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Plains of Eidolon: Sniper Review!


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2 minutes ago, ADDgamer45 said:

Been here all day.

 

Just now, Chitanda.Eru said:

yeah you've been working hard fending off heresy. been reading them post and arguments.

Truly warriors of Justice, I commend you salt-brigade, doing our lord and savior Anti-Materiel's good work.

 

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3 hours ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

You're also not accounting for multishot trajectory variations on the majority of the snipers (cause only 2 or 3 of the snipers currently have a base 100% accuracy rating), even at a 100m range this effects things to an unsightly amount, let alone at a 400m+ range

It doesn't change the fact that that's not even half the distance that snipers are going to be effective in the change. You might want to consider the fact that enemy models will be about 2.5 times smaller than they are in that gif, and that only a few of the snipers have 100% accuracy, so multishot on a Vectis or Vulkar is going to impact them more heavily than Rubico.

x12 is still usable, even with scope sway, I know this because I can personally use it, as can quite a number of my friends that use snipers. Don't complain with us that there's a difficulty gate while arguing that snipers don't require skill, it make a moot point.

The multishot issue doesn't go away because of greater zoom, so it's completely moot to bring into the conversation. We can all advocate for 100% accuracy on all snipers. The argument was "no one will be able to hit targets 400 meters away at 6x zoom", which is false.

I don't think you understand the fact I was using 2.5x scope in that gif. Yes the enemies are closer, but it's more than compensated for by the very small zoom I'm using. The enemy on-screen is the same exact size as you'd expect at 300-400 meters with 6x zoom.

I never once said snipers don't take skill, in fact that's the opposite of my point. I'm saying people should learn to shoot well as opposed to sit here and claim it is literally impossible to shoot at long ranges with 6x scopes.

You can use 12x zoom, fantastic, I too know a lot of people who don't use it though.

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5 minutes ago, SolidWulf said:

The multishot issue doesn't go away because of greater zoom, so it's completely moot to bring into the conversation. We can all advocate for 100% accuracy on all snipers. The argument was "no one will be able to hit targets 400 meters away at 6x zoom", which is false.

I don't think you understand the fact I was using 2.5x scope in that gif. Yes the enemies are closer, but it's more than compensated for by the very small zoom I'm using. The enemy on-screen is the same exact size as you'd expect at 300-400 meters with 6x zoom.

I never once said snipers don't take skill, in fact that's the opposite of my point. I'm saying people should learn to shoot well as opposed to sit here and claim it is literally impossible to shoot at long ranges with 6x scopes.

You can use 12x zoom, fantastic, I too know a lot of people who don't use it though.

Yes, but at that point they still become marksman rifles as opposed to being >>>Snipers<<

It doesn't matter how many people use it and how many don't, it's an extraordinarily underwhelming amount of zoom for the weapon category and it removes the feel that is yet again, >>>Snipers<<<

Good for you if you feel that that's more than adequate enough, there are people that feel it's not. Just because the enemy will be the same size at the proportioned levels, also doesn't mean that it's the size that the enemy should be at those levels, they're snipers for a reason, leave them be.

You also have to take into account that not everyone is going to sit there and try to track an ant on their screen, especially a newer player coming in and expecting their sniper to be an actual sniper, not a marksman rifle with a tiny zoom.

Edited by DarkDullahan-Prime
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They do not listen to regular players I do not even know why you still try, if you want something to be change you have to be a favorite of theirs and they have to know you. the forum is just an outlet so you could feel good about giving your opinion, not keeping it bottled up inside. Watch this will not be disputed by the DE, maybe someone else but not them. Prove me wrong lets see an administrator explain why they nerfed the snipers, because it is not for game quality. so who did you listen to and where did they get there info from on this reduction in the sniper rifles.

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16 hours ago, leadwolf1 said:

They do not listen to regular players I do not even know why you still try, if you want something to be change you have to be a favorite of theirs and they have to know you. the forum is just an outlet so you could feel good about giving your opinion, not keeping it bottled up inside. Watch this will not be disputed by the DE, maybe someone else but not them. Prove me wrong lets see an administrator explain why they nerfed the snipers, because it is not for game quality. so who did you listen to and where did they get there info from on this reduction in the sniper rifles.

as sad as this is,  but to answer your question

16 hours ago, leadwolf1 said:

I do not even know why you still try

its just like what you said, mostly to not keep it bottled inside. you can call them futile efforts but thats just how people are.

