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Plains of Eidolon: Sniper Review!


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1 minute ago, DreamsmithJane said:

It might fail the mission. While you're "sniping" one enemy, ten more slip by and wreak havok. Like I said, these rifles are for long range fire support, not sniping. Semantics, I know, but I was addressing people saying this isn't a realistic way to handle sniper rifles. Basically, this game isn't built to accommodate sniping, and I don't believe PoE will change that.

   Obviously you don't do it in such a way that it risks the entire mission, but that's true (or should be true) of any gamestyle. There are plenty of places where charging into the level as fast as possible completes the mission, but there are also places where that can fail the mission. You should take a back-up playstyle in any mission.

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Glad to see snipers being looked at. Loveing the lower zoom levels.

Would love to see some mods that remove damge types (would fix the "not procking what you want" issue with single shot weapons). But honestly thats just me being picky. 

Thanks for the update!

Can't wait to try it.

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3 hours ago, CuChulainnWD said:

It will be accurate to where you point it, but "realistically' it is not as easy to draw down on a close target with a long rifle as it is to do so with a small arm he of there to draw down with my secondary and take out multiple close range threats or use my quick attack melee.

See - now this is a legitimate and realistic point that I'll happily concede to. Larger weapon, more air resistance and mass, thus slower tracking time.

*claps*

Here's my thinking...Instead of having an arbitrary "accuracy reduction", why not implement something like a tracking / weapon movement modifier? Make it so that pistols are easier and faster to swing around and bring to bear than say rifles and lmg's. A penalty like that would be insignificant at long range but would become more noticeable the closer your enemy is.

 

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Glad to see snipers being looked at. Loveing the lower zoom levels.

How can you like something you've never even tried out? For all we know, the reduced zoom levels could make it very frustrating to id and pick off targets with accuracy at extreme range in open environments like PoE.

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28 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Here's my thinking...Instead of having an arbitrary "accuracy reduction", why not implement something like a tracking / weapon movement modifier? Make it so that pistols are easier and faster to swing around and bring to bear than say rifles and lmg's. A penalty like that would be insignificant at long range but would become more noticeable the closer your enemy is.

I could see something like this if the gun and camera were separated, World of Tanks style, with the gun following behind the camera at its maximum speed if the mouse was moving faster. If it actually limited how fast you can move your mouse/camera, well, the old Star Wars Battlefront 2 was like that, and it was really annoying operating tanks without a manual rotate control separate from mouse aiming.

Though with the typical fast pacing of Warframe, WoT style could also get really annoying...

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37 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

How can you like something you've never even tried out? For all we know, the reduced zoom levels could make it very frustrating to id and pick off targets with accuracy at extreme range in open environments like PoE.

From my current experience with snipers in game I can say with certainty that I hate how far they are zoomed in and I rarely use snipers above their default zoom state. I know PoE will bring change but...there is the whole rest of the game to worry about. PoE is one (albeit large multifaceted and expansive) new map. Given I like the game as is, it is nice to see some QOL for the sniper class. I am looking forward to trying it out. 

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4 hours ago, ADDgamer45 said:

So then why have snipers in game?

We shouldn't, really. Snipers are not suited to normal Warframe gameplay. With PoE, we might finally see some gameplay where snipers are a meaningful option, mainly because the WF AI doesn't have the range to be able to deal with sniping.

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4 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

We shouldn't, really. Snipers are not suited to normal Warframe gameplay. With PoE, we might finally see some gameplay where snipers are a meaningful option, mainly because the WF AI doesn't have the range to be able to deal with sniping.

Well, I would be very happy if that was true, but what I see in the last Prime Time (#183) the enemies has almost infinite range and accuracy - Rebeca was with sniper and standing on a rock looking the surroundings when she start to take dmg. Scanning with the sniper she see some far grineers that shoot on auto fire! (53:25) And hit her...

