Why most people that start playing Warframe leave the next day.

[Fiftycentis]

1 hour ago, Rehk-Sai said:

Movement? Had no idea how to bullet jump until day 3 or 4 (was only doing it on accident up until then). Had no idea how to wall latch until I got to the freaking LUA spy mission which requires it. 

codex movement tutorial (and in that lua spy vault you don't need to do the wall latch parkour)

1 hour ago, Rehk-Sai said:

Story? I had to watch a lore video to have ANY clue what is going on with the story or narrative. This was one of the biggest disappointments, because honestly WF has a pretty good story, but you have ZERO clue what's going on as a new player. Even after watching lore videos, the presentation as it appears in game is really fragmented and disorganized from a story perspective.

the problem with this is that part of the story is event related, so new players that missed the events are missing story parts

1 hour ago, Rehk-Sai said:

The very last thing that really bothers me as a new player is the complete lack of UI customization (resizing and moving things around like the orientation and layout of energy, health, and shield information). 

for this... nothing to say, i passed more than one ui change on warframe and i adapted to them, but i understand that it could be really good for someone to be able to rearrange it

[ArsVampyre]

There is never going to be a better way than friends explaining things to other friends. Being able to ask questions, get suggestions...

You can find 'beginner guides' on Youtube, though I don't know if they're up to date, and that would be my second suggestion. Can't really ask it questions, but you can get a sense of what you 'should' do until you figure out how to decide that for yourself.

Otherwise, the game has to be linear to force the player down a particular path so that you can explain it, and Vor's quest is that linear tutorial. As I remember it, there's a section on putting on mods, and while it could be better, frankly I think at some point the player has to want to learn more. Perhaps links to video tutorials or something for particular topics.

But I would rather DE not continue focusing effort on material that doesn't really help retain players; I think most of those 3 out of 4 who leave (if the number is really that) won't stay anyway. Warframe is good, and popular, but it's not that good and popular, and a 25% retention rate is pretty good, IMO.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

On 10/9/2017 at 12:57 PM, Rehk-Sai said:

This feels like it should go double for bosses. Which are incredibly disappointing. Coming into WF I was expecting big bosses the size of Lephantis as the norm. Bosses with 1-3 phases, and weak parts, patterns of attack, just interesting fights almost like you can see in old Playstation or Playstation 2 mech games. Instead, we get really gimmicky and cheesy fights where they don't really feel like bosses. There are some that are much better than others, but on the whole they hardly take any skill or teamwork to take down, just some fore-knowledge on their cheese mechanic. 

I agree, Rehk-Sai! I'm a player who started with the original, spiritual-successor, Dark Sector, then joined Warframe on PC, and finally XboxOne. The bosses in Dark Sector where similar to many of the bosses in Warframe and some, like the Jackal, are almost just reskins with different abilities! 

Many of the names are the same! The Stalker, the Jackal, and the Colossus; the Colossus is similar to J3 Golem (back in the day, update 8?), just a different encounter. 

The bosses in Dark Sector all had various processes that you had to go through to defeat them. An example would be having to light the infested webbing on the pillars of a church on fire when the Colossus was on one, just to be able to damage him. 

The bosses in Warframe are kind of a joke. Thank goodness DE reworked many of them to include differing mechanics to beat them, such as the Ambulas, Kela de Thayme, and the Raptor! (Even if those bosses are frustrating and a little annoying!) 

Basically, what I am saying is that Dark Sector had much better boss encounters than Warframe. Even the "tutorials" for Dark Sector were a part of gameplay in which the game didn't so much explain everything, but informed you that you had something new and could do x and get y. 

In Warframe there are tutorials that are presented in the codex/info tab and third parties (Wikipedia). It is presented in a incoherent, choppy manner, which is very confusing and explains it explicitly as, "you must do this, idiot." 

The same can be said of the story! I know there is one, but it is so out of order that you have to piece it together on Wikipedia, once again! The story makes more sense if you were able to follow it update by update, but newer players don't have that luxury. 

