Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0


[DE]Rebecca

Recommended Posts

I'm liking these ideas. The only thing I would have to request is that you guys just please take the channeling passive out. Channeling needs some type of rework itself as it stands. And honestly with the zenurik passives in this post that grants 50% more physical or elemental damage, it pretty much renders the channeling passive useless as it still costs energy to use.

I'd ask not to fix it by nerfing or changing the zenurik passives to compensate but by reworking channeling so that it's worth using period.

Perhaps make channeling an exclusively operator triggered ability to enhance the operators void abilities and survivability even further when activating channeling for a set duration. Replacing the current energy drain consequence with a transference cool down as the consequence as the operator would need to recover for a period from going all "super saiyan." The mods we currently have for channeling can be looked at, reimagined and worked into the active passives for each school for both warframe and operator.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This entire thread is full of complaining and whining and it is hilarious.

I can't wait for DE to change focus honestly.  It was a really dumb system that didn't anything but double-tapping 5 and nothing else.

Also, if you're worried about mobility and the Operator powers?  Don't use them.

Nothing, read, nothing keeps you from playing without these systems.  We had good builds and energy efficient builds before Focus came along.  If you have builds that are dependent on having a certain Focus School, then you're already in trouble.

You don't have to use these.  Rebecca's scenarios are just ideas on how you could use these new schools and powers, but they aren't hard and fast.

Learn to adapt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Exactly.  I can see it right now.

Imagine you're a Loki and you come up to a group a enemies.  You think "This is a prefect chance for me to go into operator mode and activate this power..." and WHOOSHHHHHH  The rest of the team has ran past you, killed everything you were looking at, and is now 50m up the hallways while you're still crawling around in operator mode."

 

All of those fancy strategies sound so-so, but no one is going to do them.  They take too long.  They generally need synergy with a teammate that isn't going to stand around while you spend 20 seconds in operator mode.  No one is going to do it.  Operator mode sucks and until DE fixes it, everyone is going to hate this.

Then don't use it.  That's literally the easiest solution there.

I mean if you're doing a rescue or an exterminate you're not usually using your 5 anyhow.  So it's not a big deal.

But if I'm solo or running with a teammate I can communicate with, I might actually use this combination/power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

You do realize that’s your own opinion right? I personally love Operator mode and is glad DE is giving it more love. 

Completely agree. I like the depth of operator mode. It keeps evolving and it will continue to evolve. Operators are basically super heroes with boundless power, and warframes are their swiss army knives of death. Love it! Plz just make energy regen a passive and have innate vacuum, and alot of issues will be fixed right there. Ty DE!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Keep thinking that.

The only time Operator mode has been absolutely mandatory are on mechanics specifically designed around them (Kuva, Harrow, etc).  In your standard mission runs, it's never absolutely necessary to use them.  Do they offer nice bumps and boosts?  Sure.

But never mandatory.  DE is not likely to change that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thought I'd provide my opinion on these possible changes.

Before I start, I would like to say that everything I have written, while rather harsh at times, I consider to be constructive criticism, for better or for worse. I hope everyone else sees it that way as well. Thank you.

First things first. I hope the Devs are aware that all these Residual things they're thinking of adding, the community will use them by popping out of their Warframe as soon as they've loaded in, in order to immediately gain the buff(s) for the entire mission.

Naramon: 

  • Disarm is pretty useful, and without Loki or Nyx, (I main Nyx heavily, so this is kinda useless for me) this could be a semi-useful ability.
  • Affinity Spike is something I would use, although it would depend quite heavily on how much Affinity you get. Besides that, I thought one of the reasons of the Plains was to use Primaries and Secondaries more often. Kinda useless unless you wanna go melee a ton.
  • Melee Damage is very useful. I could see this being used a lot.

Zenurik: 

  • NRG Overflow 2.0 I could see as pretty useful. Unless you plan on having us stand in one spot for energy. That's kinda stupid, at least from my perspective. (Although I would gladly agree to this if it meant gaining energy while using Channeled abilities.) 
  • Energy Pulse is "A Residual effect that grants you a radial energy pickup effect.". I'm sorry, I don't know what this means. Radial. So, it's gonna be in a radius around the player. Okay. Energy. We'll get energy from this. Pickup? Umm, I don't know what you mean. Is it like, Vacuum, but only for energy orbs, or what?
  • Channeling Efficiency Okay... guys, I guess this is useful... somehow. I've never met anyone who uses Channeling, and I only use it when I wanna look cool while running. I guess what I'm saying is... I don't even know what it does. But no one I've met uses it, so I'm wondering if a Rework might be in order?

Unairu: 

  • Cripple is what I've chosen to call this. Honestly, I would never use this ability. If I wasn't running Corrosive Projection, it's my own fault I can't handle him at his best, and I should be able to either survive or dodge his attacks. (Crippling the damage would be nice though.) The Void Mode, Invisibility Squad thing is pretty cool though. I just hope you guys come up with Duration and stuff for our operators too. Because 5 seconds of Invisibility helps no one.
  • Mirror Flare. For one, I thought this was Glass Frame's 3rd ability. Besides that, Brozime already pointed out the flaw in this. Once the enemies get to a really high level, the damage they put out cannot even tickle them. So unless this completely mitigates damage to me, I would never even think to use this.
  • Armor Buff. Well. I like that you said it buffed Warframes and Operators. Besides that, this will be useless as well if the amount of armor we receive from this buff is not huge. I'm talking, Nyx could benefit very well from this buff, those kinda stats. I dunno, maybe calculate this buff a little differently, or just have it affect different frames different ways. (I acknowledge that that is a ton of work. That is why I see this buff as pretty useless right now.)

