Cetus Eidelon Hunters and the Tenno

[Imaru]

So technically this is a spoiler, but I think just about everyone knows about Tenno, but still. 

Anyway, from what I've heard and seen, we will need to use our Tenno and Warframe together to kill the Eidelons on the plains. How is it then, that there are non-Tenno residents of Cetus who hunt the Eidelons? They said that the bomb things drop fragments so do the hunters just kill those and not worry about the big one? 

I think DE said that we will learn how to kill it from the residents, but I don't think it would make sense for non-Tenno to know how to kill it. 

Just musing before the update drops and we probably get a proper response about this. 

[InDueTime-EN-]

I don't think the residents actually are capable of fighting the Eidolons themselves. They may have just gathered information from the Orokin Tower on how the containment field works and how to deal with the Eidolons. The sentient parts that they already have in their shop were probably scavenged rather than acquired from the Eidolon directly. 

[KelsierSurvivor]

Just a question... Why would non-Tenno not be able to know how? I need to put a few things out there.

The Sentients can control technology, yes, but these people don't use technology... Like, at all. They might as well be the thirteen colonies just 2000ish years in the future. So since they use things like bows, swords, etc. Maybe a gun here and there, why would they not be able to kill Sentients? How did we kill the first drone in the Second Dream? How did we kill ANY Sentients until we unlocked the Operator? Sure, we have Warframes and mods, but when you think about it, they probably have mods too. We mod our weapons, and there's really nothing special about most of our weapons (Correct me if I'm wrong). We just have little trinkets from the Old War that make our stuff more powerful. So couldn't the Ostrons get these same trinkets?

Putting that aside, we killed Sentients before we had the Void Beam to reset their immunities. So I'm sure the Ostrons could as well. But they probably don't have enough firepower to kill the (already dead) Teralysts. (Eidolons as some call them.)

So I think they kill the drones that escape the Teralyst's range. These are what they use to make the little Sentient weapons we saw glimpses of in Devstream #98.

There's my few cents. Feel free to correct me if any of what I said is wrong. I love the lore, and I want to love it for what it really is, not for what my mistakes make it.

[InDueTime-EN-]

24 minutes ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

Why would non-Tenno not be able to know how?

Since the tower was able to defeat the Sentient in the Plains, Im sure it contains information on how to do it. A researcher could figure out ways to deal with it but they would still need void energy to do it. That is why they need the Tenno.

24 minutes ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

How did we kill ANY Sentients until we unlocked the Operator?

Those sentient were just fragments of Hunhow and even then it was difficult to take them down. The Eidolon is a better representation of a complete sentient.

24 minutes ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

So couldn't the Ostrons get these same trinkets?

I'm assuming the trinkets that the Ostrons have are scavenged parts of the Eidolon's missing arm. 

24 minutes ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

So I'm sure the Ostrons could as well. But they probably don't have enough firepower to kill the (already dead) Teralysts. (Eidolons as some call them.)

So I think they kill the drones that escape the Teralyst's range.

The Ostrons aren't a combat race, if they could deal with the Eidolons they wouldn't need the Tenno's help with the grineer. In addition, as far as we know, they're not dealing with sentient drones like we are at Lua. 

24 minutes ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

These are what they use to make the little Sentient weapons we saw glimpses of in Devstream #98.

There's my few cents. Feel free to correct me if any of what I said is wrong. I love the lore, and I want to love it for what it really is, not for what my mistakes make it.

These are my assumptions as well, so please feel free to correct them too. 

[KelsierSurvivor]

12 minutes ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

I'm assuming the trinkets that the Ostrons have are scavenged parts of the Eidolon's missing arm.

When I said trinkets, I was still referring to mods. (Lol, I just realized I probably didn't make it very clear what I meant when I said "Trinkets" in the first place.)

 

12 minutes ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

The Ostrons aren't a combat race, if they could deal with the Eidolons they wouldn't need the Tenno's help with the grineer. In addition, as far as we know, they're not dealing with sentient drones like we are at Lua. 

Now I did know that they are not a combat race, but the thread is talking about the very specific "Eidolon Teralyst Hunters". The guy who had all those Sentient-looking things in his shop was known as the "Eidolon Teralyst Hunter". (Maybe he was the Eidolon Hunter? I can't remember. I haven't seen that Devstream since the day it released.) So there are definitely some people in Cetus who are at least a little bit combative... 