I love Warframe, but it is very off-putting to new players. I'll keep playing, but the game still feels like a bunch of different different pieces and mechanics were stuffed together and shotgunned out into what we have today. Which, without understanding the context and progression of the game over time, the new players are left confused. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

Well, this is important, yes, but you realise that less than two years ago the initial Vor's Prize quest didn't even exist...

Warframe is constantly improving on the New Player experience, and they will definitely have the tutorials done, but later. When the New Player experience was being worked on, the Veteran players started to complain about nothing being put in that they could sink their experienced teeth into, and now it's the other way around, the more experienced players (starting at The Second Dream stage and up) are getting something impressive and far reaching, with aspects for the ones who've done everything in the game too, but the New Players aren't getting the content they need to set them up correctly.

It'll come back around, and there'll be new ways of handling the new player bit.

But... if you want my honest opinion?

Loads of games drop you after the tutorial with no idea where to go and what to do. The new Legend of Zelda just opens you up on the wild with no clear path except an old man sitting by a fire a little way in the distance. That's it. There's only the big over-arching quest, and you can even do that without doing anything but walking up to the gates and challenging the boss, there's no linearity if you don't want there to be.

Sandbox games do it all the time, and many of them explain their systems even less. Warframe at least now has the road-map style of navigation, where each planet has clear progression and the Junctions get you to do specific tasks to complete them that require missions and time spent.

Yes the modding system is a mystery to most, that's the next step, if I'm predicting their work ethic right, but it's going to take a little while before they get there.

[Kandiva]

I like the fact that everything isn't spoon fed to me. It made me look for it online, and that somehow made me like the game more. 

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

There was a week long ago where I met a fellow who joined the WF Xbox One Discord server. He was only 3 hours old into the game and enjoyed it a lot. We helped him with the quests/progression and about several days later he tells my friends and I that he blew over $700 into the game. 

The following week he never came back to Warframe.

Edited October 11, 2017 by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY

[Mad_Gamer]

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)OTF SERENiTY said:

There was a week long ago where I met a fellow who joined the WF Xbox One Discord server. He was only 3 hours old into the game and enjoyed it a lot. We helped him with the quests/progression and about several days later he tells my friends and I that he blew over $700 into the game. 

The following week he never came back to Warframe.

700 bucks??? Wtf??? If i spend that I would force myself to play it xD.

[Mad_Gamer]

12 hours ago, Kandiva said:

I like the fact that everything isn't spoon fed to me. It made me look for it online, and that somehow made me like the game more. 

I think some people like being spoon fed.... New games are spoiling gamers IMO. Wich is sad.

[(PSN)godhelpme89]

On 10/7/2017 at 9:12 PM, Chipputer said:

But it is.

The mod has a different image and has the text "DAMAGED" right there in the description. It takes a simple bit of logical processing to see, "This one is cracked and says damaged and this one isn't," to realize that the one that doesn't say damaged must somehow be different and explore the situation further and realize that it's stronger because it's... not a damaged mod.

Some things do need tutorials. That's fine. Some things need basic reading comprehension and basic brain function to understand.

Of course! Common sense in a video game...

I was just over on the Nintendo forum and a guy was asking how to play Mario. I said use some common sense! Obviously you want to smash your face on a brick wall and hope a coin or magic mushroom pops out. Duh.

[Insidiatorii]

On 9/28/2017 at 12:35 PM, peger said:

It's not only WF. People start playing "new" game, and after day or two they lose interest.

 

 

Because today's players are too stupid (yes i said it, you can now lynch me) and expect the game will lead them by hand.

TRUE. It's not hard to figure out to work a video game... I remember when I didn't know a thing about Warframe, and then all of a sudden things started to make sense. I mean, I barely play an hour a week anymore, but this is still my "go-to" game. 

[BlackCoMerc]

5 hours ago, Mad_Gamer said:

I think some people like being spoon fed.... New games are spoiling gamers IMO. Wich is sad.

And this repeated Strawman is why we can't discuss the lousy new player experience in real terms. Because apparently only stupid people want to be shown how a product they purchase functions at the mechanical level.

