Why most people that start playing Warframe leave the next day.

[(XBOX)Spaztic Magic]

14 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Yeah and it's called crp design.

Considering that to this day even veteran players at times not sure does ability x do y or not because DE didn't bother to tell anything. I still remember all the arguing about if Frost's snowglobe stacks or not or if desecrate gives more credits. It's simply laziness and the lack of transparency.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I feel it's rather ingenious and I enjoy it--even if it isn't by design. Frustration happens, sure, but rather than letting my frustration make me rage-quit I simply look at it as a challenge to learn more somehow.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

1 hour ago, peger said:

Because today's players are too stupid (yes i said it, you can now lynch me) and expect the game will lead them by hand.

Bravo  someone said it! Now I don't have to use colorful language. Lol

[-Temp0-]

26 minutes ago, Duduminador said:

Slide, bullet jump, double jump, air roll, hold air glide and then air slide.

The reason why there is no tutorial explaining how to do the combo is because it's an exploit. Everybody exploits the game. It's not something that should have carried on. But the devs have to pander to the nobodies who think this is some sort of achievement.

Ya people are all crazy you know that?

Calling a simple movement pattern that doesn't even break the game or anything (and in pve game with that) an exploit. And if it was an "exploit" sure as hell it wouldn't made it to the Valkyr prime trailer.

Quote

 I feel it's rather ingenious and I enjoy it--even if it isn't by design

Nothing in your life would have changed if there would've been an optional tutorial.

Edited September 28, 2017 by -Temp0-

[Me.KayOh]

23 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

I recently picked up Gigantic and in a short tutorial it explained probably 90% of game's mechanics that you need to know asap to start playing. It takes 5 minutes. Compared to WF it is. so. well . done. holy crp.

and how much mechanics do you need to know to play that game, as compared to all the mechanics of warframe? "5 minutes". lol

that sounds stupid and boring. most fun I ever had in Warframe was when I joined. and what did we have back then? all we had was the game. nothing to hold our hands, nothing to spoon feed us. If you wanted to progress, you had to immerse yourself. its a pity that that experience is now lost.

Now we have ppl here crying about not enough spoon feeding. lmfao. do you want all of Warframe's mechanics handed to you in 5 mins? Next thing you know, ppl will want operator form from the get-go.

and @OP if 3 of your friends did not return after playing the game for one day, its their loss. it also says alot about how they make decisions regarding what they play. None of that is my problem though.

I'm just putting it out there since I really dont feel its necessary to have made yet another thread to complain about Warframe's new-player experience just because your own friends left you in the game. afaik, the new player experience is something that the developers hold closely and its received alot of work in the recent past. But the game is not only made up of new players. Its been around for 4 years now. They have to cater to different types of players. Not just new ones.

[(XBOX)Spaztic Magic]

7 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Nothing in your life would have changed if there would've been an optional tutorial.

This is correct. The dilemma we are facing here, however, is not that there isn't a tutorial in WF, but rather that you feel it is not robust enough. WF does have a tutorial, and I feel it is just enough to show the bare-bones basics. The rest is left up for the player to discover in a number of ways. WF is not for the faint of heart with its current design--that is also true.

Edited September 28, 2017 by (XB1)Spaztic Magic
Clarity

[-Temp0-]

Just now, Church002 said:

and how much mechanics do you need to know to play that game, as compared to all the mechanics of warframe? "5 minutes". lol

A freaking lot. Warframe and Gigantic both aren't your usual run & gun cod type of games where alll tutorial boils down to your showing how to press wasd and lmb and gigantic is objective oriented game with that, there's a lot to know to even begin understanding wtf is happening on your screen.

If Warframe at least tried to make a 5 minutes tutorial then we would talk. But no one even bothered.

Quote

most fun I ever had in Warframe was when I joined.

And that has nothing to do with the topic. You had fun because it was new, all games are fun at first. Not because you couldn't look up a basic optional game tutorial in the actual game.

Quote

that sounds stupid and boring.

Reading wiki is stupid and boring as well as leveling cracked mods that you gor from your first boss.

Playing optional tutorial is the opposite of "stupid".

