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[DE]Rebecca

Plains of Eidolon: Sniper Review!

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Just now, Sannidor said:

One more year before we get universal vacuum on frames?  

Sway removal is objectively good for gameplay.

Univac is only subjectively good, and it's good DE doesn't give you the entire arm after you took their finger.

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1 minute ago, ZiG.y said:

Can you explain this?

With regular vectis it didn't automatically try to reload until it would potentially be able to fire again, this meant you had to slam reload manually after firing to keep up maximum potential fire rate. The auto reload should happen instantly now, its a good thing.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Reticle sway removed from all zoom levels!

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Reticle sway removed from all zoom levels

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Reticle sway removed from all zoom levels!

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Reticle sway removed from all zoom levels!

 

 

 

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

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Seems good overall, though I hope that you'll reconsider the missed shots with multishot aspect.  Or even the missed shots aspect.  I don't want to be punished for finishing off an enemy with 1 shot while the multishot sails past, negating the benefit of that successful shot. 

Part of why people like Arca Scisco so much is that it doesn't lose combo with missed shots, but it gains additional combo with multishot.  Applying this aspect to Snipers could help more players get behind them, and would help us sniper-lovers enjoy using them even more.

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1 minute ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

Unit specialization, if it's unfit for it don't use it for it, that's how the ecology of Warframe has always been. There shouldn't be a point to hinder the aspects of gameplay where it would thrive just for someone complaining about a long-range scope in close-quarters-combat, that's highly illogical and it really disappoints me as a long-time sniper user.

 

I don't personally care one way or another where the zoom levels are. I don't and probably won't use snipers much going forward. My original statement was a general one, many players in the community have wanted a reduction in the zoom levels for the rest of the game play since there have been different levels. It was only up until now, when we have a good use for higher zoom levels were players content with where they were(obviously this doesn't include everyone.) 

I don't think this will be the final pass at zoom and I hope it's not. 6x in as wide of a space as we're getting does seem too restrictive, especially with the nice increase to headshot damage. I guess players can just use Eagle Eye until the levels are at a better place again.

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Lanka needs faster projectile speed, or better make it hitscan, or its unusable on large distance - most mobs move around all the time

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44 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

No removal of hip-fire accuracy penalty? These changes will be great for the plains, but without being able to consistently hip-fire Snipers are still going to be a pain pretty much everywhere else. 

Use latron

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9 minutes ago, (PS4)jFresh215 said:

 

I don't personally care one way or another where the zoom levels are. I don't and probably won't use snipers much going forward. My original statement was a general one, many players in the community have wanted a reduction in the zoom levels for the rest of the game play since there have been different levels. It was only up until now, when we have a good use for higher zoom levels were players content with where they were(obviously this doesn't include everyone.) 

I don't think this will be the final pass at zoom and I hope it's not. 6x in as wide of a space as we're getting does seem too restrictive, especially with the nice increase to headshot damage. I guess players can just use Eagle Eye until the levels are at a better place again.

Yes, but at the sacrifice of potential damage. It'd be nice to just slide the scroll wheel for variable zoom levels, with workarounds for controllers/consoles. The high zoom is what set snipers apart from marksman rifles (that goes for any shooter), and since it seems like the thought process is "people have been asking for zoom reduction. well, we're adding a 9km^2 map, let's make the effective ranges for the long distance weapons just 100m more than standard weapons, and let's also halve the zoom that will be good for long distance shots" effectively making the snipers into glorified marksman rifles.

400m Falloff threshold is a significant decrease from 600m, and I'm extremely disappointed in it. They had such a good thing going with potential sniper reworks but seeing the changes now, I prefer them as they are with zoom, sway, and all.

Edited by DarkDullahan-Prime
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Looks great. Will have to wait and see how they feel but these changes sound reasonable. The added damage on headshots across the board is something unique that snipers needed to differentiate themselves from other weapon classes.

Edited by Finedaible
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Scope sway going into the same trash can stamina went to? Good. Shame about combo duration nerfs across the board. You guys really want to force that Harkonar Scope down on us.

That Lanka charge rate nerf makes me want to vomit. No plans for changing unscoped accuracy either? Maybe they'll see some usage on the Plains but they'll just remain awkward and rarely used for the rest of the tilesets in game.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Monolake said:

Lanka needs faster projectile speed, or better make it hitscan, or its unusable on large distance - most mobs move around all the time

That moment when you realize real bullets have flight speed and ppl have shot other ppl at over 1.5 miles away + at those distances they even have to take into account how much the earth is going to rotate durring that time of flight which is about 4-6 seconds 😱 and that's not even taking into account humidity, wind drift, spin drift, barometric pressure, elevation to target all things needed to know to make long shots. Gotta git gud and just compensate for enemy movement 

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I like seeing the changes listed here, though I'd like to throw my hat in with the people saying we want the hip-fire inaccuracy removed as well.  We already lose out on the scoped damage bonus hip-firing, and it's rather frustrating missing enemies that are even 5 meters in front of you entirely. 

