Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0

[BornWithTeeth]

10 minutes ago, scinut71 said:

According to the views of the Bounty Board on Cetus during Prime Time and Guest Streamer streams in the Dev build the Eidolon lens were a random reward for doing the highest level Bounty on the board. Also Gara part blueprints were a random reward for completing Bounties.

Eidolon Lens blueprint or finished?

 

Surely blueprint. A finished Eidolon Lens, to build, costs multiple Greater Lenses, which cost Forma and multiple normal lenses.  

 

In in other words, the question of "What item in the game is the single greatest pain in the taint to build?" now has a decisive answer.

[(PSN)Silenceform]

The Inner might passive from Zenurik ( 60% increased Channeling Efficiency on Melee ) has to be completely reworked, i know it was not the final version but i want to give some feedback about Channeling.

My suggestion :

• Passive renamed to Energy drain.
• Power efficiency cap is removed. (currently 80%)
• Starting from 110% increased Channeling Efficiency when unlocking it, to a maximum of 160% at max rank (110/120/130/140/150/160) .
• You no longer deal Channeling Damage when activating this passive.
• You cannot exceed the value of the Channeling Efficiency of your current rank. This means if you are at rank 2 (130% increased channeling efficiency), using a mod that increase Channeling Efficiency won't go further than 130%.

Energy gain per Melee Channeling can be an interesting idea for build enabling in general, 160% (or 3 energy back per hit) is good enough, as it work as a another way to gain energy during combat in a more active playstyle, rather than using Energy Restore consumables or having to depend on a Trinity user to restore energy quickly, and is less punishing to use mods that cost a lot of Power Efficiency (Life Strike -140% if you choose to use it at max rank).

Something related to Channeling :
If you really want to make Channeling a thing in Warframe, you will have to create more mods related to Channeling and/or buff some of the existent ones because right now builds using Channeling mods have a too little use, making them not very attractive in general, maybe if more variety of mods were usable with Channeling, the possibilities of a build enabling would be much higher, like for example a mod that increase Channeling Efficiency by 100% but reduce Channeling Damage by 50%, something like that.

That's pretty much everything i have to say, i hope this feedback will be helpful to you DE.

[Azamagon]

7 hours ago, Archwizard said:

1) Honestly, this is something I'm slightly more okay with, since we do have the option to disable nodes we've invested in; if you want the lite version, you are not bound to the heavy version. Increasing the energy cost is infinitely better than the current system of increasing the cooldown while still offering side-grades ("reduced length but increased arc") and traps ("95% chance to inflict Viral and Magnetic procs") within the tree - everything listed is purely a buff.

2) But... I do have several issues with the way the tree is presented regardless.

For instance:

3) Naramon seems a little bloated on what it actually wishes to accomplish - affinity gains, melee buffs, crit buffs, movement speed and crowd control all fall under its portfolio. All of the trees can be (primarily) summed up with one goal: Madurai destroys, Vazarin supports, Unairu protects and Zenurik casts. Naramon is harder to pin down; at best you could tie it back to how all of the skills are melee oriented, although A) the Operator can't really benefit from such skills and B) it doesn't seem to fit with Naramon's goal of "observing enemy weaknesses" as much as Madurai's "destroy everything".

4) Madurai provides very little incentive to swap back and forth between the Operator and Warframe. You have a bunch of Operator-specific damage buffs, and then two Residuals that impact the Warframe - so your playstyle is either entirely sufficient within the Operator, or a buff to your Warframe you can fire once and forget for the rest of the mission. Compare this to Zenurik's energy spheres, Unairu's debuffs, Vazarin's situational protection, or even the finishers Naramon can provoke.

5) No comments have been made towards our Second Dream Operator abilities (such as if any changes have been made to them baseline - otherwise what's new about Naramon getting a Confuse chance on the Blast when it can already do that with the ability), or how much of the tree a player who hasn't seen War Within yet is going to be able to work with without having Operator Mode. They still unlock the tree with Second Dream, right? What are they supposed to do with that lens until then, if they can't see more than 2 nodes?

Is it going to be any easier for us to get lenses in PoE? They haven't been "common" Sortie drops since the Fusion rework, and with a new (more expensive) level of lens on the way...