That Grineer line was pretty good though. But I see one thing I find confusing... Was it ever mentioned that the Ostrons needed help with the Grineer? I would expect that since the Grineer are sort of a "Conquer All" kind of race, they would have taken Cetus by now if the Ostrons hadn't held down the fort. The Tenno haven't been there since awakening, so the Ostrons must have done something.

Again, if I'm wrong, correct me please. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by KelsierSurvivor

[PsychedelicSnake]

Eidolon Hunter is a placeholder name used by the Devs to label the NPC(s) that will help the player transition from Operator to Warrior. A placeholder in game development serves the purpose of both being a work-in-progress name/feature, as well as getting the point of said name/feature across to the coders and designers so they can do their jobs more effectively. Once everything is finalized, the placeholder may either be kept or changed depending both on developer intention as well as in-game context.

[Imaru]

10 minutes ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

Eidolon Hunter is a placeholder name used by the Devs to label the NPC(s) that will help the player transition from Operator to Warrior. A placeholder in game development serves the purpose of both being a work-in-progress name/feature, as well as getting the point of said name/feature across to the coders and designers so they can do their jobs more effectively. Once everything is finalized, the placeholder may either be kept or changed depending both on developer intention as well as in-game context.

That's reasonable. Even so though, it strikes me as slightly odd that some random people on Earth know the nature of the Tenno, civilians or otherwise. Sure that information was probably stored in the Tower there, but I would think that a secret like what we are would be better kept than that. 

 

Also even though I know I did nothing wrong in this thread I still always get nervous when a Moderator comments on my threads...

Edited September 29, 2017 by Imaru

[Jeoxz]

On Prime time yesterday they fought Sentinel-looking sentient pieces. Those that Steve confirmed dropped something that you can sell in Cetus, they were killed them normally without operator.

My guess is that while Eidolon hunters in Cetus can kill and salvage those "lesser" sentients, they rely on the tower (and later on the Tenno) to fight the big tenno-warrior requiring Eidolons.

[Imaru]

5 minutes ago, Jeoxz said:

On Prime time yesterday they fought Sentinel-looking sentient pieces. Those that Steve confirmed dropped something that you can sell in Cetus, they were killed them normally without operator.

My guess is that while Eidolon hunters in Cetus can kill and salvage those "lesser" sentients, they rely on the tower (and later on the Tenno) to fight the big tenno-warrior requiring Eidolons.

That was my initial thought too, but even so, how do the residents of Cetus know about the Tenno? The Stalker was driven insane by the realization, and there's a pretty short list of who else knows the truth: Lotus (Duh), (Shadow) Stalker, Hunhow, The Queens, Teshin, The Red Veil (Or at least the higher ups), Ordis, and I think that's it. Amaryn might have some ideas of it, but it's unclear based on The Silver Grove. It would just seem strange if suddenly almost an entire faction knew about the nature of the Tenno. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by Imaru

[PrVonTuckIII]

Just a minor nitpick: Eidolon is the name of the dead Sentient whose remains are scattered across the Plains (hence, Plains of Eidolon). The things we fight at night are Teralysts and "Bombulysts" (or something like that).

[Imaru]

Just now, PrVonTuckIII said:

Just a minor nitpick: Eidolon is the name of the dead Sentient whose remains are scattered across the Plains (hence, Plains of Eidolon). The things we fight at night are Teralysts and "Bombulysts" (or something like that).

Valid point. I think that "Eidelon" was the Sentient that attacked the Tower that Cetus harvests from, in the same way that Hunhow was the Sentient who masterminded the fall of the Orokin and Natah's infiltration.

I think it's just easier for now until we have them in game to simply call them Eidelons, even if it is inaccurate. 

[PrVonTuckIII]

1 minute ago, Imaru said:

Valid point. I think that "Eidelon" was the Sentient that attacked the Tower that Cetus harvests from, in the same way that Hunhow was the Sentient who masterminded the fall of the Orokin and Natah's infiltration.

I think it's just easier for now until we have them in game to simply call them Eidelons, even if it is inaccurate. 

Fair enough. And you're correct. Eidolon is a Sentient brood-ship, like Hunhow. Quite apparently, they both had different design philosophies when it came to Fragments.

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, Imaru said:

That was my initial thought too, but even so, how do the residents of Cetus know about the Tenno? The Stalker was driven insane by the realization, and there's a pretty short list of who else knows the truth: Lotus (Duh), (Shadow) Stalker, Hunhow, The Queens, Teshin, The Red Veil (Or at least the higher ups), Ordis, and I think that's it. Amaryn might have some ideas of it, but it's unclear based on The Silver Grove. It would just seem strange if suddenly almost an entire faction knew about the nature of the Tenno. 