[PookieNumnums]

when they first updated the new player experience after the release of the liset and such, players that started or started back HAD to take the tutorial in order to learn bullet jump and aim glide and the new corny wall hop. they were able to skip the tutorial which imo wasn't the best idea to put that in because many people were like 'how do I move'

 

I have to agree that the game does sort of feel somewhat POINTLESS once you get through vors prize, simply because theres no motivator or instructor to sorta push you in the right direction. 

Also, about the broken mods, these should just totally be removed from the game. The devs need to really consider the 'bum out' factor of certain aspects of the game, namely broken mods and darvo's shop. Let me explain, 

You get a streamline and its damaged but you don't even know what that means and youre like "COOL I CAN CAST THINGS EASIER" then you find one that isn't damaged and it sits in your inventory because you still haven't learned the difference yet and haven't noticed there is even a non broken version. So you end up playing the game for a month or two then someone is like 'send me an ss of your loadout' once you ask them for tips and they come back with 'dude, you need to rank up that unbroken version'. all of a sudden you understand the difference and realize that you've wasted (what is early on quite precious) the little bit of endo you've scraped up on broken intensify, broken streamline, broken serration, and a few crappy utility mods that no one really actually uses in the long run. what a bummer. 

OR

You buy some plat and youre kinda new and you don't have a clan or any experienced friends, and you end up in a relay and you see that darvo is selling twin vipers at 40% off and you think 'wow these have to be better than this mk1 furis I'm using' and you buy it. ONLY TO REALIZE that theyre pretty weak anyhow and that you could have crafted them instead through buying the blueprints,  and rather than what you feel now is wasting it on mediocre weapons,  spent the plat you just 'lost' on the slots and potatoes everyone is telling you that you need. what a bummer.

 

darvos shop needs to have better items, broken mods need to be removed and replaced with normal ones. and the lotus should tell you 'there is a mysterious being located at the such and such junction, they have an important mission for you. work your way through the star chart tenno and prove to them that you are the right tenno for the job'. or something along those lines. 

 

as for the mods terminal, almost every terminal has a tutorial button, I think one of the devs said they were going to make the game FORCE new players to click on the tutorials and read through them in the beginning. giving them an ordis or lotus voice over during the reading session would also be a good idea IMO. 

Newbies do need to be taken by the hand a bit, but tbh theres not really that much to learn at first other than how to use the terminals, and what the star chart is all about. 

 

**side thot**

a smol quest to complete an invasion early on that explains that you need to do 3 runs and then wait for your reward would ALSO be a good idea. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by PookieNumnums

[Fiftycentis]

2 minutes ago, PookieNumnums said:

You get a streamline and its damaged but you don't even know what that means and youre like "COOL I CAN CAST THINGS EASIER" then you find one that isn't damaged and it sits in your inventory because you still haven't learned the difference yet and haven't noticed there is even a non broken version. So you end up playing the game for a month or two then someone is like 'send me an ss of your loadout' once you ask them for tips and they come back with 'dude, you need to rank up that an unbroken version'. all of a sudden you understand the difference and realize that you've wasted (what is early on quite precious) the little bit of endo you've scraped up on broken intensify, broken streamline, broken serration, and a few crappy utility mods that no one really actually uses in the long run. what a bummer.

if i get something that's damaged i suppose that we have a non damaged version, it seems a obvious thing to me, and not all the broken mods are useless, damaged serration at max level requires less endo, and give a better bonus for the same mod drain. Damaged flow has 3 level, and gives you 72% energy max for 5 drain, while normal flow gives you 75% for  6 at rank 2. So imo those are good mods that give a slight bonus for a minimum investment.

[Danjal777]

I agree and disagree.

I don't think Warframe should hold your hand with the systems, they should slowly unfold as the game goes on.

But it fails majorly at not only telling you where to go, but telling you why to go there and why you should even care.

At the end of each bossfight and relay there should be a cutscene that drives a narrative.  