1) It's better, yes, but not as fun and interesting as it could be. While it's not as horrible as Focus 1.0 (those you mentioned were perfect examples), it still runs the potential of ruining an otherwise fun skilltree mechanic, which is leaving a sour taste in my mouth.
Oh well, I guess it's gonna be one of those "agreed to disagreed" kind of things with this here? :P

2) Oh, I agreed on a lot here. Actually, I'm right now sitting with an Excel-file trying to make the focus-schools fit better to their descriptions, have better balance between them etc (What am I doing with my life xD).

3) Naramon is too melee-oriented, yes. I'd like it to be more about the tactics and observation part (along with the school's description). The Void Stalker mechanic is great... except that it's ONLY for melee and that it ruins the time you can be in Void Mode's stealth, due to its energyregen penalty. Considering Naramon was said to be the "Rogue/Thief"-tree (according to DE, that is), being able to REMAIN sneaky for a long time is ... kind of important ya know?
But Naramon being a "mixed" bag, a lá the way of a sneaky ninja is at least somewhat fitting. Naramon could be summarized as "tactics", I guess? Or at least I think so. And it could certainly be a bit better at it, of course. Making it less melee-oriented could be a way to improve it, imo.

4) Madurai is also slightly unfitting its description: Its supposed to be about offense and speed, yet it has 2 charging mechanics (Rising Blast and Void Strike, with Void Strike seemingly a MUCH better version of Naramon's Void Stalker, not to mention more fitting for Naramon too)
But yes, Madurai it could be a bit more Warframe-aiding, like the other trees are.

Also, something else: You said Vazarin supports and Unairu protects. From their descriptions, I'd believe that Vazarin should protect (i.e. preventing and/or healing damage of self and others), while Unairu should be about tankiness (i.e. self-durability with a side-sprinkle of team-protection). They seem, at certain areas, a little confused with some role overlap. But, even so, they seem like functional trees at least.

5) I think those were gonna be removed (afaik, hearing from the forums at least)?
And I think lenses are gonna be added as rewards from jobs you pick up in the Ostron area, or something like that.

 

Now; Just some brainstorming ideas:

First, remove all energy-penalties. This is just unnecessary.
Non-mentioned stuff remain as they are

Naramon - The tactical ninja tree - "Your mind is your deadliest weapon"

• Residual 1 = Gain more affinity from any kill (small values, as to not break anything with farming)
• Residual 2 = Deal more damage against enemies you strike in the back, moreso for melee- and Operator attacks
• Dash 2 = Revamped: While Void Dashing and for a brief moment afterwards (like 4 or 5 seconds), you remain invisible. This transfer over to your Warframe too. Any non-melee attack breaks the stealth. Renamed: Chameleon Dash?
• Blast 1 and 2 = Both ok, imo. Maybe further increase their chances when used on the back of enemies, or if you are closer to them?
• Void Mode 1 = Change the bonus to be a plain damage boost, and for ANY attack, not just melee.
• Void Mode 2 = Also, increase movementspeed while invisible (this works for your Warframe too, when combined with the Dash 2-effect!).

Vazarin - The protective cleric tree - "I'll protect you! Just... stay still!"

• Dash 2 = Instead of removing the knockback, make it release a radial pulse when finishing the dash, a pulse which stuns caught enemies within its area
• Blast 1 = Revamped: Charge-casting VB now also spawns a barrier in the environment (pretty much exactly as Volt's Electric Shield). Obviously has some limitation (either in health, duration and/or in amount of barriers createable)
• Blast 2 = Also works for your own Warframe (if not already)
• Void Mode 1 = Also grants health for allies within X range
• Void Mode 2 = Swapped with Unairu's Void Shadow
• Waybound 2 = Swapped with Unairu's Basilisk Gaze (And renamed Crashing Tides?)

Unairu - The tanking paladin tree - "Come at me, bro!"