 

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55 minutes ago, Chitanda.Eru said:

Back again to defend the rights of sniper rifles to actually be sniper rifles and I'd like to say amen to that brother.

 

50 minutes ago, ADDgamer45 said:

Been here all day.

 

At least I know I have some brothers in arms :)

(see what I did there? in arms? cause we're talking about weapons...)

(okay I'll show myself out)

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46 minutes ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

Yes, but at that point they still become marksman rifles as opposed to being >>>Snipers<<

It doesn't matter how many people use it and how many don't, it's an extraordinarily underwhelming amount of zoom for the weapon category and it removes the feel that is yet again, >>>Snipers<<<

Good for you if you feel that that's more than adequate enough, there are people that feel it's not. Just because the enemy will be the same size at the proportioned levels, also doesn't mean that it's the size that the enemy should be at those levels, they're snipers for a reason, leave them be.

You also have to take into account that not everyone is going to sit there and try to track an ant on their screen, especially a newer player coming in and expecting their sniper to be an actual sniper, not a marksman rifle with a tiny zoom.

The point is that engaging enemies beyond 300-400 meters isn't something the game currently supports in its balance. If you want to be able to do that, then you also need a rework of the AI to go along with it. Even at 120 meters, the grineer can not detect you right now. Unless that gets changed, then allowing you to shoot from halfway across the map is destroying the balance and allowing you to cheese all of the grineer in PoE. DE doesn't want that, and I don't see how anyone can blame them.

The Latron and Tiberon don't have scopes. They are marksman rifles. The fact I get a scope and increased zoom makes sniper rifles feel like sniper rifles. Reducing the zoom from 12x to 6x doesn't suddenly destroy sniper rifles forever as everyone is acting like it does. It just means your dream of sniping from a kilometer away is gone, which a lot of people jumped the gun on despite DE saying they are reworking snipers.

Edited by SolidWulf
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8 minutes ago, SolidWulf said:

The point is that engaging enemies beyond 300-400 meters isn't something the game currently supports in its balance. If you want to be able to do that, then you also need a rework of the AI to go along with it. Even at 120 meters, the grineer can not detect you right now. Unless that gets changed, then allowing you to shoot from halfway across the map is destroying the balance and allowing you to cheese all of the grineer in PoE. DE doesn't want that, and I don't see how anyone can blame them.

The Latron and Tiberon don't have scopes. They are marksman rifles. The fact I get a scope and increased zoom makes sniper rifles feel like sniper rifles. Reducing the zoom from 12x to 6x doesn't suddenly destroy sniper rifles forever as everyone is acting like it does. It just means your dream of sniping from a kilometer away is gone, which a lot of people jumped the gun on despite DE saying they are reworking snipers.

e240985805648603fc933cae22cb372e.jpg
https://gyazo.com/e240985805648603fc933cae22cb372e

Tis a lot of scopes. And they can spot dead bodies btw.

Edited by ADDgamer45
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15 minutes ago, SolidWulf said:

The point is that engaging enemies beyond 300-400 meters isn't something the game currently supports in its balance. If you want to be able to do that, then you also need a rework of the AI to go along with it. Even at 120 meters, the grineer can not detect you right now. Unless that gets changed, then allowing you to shoot from halfway across the map is destroying the balance and allowing you to cheese all of the grineer in PoE. DE doesn't want that, and I don't see how anyone can blame them.

The Latron and Tiberon don't have scopes. They are marksman rifles. The fact I get a scope and increased zoom makes sniper rifles feel like sniper rifles. Reducing the zoom from 12x to 6x doesn't suddenly destroy sniper rifles forever as everyone is acting like it does. It just means your dream of sniping from a kilometer away is gone, which a lot of people jumped the gun on despite DE saying they are reworking snipers.

So how about a mechanic where if you're scoped within x metres of an enemy for over y seconds, they get alerted? Seems like a good fix to me. And probably a necessary balancing act

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15 hours ago, tarfeef101 said:

So how about a mechanic where if you're scoped within x metres of an enemy for over y seconds, they get alerted? Seems like a good fix to me. And probably a necessary balancing act

too weird. its like they have Psychic powers. maybe an MGS style "CP! CP! this is patrol! The enemy is attacking from an unknown position!

CP : acknowledge sending reinforcements use extra caution" :D

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1 minute ago, Chitanda.Eru said:

too weird. its like they have Psychic powers. maybe an MGS style "CP! CP! this is patrol! The enemy is attacking from an unknown position!