Sure. Keep telling yourself that, while the game we both live and want to see successful keeps bleeding g 50%+ of the new players who try it. Cause that's a recipe for success.

[Mad_Gamer]

13 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

And this repeated Strawman is why we can't discuss the lousy new player experience in real terms. Because apparently only stupid people want to be shown how a product they purchase functions at the mechanical level.

Sure. Keep telling yourself that, while the game we both live and want to see successful keeps bleeding g 50%+ of the new players who try it. Cause that's a recipe for success.

I think the game is doing good so far, is not for everyone, I haven't seen DE struggling. And they improved a lot over the last years, the first time it launched it was a loooot difficult to figure things out, that's one of the reasons i left (and i came back now), but now is a lot easier, if people just can't or don't want to play the game cuz is grindy hard or whatever other reason just dont play it plain and simple.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Mad_Gamer

[BlackCoMerc]

30 minutes ago, Mad_Gamer said:

I think the game is doing good so far, is not for everyone, I haven't seen DE struggling. And they improved a lot over the last years, the first time it launched it was a loooot difficult to figure things out, that's one of the reasons i left (and i came back now), but now is a lot easier, if people just can't or don't want to play the game cuz is grindy hard or whatever other reason just dont play it plain and simple.

That's a deflection, and you know it. This thread was never about quitting due to grind. It's about the games failure to explain how it works to new players.

This isn't about taste in games. It's about understanding the core mechanics, how to use them and why Warframe fails to instruct players in such basics. Don't deflection from that.

[Sentinel-14]

Up front, I've not read every post in the thread. If what I repeat something that's already been said, my apologies.

I think the game could benefit a bit from making it more clear that certain tutorials are available. I did not know there were tutorials in the Codex prior to seeing this thread: to me the Codex seemed like a repository of lore, so I've never really looked too much into it. Maybe once you get your Codex Segment Ordis could inform you there's a 'refresher guide' for movement available. After getting the Mod segment, Ordis could say "Operator, check your Codex for a guide on how to apply and upgrade mods." Basically, have Ordis, or Lotus, inform the player directly that new tutorials are available in the Codex as they unlock. This way they are optional, for those who don't want to be spoonfed, but still available for those that Do want a guide.

However, it's a bit hard to do tutorials when entire mechanics are subject to overhaul that might invalidate the old tutorial. Generally I think a tutorial would be developed after the mechanic is finalized, which means delaying the launch of the mechanic until the tutorial is done. This might not be much, but I can see how any delay internally might be viewed negatively.

Given that this game is technically still a Beta, and everything is subject to change, I can give DE a pass for not having a clear Tutorial for each of their mechanics, or at least making it clear those tutorials exist. Further, it does actually help tie the community together when players help each other learn the mechanics. Still, sometimes a player might want to learn at their own pace, or might need a refresher course if they come back after an extended absence and the mechanic has changed.

Now that I think about it, while on that topic, it'd be a good idea for Lotus to inform the player, via a login message, that mechanics have changed since they last logged in so they should check their codex to see what's changed. Nobody coming back is going to read months/years of patch notes to see what's different.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

The only real issues I ever had with Warframe were these three: 

1. It takes a long to level up and actually be able to have an effective character. (In the beginning.) Which is frustrating for new players because the enjoyment factor of having a useful character at first is a chore. 

2. The energy economy is extremely harsh when you begin. If you want to use any of your powers you either have to wait until you level up or wait until you kill an enemy and maybe they drop an energy orb. There should be a slow, passive energy regeneration from the beginning like maybe .5 energy per second. 

3. Power implementation and energy economy. This one relates to the two points above. The multiplayer mode on Mass Effect 3 was outstanding with its character upgrades, power functions, and the individual movement and bonus functions of each character. (I hate comparing games, but I'm going to!)

Each character had powers that functioned on recharge so that you couldn't spam abilities. Each character also had their own unique movement and dodge mechanics. Krogan moved and felt heavy and had strong, damaging powers, but recharged slower. Asari could run faster, take cover faster, and used their biotics (space magic) both offensively and defensively (powers and shields). 

