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Plains of Eidolon: Sniper Review!


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Just now, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Tbh, this Sniper elite community is wired, first they screamed for Zoom reduction speaking how big QoL it will be and now when it will happen they starts to complain. I don't understand that.

The reason for that is the tilesets. Right now, before PoE the levels of zoom are too much, taking into account that most of the combat is gonna be at close quarters, so when you zoom with a sniper you are literally checking if your enemies have hair in their noses. With PoE all of that changes, now combat can be engaged from further distances, and now the actual the levels of zoom makes sense.

 PoE allowed the actual levels of zoom on snipers to be usefull, but now (specially with the Rubico) the levels of zoom seem too short. In the prime times that they have shown, the zoom doesn't really allow you to get a clear headshot. So the bonuses of the combo (which by the way, i think it should be dumped) are not gonna be consisten.

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1 hour ago, mrrobotto67 said:

The reason for that is the tilesets. Right now, before PoE the levels of zoom are too much, taking into account that most of the combat is gonna be at close quarters, so when you zoom with a sniper you are literally checking if your enemies have hair in their noses. With PoE all of that changes, now combat can be engaged from further distances, and now the actual the levels of zoom makes sense.

 PoE allowed the actual levels of zoom on snipers to be usefull, but now (specially with the Rubico) the levels of zoom seem too short. In the prime times that they have shown, the zoom doesn't really allow you to get a clear headshot. So the bonuses of the combo (which by the way, i think it should be dumped) are not gonna be consisten.

I understand that because when I sit on the rope between B and C and try to kill Enemy hacking console on A in Cerberus Interception it's still really difficult for me to use max Zoom, but u, as a Snipers "De Facto" got what u asked for, it have nothing to do with PoE, so a little bit of self criticism will not harm u here. 

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Just now, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I understand that because when I sit on the rope between B and C and try to kill Enemy hacking console on A in Cerberus Interception it's still really difficult for me to use max Zoom, but u, as a Snipers "De Facto" got what u asked for, it have nothing to do with PoE, so a little bit of self criticism will not harm u here. 

Sir, i never claimed to be a Sniper "De Facto" (whatever that means), and don't try to pull that "it have nothing to do with PoE", people who like snipers, where excited for this update in part because it seemed like a low key sniper buff, because now that there is going to be an open field, zoom like we have now is nice.

When people were asking for zoom to be lowered, they didn't know we where going to have this update to begin with, if you don't believe me, try to see how many posts have been made about lowering zoom levels on snipers since PoE got shown to us as an open world.

And i understand the point of "you are getting what you asked, now you are complaining" because at first i was looking at zoom and saying "hell yeah" but if you see some of the prime time plus the data that has been provided by players on this forum, THEN i saw a more clear picture and then i know why reducing zoom for this update is not a very smart move.

Also, if you see people using snipers, they don't give a flying F-bomb about a combo, they put the bullet in an enemy and run away on to the next target without aiming.

Trust me, if Open World wasn't a thing, nobody would complain, but since it is, the complain is there.

BTW to me snipers should have their own mod sets, not depend on regular rifle mods. For example, shotguns have point blank, sidearms have hornet strike .. Snipers should have their own base damage mod, multishot mod etc... since they are another type of weapons. 

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1 hour ago, mrrobotto67 said:

Sir, i never claimed to be a Sniper "De Facto" (whatever that means), and don't try to pull that "it have nothing to do with PoE", people who like snipers, where excited for this update in part because it seemed like a low key sniper buff, because now that there is going to be an open field, zoom like we have now is nice.

When people were asking for zoom to be lowered, they didn't know we where going to have this update to begin with, if you don't believe me, try to see how many posts have been made about lowering zoom levels on snipers since PoE got shown to us as an open world.

And i understand the point of "you are getting what you asked, now you are complaining" because at first i was looking at zoom and saying "hell yeah" but if you see some of the prime time plus the data that has been provided by players on this forum, THEN i saw a more clear picture and then i know why reducing zoom for this update is not a very smart move.

Also, if you see people using snipers, they don't give a flying F-bomb about a combo, they put the bullet in an enemy and run away on to the next target without aiming.

Trust me, if Open World wasn't a thing, nobody would complain, but since it is, the complain is there.

BTW to me snipers should have their own mod sets, not depend on regular rifle mods. For example, shotguns have point blank, sidearms have hornet strike .. Snipers should have their own base damage mod, multishot mod etc... since they are another type of weapons. 

For me, in General, tbh, bad move is to have two different game plays, Fast shooter against hordes of enemies  x  Open world wandering, in one game and Snipers are exactly on the border, because if they fits to 1 gameplay they will not fit to another, so I will be glad when players will start to find the way how to make Snipers more valuable for PoE instead of complaining because it's never ending.

Edit: Snipers are rifles, same mechanics, different ammo, Scope

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4 hours ago, mrrobotto67 said:

Trust me, if Open World wasn't a thing, nobody would complain, but since it is, the complain is there.