• Residual 1 = Counts for absorbtion-effects too (like Iron Skin etc)
• Residual 2 = Flat armor instead
• Dash 1 = Also, reduce enemy shields!
• Dash 2 = Revamped: Enemies struck by the Dash will take longer to recover from their knockdown (Renamed: Weighted/Heavy Dash?)
• Blast 2 = Revamped: VB also spawns X wisps (random shotgun pattern), which travels forward slowly. Enemies within X range of a wisp will be compelled to attack the wisps. Each wisp has limitted health and moderate duration. (The idea here is; Distraction tanking, a.k.a. decoys)
• Void Mode 1 = Swapped with Vazarin's Void Aegis. Further, when exitting Void Mode, the barrier lingers briefly at the exit location.
• Void Mode 2 = Revamped: Grants self (and allies within X range?) a protective coating (a lá Iron Skin, which would linger over to when you go back to your Warframe!), building up more protection-health the longer you remain in Void Mode. This protection does NOT prevent status, and it crumbles slowly over time.
• Waybound 2 = Swapped with Vazarin's Rejuvenating Tides (And renamed Basilisk Heart?)

Note: Had a tough time thinking of good Unairu stuff, so I gave ideas into making it feel like a sort of debuffing tank (wether tanking directly or indirectly).

Zenurik - The spellcasting magician tree - "Power overwhelming!"

• Residual 2 = Also, reduce energy-cost of Operator abilities (by 30%?)
• Blast 2 = If this works with its other upgrade (Temporal Blast) and/or if the chained blasts means it increases its cc-range potential, I have no problems. However, if it works with neither, then maybe add a 100% electric proc to the chained blasts? Seems limitted otherwise.
• Void Mode 1 = Also, electric proc? Seems limitted otherwise.

Madurai - The aggressive fighter tree - "Die! MWAHAHA!"

• Residual 1 and 2 = Both of these could maybe increase Operator damage too?
• Dash 1 = Maybe add a chance to proc?
• Dash 2 = Seems really weak. Maybe add some utility to it? Like, enemies struck by the Dash are more likely to suffer from any status effects, and the status duration is increased on them as well?
• Blast 1 = Add 100% Heat proc to the Fireball?
• Blast 2 = Lame (and the charge is unfitting of the supposed "speed" of the school). Why not simply: Enemies struck by VB suffer more damage taken from all sources? Simple, but effective.
• Void Mode 2 = While maybe not fitting the "speed"-description, at least making it more useful would be nice. Like, it works for your Warframe too, and for X attacks?

Note: Hard to think about fitting utility for Madurai. But, it's easy to say that Madurai seems the most lacking, overall.

Spent too much time on this, so I'll leave this as it is for now.

[Azamagon]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

A part of that is irreversibly tied to the fundamental mechanical philosophy of Warframe, which is basically a zero sum game. For every gain, a slap. For every step forward, half a step back. Always something to make you think 'Damn, this is almost great.'

It's intentional, in other words. I think it comes from Scott.

 

Which is a HORRIBLE mechanical philosophy, really.

[hr18]

Will miss current Zenurik/Naramon but new system seems to have less nodes to activate per school (residuals) for me...couldn't care less about operator.

Change to activation time also sounds nice. 

Just maxing those residuals and forget the rest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Kinetos]

So upgrading nodes still has a cost? We need to be able to underclock them. We don't have the option to keep multiple copies at different ranks, like mods, which should also be able to underclock, but at least they have a workaround. 

[BornWithTeeth]

29 minutes ago, Kinetos said:

So upgrading nodes still has a cost? We need to be able to underclock them. We don't have the option to keep multiple copies at different ranks, like mods, which should also be able to underclock, but at least they have a workaround. 

I refer you again to DE's crazy zero sum game mentality, where levelling up Focus means it gets more powerful but also far more punishing to actually use.

 

Also the part where every node you unlock in a Focus tree technically costs twice, one for the node and one for the node capacity.

 

Also the part where they're increasing Focus costs to dozens of millions of points.

 

Also the part where the increased energy cost can be compensated for by unlocking, maxing out, and unwinding a Zenurik passive, at a cost of however many extra millions of Focus points.

 

 

But no. If you jump through all the hoops, you can have your prize! But just so that you don't let your prize go too much to your own head, we're gonna burn it and scorch it a bit.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

16 hours ago, Zeata said:

Those crafted consumables are in such a high supply, built with easy to acquire resources it seems to be a moot point they're consumables.

