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Plains of Eidolon: Sniper Review!


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On 9/29/2017 at 5:58 AM, Cebian said:

How is reducing the combo counter a positive? last i checked, snipers reward their users for lining up shots instead of bang, run over to other guy and hopes it hits.Snipers aren't like the latron series or grinlok which are more suited for fast paced action, it seems to me this change was done in order for those of us who would want to take advantage of the combo counter would have to use Harkonar scope in order to make it suitable. SO your basically forcing us to use a mod in our builds that most times we have gone quite well without for a decent amount of time now

 

On 9/29/2017 at 9:08 AM, FashionFrame said:

I 100% agree with this!! Sniping is supposed to be about taking the time to line up that perfect shot. Many of the snipers are only good with that combo, and you're only making it a stressful time for someone to constantly look for an enemy to shoot, and hope you can keep that combo! The worst part, many of the sniper's reload speed is over that two seconds, so guess what?! Now we are forced to put on Primed Fast Hands so we don't lose that combo OR as Cebian stated, use Harkonar Scope.

Um...?

On 9/27/2017 at 3:10 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

1 combo count removed at a time when duration runs out instead of all of them (decay vs. cooldown).

Yeah, even Rubico doesn't lose its combo on reload (didn't you know that was already a thing?), after this. Nice. I also want to point out that a weapon that is not suited for fast paced action isn't suited for Warframe at all, so there's nothing desirable about pushing sniper rifles in that direction simply because they're called sniper rifles. They need to be desirable as more than a fetishized weapon type. They need to get the job done, with "the job" often being to kill large numbers of enemies, not "taking the time to line up that perfect shot". This is the wrong game to be attempting anything like actual sniping. That's why they increased the fire rate on all of them. Besides, most sniper rifles in Warframe are hitscan, which takes a lot of the skill and time requirements out of sniping anyway. Sniping in a game like this goes more like: move crosshairs, headshot, pick new target, repeat. And the faster you do this, the better. This is battlefield sniping, not "kill a fool from a kilometer off" sniping. You have tens of targets at any given time, and can't afford to mess around with one of them.

Oh, and Grinlok is trash, not suited for any kind of combat. With its small magazine, long reload, and slow fire rate, you would at least expect it to have good base damage and/or crit performance, but it doesn't have those, either. And now, every sniper rifle except Lanka will fire faster. Grinlok sorely needs a buff.

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Well, ok, most of the changes look nice on paper, but how far will enemies spawn? On regular tile sets they currently spawn right next to us, "procedural teleport" throwing them into the next room. The question is: what can snipers offer to favor them over other rifles?

Another question is: could you consider imbuing npcs with the same inertia our warframes suffer? Pretty please.. The lack of inertia on npcs is what makes sniper rifles useless the most, since they (npc) can change direction of their motion instantly and randomly. This was the cause of many a frustratingly missed shot for me, when the moment I press the fire button some AI magic makes the target spin around.

Edited by Bouldershoulder
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29 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

 

Um...?

Yeah, even Rubico doesn't lose its combo on reload (didn't you know that was already a thing?), after this. Nice. I also want to point out that a weapon that is not suited for fast paced action isn't suited for Warframe at all, so there's nothing desirable about pushing sniper rifles in that direction simply because they're called sniper rifles. They need to be desirable as more than a fetishized weapon type. They need to get the job done, with "the job" often being to kill large numbers of enemies, not "taking the time to line up that perfect shot". This is the wrong game to be attempting anything like actual sniping. That's why they increased the fire rate on all of them. Besides, most sniper rifles in Warframe are hitscan, which takes a lot of the skill and time requirements out of sniping anyway. Sniping in a game like this goes more like: move crosshairs, headshot, pick new target, repeat. And the faster you do this, the better. This is battlefield sniping, not "kill a fool from a kilometer off" sniping. You have tens of targets at any given time, and can't afford to mess around with one of them.

Oh, and Grinlok is trash, not suited for any kind of combat. With its small magazine, long reload, and slow fire rate, you would at least expect it to have good base damage and/or crit performance, but it doesn't have those, either. And now, every sniper rifle except Lanka will fire faster. Grinlok sorely needs a buff.

Grinlock definitely does not need a buff considering it is a weapon I can get to nearly 100% crit and status without a riven. The syndicate mod which is radiation seriously messes up enemies. It is like my go to Slova gun.

Edited by ADDgamer45
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Got Riven with Headshot challenge (Kill x enemies with headshots, undetected). Remembered problem from past I choose Grineer and problem is still here: Only direct hit into face was counted as Headshot into Challenge. So this make me nervous: X% Damage replaced with Y% Headshot Dmg

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6 minutes ago, ADDgamer45 said:

Grinlock definitely does not need a buff considering it is a weapon I can get to nearly 100% crit and status without a riven. The syndicate mod which is radiation seriously messes up enemies. It is like my go to Slova gun.