[PookieNumnums]

4 minutes ago, Fiftycentis said:

if i get something that's damaged i suppose that we have a non damaged version, it seems a obvious thing to me, and not all the broken mods are useless, damaged serration at max level requires less endo, and give a better bonus for the same mod drain. Damaged flow has 3 level, and gives you 72% energy max for 5 drain, while normal flow gives you 75% for  6 at rank 2. So imo those are good mods that give a slight bonus for a minimum investment.

serration gives you like 40 % compared to undamaged giving you 165%

I'm not in game so I cant check the stats atm and I may not even have the damaged copies anymore but iirc the difference in MOST of them is substantial enough that its still a waste of endo when youre a new player.

and while seeing that its damaged might trigger a natural response in you that there is probably a nondamaged version, youd be surprised how many new players Ive helped or watched stream warframe that are so blinded by the grandeur of everything else in game that they don't notice at all that it says damaged right on it. 

IF they don't want to remove damaged mods, then the damaged mods should come fully ranked up, have a visual crack on the graphic, and ordis should say something like 'lets try to find a normal version of your mods to replace the damaged ones, operator' every time you access the upgrade screen with a damaged mod equipped. that will likely cause players to look at their mods and see that its damaged. likewise, if you have a version that isn't damaged in your inventory he should say 'you have an undamaged version of that mod operator' if you do, and perhaps they could even add in an additional category (like how we have the various polarity, exilus, aura and riven categories) for damaged mods, and if there is a damaged mod equipped and ordis is suggesting to replace it then the category for damaged mods should flash or pulse and in there is the non damaged replacement or something to that effect. 

 

 

[PookieNumnums]

13 minutes ago, Fiftycentis said:

if i get something that's damaged i suppose that we have a non damaged version, it seems a obvious thing to me, and not all the broken mods are useless, damaged serration at max level requires less endo, and give a better bonus for the same mod drain. Damaged flow has 3 level, and gives you 72% energy max for 5 drain, while normal flow gives you 75% for  6 at rank 2. So imo those are good mods that give a slight bonus for a minimum investment.

after my reply to you above, I have an idea and I'm going to go suggest it in the proper thread, and that idea is that clans at a certain rank or higher should automatically give basic mod packs to new recruits. 

like if youre clan is rank ten, then every new recruit will get a pack that has streamline, continuity, intensify, flow, or whatever. I'm going to hash out the packs while I write up the suggestion. perhaps at x level common mandatory mods, at x level uncommon, and at x level rare. 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

How about spend, from time to time, a little bit of your precious time on low level Planets and give Newbies few tips and tricks during missions?

[ikkabotz]

All this really comes down to the user experience and it could be understood more clearly from the start, which I can agree with. .however players getting into this game really need a sense of how to find information because if they don't they are going to be lost for a very long time and nothing will fix that for them. .there's nothing wrong with games requiring some sense of self direction to accomplish things and Warframe is one of them. .I really don't think we need to worry about the game being dumbed down into the ground for people who just don't get it, but they could do way better explaining the play experience to new comers at the very start

Edited September 29, 2017 by komoriblues

[13QZXXTTX]

@KillerXDLZ

*scroll down*

 

M-Rated 

There is definitely "High" Learning-Curve. Since I try WarFrame YEARS ago, I quit because it kind of feel "too much". Return Years later and start picking  up WarFrames, felt just right. After few Years of Online Games that were WAY MORE HORRIBLE (P2W, few HardCore, Salts?).

Remember: Don't Rush to Top MR, and RESEARCH. o.o If your Friends is not interested, then they aren't.

:| Unfortunately not everyone is perfect, and there is consequences (responsibility?).  "Personal Preference" 

 

Quest and Angst.

Q: I RAGE QUIT

A: Time to take a break from Gaming and do other things like Living.

Q: This Game Suck!

A: Learn to Break-Up before Commitment. 

Q: Would I play other Online Games?

A: Is it worth it?

Q: Should I pay 60 buck for the next sequel?

A: You got the money or is the Game on Sale?

Q: CHECK OUT this NEW GAME! It like the same thing we are playing.

A: I got to go.

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, Teshin_Dax said:

i agree on everything except the part about movement

You might laugh but thanks to not having any movement tutorial i have reached rank 6 before i knowed how can i bullet jump and rank 8 before i learned i can roll in air.

There should be a traning ground on earth where you can go and test basic stuff out, a parkour room with a specter showing what can you do and a basic target practice room with some target dummies so they can experiment early on but not as efficiently as in the simalurcum.

