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Plains of Eidolon: Sniper Review!


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3 minutes ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

DE: Makes largest open area we've ever seen in the game.

Also DE : Nerfs zoom levels of snipers. 

My thoughts exactly 

*congruence*

*logic*

I don't deny they could use some tweaking - the rubico's could very well use a reduction. But the Lanka? No. 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Rubico

 

  • Fire rate increased from 1.5 to 2.67

  • First level zoom reduced from 5x to 3.5x

  • Second level zoom reduced from 12x to 6xments or discussion points please use this thread!

Biggest problem os the Rubico isnt its Fire Rate, is its Reload Speed. :/

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I like the changess, BUT, there is an issue with snipers in this game and is how unreliable they are at killing. (unless is a gas-electricity lanka against corpus or you get a very good riven). The snipers are supposed to be efficient at killing enemies, yet, half of the time they don't accomplish that goal.

In my opinion (and it is only that), i would actually like that snipers had their own mods. For example, rifles have serration, split chamber, shred ... Shotguns have Primed/Point Blank, Primed Ravage, Scattering Inferno ... Snipers should have their own class of mods, being different type of weapons. (same with bows, hand cannons, explosive weapons...)

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Charge rate...? Lowering charge 'rate' would mean a weapon takes longer to charge. Is this supposed to mean charge 'time'?

I guess I'll have to see how the zoom rates feel on the plains, but given how excessive they are for the entire rest of the game, and how comfortable long-range sniping has been to me in many other games with moderate zooms, I'm not expecting this to be a problem. Not with the awful sway going away.

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the changes sound great so far

- innate punch through was something the sniper class really needed to stand out and also help out with freeing up a slot for our builds.
- extra headshot dmg is a really great idea as it rewards skill.


But there are still a lot of problems.

- DE please consider making all the snipers more reliable. give them a higher crit chance of at least 35% base crit (87.5% with basic crit mods) so they can do more consistent damage. it makes no sense for a precision weapon whose every shot counts to just not do dmg at all because RNGesus decided "NO." and its even worse when RNG decides to not let you crit at all 3 shots in a row. its really ruins sniping in this game.

- what about more accurate hipfiring? it wont make our slow firing guns with small magazines become anything OP. remember the lex prime is pretty much plays like a sniper and it has accurate hipfire. this is quite an important issue considering the map sizes that most of the game plays in. it also requires skill to hit enemies with single shot weapons. if anything it rewards skill.

- the 2 second combo counter makes no sense for a weapon that requires timing and patience. please increase it to something that allows proper sniper play

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Everything you read here could change up until the last minute, but this at least provides intent

Please don't change anything about this, it's beautiful. Especially don't change the new combo mechanics or the new punch through, please. Those are desperately needed.

 

Quote
  • 1 combo count removed on miss instead of all of them (additional attacks from multishot also count as misses)

What happens if you kill a target with multishot? We don't gain a 'hit' for the killing shot then 'miss' one for the multishot hit which struck a dead body? 

Those SHOULD be simultaneous, so two hits, but there are still some issues in the game where enemies (especially Oxium Ospreys) will die in an alerted state because they were shot with a multishot weapon.

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This looks amazing! Please consider removing the hipfire accuracy penalty, also! Because of the way hitscan works, sometimes you can miss targets that you're practically bumping hitboxes with. It would make snipers really great to use in all areas of the game.

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32 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Not a fan of zoom level changes. They were fine as-is, and if people wanted customization you could've added mods to change them. Just pulling this one out of my &#! here, what about  a sniper-only mod that gives -50% zoom, +100% magazine size? Sniper → DMR, presto! Also, no changes to the hipfire (in)accuracy or an unscoped zoom level?

On the Rubico specifically, why nearly double the fire rate when it's got a 5 round magazine and a 3 second reload? You can dump the mag in 1.87 seconds but then have to spend almost double that reloading? C'mon, wasn't the Cycron a good enough example of why that's a dumb idea? The fire rate on the Rubico, and all snipers really, is fine as it is at 1.5/sec. The problem across the board is the gigantic reload which has been untouched by these changes.

As someone that actually uses a sniper and actually really likes it, you're fixing the wrong things.

Couldn't have said it any better, kudos!

31 minutes ago, Dragon_Of_Dissent said:

For snipers it would be REALLY cool if you could just choose your own scopes for how you plan on playing.
Like an acog for cqc and a 12x for plains (make them something you craft or find if you want)

Also the combo duration drop to 2 seconds for most snipers seems like it will suck but we'll really know once PoE comes out and we get to test it.

This is probably the best comment I've seen on the topic of the sniper zoom.

7 minutes ago, mrrobotto67 said:

I like the changess, BUT, there is an issue with snipers in this game and is how unreliable they are at killing. (unless is a gas-electricity lanka against corpus or you get a very good riven). The snipers are supposed to be efficient at killing enemies, yet, half of the time they don't accomplish that goal.

In my opinion (and it is only that), i would actually like that snipers had their own mods. For example, rifles have serration, split chamber, shred ... Shotguns have Primed/Point Blank, Primed Ravage, Scattering Inferno ... Snipers should have their own class of mods, being different type of weapons. (same with bows, hand cannons, explosive weapons...)

Speak for yourself on the sniper's not being able to kill, I can take out high levels no problem with a single Vulkar shot.

But I do love the idea of Snipers becoming their entirely own class, just like shotguns, as this would also allow for higher stat crit mods to compensate. I've voiced that opinion before. 

