Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0

[TaylorsContraction]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Naramon:

 

We will go over an example of a new Naramon combat scenario:

Your Banshee is under heavy Corpus fire - a barrage of Supra projectiles are coming toward you. As a Naramon Tenno, you engage Transference and enter Operator Mode and Void Blast an enemy with a Disarming Blast. Your beam has a high chance to disarm all enemies unlucky enough to be caught in its path! You return to your Warframe and make quick work of the now weaponless enemies. 

 and if your beam doesn't disarm that tech, say goodbye. The smarter thing to do in this scenario is sonic boom the tech, then kill it while it's down. Instead of giving us a cheesy disarm that you refuse to make 100% effective because it's so OP, how about just make it JAM WEAPONS FOR A FEW SECONDS? That's guaranteed breathing room right there DE, and it's not OP that the enemies are now disarmed permanently.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Just now, ZinGrin said:

So assuming you have all trees maxed & enough pool to have everything active, will the new trees require more or less focus than it currently takes now?

Same amount, but new lenses that can earn you Focus even faster.

[Riccoshot]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Zenurik:

Focus 2.0 currently has a placeable party-wide energy buff in Zenurik that stacks with other Zenurik users - think of it like an area-of-effect energy restore consumable that Void Dashing can create. We will follow up in the Update notes about other areas of Energy gain.
 

We will go over an example of a new Zenurik combat scenario: Your Mesa is going to work, protecting your defense point from hordes of Grineer. Suddenly, your Frame runs out of energy! With no Energy Restores equipped you quickly switch to your Operator and Void Dash onto your objective.This creates a bubble where you land in which you and your teammates can charge up quickly to 'Make some Peace'.

Here's my combat scenario: My Mesa is going to work, protecting my defense point from hordes of Grineer. Suddenly, my Frame runs out of energy! With with Energy Restores equipped (because i'm not that braindead yet), i spam (you don't like anything spam related right?) 4 pads via hotkey in a split-second, almost filling entire energy bar (with P. Flow) instead of doing unnecessary long switches and actions (unless you actually made all operator animation less wonky and almost instant (hello client-side Transference), did you?).

Stick with any kind of sidegrades of current passive while keeping it a passive, seriously.

________________________

Other stuff seems decent/alrightish.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

I like the "cost" aspect of those passives now, making it a risk to use it instead of just having it on all the time without any drawback. I hope the actual power of the regen has been reduced as well, or at least not given a super long duration.
I'm reminded of the Acolyte mods, which also require certain criteria to work for a limited duration, but unlike them the new Focus abilities don't have an objectively superior alternative in the form of normal mods that renders them unused.

Can't wait to see the numbers. Hoping for a good balance that doesn't allow for easy upkeep in any situation.

[Valdr_Hrafn]

I'm a bit confused as to why Unairu grants stealth. I feel it doesn't fit the thematic like the unyielding mountain with it's unstoppable landslides does.

[Punchedface]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Residual: Channeling Efficiency: A Residual effect that grants you up to 50% more Channeling Efficiency on Melee.

Don't really think this will entice people to commit to channeling builds. If you add more gimmicks like a decent bonus chance of Energy Orb drop on channeling kill or free channeling attacks for 4 seconds, then maybe. But otherwise, melee channel is like voluntary parasitic eximus half the time

[Hobzor]

Probably pointless and may belong in Feedback but whatever.

I'd think building the passives and residuals around the core theme/idea of each school would be obvious, so...

Madurai: Engage the Enemy = Attack speed, damage and status procs. Maybe mobility.

Naramon: Know the Enemy = Reveal weak points, give bonuses against fully scanned enemies. Stealth since it was there to begin with and fits.

Vazarin: Counter the Enemy = Damage deflection/reflection, health/shield regen, instant revives.

Unairu: Outlast the Enemy = Health, shields and armor buffs. Status resistance and/or reduction of negative status duration.

Zenurik: Dominate the Enemy = Buff power stats (strength, range, duration and efficiency). Energy regen.

[BornWithTeeth]

All I can say is that I really, really hope that DE are in fact sitting on totally reworked Operator movement mechanics, and are looking at the thread thinking "Ok, maybe we should have opened with that."

[phoenix1992]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

All I can say is that I really, really hope that DE are in fact sitting on totally reworked Operator movement mechanics, and are looking at the thread thinking "Ok, maybe we should have opened with that."

Inb4 PoE comes out with postponed Focus rework.

In all seriousness though - with the hellish track record they have considering implementing new systems - wasn't it about time to consider feedback when the update cycle started, not when it is most likely a week or two away from release?

[Kinetos]

Unairu and Madurai get stealth stuff? I thought Naramon was Rogue?

 

This is more confusing than it is answering questions...

I was hoping there would be more detail.

 

Appreciate getting lenses uninstalled though.