Also - cutting the zoom lvl is ok for the regular missions but obviously bad in PoE... and this:
 

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Combo duration reduced to 2 seconds for all snipers apart from Lanka which is reduced to 6

... is beyond me...

PS: otherwise - completely agree with the first part of your post, motorfirebox;

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Regarding the Rubico: I see no mention of the zoom +damage buffs being converted to +headshot damage. Does that mean it'll keep the +damage?

Also can you please lower the reload time to something more reasonable? 3 seconds is an eternity.

And IMO all snipers should have 3 zoom levels, with the 3rd zoom being at least 10x. 6x zoom is pretty pathetic considering the size of the plains.

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Just now, (PS4)blueflameskY said:

Regarding the Rubico: I see no mention of the zoom +damage buffs being converted to +headshot damage. Does that mean it'll keep the +damage?

Also can you please lower the reload time to something more reasonable? 3 seconds is an eternity.

And IMO all snipers should have 3 zoom levels, with the 3rd zoom being at least 10x. 6x zoom is pretty pathetic considering the size of the plains.

Rubico has +critical damage, not just +damage

The reload size is surely bad, but at least it's smooth imo.

 

And I agree the zooms are pathetic, I think DE should consider adding something like "scope modes" (like stradavar has firing mods, the semi- and full- auto) that would change the ranges of zoom, when unscoped, like "Short-Range Scope" (with max being 6x) and "Long-Range Scope" (maybe 18x). The scopes could be changed while unzoomed, and when zoomed we can change the zooms and bonuses.

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On 9/28/2017 at 11:46 PM, Heartwarder said:

Also, what is the purpose of "sniper combo"? To incentivise players to shoot center-of-mass as fast as possible? It sure looks this way, but such way of thinking has no place with "sniping"! Combo as this would fit semi-auto pistols and guns. Snapshooting weapons. Wouldn't it be more fitting to incetivise calculated deadly shots by a bonus that grows over time for aiming and not moving - i.e. patiently waiting for that perfect shot - which snipers are known for. After the shot the bonus should rapidly (not instantly though) be lost and couldn't be gained until position is switched.

This is an astute observation. I find it strange that sniper rifles, a weapon class that is designed to kill in one shot (and not, say, 15 for the Vectis' combo meter) whenever it's brought out, needs to slowly build toward its highest damage potential. Only melee weapons have a similar mechanic, beyond secondaries like the Arca Scisco. Scott's desire to implement a "rhythm" for sniper rifles is well-intended, but I feel that executing a series of clean headshots is rewarding enough in its own right - players will "feel" that loss of rhythm whenever they play poorly; they don't need a statistical penalty to reinforce it.

That said, Warframe is too fast-paced a game to have a proper "analyze weakness" mechanic. Enemy pathing is also fairly predictable, and experienced players can generally telegraph where mobs will go as they line up their next shot. Instead, the combo meter could be removed in lieu of increased stats (higher base damage, critical chance or 100% additive critical bonus on headshots, as examples), or reworked into a "first strike" bonus - that is, sniper rifles start out at maximum bonus damage, and incrementally lose it as players miss shots or stay unscoped for extended periods of time.

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When you guys say that you're removing reticle sway, does that include the infuriating wobbly effect from syndicate mods when they go off?

Also, you guys rendered the Snipetron even more useless, seeing as every sniper gets innate punch through now. That was it's only advantage. At least give it something else to stand out from other snipers.

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1 hour ago, Ishteen said:

This is an astute observation. I find it strange that sniper rifles, a weapon class that is designed to kill in one shot (and not, say, 15 for the Vectis' combo meter) whenever it's brought out, needs to slowly build toward its highest damage potential. Only melee weapons have a similar mechanic, beyond secondaries like the Arca Scisco. Scott's desire to implement a "rhythm" for sniper rifles is well-intended, but I feel that executing a series of clean headshots is rewarding enough in its own right - players will "feel" that loss of rhythm whenever they play poorly; they don't need a statistical penalty to reinforce it.