Okay, it has only 15% base crit chance, so I have some questions. After Point Strike and Deadly Sequence, where are you getting the other 217% crit chance with no riven (Argon Scope is only 135% and Critical Delay is an atrocity on an already slow weapon)? How many mods are you dedicating to crit chance? How little damage do you have to be multiplied by crit as a result? Do you have room for punch through? What status effect are you applying that isn't going to suffer from your lack of damage?

...Nah. Grinlok is trash. Nova is good. Get a Lanka if you want a hard-hitting single shot crit+status gun with Sequence. Or, y'know, keep using the trash gun, because that's fine, too. Do what you like. I'm hanging onto my own Grinlok in the vain hope that it does get a buff.

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On ‎30‎-‎9‎-‎2017 at 12:35 AM, DreamsmithJane said:

Okay, for everyone saying this isn't how snipers work, remember which game you're playing. Patiently waiting for the right opportunity to take out a high-value target doesn't jive with a game largely built around challenging swarms of enemies in open combat. It makes sense that using a "sniper rifle" here doesn't make you a sniper, but simply long-range fire support. With that in mind, the thing to do is reward you for finding chances to set up and go to work, picking targets quickly and eliminating them just as quickly.

Seriously. If you snipe properly, in this game, you're just wasting time.

In which case these changes make even less sense because they're shifting damage away from body shots and onto headshots only, forcing people to 'snipe' more.

DE needs to either go for the snipers or not, this build is a halfway thing that is going to leave everyone dissatisfied.

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38 minutes ago, Colyeses said:

In which case these changes make even less sense because they're shifting damage away from body shots and onto headshots only, forcing people to 'snipe' more.

DE needs to either go for the snipers or not, this build is a halfway thing that is going to leave everyone dissatisfied.

Indeed the shot as many as possible within this set timer is a system that would work wonders on more drm like weapons like tiberon or latron where you more often then not go for center of mass. 

If they want us to be more of a police sniper then a military sniper they should take a hard look at how those tactics are used in other games like battlefield 4 or call of duty heck DE worked on Unreal just check how snipers are used in those games or in quake live if you want examples of short range in your face sniping. 

We could even have a secondary mode added to all snipers that works like iron sights and then 3 zoom levels per sniper aka iron sights, close range 2-4x medium range 6-8x and then long range 12-20x 

I know i ran around with snipers within 100 meters on battlefield 4 and i used the correct scopes for that not 20x scopes. 

Still all this talk about snipers could just as well come down to technical limitations at the end of the day. 

When rebecca tried to zoom in on the ediola at 1500meters it did not render at all. 

So it might just be a technical limitation of the engine that has lead to a decrece in zoom levels on all snipers. 

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9 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Yeah, even Rubico doesn't lose its combo on reload (didn't you know that was already a thing?)

Losing a combo count is .5% of the bonus damage every 2 seconds. (Can't tell if it's the % or the hits themselves) Unless that actually pauses when reloading, it will be a hard time. 

 

9 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

I also want to point out that a weapon that is not suited for fast paced action isn't suited for Warframe at all, so there's nothing desirable about pushing sniper rifles in that direction simply because they're called sniper rifles.

Maybe for the current warframe, that makes 100% sense, why do you think snipers are so unpopular? But when PoE comes out, that widens the play styles tremendously! Sniping will be used as a tactic to eliminate enemies from a great distance without them even seeing you. You know, stealth. What ninjas do. What this game has been failing to accommodate for the most part other than "let's go invisible!" 

 

9 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Sniping in a game like this goes more like: move crosshairs, headshot, pick new target, repeat. And the faster you do this, the better.

Many people don't want to be rushed and stressed trying to aim and kill on a timer. Not all of us are MLG Pro that can take headshots instantly in under two seconds. But I guess us people will just have to be forced to use mods that eliminate that feeling. 

 

9 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

That's why they increased the fire rate on all of them. Besides, most sniper rifles in Warframe are hitscan, which takes a lot of the skill and time requirements out of sniping anyway.

As stated above, nor everyone has that 100% bonified, 360 no scoping talent like you. DE should be thinking of all types of play styles, not just yours XD

 

9 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

You have tens of targets at any given time, and can't afford to mess around with one of them.

What can't you afford? You're sniping from a great distance and they can't tell where you're shooting from. Unless you completely forget the concept of a sniper and just go running in, guns blazing in close quarters. 

Simple as this: play styles exist, don't be so closed minded that people like to play this game differently. It's not a difficult concept. 

Edited by FashionFrame
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This isn't a change to improve snipers. This is a change to make snipers accommodate the game.

The maximum range reduction coupled with fire-rate boosts suggest that the devs are trying to bring snipers much, much closer to semi-automatic rifles like the Sybaris, even if that is not what players are looking for in snipers.