"They sell armor sets that actually fit the Operator, so they must know about the truth of the Tenno"

Dude, they dont know unless someone in the Ostrons says "Hey, I know you are actually a child and can get out of the Warframe" and are selling armor and weapons that just happen to fit the Operator and are useable by us (Energy weapons are a thing, remember)

Its the same situation with Baro, no way the Tenno are his only clients, Mods and weapons are things everyone uses, the trinkets? Anyone can buy an earpiece or a breather to use, Baro would, at the very least, be confused why they would buy them, but you dont question your costumers' odd choices if they are paying. (Go buy a dress in a clothing store and no one will bat an eye, they will just assume its for someone else or not question your dressing code out of politeness)

[Imaru]

43 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

"They sell armor sets that actually fit the Operator, so they must know about the truth of the Tenno"

Dude, they dont know unless someone in the Ostrons says "Hey, I know you are actually a child and can get out of the Warframe" and are selling armor and weapons that just happen to fit the Operator and are useable by us (Energy weapons are a thing, remember)

Its the same situation with Baro, no way the Tenno are his only clients, Mods and weapons are things everyone uses, the trinkets? Anyone can buy an earpiece or a breather to use, Baro would, at the very least, be confused why they would buy them, but you dont question your costumers' odd choices if they are paying. (Go buy a dress in a clothing store and no one will bat an eye, they will just assume its for someone else or not question your dressing code out of politeness)

From what DE has said they specifically tell you how to hunt and kill Teralysts. If that requires use of the Operator, they must know the truth. 

[Kaotyke]

Just now, Imaru said:

From what DE has said they specifically tell you how to hunt and kill Teralysts. If that requires use of the Operator, they must know the truth. 

Tell the Tenno how to hunt and kill the Teralysts = Knows the truth

Dude, Void energy is used as a means of transportation and batteries (Torsion beam device, Solar Rails and void key as exemples)

It would be the same as teaching someone how to use a gun: the way you hold a sniper rifle is different from a handgun.

[TARINunit9]

17 hours ago, Imaru said:

So technically this is a spoiler, but I think just about everyone knows about Zariman Kids, but still. 

Anyway, from what I've heard and seen, we will need to use our Zariman Kids and Warframe together to kill the Eidelons on the plains. How is it then, that there are non-Zariman Kids residents of Cetus who hunt the Eidelons? They said that the bomb things drop fragments so do the hunters just kill those and not worry about the big one? 

I think DE said that we will learn how to kill it from the residents, but I don't think it would make sense for non-Zariman Kids to know how to kill it. 

Just musing before the update drops and we probably get a proper response about this. 

FIFY. Zariman Kids are not Tenno in and of themselves

[Imaru]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

FIFY. Zariman Kids are not Tenno in and of themselves

Technically true. They came to be called that. I think it is a valid simplification to make though. 

[PrVonTuckIII]

6 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

FIFY. Zariman Kids are not Tenno in and of themselves

 What do you mean? Tenno was the slur given by the Orokin to the children of the Zariman.

[TARINunit9]

14 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

 What do you mean? Tenno was the slur given by the Orokin to the children of the Zariman.

By random citizens who didn't know what Tenno actually were. By your logic, Warframes are Tenno in and of themselves

19 minutes ago, Imaru said:

Technically true. They came to be called that. I think it is a valid simplification to make though. 

I disagree there. There's a reason that even DE use "Operators" instead of "Tenno" for Zariman Kids

Edited September 29, 2017 by TARINunit9

[Imaru]

2 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

By random citizens who didn't know what Tenno actually were. By your logic, Warframes are Tenno in and of themselves

No, I disagree there. There's a reason that even DE use "Operators" instead of "Tenno" for Zariman Kids

Direct quote from The Second Dream: 

Lotus:: I know. Forgive me. This is who you really are. A Tenno. More than human... but once a child like any other. What do you remember?

And from Teshin in The War Within: Follow me again, Tenno, and you will answer to my sword

Both use Tenno when referring directly to the child, not Operator.

"Operator" is the term used by Ordis because we remotely operate the Warframes. Tenno is a not subtle nod to the Zariman Ten-Zero (That is: ten-oh). I think that the use of the term Operator by the Devs is used to slightly avoid spoilers. Ordis calls you operator from the beginning of the game, while Lotus calls you Tenno. They are used interchangeably even past The Second Dream, the title used only dependant on who is addressing the player. 