I'd also be fine with hip-fire inaccuracy being reduced enough that we could reliably hit something, say, 15 meters out.

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3 minutes ago, tsubasakuroi said:

That Lanka charge rate nerf makes me want to vomit.

how is going from 1.5 to 1 second a nerf? it means that it charges FASTER.

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Rubico sorely needs a reload or magazine capacity buff. That or base crit chance upped by 5% (as do all snipers imo) 

snipers in general were ok save the mad zoom and reload times. You fixed the reload and sway, (and the punch through is amazing) 

-signed, totally not baised rubico main

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Just now, Kalvorax said:

how is going from 1.5 to 1 second a nerf? it means that it charges FASTER.

If it's really that, then I misread/misunderstood

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Please please PLEASE. Just remove hip fire inaccuracy. Our Warframes can carry around massive guns with ease while shooting across maps, and I'd bet they have pretty well controlled muscles.

 

More importantly, from a gameplay perspective, forced inaccuracy has *no* place in a game like warframe. I'd go as far as to say snipers having it is my least favorite thing in the entire game. When the original sniper rework came it changed them from my favorite weapon type to least favorite. Please.

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5 minutes ago, BrazilianJoe said:

What about the "sniper pistols" - like Lex and Arca Scisco? will they have increased ranges before falloff?

 

Considering the lex isn't anything close to a sniper pistol (Lato series has higher accuracy and easy of headshots it feels), nothing for that. Arca Scisco and Knell are the only relevant pistols in this discussion.

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These are really good changes overall, altough the main problems for snipers (for me at least) are lack of consistency due to low firerate with a not so high crit chance, and really long reload speeds for most sniper rifles. Is there any chance that this is gonna be looked at?

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I like these changes.

But can you reduce magazine size on Vectis Prime to 1 round, please?

Edited by Gendalph
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Right, lets break this down a little, clear things up.

 

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno!

We semi-recently talked about weapon fall-off here ( https://forums.warframe.com/topic/846609-plains-of-eidolon-distances-weapons/?page=1 ) and we indicated the Sniper school of weapons would be getting a pass.

Here we have information for you on what the pass looks like! Long range, here we come! The necessary preface here - this is a work in progress list. Everything you read here could change up until the last minute, but this at least provides intent. The weapon team has been working like crazy - so let's see what they've been up to:

General Sniper Changes:
 

  • Reticle sway removed from all zoom levels!    

This is a very nice buff, just straight up QoL

  • 1 meter punch through added to all snipers without any to start with (snipers with innate punch through unchanged).

Good help for crowds, saves a slot for shred. very nice.

  • 1 combo count removed at a time when duration runs out instead of all of them (decay vs. cooldown).

Very, very nice buff.

  • 1 combo count removed on miss instead of all of them

Great for when your tagets gets killed by some AoE power, again very nice.

  • Additional bullets from multishot will each count as their own hits and misses in the combo counter

We already gain 2 combo from multishot hits, so losing 2 combo on multishot misses is completely fair.

Also we do gain 2 combo even if the first bullet kills the target, as multishot hits at the same time.

  • Combo duration reduced to 2 seconds for all snipers apart from Lanka which is reduced to 6

Appears a nerf, but given thats a single stack lost every 2 seconds, very nice again.

  • Damage fall off begins at 400 meters and ends at 600 meters with damage reduced to 50% past 600 meters.

Given likely engagement ranges this is fair, also other weapons fall off by 300m.

 

Specific Sniper Weapon Changes:

 

 

Vectis

 

  • First level zoom +10% Damage replaced with +30% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom 15% Damage replaced with +50% Head Shot Damage

Headshot promotion, very nice,

Will gain 1m punchthrough.

2 shot base combo.

1 combo lost after 2 sec, used to be all combo lost after 4 sec.

misses only remove 1 + multishot combo.

no scope sway.:heart:

 

Vectis Prime

 

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2.67

Appears to be going for a rapid double-tap action.

  • First level zoom +15% Damage replaced with +35% Head Shot Damage

  • First level zoom reduced from 4x to 3.5x

Looks like help for indoor combat, neutral on this change.