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1 minute ago, EchoesOfRain said:

Wish they'd remove the combo mechanic and just increase the crit chance now. Snipers meant to be killing things in as few shots as possible, they shouldn't have to worry about a combo mechanic to build up and maintain. 

"...build up and maintain" and also waste ammo in the process. :awkward:

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9 minutes ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

Speak for yourself on the sniper's not being able to kill, I can take out high levels no problem with a single Vulkar shot.

He is talking about crit chance and reliability of snipers. with basic crit mods u only reach 62.5% crit chance, a far cry from the reliability of 100%. sniping currently relies too much on RNG. a basic sniper build with no special mods should allow it to do reliable crits for the sake of what sniping is

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No more reticle sway? Bullcrap, that's part of why they're harder to use and actually shows some skill. Especially with PoE having massive landscape to shoot across, making shots is a challenge. Now it's a joke....

 

Changing aiming to be static while increasing massive headshot bonuses almost makes them too boring to use now. Hopefully you guys rethink the sway....everything else looks good though...

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I don't really get some of the changes either...

Don't get me wrong, some are good ,like the innate punch through ,faster fire rate and no aiming sway... But the rest of the changes are weird.

Biggest offender is probably the zoom reduction... Makes zero sense with plains coming very soon. The whole niche of snipers is long range killing, and these guns have a 400 meters accuracy now... The least you can do is match it with a zoom that can actually hit stuff at 400+ meters. I've been running simulacrum all week, going to the small floating platforms outside of the main map area by bullet jumping and trying to snipe enemies at approximatively 200 M away and guess what, the existing zoom was already kinda inadequate to hit some of these targets at 200m... I would suggest keeping the zoom level changes you proposed, but adding a new zoom level that's even stronger, for truly precise long-range aiming... That way for regular missions, people can mostly use the lowest zooms levels, but when in the plains and at very high distances, the have at least a very long range setting that can oneshot from far away.

Not sure I'm a big fan of the decision to move from flat dmg increase to dmg on headshot. Granted, it's a cool mechanic, but in a game with fast enemies with erratic AI , and with the smaller zoom levels, seems it'll be harder to pull off headshots, meaning overall you'll deal less dmg per shot. I'll take a flat % dmg increase over a "dmg only on headshots" buff.

Finally, the combo counter stuff seems wierd to me on a precision, single target weapon... Goes carefully picking your targets and aiming for headshot. Wish we would get a flat increase on crit chance for most snipers instead, so that orange and red crits are attainable instead of barely scrapping the 100% crit on most snipers.

But honestly, the biggest offender is the -zoom levels, the rest I can definitively live with... But if you nerf the zoom level ,at the very least add a very zoomed in preset on all weapons... Sure it will be slightly longer to go through all zoom levels, but it's worth it imho.

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Oh yes.... The potential for snipers in Eidolon. The stern look of my Baro glyph should say that I am very pleased.

Except with some of the changes. No sway doesn't make much sense but I do like that they'll be more usable.

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27 minutes ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

Speak for yourself on the sniper's not being able to kill, I can take out high levels no problem with a single Vulkar shot.

What is "high level," what enemy type, and what frame? Alerted or un-alerted? Armored or Unarmored?

I must know, as I couldn't make a dent in a level 150 corrupted bombard with the Vulkar Wraith.

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I like most of the change I see here, even the decreased zoom as well, I only use the first zoom level 90% of the time because of the extreme zoom we have right now, now I may consider using second zoom, but like some people mention, the zoom is not enough for PoE, maybe buff the eagle eye or make a new mod for it.

but I'm hoping for a buff to the long reload sniper like Rubico and Vulkar for the new combo system, because it will suffer the guarantee loss of combo counter and only has less than 1 second window to prevent losing it the second time when reload, it's even possible a guarantee loss 2 combo counter without manually reload because of the fire rate.

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I see complaints from a few individuals, about the Combo timer, which was reduced to 2 seconds except for the select weapons. I know personally I'll use the Vectis Prime, which won't be affected as much, but this isn't final first of all, and second this only applies to 1 combo multiplier stack, meaning on those 3 second reloading Rifles you'll only lose 1 combo Multiplier if you hit your shots in time. So really it is not all bad but however I do think that they should increase the combo timer for those rifles still. Just keep that in perspective.

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Does Head Shot also mean Weak Point? As not all enemies weak points are Head shaped. For example the Ancients have increased damage on their limbs. Ruk doesn't have a vulnerable head. The Juggernaut's face is highly Damage Reduction.

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  • They need more crit across the board. It feels very wrong that snipers have just (among crit weapons) just mediocre crit.  
  • They need to fix ghost shots (I frequently point blank enemies and zero damage - several times a mission - like the bullet(s) just didn't come out of the barrel.
  • The combo counter mechanic seems - off.  Snipers should do high, consistent damage and reward consistency and precision - not snap shotting trying to keep some combo counter going.  And the whole multishot resets (or loses 1) stack -
    • so if you HIT a target you were aiming at, and kill it with the first - what happens to your combo counter when that second projectile misses? You get one for the hit and lose one for the miss net zero? 
    • If you HIT a target, dont kill it, but the multishot bullet wanders off to the side (the lanka can get some spread even on the indoor maps) - what happens to your stacks? You get one for the hit and lose one for the miss net zero?
    • If you miss a target with multishot, you lose TWO stacks?
    • If you hit a target with BOTH multishot do you GET two stacks?
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