I would complain. Big time. People who are complaining about zoom levels in normal maps shouldnt be using snipers in the first place. You dont have to be MAX zoom everywhere you go.... But when I want to cover half the map on a mission like cerberus.... I want to be able to switch between 3x, 7x, and 12x..... because thats versatility.

The arguments for zoom reductions are baseless and stem from a lack of effort or logic.  I really hope DE doesnt go through with this based on these senseless arguments.

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14 hours ago, Faulcun said:

You dont have to be MAX zoom everywhere you go....

And this is why people hate the bonuses dependent on zoom level. No, you don't have to be, except if your weapon isn't capable of OHKOing without max zoom.

Overall, snipers were handled completely wrong, and DE is unfortunately not realising that forcing scopes and rapidfire (Who thought of a sniper mechanism revolving around firing as quick as possible anyway?) are just hooks and eyes being attached to weapons that already underperform.

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10 hours ago, Colyeses said:

And this is why people hate the bonuses dependent on zoom level. No, you don't have to be, except if your weapon isn't capable of OHKOing without max zoom.

Overall, snipers were handled completely wrong, and DE is unfortunately not realising that forcing scopes and rapidfire (Who thought of a sniper mechanism revolving around firing as quick as possible anyway?) are just hooks and eyes being attached to weapons that already underperform.

Then spend more time and forma on your weapons because my snipetron vandal and vulkar wraith will OHK on body shot lvl 50 heavy gunners, with no riven mod, on base zoom.... which im pretty sure both vectis can do as well, and we all know a lanka can. That covers 5 different rifles (more than half) and every single normal mission on every planet in the solar map....  which im pretty sure every rifle is capable of similar performance.

They will also OHK a heavy gunner up to level 70 on headshot, and lancers beyond lvl 100 (I stopped testing at 100). And this is all on SHOT ONE. Follow up shots further guarantee a kill on the first hit when moving from target to target. On BASE ZOOM.

I am so sick and tired of the false information perpetuated by people who have not even touched all the rifles in the first place, let alone spent any real time with them, then push for changes for the things they are providing false information for.

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8 hours ago, Faulcun said:

Then spend more time and forma on your weapons because my snipetron vandal and vulkar wraith will OHK on body shot lvl 50 heavy gunners, with no riven mod, on base zoom.... which im pretty sure both vectis can do as well, and we all know a lanka can. That covers 5 different rifles (more than half) and every single normal mission on every planet in the solar map....  which im pretty sure every rifle is capable of similar performance.

They will also OHK a heavy gunner up to level 70 on headshot, and lancers beyond lvl 100 (I stopped testing at 100). And this is all on SHOT ONE. Follow up shots further guarantee a kill on the first hit when moving from target to target. On BASE ZOOM.

I am so sick and tired of the false information perpetuated by people who have not even touched all the rifles in the first place, let alone spent any real time with them, then push for changes for the things they are providing false information for.

All well and good, but five forma Rubico with Riven doesn't suffice for consistent OHKOs at level 100. At any zoom level.

Besides, why go for a riven and five formas and massive zoom scale and combo dependent damage when you can also just snag an Arca Plasmor and do -just as much damage- dragging it up to level 30 once.

And that thing is AoE.

Seriously, buffing snipers would not be the end of the world.

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6 hours ago, Tolmanji said:

Maybe release  Primed Chamber  to the public since is so exclusive, it would really help snipers overall.

I have one and it doesn't help as much as you might think. It's basically become obsolete since the introduction of Rivens. Nothing more than a collectors item that's not really viable on anything other than the Vectis models anymore.

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9 hours ago, Colyeses said:

All well and good, but five forma Rubico with Riven doesn't suffice for consistent OHKOs at level 100. At any zoom level.

Besides, why go for a riven and five formas and massive zoom scale and combo dependent damage when you can also just snag an Arca Plasmor and do -just as much damage- dragging it up to level 30 once.

And that thing is AoE.

Seriously, buffing snipers would not be the end of the world.

But it CAN at level 50, which covers EVERY mission in the ENTIRE SOLAR MAP.

But you are making the argument for a weapon to scale based on sortie level content or higher....

And then you want to go and compare it to a noobcannon like the arca plasmor... Are you suggesting we turn precision based weapons like snipers into something like that?

I have no problem with buffing snipers.... I DO have a problem with ridiculous arguments to promote changes based on bad/false information that influences DE to make STUPID changes like zoom levels because little Johnny cant aim and panics in close spaces...

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13 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

But it CAN at level 50, which covers EVERY mission in the ENTIRE SOLAR MAP.

But you are making the argument for a weapon to scale based on sortie level content or higher....

And then you want to go and compare it to a noobcannon like the arca plasmor... Are you suggesting we turn precision based weapons like snipers into something like that?

I have no problem with buffing snipers.... I DO have a problem with ridiculous arguments to promote changes based on bad/false information that influences DE to make STUPID changes like zoom levels because little Johnny cant aim and panics in close spaces...

So what exactly is the problem here?

We buff the single target damage of snipers, cut off the benefits to being zoomed in, leave zoom at the levels pre-PoE, and maybe clip the combo system too, everyone happy, no?