[KIREEK]

Elemental damage as madurai? Combine focus trees into deadly combos? i'm in

[PsiWarp]

About the Zenurik Void Dash energy bubble.

It's sounding like Energy Surge in our current Focus 1.0, where you and your allies have to stand inside the bubble to get energy per second.

Considering the complaints about this not adhering to Warframe's high mobility fast-paced gameplay design, perhaps consider changing it into "create a bubble that grants players an energy recharge buff, restoring X energy per second for Y seconds"? The coding can be similar to Octavia's Inspiration passive, but I'd expect the energy regen per second to be higher than 1 per second, especially with Focus investment into the Active ;)

[Stenu]

hmmm yep , we totaly need to change this game name.  to  WarKiddos or  Spacekids with Fancy suits.  i Realy don't like wher this great game is headed now.

Less on Warframe  and allot more Kiddos -_- 

I do not even want to comment on Focus changes,  It's just a mistake and ppl see this.

We just want to have fun and Play Warframe in Warframes no space kids.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

Great! Just a few things, it would fit more if you switched the Unairu AMD Naramon Actives, and instead of complete damage immunity, try damage reduction or healing over time.

[Brasten]

5 minutes ago, Hobzor said:

Probably pointless and may belong in Feedback but whatever.

I'd think building the passives and residuals around the core theme/idea of each school would be obvious, so...

Madurai: Engage the Enemy = Attack speed, damage and status procs. Maybe mobility.

Naramon: Know the Enemy = Reveal weak points, give bonuses against fully scanned enemies. Stealth since it was there to begin with and fits.

Vazarin: Counter the Enemy = Damage deflection/reflection, health/shield regen, instant revives.

Unairu: Outlast the Enemy = Health, shields and armor buffs. Status resistance and/or reduction of negative status duration.

Zenurik: Dominate the Enemy = Buff power stats (strength, range, duration and efficiency). Energy regen.

That actually reads like Game Design to an established theme. 

[Kaotis]

Rhino changes into operator to give saryn invulnerability then uses stomp...ok  if you truly believe the vast majority of players won't just use stomp then just revive the for sure bleeding saryn then don't read any more....

This focus 2.0 looks more like a remastered focus 1.0 with some more thought into the identities of each school but still ...i don't see any particular reason why to use the focus if it's not for the pasives and in a fast paced game what players want most of all is to be blocked for 1~2 seconds to get out of their frames either void dash or go stealth for x seconds to activate effect then go back to the frame to shoot/stab/etc the enemy...(insert the universal god here also just to stab the corpse a bit more) the word not worth comes to mind. 

Sincerely i don't see this changes as necessary nor useful (sure meta will change a bit coz you removed some hard used pasives but same would happen if you  put for example vacuum on the kawats that had a bit more range than sentinels) but if the goal was to empower the operators and not the frames... Don't fcking put pasives for frames and keep everything for operator  it's just contradictory to the intentions you guys said you had.

Tx for your time telling us about this changes but i sincerely hope this version of focus 2.0 gets the hammer before launch ...the 3rd one is the luky one .

[Yargami]

1 hour ago, AandOE said:

Here's to hoping that Vazarin still has healing pulses, or something similar~~

   I haven't heard anything about changing the actual focus abilities, so Vazarin probably still has that.

[Hobzor]

I'd kinda like to see a Operator Rank system (Kubrow and Kavats have one!) or tie something to Mastery Rank that gives the Operator unlockable skills that affect mobility among other things (after a general improvement to their mobility). Something like the flying skills of Age of Wushu.

[Pendragon1951]

My only concern with all this is the possibility of having to use the operator on different missions, as oppose to having the option not to, because right now, for myself, the things the Operator is going to do seem redundant which other Warframes, more powerful and more well protected, can already do. If you can make my Operator with the same agility and survivability as my Warframe then sure why not. Right now all they do is Void dash(which Volt can go longer and faster), Void Blast (which any number of Warframes have in different forms) and Void mode(which Ivara, Loki and Limbo can do pretty much a whole mission). I do hope they are enhanced to a point of being practical to use instead of a Warframe if I choose to use them as oppose to having to shift back and forth because of getting one shotted by the new Grineer.

[tnccs215]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Hey hey, you remember my point about the Vaykor Sydon, and how its passive is literally useless?

 

That kind of mechanical design just surfaced again.

 

 

Also, hey hey tnccs215, you know why the figure 8 makes me think of flowers? It's because it's two loops.

Priceless, freaking priceless. 