But if the pads are better than the bubbles, why should I invest the few hundred thousand focus to get to the 5 energy per second when I could just use the pads for less than half the effort?

Because for a small one time investment in a focus tree you get an energy bubble that benefits all teammates, lasts 30 seconds, allows them to move out of the bubble and keep the buff for 30 seconds. Warframe is a game about mobility, and energy pads force you to stop moving for 30 secs.

As for both having similar gains... Well that is a good thing. Some people haven't unlocked operators yet or are using other focus schools.... They need an energy restore too, so energy pads have their purposes, but also have disavantages compared to the passive bubble energy from zenurik.

[TheVeiledScion]

17 hours ago, Archwizard said:

Took some notes on each of the Focus trees, so here you go:

• Each tree will require 100 capacity from the focus "Pool" up top in order to cap out, which took about 5 million focus to do, excluding the costs of nodes
• Each tree has 2 "Residuals", one of which is always the starting node, the other will be a single-node branch
  • Residuals are proc effects that are activated by entering Operator mode or using your Operator ability, and remain active for the remainder of the mission
  • Residual nodes are hexagonal
• Each tree has branches for the Void Dash, Blast (melee) and Mode (stealth crouch), respectively
  • These nodes will increase the energy cost of affected abilities in addition to the bonuses provided
  • Nodes on these branches are circular and are unlocked with the War Within
• Each tree has a branch with two "Way-bound" nodes 
  • Way-bound nodes are Operator passives that, as their capstone rank, can be "unbound" to use with any Focus school active
  • Capping (or "unbinding") the final rank of each Way-bound effect requires a "Brilliant Eidolon Shard" to unlock, in addition to 1 million Focus
  • Way-bound nodes are also hexagonal
• Once unlocked, individual nodes of the tree can be deactivated at no additional cost
• Unlocking nodes will no longer increase the cooldown of your Operator ability
• Transitioning to/from your Operator occurs more quickly, and Operators will inherit momentum from your Warframe if you switch mid-parkour
  • Operators can now slide and have new death animations
  • Ability energy is now separated from the Void Beam ammo, and features a new UI element
• Amp weapons for your Operator affect the beam attack, and can apparently be ranked up; no other information is provided
• Some of the passives available in the previous iteration of Focus will be available as Arcanes (although which have not been specified - here's hoping for Shadow Step)
• I didn't provide the growth values, because all provided values are subject to change

NARAMON

  Reveal hidden contents

Starting node (RESIDUAL):
Affinity Spike (6 ranks) - Increased Affinity from Melee kills

Branch 1 (RESIDUAL):
Power Spike (4 ranks) - Increased melee damage

Branch 2:
Executing Dash (4 ranks) - Instead of throwing enemies, Void Dash opens them to finishers and increases finisher damage taken
Surging Dash (6 ranks) - Void Dash base damage and damage radius (ie width) are increased

Branch 3:
Disorienting Blast (4 ranks) - Void Blast has a chance to Confuse enemies (a la Mind Spike, Chaos, Irradiating Disarm)
Disarming Blast (6 ranks) - Void Blast has a chance to Disarm enemies (a la Radial Disarm, Nyx's passive)

Branch 4:
Void Stalker (4 ranks) - Entering Void Mode increases melee Crit Chance (stacks a la Point Strike) over 5 sec, but this bonus diminishes over 20 sec upon exiting Void Mode
Void Hunter (4 ranks) - Enemies within range can be seen through walls while in Void Mode (a la Zenith)

Branch 5 (WAY-BOUND):
Mind Step (4 ranks + capstone) - Increased Operator movement speed (including slide speed)
Mind Sprint (4 ranks + capstone) - Increased Void Dash travel distance

VAZARIN

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Starting node (RESIDUAL):
Mending Unity (4 ranks) - Increases Affinity range

Branch 1 (RESIDUAL):
Mending Soul (4 ranks) - The next X revives after activating Operator will be instantaneous

Branch 2:
Protective Dash (4 ranks) - Void Dash grants damage immunity to allies it passes through (including the user)
Sonic Dash (4 ranks) - Instead of throwing enemies, Void Dash releases a traveling shockwave that stuns enemies