That said, Warframe is too fast-paced a game to have a proper "analyze weakness" mechanic. Enemy pathing is also fairly predictable, and experienced players can generally telegraph where mobs will go as they line up their next shot. Instead, the combo meter could be removed in lieu of increased stats (higher base damage, critical chance or 100% additive critical bonus on headshots, as examples), or reworked into a "first strike" bonus - that is, sniper rifles start out at maximum bonus damage, and incrementally lose it as players miss shots or stay unscoped for extended periods of time.

You know, snipers getting a combo counter weirded me too. To me, it seems like something a particularly high rate of fire smg, assault, or machine gun type would have as a bonus while snipers would have a bonus for holding a target in the scope or show enemy weak-spots. Perhaps its following logic like that with some wargames where they give bonuses to repeated fire in the same location on tanks or heavily armored foes. Overwhelming the defenses with repeated impacts. I don't know a real-life example of that, but I do know a few full auto weapons that were designed around such a mechanic.

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3 hours ago, Urlan said:

You know, snipers getting a combo counter weirded me too. To me, it seems like something a particularly high rate of fire smg, assault, or machine gun type would have as a bonus while snipers would have a bonus for holding a target in the scope or show enemy weak-spots. Perhaps its following logic like that with some wargames where they give bonuses to repeated fire in the same location on tanks or heavily armored foes. Overwhelming the defenses with repeated impacts. I don't know a real-life example of that, but I do know a few full auto weapons that were designed around such a mechanic.

Hell they could scrap the whole combo system and implement something like the longer you stay still scoped on an enemy the larger buffs you would get to your first shot. 

It could be raw damage or crit chance it would still not matter it would still be a better system then the combo system. 

The combo system could be moved to weapons like tiberon and latron which would benefit them greatly. 

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1 hour ago, GhostLacuna said:

Hell they could scrap the whole combo system and implement something like the longer you stay still scoped on an enemy the larger buffs you would get to your first shot. 

It could be raw damage or crit chance it would still not matter it would still be a better system then the combo system. 

The combo system could be moved to weapons like tiberon and latron which would benefit them greatly. 

I could see that making sense.

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21 minutes ago, AegisArclight1999 said:

Once PoE hits, the whole meta is going to shift.

Snipers are going to rise, now that we have an open world.

probably not because there are way better choices to kill with. you need a riven to get snipers to be good.

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11 minutes ago, ADDgamer45 said:

probably not because there are way better choices to kill with. you need a riven to get snipers to be good.

I myself have no problems with snipers in general without having a riven for mine.  although I do tend to use them with The Huntress and that kinda skews things for them a tad bit with the headshot bonus.  :D

Honestly the zoom changes to snipers are making my Daikyu look even better for PoE usage.

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On 9/29/2017 at 12:08 PM, FashionFrame said:

I 100% agree with this!! Sniping is supposed to be about taking the time to line up that perfect shot. Many of the snipers are only good with that combo, and you're only making it a stressful time for someone to constantly look for an enemy to shoot, and hope you can keep that combo! The worst part, many of the sniper's reload speed is over that two seconds, so guess what?! Now we are forced to put on Primed Fast Hands so we don't lose that combo OR as Cebian stated, use Harkonar Scope.

 

Glad to see you see the issue here as well sir :laugh:. given that its going to be a wide expanse of plains to snipe in, not all of the things we'll be shooting are going to be in tight groups, so 2 seconds base time is quite a heavy loss when after you kill those 3 grineer over there. You need to spend five seconds looking for another one that was about 40 meters to the left hidden in some bushes

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You guy need to take a look at Lanka's projectile flight speed. It is barely noticeable in the small tileset but in case of such large world as Cetus and the new damage falloff thing, 200m/s is too slow... I literally could have a couple tea and also dodge the bullet in the mean time :v.

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