There's nothing wrong with that. Having niche stuff helps to inspire variety because it makes it so you can have guns that not everybody are going to be able to user for everything. It lets you have more unique stuff that while it may not be the end all badass super weapon, like the tigris series, they still can be fun to the people that like a particular niche. So instead of making them less of a sniper rifle, make them more of a sniper rife, but still give them warframe's fun twist.

Can I upvote this more times?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

4 minutes ago, Sorenxoras said:

I can totally see what you're saying. But i still stand by what i said, why would you call something a sniper rifle when it is very obviously not a sniper anymore? Playing off of what you said about Warframe having a tone of guns being unique, why not just make some with some interesting and unique abilities instead of taking away what makes a sniper rifle a sniper rifles? Yeah the zoom thing sucks, it means they'll still suck at being sniper rifles. DE is definitely wrong to lower the zoom capabilities, but the hip fire thing is fine as is. Instead of making the sniper rifle like other guns, why not focus on what makes a sniper rifle different from the other guns and work off of that instead? 

A sniper that highlights weak points when at max zoom, a sniper that has an innate 100% freeze proc rate on head shots, a sniper that has slight homing capabilities so that it has a slightly higher margin for error, An armor piercing sniper that bypasses 50% armor, a three shot burst sniper with light recoil during shot and a harsh recoil at the end.

There are plenty of ways to make snipers cool but still keep them feeling like sniper rifles. Snipers are a niche gun, but so are a lot of other warframes and weapons in warframe. There's nothing wrong with that. Having niche stuff helps to inspire variety because it makes it so you can have guns that not everybody are going to be able to user for everything. It lets you have more unique stuff that while it may not be the end all badass super weapon, like the tigris series, they still can be fun to the people that like a particular niche. So instead of making them less of a sniper rifle, make them more of a sniper rife, but still give them warframe's fun twist.

Completely agree, zoom nerf is weird.

[NDarkstar]

That Lanka change looks like a straight nerf. Any particular reason why? Really don't like it.

[(XBOX)KILLA BIG MAC]

This is a bandaid fix. There's not much improvement made here to make the snipers truly viable. They all pretty much do the same thing and the fix to scope sway and combo counter were just long overdue. No new gimmicks for different snipers all just still plain Jane. No need to reduce scope zoom just add an over the shoulder before first zoom level. 

[SolidJames]

16 minutes ago, ADDgamer45 said:

You forget about the artillery shells also. You won't be sniping at 300m 

 

If they can fire artillery shells at you without you being spotted, then that's a separate broken mechanic. If you're using a sniper rifle and are spotted, then you're using it wrong. Can't have everyone screeching that these sniper rifles aren't "realistic" but then want to use them unrealistically (while under fire).

[ADDgamer45]

4 minutes ago, SolidWulf said:

 

If they can fire artillery shells at you without you being spotted, then that's a separate broken mechanic. If you're using a sniper rifle and are spotted, then you're using it wrong. Can't have everyone screeching that these sniper rifles aren't "realistic" but then want to use them unrealistically (while under fire).

Did you watch the gameplay or not. You will note the artillery was shot off before a bullet was even fired.

[SolidJames]

Just now, ADDgamer45 said:

Did you watch the gameplay or not. You will note the artillery was shot off before a bullet was even fired.

You can be spotted without firing weapons. But that's beside the point. As I said, if artillery can be fired upon you without you being spotted, then artillery is a broken mechanic that needs addressing separately from this sniper rifle topic.

[BladeRambler]

11 minutes ago, NDarkstar said:

That Lanka change looks like a straight nerf. Any particular reason why? Really don't like it.

It is awkwardly-worded, but read it again: it takes 1 second to fully charge the Lanka now, not 1.5 seconds, so it is a huge buff (should say charge 'time' decreased, not 'rate').

[Sickle_Slayer]

21 hours ago, Mk_1 said:

wait what? but why?

Because the combo counter has been changed from a complete drop off if you miss into a form of decay. It's much more forgiving and in the long run, it turns out much better since after the 2 seconds pass you will only lose 1 combo, the same goes for missing a shot. Before you would have completely lost all your combo if you missed or the counter ran out. 

At least that's why I assume it's been changed.

[NDarkstar]

11 minutes ago, BladeRambler said:

It is awkwardly-worded, but read it again: it takes 1 second to fully charge the Lanka now, not 1.5 seconds, so it is a huge buff (should say charge 'time' decreased, not 'rate').

Ah. Been awake too long, brain gets melty. Joys of insomnia.

[Dobroazur]

15 minutes ago, ADDgamer45 said:

Did you watch the gameplay or not. You will note the artillery was shot off before a bullet was even fired.

Don't look at that as actual gameplay, the part shown at tennocon was heavily scripted and had things FORCED to happen to make a good show of it. The mortar firing was 100% one of those, it looked awesome and it would have been a shame risking not showing it because of chance.

[ADDgamer45]

4 minutes ago, SolidWulf said:

You can be spotted without firing weapons. But that's beside the point. As I said, if artillery can be fired upon you without you being spotted, then artillery is a broken mechanic that needs addressing separately from this sniper rifle topic.

I'm still trying to figure out if you want a sniper rifle nerf or a group of scoped assault rifles. The arca sisco works better as an assault rifle than the snipers will to be completely honest, if that is what you are looking for. Other people including myself are looking for a new aspect in the form of long range combat in warframe that we have never had before. Something different that fills a niche that warframe doesn't have without having to put time that we don't have in another game. Something that is literally easier to leave alone than change.