Branch 3:
Guardian Shell (6 ranks) - Void Blast can be charged to create a barrier that drains Operator energy when struck, instead of health
Guardian Blast (4 ranks) - Void Blast restores a flat amount of shields to allies struck

Branch 4:
Void Regen (4 ranks) - Void Mode periodically heals the user while active
Void Aegis (4 ranks) - Void Mode emits a protective barrier that grows to a maximum size over 5 sec

Branch 5 (WAY-BOUND):
Enduring Tides (4 ranks + capstone) - Increased Operator health pool
Rejuvenating Tides (4 ranks + capstone) - Operator regenerates health every second

UNAIRU

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Starting node (RESIDUAL):
Mirror Flare (6 ranks) - Passively reflects a percentage of taken back to attackers

Branch 1 (RESIDUAL):
Stone Skin (4 ranks) - Operator and Warframe armor are increased (stacks a la Steel Fiber)

Branch 2:
Sundering Dash (6 ranks) - Void Dash will reduce armor of enemies it passes through
Crippling Dash (4 ranks) - Void Dash will reduce damage dealt by enemies it passes through

Branch 3:
Magnetic Blast (4 ranks) - Void Blast places a personal Bullet Attractor on enemies struck for a limited period
Unairu Wisp (4 ranks) - Void Blast has a chance to summon a Wisp that can be picked up by allies to increase their Operator damage dealt

Branch 4: 
Void Shadow (4 ranks) - Void Mode grants invisibility to allies within range
Void Chrysalis (4 ranks) - While you channel Void Mode, invisible allies within range gain mitigation

Branch 5 (WAY-BOUND):
Basilisk Scales (4 ranks + capstone) - Increased Operator armor
Basilisk Gaze (4 ranks + capstone) - Increased Void Blast effect radius

ZENURIK

  Reveal hidden contents

Starting node (RESIDUAL):  
Energy Pulse (6 ranks) - Energy Orbs grant a percentage of bonus energy over (inversely affected) time

Branch 1 (RESIDUAL):
Inner Might (6 ranks) - Increased Channeling efficiency on melee attacks

Branch 2:
Energizing Dash (6 ranks) - Void Dash leaves behind a zone that grants an energy regeneration buff to allies who pass through it (a la the armor buff from Hallowed Ground) for 30 sec; players can stack the effects of multiple Zenurik users' zones at once
Lightning Dash (4 ranks) - Void Dash creates ball lightning that travels slowly and zaps nearby enemies

Branch 3:
Temporal Blast (6 ranks) - Void Blast slows enemies for a period
Voltaic Blast (4 ranks) - Void Blast chains to nearby enemies for increased damage

Branch 4:
Void Static (4 ranks) - Void Mode emits an electrical pulse on activation that deals Electrical damage in a radius
Void Singularity (4 ranks) - Void Mode pulls enemies within range towards the Operator while active

Branch 5 (WAY-BOUND):
Void Siphon (6 ranks + capstone) - Increased Operator Energy regeneration
Void Flow (6 ranks + capstone) - Increased Operator Energy capacity

MADURAI

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Starting node (RESIDUAL):
Phoenix Talons (4 ranks) - Increases all Physical damage dealt

Branch 1 (RESIDUAL):
Phoenix Spirit (4 ranks) - Increases all Elemental damage dealt

Branch 2:
Blazing Dash (6 ranks) - Void Dash leaves a trail of fire (a la Nezha) that deals Heat damage over time
Meteoric Dash (4 ranks) - Void Dash deals a flat amount of additional damage to enemies

Branch 3:
Flame Blast (4 ranks) - Void Blast shoots a Fireball that explodes after a delay period, dealing a multiple of the initial Blast's damage
Rising Blast (4 ranks) - Void Blast's base damage increases, and it can be charged for additional damage

Branch 4:
Void Radiance (4 ranks) - Temporarily Blinds enemies within range after leaving Void Mode
Void Strike (6 ranks) - Void Mode generates a buff to your Operator's next damaging attack outside of the cloak, which stacks for every second that the Operator was cloaked

Branch 5 (WAY-BOUND): 
Inner Gaze (4 ranks + capstone) - Increased Void Beam/Amp ammo capacity
Eternal Gaze (6 ranks + capstone) - Increased Void Beam/Amp reload speed

 

Thanks for doing this.