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10 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

But it CAN at level 50, which covers EVERY mission in the ENTIRE SOLAR MAP.

But you are making the argument for a weapon to scale based on sortie level content or higher....

And then you want to go and compare it to a noobcannon like the arca plasmor... Are you suggesting we turn precision based weapons like snipers into something like that?

I have no problem with buffing snipers.... I DO have a problem with ridiculous arguments to promote changes based on bad/false information that influences DE to make STUPID changes like zoom levels because little Johnny cant aim and panics in close spaces...

No weapon or ability should ever be balanced around Sortie-level content. Enemies that high in terms of damage resistance are supposed to make players think "Hrmmm...maybe I should leave now...". Anything that's capable of making level 80+ enemies "easy" to deal with or capable of trivializing almost all sortie-level content should be considered overpowered and/or broken.

That said, I feel the proposed nerfs to zoom levels are going to make long range headshots difficult on PoE and other hinted at "open world" locales on the star chart. Arguably, Sniper Rifles don't have much of a place on regular maps...that's a fair and legitimate point due to the mostly restricted maps we find ourselves in and there very few areas that really REQUIRE weapons with the reach and zoom levels of sniper rifles. That will change with PoE - an environment like that will really make sniper weapons shine and confer an advantage to players.

The sad thing is that some devs don't seem to really get how sniper rifles and snipers work.

A sniper takes their time to make sure their shot lands right where they need it to go, yet DE insists on stuffing in "bonuses" that rely on quick shooting. You can have precision, consistent accuracy or high rate of fire...not both.

A sniper rifle has innately high accuracy, regardless of what kind of optics are fitted to it, yet DE insists that we should penalized with massive scatter for firing without a scope.

We should be rewarded for patient shooting, with say increased crit chance and accuracy the longer the target stays in the crosshairs, instead of giving us timer-based damage bonuses. Zoom levels should have 3 levels to allow for usability on any map with an open area, with the highest level allowing for a target's head at 600m to be clearly distinguished. Don't penalize us for not using our scopes. Reduce damage fall-off past optimal range to -25% instead of -50%.

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24 minutes ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

It's just a base stat for being zoomed in. Multishot doesn't affect it.

So that means, when I will use Sniper with Dmg conversion and make a Headshot in distance with 50% Falloff which will be negate with Headshot multiplier (x2 on Grineer) I will still be deal more Dmg then now?

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24 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

So that means, when I will use Sniper with Dmg conversion and make a Headshot in distance with 50% Falloff which will be negate with Headshot multiplier (x2 on Grineer) I will still be deal more Dmg then now?

The multishot will be affected by the multiplier, but not the other way around.

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59 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

So that means, when I will use Sniper with Dmg conversion and make a Headshot in distance with 50% Falloff which will be negate with Headshot multiplier (x2 on Grineer) I will still be deal more Dmg then now?

If they both hit.

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1 hour ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

The multishot will be affected by the multiplier, but not the other way around.

 

35 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

If they both hit.

I know it's hard to understand me , so I try to simplify it: 

Vectis prime: No Multishot

2nd Zoom +55% Headshot Dmg +55% Damage thanks to Headshot Multiplier (x2 on Grineer) after -50% thanks to Falloff I will still get +60% Dmg

Rubico: No multishot

No Zoom bonus only +50% thanks to Headshot and -50% Falloff, so no bonus

Is this correct? 

Sorry for bad English and bad math

Edit: Bad math: Headshot is probably overall and +100%, so with Vectis is +105% and with Rubico is +50%

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Oh, sorry, I get it now. Your headshot math isn't correct. Base headshot damage is +100%, Vectis gives you an additional +55% on top of that for a total of +155%. You're not going to get the +55% damage twice (your way, it would end up being +210%).

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21 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

Oh, sorry, I get it now. Your headshot math isn't correct. Base headshot damage is +100%, Vectis gives you an additional +55% on top of that for a total of +155%. You're not going to get the +55% damage twice (your way, it would end up being +210%).

Many thanks, sometimes I choose the hardest way while it so simple.  So Vulkar series will be probably best option when u will go for Headshots over 600m?  

Edit: If we, of course, speak about Dmg only.

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On 10/7/2017 at 11:55 AM, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I understand that because when I sit on the rope between B and C and try to kill Enemy hacking console on A in Cerberus Interception it's still really difficult for me to use max Zoom, but u, as a Snipers "De Facto" got what u asked for, it have nothing to do with PoE, so a little bit of self criticism will not harm u here. 

Especially keeping in mind there will still be same game play everywhere but PoE.

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16 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Many thanks, sometimes I choose the hardest way while it so simple.  So Vulkar series will be probably best option when u will go for Headshots over 600m?  

Edit: If we, of course, speak about Dmg only.

Rubico all the way, hope rubico prime comes with zephyr!

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17 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

So Vulkar series will be probably best option when u will go for Headshots over 600m?

Vulkar Wraith will be the best option period, for single-shot damage and probably for combo point building. Assuming you have the augment. Other snipers will be not too far behind; standard Vulkar will be... maybe a little better than other options, hard to say.

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