The dodge mechanics also were incredibly different for each as some would roll, some had jet packs, and some even had wings to allow them to reach different areas and run quicker. 

After playing Mass Effect 3's multiplayer and then returning to Warframe, I asked myself a question: was Warframe worth the time investment when a multiplayer addition on one game brought more features than an entire game? 

Yes, Warframe is worth the time! I love the grind, the way it plays, the customization, and the community! It's not the fact that they are two different games, it's these two facts: one is more accessible than the other and the fact that the amount of time required to play the game may be a little too much for people to stay with Warframe. 

I've bought a few Prime Access accessory packs simply for the boosters which cuts my time in half, leveling up which is far more worth my time and money than playing without them. Some people would love for the game to go faster, but $60 for a "free-to-play" game is a little steep! 

This has been my 2 cents plus a dollar fifty... Thanks for reading, Tenno! 

[peger]

Basic tutorial like WF/weapons capacity, installation and upgrading mods, buying items/BP from market and crafting them in foundry can be very easy implemented as a part of first quest.  The rest can be learned by playing, using google (skill that has probably been completely forgotten ;)) asking other players or even look at YT. It's not longer a 1990, we don't  have to buy game magazines just to read FAQ or walkthrough.

On 10.10.2017 at 11:52 PM, Thaylien said:

Sandbox games do it all the time, and many of them explain their systems even less. Warframe at least now has the road-map style of navigation, where each planet has clear progression and the Junctions get you to do specific tasks to complete them that require missions and time spent.

True but these games (like Skyrim and Fallout) have markers pointing the way to your destination. So the game tells you "go there". Basically it's "sandbox with road-map style of navigation". And it's not like that this games have a super complicated game mechanics. You can even say that from game to game they are becoming more and more simple.

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by peger

[Birdframe_Prime]

I mean, let's be honest here, people, what Warframe consisted of when it started was 'moon logic'. If you haven't heard the term, it means that the logic is absolutely sound and fine, if you're in the same place, but if you're on the earth, the logic from the moon (like not jumping too hard and accidentally leaping for a mile) doesn't make any sense.

DE made their game with a lot of passion and they're still doing so, but you have to actually get to know DE, see how they think, how they progress from thought to thought, otherwise you don't get their logic.

The systems in Warframe make perfect sense, if you're thinking like DE.

But that, for most average players, is a massive down side, because they can't figure that out. We have some markers, @peger says that most sandbox games have them, and Warframe has them too; after the initial quest, you look at the navigation and the missions you can take on are all pulsing at you saying 'click me!'

And though we have that? It's not quite enough. We get our own first Sentinel now, we get our quests for a Kubrow, for an Archwing, for our next Warframes... But modding? Now that's complex, and the only tutorial in the game is the button in the corner labelled 'tutorial' which is purely text based. There's no interactivity or demonstration of what to do there.

The mission types aren't very well explained, if you miss the voice lines at the start of a mission then if it's your first time? Who knows how to play it?

Okay, anecdotal evidence here, but I spent ten minutes in a Survival mission trying to explain to a guy that the Life Support didn't stack past 100%. It's a basic one, right? Life Support pods drop 30%, if you activate a pod and you're above 70% then you lose whatever amount is left over after reaching 100%. I had to actually demonstrate it to him to show him that it was percent, not a countdown. This was an honest bit of confusion for this player and he got back in contact with me a week later to say that he'd then shown this to his friends, and thanked me for helping out. Weird, but true.

Actually, best comment ever? Somebody tried to tell me that if you sprinted in Survival it used Life Support faster...

Anyway.

People like @(PS4)godhelpme89 and @BlackCoMerc are not wrong. Warframe doesn't need to hand-hold us, but there are plenty of things that are missing from those starter missions.

What I will say, though, is that DE are kinda pressed for time right now, if you hadn't noticed. Give them a break until the huge update drops, and probably until The Sacrifice is well underway too, and you'll probably see them expanding the New Player Experience quests and tutorials soon after that.