 

@[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Steve I really hope you will look at expanding Focus, and particularly the Operator, again in the future.  The different Focus schools need to actually inform Operator gameplay - as in, Operator movements and abilities - more than they do in this rework.  The current Focus schools (to which these new ability trees insufficiently align) describe five different combat roles that could be expanded into more developed gameplay. Given just how restrictive the current three abilities are, the Operators could use some additional attacks and movements that are unique to each school. 

Just to give one example, Vazarin could give Void Blast the functionality to physically counter and disarm enemies in close-quarter range, since the school is focused on countering the enemy and moving with an opponent's attacks in order to nullify them.  Alternatively, if you don't want to create new physical movements for them, you could give each school a more powerful AoE attack that is limited by some sort of Operator-specific attack counter. Sticking with Vazarin's description, this could be some sort of fancy disarm where the Operator takes enemy weapons Magneto-style and turns them on enemies within a certain radius.

I get that this isn't currently how you envision the Operators or Focus, but adding such functionality to the Operators would go a long way in improving their appeal.  After all, the Operators are supposed to have unfiltered Void powers, right? So wouldn't it make sense that they would be - at least to some degree - more powerful than the Warframes?  I know it's too late to do this for Plains of Eidolon, but please, please consider it for the future.

[letir]

Mosts of Operator's stuff look pretty bad. Weak, convoulted and costly. Additional costs for upgraded skills is totally unnecessary.

 

Judging by passives, Vazarin and Zenurik will be most useful, Madurai and Unairu will be situational for some frames/weapons, and Naramon is weakest.

[BornWithTeeth]

For the record, I am pleased that Naramon has fallen in power, in the general view. [hipster mode engage] I chose Naramon before it was known to be OP, and I'm gonna use it for the sweet hit and run melee berserker style now. [/engage]

[Kinetos]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I refer you again to DE's crazy zero sum game mentality, where levelling up Focus means it gets more powerful but also far more punishing to actually use.

I don't actually have a problem with that, assuming it is balanced and not literally just a downgrade because it costs too much, I just want to be able to choose my power level vs efficiency beyond "yes" or "no" and if I decide I don't like it at lvl 5 I can go back to lvl 4, just like with corrupted mods. 

[Kinetos]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

For the record, I am pleased that Naramon has fallen in power, in the general view. [hipster mode engage] I chose Naramon before it was known to be OP, and I'm gonna use it for the sweet hit and run melee berserker style now. [/engage]

Same 

[OniDax]

26 minutes ago, Arktourus said:

Thanks for doing this.

 

@[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Steve I really hope you will look at expanding Focus, and particularly the Operator, again in the future.  The different Focus schools need to actually inform Operator gameplay - as in, Operator movements and abilities - more than they do in this rework.  The current Focus schools (to which these new ability trees insufficiently align) describe five different combat roles that could be expanded into more developed gameplay. Given just how restrictive the current three abilities are, the Operators could use some additional attacks and movements that are unique to each school. 

Just to give one example, Vazarin could give Void Blast the functionality to physically counter and disarm enemies in close-quarter range, since the school is focused on countering the enemy and moving with an opponent's attacks in order to nullify them.  Alternatively, if you don't want to create new physical movements for them, you could give each school a more powerful AoE attack that is limited by some sort of Operator-specific attack counter. Sticking with Vazarin's description, this could be some sort of fancy disarm where the Operator takes enemy weapons Magneto-style and turns them on enemies within a certain radius.

I get that this isn't currently how you envision the Operators or Focus, but adding such functionality to the Operators would go a long way in improving their appeal.  After all, the Operators are supposed to have unfiltered Void powers, right? So wouldn't it make sense that they would be - at least to some degree - more powerful than the Warframes?  I know it's too late to do this for Plains of Eidolon, but please, please consider it for the future.