[Gene_Freak]

Conceptually, having a system that takes advantage of bouncing between your frame and operator isn't a bad idea. The biggest problem there is that playing as the operator is a genuinely miserable experience. If the operator's gameplay was its own completely unrelated game I would still think it was awkward and clumsy, but having the fluid, relentless frame gameplay to contrast it with makes it feel so much worse. The operator needs to have mobility that can rival a frame - maybe not the exact same slides and jumps, but something that can allow an operator to move rapidly and freely. Ghostly flying? Tribes-y jetting and skiing? Something more practical than trying to spam void dash, at least.

One worrying thing about the changes, Zen in particular, is this theme of slowing or stopping the action in order to set up something with your operator. Having the Zen energy field move with you is one good example repeatedly given so far of how that in particular could be improved, but still, the examples given seem to be situations where the solution of "dive away while firing a gun" would be both faster and more effective. And this is, after all, a game where "faster and more effective" is practically the subtitle :)

I feel like Parkour 2.0 is the best example of a Warframe update that nailed it. DE took a clunky, unintuitive system and made it one of the strongest points of the game. I believe they can do the same thing here, and I really hope they can turn playing with the operator into something fun and unique! :D

 

Other smaller points:

-Energy regeneration should probably be looked at, in general. The Zen passive was a band-aid, and with that torn off I'd like to see a greater variety of ways for frames to regenerate - maybe different regen conditions for different frames?

-I love the idea that's been brought up here of your frame working like a specter when you're in operator mode! It would certainly give that mode more oomph :)

[Unus]

Huh, interesting to read, but terrifying to look at the comments in the aftermath. Perhaps I've been so spoiled all this time energywise thanks to being a "defensive limbo" user that I don't feel the same issues others are having? That, and, I used Naramon's insanity-causer as a panic button to escape from big enemy clumps, rather then for stealthed murder or energy restoration.

[Pendragon1951]

2 minutes ago, Gene_Freak said:

Conceptually, having a system that takes advantage of bouncing between your frame and operator isn't a bad idea. The biggest problem there is that playing as the operator is a genuinely miserable experience. If the operator's gameplay was its own completely unrelated game I would still think it was awkward and clumsy, but having the fluid, relentless frame gameplay to contrast it with makes it feel so much worse. The operator needs to have mobility that can rival a frame - maybe not the exact same slides and jumps, but something that can allow an operator to move rapidly and freely. Ghostly flying? Tribes-y jetting and skiing? Something more practical than trying to spam void dash, at least.

One worrying thing about the changes, Zen in particular, is this theme of slowing or stopping the action in order to set up something with your operator. Having the Zen energy field move with you is one good example repeatedly given so far of how that in particular could be improved, but still, the examples given seem to be situations where the solution of "dive away while firing a gun" would be both faster and more effective. And this is, after all, a game where "faster and more effective" is practically the subtitle :)

I feel like Parkour 2.0 is the best example of a Warframe update that nailed it. DE took a clunky, unintuitive system and made it one of the strongest points of the game. I believe they can do the same thing here, and I really hope they can turn playing with the operator into something fun and unique! :D

 

Other smaller points:

-Energy regeneration should probably be looked at, in general. The Zen passive was a band-aid, and with that torn off I'd like to see a greater variety of ways for frames to regenerate - maybe different regen conditions for different frames?

-I love the idea that's been brought up here of your frame working like a specter when you're in operator mode! It would certainly give that mode more oomph :)

THIS!

[Archwizard]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Naramon:

We will go over an example of a new Naramon combat scenario:

Your Banshee is under heavy Corpus fire - a barrage of Supra projectiles are coming toward you. As a Naramon Tenno, you engage Transference and enter Operator Mode and Void Blast an enemy with a Disarming Blast. Your beam has a high chance to disarm all enemies unlucky enough to be caught in its path! You return to your Warframe and make quick work of the now weaponless enemies.

Next, take a look at what we're calling the 'Residual' nodes of Focus 2.0:

• Residual Starting Node: Affinity Spike. A Residual effect that grants you more affinity on Melee Kills. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.
• Residual: Melee Damage: A Residual effect that grants you up to 50% more damage on Melee Kills. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.

Madurai:

We will go over an example of a new Madurai combat scenario:

Loki—alone in the Plains—is doing as he pleases. He decides to play a bit of a trick on some Grineer Tusk units he detects nearby. By slipping into Transference his operator cloaks himself ; each second spent cloaked significantly increases the damage of the next attack. After enough sneaking, the Operator fires and the Grineer are no more.

Next, take a look at what we're calling the 'Residual' nodes of Focus 2.0:

• Residual Starting Node: Phoenix Talons. A Residual effect that grants you an increased Physical Damage. Once you activate the Operator for the first time(i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.
• Residual: Phoenix Spirit: A Residual effect that grants you increased Elemental Damage. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.

So... Naramon - the path of "Knowing the Enemy", which is characterized by pragmatic, tactical engagement and finding enemy weaknesses - gains buffs to melee attacks and a beam that disarms enemies in open combat (and according to the devstreams, likely at the cost of Shadow Step).