The alternative would require more work, as it would require carving out a niche for the snipers. But then, I'd rather they leave the snipers completely untouched than that they do this. Because this is saying 'we give up', and it undermines any hope of snipers ever getting to be what I and many others would like them to be.

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8 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

 

Oh, and Grinlok is trash, not suited for any kind of combat. With its small magazine, long reload, and slow fire rate, you would at least expect it to have good base damage and/or crit performance, but it doesn't have those, either. And now, every sniper rifle except Lanka will fire faster. Grinlok sorely needs a buff.

What? have you seen the status and base crit on grinlok? that thing can support a hybrid build quite well you know, even more so with its deadly sequence augment. but i agree its fire rate is really lacking

 

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Ok I feel like they should up the timer a bit but if you are running multishot like most people, depending on how many hit you are adding more than 2 seconds per shot. And if you run harkonar scope you are adding a crazy amount of time if you even hit. The counter only drops 1 point every 2 seconds. Super excited for this with my vulkar wraith vile acceleration build.

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8 minutes ago, ADDgamer45 said:

Ok I feel like they should up the timer a bit but if you are running multishot like most people, depending on how many hit you are adding more than 2 seconds per shot. And if you run harkonar scope you are adding a crazy amount of time if you even hit. The counter only drops 1 point every 2 seconds. Super excited for this with my vulkar wraith vile acceleration build.

I can't tell though if they mean that it drops 1 of the "hit" counts, or if they actually mean the %, so .5% per 2 seconds...

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Just now, Volatice said:

Personally, I think reducing the zoom is a bad idea if this rework is mostly geared towards plains. The plains are where you can really take advantage of that zoom. Why not just add more zoom levels?

That would be a hassle to cycle through, theoretically.

In practice, there's already a divide between the 'alternate fire' button's function while zoomed in and while hip-firing, so having the alt-fire button cycle between close combat (3.5x, 6x) and sniper mode (4x, 10x) while not aiming seems to be a solution that would fix -everything-.

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1 minute ago, Colyeses said:

That would be a hassle to cycle through, theoretically.

In practice, there's already a divide between the 'alternate fire' button's function while zoomed in and while hip-firing, so having the alt-fire button cycle between close combat (3.5x, 6x) and sniper mode (4x, 10x) while not aiming seems to be a solution that would fix -everything-.

This would also be a good idea. Another, which could solve the alternate fire and zoom issue, would be to scroll up or down while aiming to increase or decrease zoom levels.

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2 hours ago, Volatice said:

Personally, I think reducing the zoom is a bad idea if this rework is mostly geared towards plains. The plains are where you can really take advantage of that zoom. Why not just add more zoom levels?

Its not just about zoom. Its about the buff from the zoom.

If you add more zoom levels what are you going to do with the buff?

If you spread it that just makes it worse all around for everything else.

If you add more buffs well.....You can feel the whiny brats asking for a nerf.

Edited by (PS4)Keiji_Haku
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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Keiji_Haku said:

Its not just about zoom. Its about the buff from the zoom.

If you add more zoom levels what are you going to do with the buff?

If you spread it that just makes it worse all around for everything else.

If you add more buffs well.....You can feel the whiny brats asking for a nerf.

Honestly, the buffs to zoom levels are utterly and completely arbitrary and nonsensical in the first place. Snipers should just get innate headshot benefits to make them the absolute kings of single target damage when used in high precision.

Setting max zoom as a requirement is just the idea of someone who really hates the people who use sniper rifles.

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It was stated multiple times in the previous pages, a 5% base critical chance on snipers would help quite a lot since crits are unreliable SPECIALLY on the rubico the which gets most of its damage from criticals(hence the high crit dmg)

:highfive:

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21 minutes ago, brawler58 said:

It was stated multiple times in the previous pages, a 5% base critical chance on snipers would help quite a lot since crits are unreliable SPECIALLY on the rubico the which gets most of its damage from criticals(hence the high crit dmg)

:highfive:

hum did you miss a 3 there? as in 35% ?

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2 hours ago, GhostLacuna said:

hum did you miss a 3 there? as in 35% ?

 

2 hours ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

Probably meant 50%

We all know there's no way in hell they'll buff them so much

I'd like it, but they'll just roll their eyes over it and do nothing. I might be wrong 

Edit: And no, I didn't miss a 3, I didn't mean 50%. I'm being realistic for once 

Y'all want them to triple their base crit chance so you abuse orange crits or..?

It isn't funny even as a joke 

:facepalm:

Edited by brawler58
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Can we PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE have a 12x + zoom option on pretty much all snipers. I really don't mind the fact you're dropping the first and 2nd levels of zooms down a notch , as it will help in corridor maps and in close range... But we need long range snipers to , well , be long range...

Especially rubico... C'mon, 6x zoom at max and only two zoom levels... Just add a third zoom level.... Please don't turn snipers into mid to close range weapons.

Edited by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra
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