Sounds amazing to me! I would love for the Operators to feel like a sort of Void unleashed mode, with more direct school-specific abilities that make the Operators truly seem powerful on their own. I'm not a fan of the idea of constantly switching back between Warframe and Operator. I'd rather Warframe and Operator gameplay be a matter of choice. You either go with your durable Warframe with its limited powers and tried-and-true weapons, or you go with the less durable, but more powerful Operator, whose core abilities vary among the five schools. An Operator system based on that premise is one that I would be fully supportive of. This current Focus 2.0? No, not at all.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I'll try not to judge the actual composition of trees for now, but there's a few things I feel the rework fails to address or makes worse than what we currently have.

1 - Nothing really addresses the extremely slow gain of focus affinity. Sure , you get slightly better (but way more annoying to get / to build lenses), and these yellow focus powerups will give a higher bonus focus multiplier, but that doesn't change the fact you will probably still gain tiny amounts of focus after most missions.

Always hated the yellow focus orbs, they spawn outside of the combat zone, forcing you to leave you teammates and mission objectives unprotected, they don't last long enough to rank up a huge combo counter, and you often activate them at a bad moment where there's nothing to kill, essentially wasting the orb. Unless you actively farm focus in a dedicated focus group, you'll pretty much get terrible gains, finishing missions with a few hundred points of affinity. The yellow markers always sucked because they feel gamey. They have no justifications from a gameworld perspective (Why is a random orb that increaeses focus spawns in the world and they always felt arcadey to me....

2 - The actual operator mobility has not really been touched upon, asides from allowing to spam void dash more often. The biggest issue with operators was always their slow movement speed and the fact they slowly walked everywhere while warframes are bullet jumping all over the place... And it still seems to be the case. Still think an operator rework that fails to adress the fact operators are slow, cannot climb and feel sluggish is kinda missing the mark.

3 - The grind to max out those trees seems insane. Granted, it's supposed to be placeholder numbers, but the amount of focus affinity needed just to max a single tree is plain crasy as of now... Especially with the slow gains described above. What makes it insane is the fact you're double dipping for each ability you get (capacity upgrade and the ability points themselves), plus the fact most cool new abilties often have six or seven skill levels when before, all of them were basically capped at lvl 4 (Meaning even someone that had a fully maxed tree before will probably not have enough to max it again in the new iteration. All in all, unless the costs are dramatically lowered, it seems ludacris to think anyone will be able to max out multiple treess.

With the past iterations, since 90% of the stuff in these trees were useless, the slow focus gains were not much of an issue, since you only got into a tree for the passives anyway, and unlocking other nodes was a downgrade since it made these passives even longer to activate due to the increased cooldown on your void special power, but now that you're supposed to care and want to cross unlock nodes, it'll be a huge pain to actually try and max out multiple tress with the slow-&#! affinity game.

-----------------------------------

Suggestions to fix said issue:

1 - Remove capacity costs in focus trees, drop the price of abilities and upgrades so they are more accessible.

2 - Increase the amount of affinity converted by lens... I dunno the %, but let's say 3%,4%,5% would be a great start.

3 - Remove focus tree nodes with like 6-7 upgrade levels... Just spread the bonuses over 4 levels like in the old system.

4 - Double or triple base operator movement speed. That way, they would run about as fast as a warframe runs and it would feel less tedious using them for traversal. Heck, personally I would make operators always run, and would make the run button into an "Operator levitate" button, making them float above ground ghosting all over the place at really fast speeds.

 

 

[BornWithTeeth]

13 minutes ago, Kinetos said:

I don't actually have a problem with that, assuming it is balanced and not literally just a downgrade because it costs too much, I just want to be able to choose my power level vs efficiency beyond "yes" or "no" and if I decide I don't like it at lvl 5 I can go back to lvl 4, just like with corrupted mods. 

In practice, it kind of turns it into a sidegrade. It turns Void Mode from a stealth mode which you can use to sneak around into a scan mode which you drop into for a few seconds at a time to spot enemies through walls.

 

Which is crashingly, deafeningly daft, because the kind of mission where it's useful for the Operator to have wall hax is obviously a STEALTH MISSION, and they nerfed the effective duration of your STEALTH ABILITY in order to give you the vision.