Meanwhile Madurai - "the path of Engage the Enemy", which is described as "swift, uncompromising onslaught" and "recklessly attacking", "vanquishing foes before they had a chance to steel themselves" - charges a buff by approaching stealthily and waiting for attack opportunities, and is the tree preferred by the trickster.

Isn't that a bit... backwards?

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Unairu:

We will go over an example of a new Unairu combat scenario:

Your Atlas is rocking out on a mobile defense mission, when suddenly you a nasty Nox comes your way! Switching to your Operator, you Void Dash through the enemy, sundering some of his armor and crippling his damage output. You remain in Void Mode near your teammates to grant them invisibility as they deal with the enemy from the safety of the shadows.

Next, take a look at what we're calling the 'Residual' nodes of Focus 2.0:

• Residual Starting Node: Mirror Flare. A Residual effect that Reflects damage back at attackers. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.
• Residual: Armor Buff: A Residual effect that grants an Armor increase for Warframes and Operators. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.

I think either I'm confused, or whoever designed this tree was. Wouldn't going into stealth counteract the mirror effect and invalidate the armor bonus?

I mean, I could understand the stealth buff going to Vazarin since it gives allies time to recover, and Unairu getting the temporary invulnerability since it allows the person with damage reflection to run into the fray and draw fire. (In fact, I'm honestly surprised I haven't heard of Unairu getting a Taunt effect.)

Right now though, it just seems like an odd overlap between Vazarin and Unairu. Is Unairu supposed to be the tanky tree or not?

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Zenurik:

Firstly - 'What about Energy Overflow'? On the public build Energy Overflow worked passively for a single player, and we are experimenting with an active, more powerful party-wide buff. Focus 2.0 currently has a placeable party-wide energy buff in Zenurik that stacks with other Zenurik users - think of it like an area-of-effect energy restore consumable that Void Dashing can create. We will follow up in the Update notes about other areas of Energy gain.

We will go over an example of a new Zenurik combat scenario:

Your Mesa is going to work, protecting your defense point from hordes of Grineer. Suddenly, your Frame runs out of energy! With no Energy Restores equipped you quickly switch to your Operator and Void Dash onto your objective.This creates a bubble where you land in which you and your teammates can charge up quickly to 'Make some Peace'.

Next, take a look at what we're calling the 'Residual' nodes of Focus 2.0:

• Residual Starting Node: Energy Pulse. A Residual effect that grants you a radial energy pickup effect for teammates. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.
• Residual: Channeling Efficiency: A Residual effect that grants you up to 50% more Channeling Efficiency on Melee. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.

While I sympathize with the people complaining that Energy Pulse is just a free Energy Restore rather than the constant regen that Energy Overflow was, and I completely agree with them that making the pickup completely stationary would be a terrible design choice in a game about fluid mobility... I should point out that Zenurik isn't completely lost, if the tree ends up focusing on other aspects of ability casting beyond just energy economy (ie Power Strength/Range/Duration buffs).

[Unus]

3 minutes ago, Gene_Freak said:

Conceptually, having a system that takes advantage of bouncing between your frame and operator isn't a bad idea. The biggest problem there is that playing as the operator is a genuinely miserable experience. If the operator's gameplay was its own completely unrelated game I would still think it was awkward and clumsy, but having the fluid, relentless frame gameplay to contrast it with makes it feel so much worse. The operator needs to have mobility that can rival a frame - maybe not the exact same slides and jumps, but something that can allow an operator to move rapidly and freely. Ghostly flying? Tribes-y jetting and skiing? Something more practical than trying to spam void dash, at least.

One worrying thing about the changes, Zen in particular, is this theme of slowing or stopping the action in order to set up something with your operator. Having the Zen energy field move with you is one good example repeatedly given so far of how that in particular could be improved, but still, the examples given seem to be situations where the solution of "dive away while firing a gun" would be both faster and more effective. And this is, after all, a game where "faster and more effective" is practically the subtitle :)

I feel like Parkour 2.0 is the best example of a Warframe update that nailed it. DE took a clunky, unintuitive system and made it one of the strongest points of the game. I believe they can do the same thing here, and I really hope they can turn playing with the operator into something fun and unique! :D

 

Other smaller points:

-Energy regeneration should probably be looked at, in general. The Zen passive was a band-aid, and with that torn off I'd like to see a greater variety of ways for frames to regenerate - maybe different regen conditions for different frames?

-I love the idea that's been brought up here of your frame working like a specter when you're in operator mode! It would certainly give that mode more oomph :)

OH! I think you might be onto something with that first bit. . . I wonder if we could give our Operators a more primitive and clunky exoskeleton of sorts, still easy to break, but, just effective enough to augment the Operator's physique for some more fluid movement?