[TARINunit9]

26 minutes ago, Imaru said:

Direct quote from The Second Dream: 

Lotus:: I know. Forgive me. This is who you really are. A Tenno. More than human... but once a child like any other. What do you remember?

And from Teshin in The War Within: Follow me again, Tenno, and you will answer to my sword

Both use Tenno when referring directly to the child, not Operator.

"Operator" is the term used by Ordis because we remotely operate the Warframes. Tenno is a not subtle nod to the Zariman Ten-Zero (That is: ten-oh). I think that the use of the term Operator by the Devs is used to slightly avoid spoilers. Ordis calls you operator from the beginning of the game, while Lotus calls you Tenno. They are used interchangeably even past The Second Dream, the title used only dependant on who is addressing the player. 

I counter this with a direct quote from Ordis:

"You no longer possess Transference. You no longer command the Warframes. You are no longer the Operator"

So by your own logic, if "operator" and "tenno" are interchangeable, a Zariman Child with no Warframes is not a Tenno

[PrVonTuckIII]

41 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

By random citizens who didn't know what Tenno actually were. By your logic, Warframes are Tenno in and of themselves

 Got a citation for that? As far as we know, the children had little to no contact with civilians. The title was most likely given by the scientists working on them. 

And you're wrong. The children are Operators. The Operator in conjunction to the Warframe is what we refer to as a Tenno. 

[TARINunit9]

Just now, PrVonTuckIII said:

 Got a citation for that?

The Zero-tech in the Mag Prime codex. He's got no idea what a Tenno really is, he's just looking at a Mag frame and thinking to himself "how boned are we if there's a Tenno onboard with us?" So from this we conclude that random Orokin citizens believe Warframe = Tenno (which we the players know is not true)

1 minute ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

And you're wrong. The children are Operators. The Operator in conjunction to the Warframe is what we refer to as a Tenno. 

That is exactly my argument, verbatim. So we are in agreement

[Imaru]

6 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I counter this with a direct quote from Ordis:

"You no longer possess Transference. You no longer command the Warframes. You are no longer the Operator"

So by your own logic, if "operator" and "tenno" are interchangeable, a Zariman Child with no Warframes is not a Tenno

That entire segment of the quest though may or may not have physically happened though. It is possible, even likely, that it was all a dream sequence. 

Distance is also a question. The Warframe is lost in an asteroid field near Sedna (?), and the Golden Maw segment takes place on Earth. That is a massive distance, and there was no reason for Ordis to leave and go to Earth with the Landing Craft, since the plan was for us to show up, do a thing, and leave. With the Warframe. This is supported by dialogue after the Yuvan Theater, with Ordis not understanding us talking about music. 

8 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

The Zero-tech in the Mag Prime codex. He's got no idea what a Tenno really is, he's just looking at a Mag frame and thinking to himself "how boned are we if there's a Tenno onboard with us?" So from this we conclude that random Orokin citizens believe Warframe = Tenno (which we the players know is not true)

That is exactly my argument, verbatim. So we are in agreement

The Zero-Tech Soldiers further confuse the point, because they're just normal soldiers. They don't know the nature of the Tenno. If a soldier tasked with fighting the Sentients on their turf doesn't get told what they're working with, why would random civilians know?

We're way off topic for this thread, but I think that a Tenno (or Operator) is a child from the Zariman 10-0 that is capable of Transference and controlling the Warframes. 

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Imaru said:

That entire segment of the quest though may or may not have physically happened though. It is possible, even likely, that it was all a dream sequence.

Indeed, but a sequence deliberately designed to emulate reality. Not only is it a sequence in which you see an exact replica of a mountain you had never visited prior (implying that the simulation might be accurate enoug that Ordis really does have a purge protocol) but it's one that feels on your (player character's) own beliefs of the world (implying that the player character believes "Zariman Kid minus Transference does not equal Tenno")

2 hours ago, Imaru said:

We're way off topic for this thread, but I think that a Tenno (or Operator) is a child from the Zariman 10-0 that is capable of Transference and controlling the Warframes. 

Agreed on both points.

As for

22 hours ago, Imaru said:

How is it then, that there are non-Tenno residents of Cetus who hunt the Eidelons?

Simple rule of physics states: you can break anything if you hit it hard enough. So the eidolan's immunity to guns might be purely gameplay rather than lore, i.e. invincibility phases. Maybe the plainsmen have a giant railgun turret like in Jak 3, maybe they lure it into traps, maybe the idea of a neutral zone means they hire the Grineer and Corpus to help out, maybe they just have a LOT of dakka they aren't telling us about