[True_Naeblis]

Honestly the game play right after Vor was a non-issue. What got on my nerves was things like scanning Arid Lancers and then the scans to start Natah. Later on I'm all for having RNG as to if Simaris has a target for you, but no explanation that there's one lancer per mission or that they're only in mission if Simaris notifies you beforehand doesn't exactly present as streamlined. The way the scans for Natah work is even sillier, with more nodes opened increasing the odds and one specific node having the highest odds of the specters show, none of which--just like with the Arid Lancers--is explained in game.

Players who quit right after Vor probably weren't having all than amazing of a time anyway and wouldn't really be missing out on what's to come. Players who get frustrated from having to dig on the Wiki time and time again are the ones who probably would have stuck around. People shouldn't have to hope they come across friendly, knowledgeable players a few hours in just to keep progressing for such a linear title.

TLDR: stop being so vague. The War Within/Second Dream were amazing to complete, and it sucks that you're losing players who also would have enjoyed that experience had the ramp up to them not been so haphazardly directed.

[TheBrsrkr]

Wow, this much salt in a thread that isn't about nerfs? Color me surprised. 

The problem with everyone that says "adding tutorials is hand holding babbys first TPS" us that most of this information is not the kind of thing you pick up on the fly. I see many cries to the old school. Well, the old school was really samey. You had at most 8 buttons and each button did one thing. One thing you could probably do from the start, and if  you couldn't they would either tell you how or put in in a place that you can find it in and experiment with. Warframe isn't like that. 

 

Think of the dominating first person shooters. They won't tell you anything about them but you can make out what to do from all the others you play. Sprint to run. Space to jump. Fire aim down sights, throw grenades, you get the drift. All you really have to do is find the button. And when you got something special like the air strike, they'd tell you what you have to hit to get it. Not how to use it, mind you, just how to get to use it. 

Warframe is not like that. Same things apply to the weapons, but modding and movement are far more complex in warframe than other games. How do you really expect a player to know he has to crouch then jump while pointing the reticle where he needs to go? It's not an intuitive thing to know. How is a player supposed to know how to rank up mods? You go to the arsenal to put on mods, so you would think you could modify them there. Ordis  also says it's for VIEWING mods, not upgrading. And when you start you have no mods at all. How are players supposed to know about potatoes? Forma? Selecting quests? These are not intuitive systems. A player has to he informed about them for them to work or even know about it. This isn't Metal Slug. 

[NavyElk]

On 10/10/2017 at 10:11 PM, (Xbox One)OTF SERENiTY said:

There was a week long ago where I met a fellow who joined the WF Xbox One Discord server. He was only 3 hours old into the game and enjoyed it a lot. We helped him with the quests/progression and about several days later he tells my friends and I that he blew over $700 into the game. 

The following week he never came back to Warframe.

Well if hes not dead, thats probably cause his partents sold his Xbox, TV and anything else of value to pay back the credit card charges of $700.00?
LOL thats just a guess though

[(XBOX)BostonWins]

XBOX ONE

As a (very) new player, here are my issues...

After completing Vor's prize I can see that I just need to go out there and discover the new questlines. A little vague but not impossible.

Mods are an issue if I hadn't stumbled on a forum about the whole "damaged" thing I wouldn't have figured that out.. Most games have an option to repair "damaged" components or mods not just tell you to dump them. So this should be commented on at some point.

The forge, yes I can use it to craft weapons (at some point?) but I have done 6-8 missions now, beaten Vor and collected tons of stuff and still have no idea how to get or use blueprints...

In fact, I am STILL using all starter weapons.. if they are not "starter" weapons and are viable endgame weapons this should be mentioned somewhere but they FEEL like starter weapons because they were handed to me.

I bought Plat and got Harrow I'm not UNhappy with him but I feel like a better skill and use breakdown in the market would help. I bought him because I read void-support and was sold, but after getting him I realize he plays more like a solo high maintenance.

I think new players should be brought to the city (where ever it is; I  STILL don't know, without looking it up) so they can see the community and what end progress looks like.

The problem is Warframe is it's SUPPER deep but you can't tutorial everything or you would have a wall-of-text popups all the time.