[SpoonyBrad]

2 hours ago, _Chizuru_ said:

There are still people who might need something they can start with as an orientation to approach the game they want.

"The game they want" and "the game Warframe is" may not be the same game, or even overlap much. Could WF use some better tutorials/orientation? Yes. Should it hand out everything on a silver platter? Absolutely not. I'm not trying to be obnoxious here, but if they don't like playing the game for the sake of playing the game (i.e. the excellent high speed shooter/brawler/superpowers/kitchen sink core), then they're still going to quit, whether after a day or after a week.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

Indeed, when I started this game (back in the day, when I was your age; lol) I didn't know what to do or why! I never understood the mod system very well, either! 

Modding to me is adding a silencer, a bigger magazine, or a secondary shield generator so when my shields go down it regenerates within a second. 

All of those options are available, but I feel like the only way to explain this is to literally have the Wikipedia articles in game! 

I played originally on PC back in the beginning and my idea of modding was equipping the correct ability mod on your Warframe. I never realized how important mods were because they were entirely necessary to actually play the game not modify the gameplay! 

I still feel like an idiot because it took me so long (a few months) to figure it out! 

 

As a side de note I did like discovering things for myself, but not being able to kill things as a MR 7 was extremely frustrating! If damaged mods are in the game, they should already be fully ranked.

I'm also happy for the "Specters of the Rail" update as it actually added more direction in the sense of how to acquire and complete quests and objectives in sequential manner. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by (XB1)ZenithLord 42
MR Frustration

[PrVonTuckIII]

Lorewise, it makes more sense for us not to have info. Ya know, 'cause we just came out of a centuries-long cryotryst.

Additionally, I agree with the general sentiment: If you can't stay with a game because it's not holding your hand, then you shouldn't be playing in the first place. I enjoyed the fact that I was given just enough information to start off, but aside from that, I was given the freedom to do what I wanted. It was nice figuring things out by myself.

[Helaton]

The other thing for new players is also mission types.

I remember long ago that I was 'Cool, this is a new mission type Interception'.  But when I got in, its obviously impossible to solo it for any new player. Got frustrated at it initially.

I also came back from a 2 year dormancy and was 'What the heck is Ayatan Sculptures and Stars and Endo'?

Agreed: The star chart needs to stay small and very localized for new players.

Agreed: Mods needs more than a 'Tutorial' button in the lower right.  Liset in general needs a walkthrough of all its capabilities as you unlock them. (Unlock the foundry, explain everything you need to know. Unlock Kubrow/Other, explain about companions) etc.

Agreed: The codex is good, but no one likes to read the encyclopedia tenno galactica when they are getting started. They are determining if they are wanting to stay or not. Keeping them playing = Staying.

I have buddies who just started, and the questions they ask (there's 2 of them, now MR 3 after a few days) are reflective of the above. But its not that they are messing up, its that they don't know that some of that functionality exists and how beneficial it is to them.

[Mad_Gamer]

One of the main reasons I leaved the game 4 years ago is because i was really lost and did not know what to do.

I came back because it improved a lot altough I have to admit Is not a game that holds your hand and tells you now do this, now do that, you need to "do it yourself" basically, hell even leveling is non existent, instead we have moding and ranking, which is pretty much whatever you decide.

So yeah Is a special an unique game. Basically not for everyone.

[SpoonyBrad]

2 minutes ago, Helaton said:

The other thing for new players is also mission types.

I remember long ago that I was 'Cool, this is a new mission type Interception'.  But when I got in, its obviously impossible to solo it for any new player. Got frustrated at it initially.

I also came back from a 2 year dormancy and was 'What the heck is Ayatan Sculptures and Stars and Endo'?

Agreed: The star chart needs to stay small and very localized for new players.

Agreed: Mods needs more than a 'Tutorial' button in the lower right.  Liset in general needs a walkthrough of all its capabilities as you unlock them. (Unlock the foundry, explain everything you need to know. Unlock Kubrow/Other, explain about companions) etc.

Agreed: The codex is good, but no one likes to read the encyclopedia tenno galactica when they are getting started. They are determining if they are wanting to stay or not. Keeping them playing = Staying.