  • Second level zoom 20% Damage replaced with +55% Head Shot Damage

Headshot promotion, nice.

  • Second level zoom reduced from 10x to 6x

limiting long range combat, slightly dislike this change, but given the removal of sway, still an increase in sniping capability.

  • Next round is chambered immediately after firing instead of waiting for fire rate to cycle

Makes reload canceling after first shot viable like single vectis, but combined with the fire rate increase, why would you want to when you can double tap?

Combo reset changed from loss of all at 3.0s, to loss of 1 at 2.0s.   :heart:

No scope sway. :heart:

Gained 1m punchthrough.

 

Snipetron

Are we looking at a return?

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2

More DMR style feel, increased dps.

  • First level zoom +10% Damage replaced with +30% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom 15% Damage replaced with +50% Head Shot Damage

Headshot promotion, again nice.

Combo reset changed from loss of all at 3.0s, to loss of 1 at 2.0s.   :heart:

No scope sway. :heart:

 

Snipetron Vandal

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2

Again, likely to feel more like a marksmans rifle.

  • First level zoom +10% Damage replaced with +30% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom 15% Damage replaced with +50% Head Shot Damage

Headshot promotion :heart:

Combo reset changed from loss of all at 3.0s, to loss of 1 at 2.0s.   :heart:

No scope sway. :heart:

 

Rubico

 

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2.67

Looking like very high burst dps with long reload. not bad at all.

  • First level zoom reduced from 5x to 3.5x

  • Second level zoom reduced from 12x to 6x

Dislike these changes, but the removal of sway will compensate. Could it be changed to 4x and 8x maybe?

Combo reset changed from loss of all at 2.0s, to loss of 1 at 2.0s.   :heart:   Very interesting buff.

No scope sway. :heart:

Gained 1m punchthrough.

 

Vulkar

 

  • First level zoom +15% Damage replaced with +35% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom 15% Damage replaced with +55% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom reduced from 6x to 4x

  • Third level zoom 20% Damage replaced with +70% Head Shot Damage

  • Third level zoom reduced from 12x to 8x

headshot promotion and zoom reduction, all acceptable.

No scope sway and gain of 1m punchthrough.

Combo reset changed from loss of all at 5.0s, to loss of 1 at 2.0s. Still a net gain.

 

Vulkar Wraith

 

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2

  • First level zoom +15% Damage replaced with +35% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom 15% Damage replaced with +55% Head Shot Damage

  • Second level zoom reduced from 6x to 4x

  • Third level zoom 20% Damage replaced with +70% Head Shot Damage

  • Third level zoom reduced from 12x to 8x

Headshot promotion, very nice.

Zoom reduction, acceptable.

No scope sway and gain of 1m punchthrough. :heart:

Combo reset changed from loss of all at 5.0s, to loss of 1 at 2.0s. Still a net gain.

 

Lanka

 

  • Charge rate decreased from 1.5 to 1

if this is charge time its faster, but currently this currently reads as a slower fire rate?..

  • Second level zoom reduced from 7x to 5x

  • Third level zoom reduced from 12x to 8x

Better zoom than others, looks like compensation for travel time.

Combo reset changed from loss of all at 10.0s to loss of 1 at 6.0s.

Scope sway removed, nice.


So there you have it for now - the Update notes will contain the final details, and if you have comments or discussion points please use this thread!

Overall hipfire accuracy unchanged. This is fine as snipers are already crossing into DMR territory with reduced zoom and boosted fire rate.

Combo changes are fine and a net buff, in some cases a very strong one.

Zoom reductions are iffy, but made up for by scope sway reduction.

Scope sway reduction is a godsend.

Added punchthrough is both nice QoL and a dps boost, very nice.

Increased fire rate feels a bit strange but should be fine.

Vectis prime changes are very good.

Lanka fire rate change needs to be confirmed if its a gain or loss, it reads as a loss.

Headshot promotion is very nice.

People with -zoom rivens are likely to have trouble on PoE, but be even better indoors.

 

 

Overall, i would suggest adding 5% critical chance to all snipers, and boosting Rubico zoom to 4x / 8x.

Chnaging falloff to start at 500m rather than 400m would be nice, still with it ending at 600m (50%)

I oppose making hipfire accurate.

 

Thanks for the work, regardless of if any of this changes, i will be having fun sniping out in the plains.

Edited by Elvangreen
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2 minutes ago, Gendalph said:

I like these changes.

But can you reduce magazine size on Vectis Prime to 1 round, please?

No. And yes, I'm considering Primed Chamber into this factor.

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