Some people here think tutorials are "hand-holding" and maybe they are too a point, but most players don't want to read or work to understand a game. Most people have bussy lives and are spoiled by easy-to-play games *Cough Destiny Cough* so time is precious and they want to drop in, shoot something and gain progress for it.

[Fiftycentis]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)BostonWins said:

The forge, yes I can use it to craft weapons (at some point?) but I have done 6-8 missions now, beaten Vor and collected tons of stuff and still have no idea how to get or use blueprints...

6-8 mission are nothing in terms of resources, but since you bought harrow with plat i think you visited the market in your liset, there you can find the blueprints for the weapons you want to build (if you can't find the bp, it's probably a dojo research and it's stated in the weapon market page). For building it you just need to open the foundry when you have the bp and if you have enough resources you can build it, i think it's quite easy to do

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)BostonWins said:

In fact, I am STILL using all starter weapons.. if they are not "starter" weapons and are viable endgame weapons this should be mentioned somewhere but they FEEL like starter weapons because they were handed to me.

the Mk-1 series are starter weapons (while the normal skana is good, but there are better melees), so you can make them endgame viable if you know the game (like i'm doing in my second account, mk1 only), but you need to switch weapons in the game, also because there are really particular weapons that are really funny to use

[irplank]

Dunno if this is still on topic after 5 pages but i didn't read through all of it.

Just wanna point out that i'm a brand new player only a few days in, i didn't pay a single lick of attention during the tutorial mission, didn't click on a single tutorial button in game, seems redundant, border less window and google all the way.
People *@##$ing about the learning curve being too hard, would *@##$ about the tutorials being too vague in any case, you cant change whiny spoiled kids with too low an iq to realize they're in the internet age.
I'm mastery rank 1 now after a few days, a little annoying since i thought the levels were the frame and weapon ranks so i never did the tests lel... Train smash? No. I've got my fishing harpoon and my miner in the mean time, horded dozens of everything, over 100k moneys, got the twitch frost prime stuff through i don't care about your opinion of it means, have no intention of buying plat so i'm making grinding missions to earn it through someone who has no intention of going through the grind.
It's really a simple game if you take away your entitled attitude, it's a free AAA quality game with a small dev team. You want in depth tutorials? cool you'll have less content since the manpower has to be dedicated to it no? Pull you head out your &#! and either enjoy it for what it is or go buy destiny and enjoy your 2 days to complete with only 3 things to do for 60$ and 30$ DLC.
Again, i don't know if this is still on topic i'm responding to the OP and the people who agree with him.

EDIT: I stumbled on this thread by googling "is it worth playing warframe all day". I wanted to know if it's worth playing on and on while not getting up your mastery rank or if it's more viable fora few hours as you get it up.

Edited November 8, 2017 by irplank

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I agree with you irplank. Everything you said is true, but the game was confusing when it first started! I'm glad they finally put a few tutorials in the game as a lot of region chat used to be new players asking about simple things in game that weren't mentioned at all. 

One example was the availability of resources on each planet and what you had to do to acquire them. Many Tenno became quite frustrated when they discovered they would need a resource available at the end of the Starchart. A lot of Tenno also quit because Warframe seems like Destiny, but don't understand the grind or the mod system and realize that if they had understood more from the beginning, they might have enjoyed the game much more. 

Warframe really is the first and only game of it's kind. It's a shooter, an rpg, a grindfest, a looter, a slasher, its narrative driven, its character driven, it's very much a community project, and it has a very involved player base that enjoy the game. It also happens to be about space ninjas, super powers, Shinji Ikari-esque children, and what happens when power corrupts! 

So many themes and elements all tied together in a somewhat neat package that is Warframe. The point is though, that the game does throw new players into the deep end and it can be a little overwhelming. Warframe also shouldn't make players have to rely on third parties such as Wikipedia to understand how to play the game, the information should already be in-universe! 

These 2 negatives aside, Warframe is a lot of fun! It doesn't so much have a learning curve as much as it has a "I wish I had known about this sooner" element!