CP : acknowledge sending reinforcements use extra caution" :D

Enemies in warframe can detect dead bodies. You shoot wrong and an alert goes up.

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15 hours ago, ADDgamer45 said:

Enemies in warframe can detect dead bodies. You shoot wrong and an alert goes up.

I know but not to the point that they would let everyone know. usually its just 1 or 3 other guys next to the Soldier who found the dead body that would be alerted. they dont really alarm everyone of an attacker.

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Just now, Chitanda.Eru said:

I know but not to the point that they would let everyone know. usually its just 1 or 3 other guys next to the Soldier who found the dead body that would be alerted. they dont really alarm everyone of an attacker.

I imagine it wouldn't be hard to set them to alert of an attack if they detect a dead body. thus making precision shots extremely important.

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15 hours ago, Chitanda.Eru said:
16 hours ago, ADDgamer45 said:

Enemies in warframe can detect dead bodies. You shoot wrong and an alert goes up.

I know but not to the point that they would let everyone know. usually its just 1 or 3 other guys next to the Soldier who found the dead body that would be alerted. they dont really alarm everyone of an attacker.

now that I think about it, these guys need comms. a radio or something.

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4 hours ago, Gr1mjaw said:

lets take a look at Sicarus disposition, still at 5/5 despite getting buffed 2 times.

 

True, but I'm expecting the worst since Snipers are being singled out. Steve's suspicious eyeing of the Rubico in Prime Time just increases the apprehension.

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1 hour ago, SolidWulf said:

The point is that engaging enemies beyond 300-400 meters isn't something the game currently supports in its balance. If you want to be able to do that, then you also need a rework of the AI to go along with it. Even at 120 meters, the grineer can not detect you right now. Unless that gets changed, then allowing you to shoot from halfway across the map is destroying the balance and allowing you to cheese all of the grineer in PoE. DE doesn't want that, and I don't see how anyone can blame them.

The Latron and Tiberon don't have scopes. They are marksman rifles. The fact I get a scope and increased zoom makes sniper rifles feel like sniper rifles. Reducing the zoom from 12x to 6x doesn't suddenly destroy sniper rifles forever as everyone is acting like it does. It just means your dream of sniping from a kilometer away is gone, which a lot of people jumped the gun on despite DE saying they are reworking snipers.

That's part of the whole thing about being a sniper, going undetected. Remember this game is supposed to have an available stealth factor to it with plains, one that hasn't been in the game in a long time. So what if an enemy can't detect you at that distance it doesn't mean they wont be alerted to one of their own dying. Remaining undetected whilst picking of enemies one by one at a long range is possible the greatest appeal that snipers offer in any video game, if the game can't allow for that along with the other aspects of snipers, it shouldn't have snipers to begin with.

And if you watched Prime Time today, you could see for yourself just how underwhelming the base Rubico zoom of x2.5 was, there's barely any difference from unscoped. Which makes the whole point of snipers moot. Leave zoom levels alone, they're perfect for PoE as they are.

47 minutes ago, Chitanda.Eru said:

I know but not to the point that they would let everyone know. usually its just 1 or 3 other guys next to the Soldier who found the dead body that would be alerted. they dont really alarm everyone of an attacker.

45 minutes ago, ADDgamer45 said:

I imagine it wouldn't be hard to set them to alert of an attack if they detect a dead body. thus making precision shots extremely important.

44 minutes ago, Chitanda.Eru said:

now that I think about it, these guys need comms. a radio or something.

There's already an alert system in place for Plains, the drones fire alert flares that call in reinforcements. They already have an alerted state in which they haven't detected you, but are suspicious of an enemy, and the alert is able to spread to other enemies, so there's no reason why this couldn't work at long distances.

Just now, LazerSkink said:

 

True, but I'm expecting the worst since Snipers are being singled out. Steve's suspicious eyeing of the Rubico in Prime Time just increases the apprehension.

That "eyeing" was more at the damage numbers than the Rubico itself, you have to think Steve isn't as much of a power player as Rebecca, so it's doubtful he's used to seeing damage numbers over the single thousands.

 

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After watching Prime Time tonight, I also noticed a few occasions (one specific point at the 48 min mark) where the enemies themselves were visibly spawning between that 100-130m range, as she was coming down the mountain. I dont know what happens to the enemies if you back off the area to a distance of 300+ meters, but Im not sure what the damage fall-off is supposed to be for if the enemies are barely spawning around 100m.

Either way, I wasnt happy with the zoom levels at all.

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