[Kinetos]

7 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

In practice, it kind of turns it into a sidegrade. It turns Void Mode from a stealth mode which you can use to sneak around into a scan mode which you drop into for a few seconds at a time to spot enemies through walls.

 

Which is crashingly, deafeningly daft, because the kind of mission where it's useful for the Operator to have wall hax is obviously a STEALTH MISSION, and they nerfed the effective duration of your STEALTH ABILITY in order to give you the vision.

Yeah if the negative is too strong per rank that would be so annoying. If it is sane though, I should be able to choose my balance between sight range and duration. Without underclocking, I might be perfectly satisfied with short range long duration, but be curious to know what long range short duration might be like, but if I get it and don't like it, I'm clemmed. Now I either have no sight at all, or not enough duration. 

[BornWithTeeth]

15 minutes ago, Kinetos said:

Yeah if the negative is too strong per rank that would be so annoying. If it is sane though, I should be able to choose my balance between sight range and duration. Without underclocking, I might be perfectly satisfied with short range long duration, but be curious to know what long range short duration might be, but if I don't like it, I'm clemmed. Now I either have no sight at all, or not enough duration. 

In other words, an ability which might actually become less useful as you level it up, with no way to undo it.

 

 

I will wait patiently for someone to say that this is good, solid, considered game design.

 

 

It's stuff like this which annoys me about DE's mechanical design sometimes. 'That ability is strong, better balance it with something, give it increased energy consumption.' Yeah, sure, except that energy is duration, and you just gave this ability an 'upgrade' which fundamentally changed how it works and what role it fulfills, in a binary fashion, i.e. it's on or off, no tuning, no backsies. 

No consideration as to how the systems interact. Just 'that's powerful, better give it a drawback.' It's not even powerful. It replicates what you can do with a piece of gear wheel equipment.

[phoenix1992]

10 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I will wait patiently for someone to say that this is good, solid, considered game design.

 

This is a good solid considered game design.

*what do you mean animal instincts exists, which renders most of the exercise null?*

[BornWithTeeth]

7 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

This is a good solid considered game design.

*what do you mean animal instincts exists, which renders most of the exercise null?*

Synthesis Scanners? What? Who added these to the game? They've been available since when?!

 

I mean, Jesus. People around here get down on their knees and weep and pray, burning Nitain incense at the altar of Vacuum, but Animal Instincts is a much more important sentinel mod. Far more tactically useful.

[letir]

Another important point - Operator damage. It going to fall pretty fast against anything serious. They need Finisher damage type, and some part of damage should be HP%-based

[uscoastguard]

I'm ready for the plains! See ya'll next week! 

 

[phoenix1992]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Synthesis Scanners? What? Who added these to the game? They've been available since when?!

 

I mean, Jesus. People around here get down on their knees and weep and pray, burning Nitain incense at the altar of Vacuum, but Animal Instincts is a much more important sentinel mod. Far more tactically useful.

And is not used only on sentinels. 
I mean I get it - Kubrow/Kawat AI is suicidal, but them Smeeta buffs.

[DatDarkOne]

26 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

And is not used only on sentinels. 
I mean I get it - Kubrow/Kawat AI is suicidal, but them Smeeta buffs.

I luvs my Adarza.  I named him Bagheera cause it just fits.  Looking forward to using him more in the Plains.  Should be very interesting.  He will be the bane of all Grineer.  Together with Ivara, we shall both hunt and explore until they fear us.  We will be the ghosts that haunt them both in the day and at night.  

Come join us fellow Tenno in bringing fear to our enemies in the Plains.  Mwuahahahahahaha.

[phoenix1992]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

I luvs my Adarza.  I named him Bagheera cause it just fits.  Looking forward to using him more in the Plains.  Should be very interesting.  He will be the bane of all Grineer.  Together with Ivara, we shall both hunt and explore until they fear us.  We will be the ghosts that haunt them both in the day and at night.  

Come join us fellow Tenno in bringing fear to our enemies in the Plains.  Mwuahahahahahaha.

Ok, have fun, prowling. 
Meanwhile me an @BornWithTeeth will wonder where are the enemies, due to extensive BBQ sessions with Ember.