I have buddies who just started, and the questions they ask (there's 2 of them, now MR 3 after a few days) are reflective of the above. But its not that they are messing up, its that they don't know that some of that functionality exists and how beneficial it is to them.

Very much agreed on Interception; for non-Archwing versions (and nobody seems to like Archwing much) they're virtually impossible to solo without both a ton of practice and very good gear, yet give no warning "if you try to do this alone, you will fail", and I'd been trying to solo when I first started out so I could learn the mechanics of the game. That could really use some work.

The star chart could probably benefit from a default zoom level that varies based on how much of it you've unlocked (and thus has a tighter focus when you haven't unlocked much), and tutorials on basic game mechanics should be somewhat clearer without requiring resorting to the codex or the wiki. No disagreement (Hek, is it even explicitly mentioned in the game that the codex exists?).

I don't think it should hold someone's hand (as mentioned above, if you want hand-holding, WF probably is not the game for you, and isn't likely to become it), but making the fundamentals more clear (and not just the occasional MR test or loading screen hint) would be good.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

Personally I think it has to do with being stuck with the same frame and weapons for days unless you spend money. Have to play with excal from 3+ years ago was boring as hell.

[Helaton]

Well, they are stuck with the same frames, but they are crafting new weapons as they go along.  It would probably be a good thing to let people easily play test in simulation new warframes. One buddy started with Excal, the other with Mag.  The person who ended up with Mag didn't like it that much thus impacting their game start experience in a negative way.

If players could choose between any of the 3 at any time before they hit MR 2 with messages like "By switching to Mag, Volt will be reset to level 1 and any mods will be removed. Do you want to continue?" Yep!  Now you can switch and play between the starter warframes.

When you hit MR 2, "By completing this Mastery Challenge, you will have earned a permanent warframe." > Beat it, pick from the 3 in the selection screen which one you want to keep.  Can no longer switch between the starting warframes (but probably on your way to oberon or similar)

[SpoonyBrad]

8 minutes ago, Helaton said:

Well, they are stuck with the same frames, but they are crafting new weapons as they go along.  It would probably be a good thing to let people easily play test in simulation new warframes. One buddy started with Excal, the other with Mag.  The person who ended up with Mag didn't like it that much thus impacting their game start experience in a negative way.

If players could choose between any of the 3 at any time before they hit MR 2 with messages like "By switching to Mag, Volt will be reset to level 1 and any mods will be removed. Do you want to continue?" Yep!  Now you can switch and play between the starter warframes.

When you hit MR 2, "By completing this Mastery Challenge, you will have earned a permanent warframe." > Beat it, pick from the 3 in the selection screen which one you want to keep.  Can no longer switch between the starting warframes (but probably on your way to oberon or similar)

That's actually quite a good idea, given that the 3 starter frames have wildly differing capabilities and, consequently, play styles. I don't like every part of it (very new players may not know what warframe (or mastery) rank even does yet), but there's certainly a seed in there I like.

[Me.KayOh]

4 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

A freaking lot. Warframe and Gigantic both aren't your usual run & gun cod type of games where alll tutorial boils down to your showing how to press wasd and lmb and gigantic is objective oriented game with that, there's a lot to know to even begin understanding wtf is happening on your screen.

If Warframe at least tried to make a 5 minutes tutorial then we would talk. But no one even bothered.

And that has nothing to do with the topic. You had fun because it was new, all games are fun at first. Not because you couldn't look up a basic optional game tutorial in the actual game.

Reading wiki is stupid and boring as well as leveling cracked mods that you gor from your first boss.

Playing optional tutorial is the opposite of "stupid".

wait wait wait....they reworked the new player experience and they didnt "try"? lmfao. you keep your superiority complex to yourself bud. when you're developing your own game, maybe it'll be of use to you. 

if all new games are fun at first then the problem isnt the game in this case right? its the OP's friends and their manner of passing judgement before even reaching MR 5. and FYI all of warframe's mechanics span across something like 9 MR levels. but yea you fit that into 5 mins and see how that works out for you. 

srsly...you think just because its easy af for you to come here and type a complaint about it, that its the same way to implement it in a game. when you realise that it isnt, and that the majority of the playerbase are NOT NEW players but players that still require content to play, then maybe there's something to discuss.