Madurai: 

  • Stealth Multiplier 2.0 is a pretty decent idea. However, the problem is once again Duration. (Besides that, I could do just as well, if not better, as Ivara.) 
  • Phoenix Talons is something I would use quite often. It sounds very good, if not a little OP, as long as the buff is actually worth dumping Focus points into.
  • Phoenix Spirit is also very useful, and something I would totally run Condition Overload with. Once again, the buff would need to be substantial! 

Vazarin: 

  • Rainbow Dash is a completely worthless ability, in my opinion. I'm sorry, but you guys made Conclave for heavens sake! You of all people should know just how hard it is to actually aim for another player, and hit them! So yeah, this power is pretty terrible.
  • Mending Unity is something I would use. Something anyone would use at all times, provided the buff is something like what we get after completing the first mission in an endless Void Fissure.
  • Mending Soul could be somewhat useful, provided it does not require they player to actually run over and revive the downed teammate. Also, this would be infinitely useful if this power was always running, no matter how many times someone died. (Although, perhaps Eidolons could cancel out certain powers in order to eliminate the abuse of this ability.)

Cross Focus Unlocks seems like a good idea. I would greatly prefer to start with Madurai and still be able to get access to some of the best passives the other schools have to offer.

On this note, I would like to ask if we would be allowed to repick our focus schools when the update drops, and by chance, receive a Focus lens for them. I have not worked on Focus very much since I started this game, and when I chose my school for the first time, I was very disappointed in what I received. I would be very happy if the Lotus would allow me to switch Colleges, since it seems Unairu is not what I want to be when I grow up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Operators are basically super heroes with boundless power

Really?  Because I find operators to be weak little kids with little power that runs out quickly and who run around like they are in molasses. 

Oh, and have have the worst possible meter to display the amount of power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thoughts on this concern relevancy. Focus right now, as weak as two of the schools are, is relevant. I'd imagine a significant portion of the playerbase use their Focus right now because of how powerful it is for the rest of the mission.

Zenurik

Take, for instance, the radial energy provision for Zenurik. Your knee jerk reaction is to give it a short range, since  a large range would be too powerful, but that's the wrong way to think about it. If I'm forced to choose between discount Energize, or 50% extra damage, I'd have to choose the damage, since I, the player, gain very little from radiating energy in a small area after picking up an orb. If, however, its based around affinity, or has some magnificent range on it, then I will choose it like the altruist I am.

The same goes for a energy regen field. Currently, Energy Surge can leave a field which restores two energy per second for up to 12 seconds. This is abysmal. The player and their squad are receiving at best 24 energy, and this is after 350,000 focus points invested. Without efficiency, you can't even cast a single ability with that. I love the idea of making an area with energy regen, and I don't think size is the issue on this one. Either make the duration incredibly long, or simply remove duration from it, and allow the player to only create one field at a time. This makes an ability relevant, powerful, but balanced(in the sense of the game as a whole).

Naramon

Now, there's one thing I noticed right off the bat that bugs me. "Your beam has a high chance of disarming enemies". If the playerbase really, really wanted enemies disarmed, and they had the choice between Option A.(Loki and Nyx) or Option B.(Hundreds of thousands of focus points), many will choose Option A. Make it a 100% chance, and give it some punch-through, then more players will actually have to decide. Focus is trying to become relevant, not sledgehammered, right?

Unairu

I actually really really like what you guys presented here. Not so sure why the Paladin is providing invisibility rather than taunting, but if its effective, players will use it. The residuals are probably going to be a little tricky to balance, but the players should definitely feel tankier when playing with an Unairu user, and its buffs should either stack or be powerful in their own right. Reward people for combining abilities, don't punish us for being redundant! The armor should be additive, not multiplicative. Additionally, the damage reflect should be based on affinity range, as you might get some weird raid stacking things if it wasn't. Place it around 10% at max if you're ok with it stacking, or 50% at max if you're not. Remember, these are supposed to be powerful and relevant.

Madurai

I've got some mixed feelings around this one. Considering every person I play with chose Madurai at first, this one should be considered a gateway focus school. 50% on its damage buffs is a good number, but seeing this gives me an idea that might seem strange to some players; limit the residuals we can have equipped. If a player can just keep equipping more and more residuals, then they're overpowered in the sense that they have too many powers. D&D group, not Superman should be the goal here. Provide each school with say, five residuals, make sure they're all equally balanced, then only let us choose two to use. OR, perhaps make more significant drawbacks on the residuals then just taking longer for ghost mode to activate. Perhaps actual stat debuffs would work. So for instance, you could be a jack of all trades, and choose every residual you can, but for each one past two, the stats get lowered on all by 25%. Make choosing your focus a significant decision, and players will feel like its a more powerful system.

Vazarin

Vazarin is focus 1.0 was the baseline in my opinion, as it was balanced but also useful. And I can't stress how happy I am to see it so

Spoiler

Definition of perfect

1a :being entirely without fault or defect :flawless 
  • a perfect diamond
b :satisfying all requirements :accurate
c :corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept 
  • a perfect gentleman
d :faithfully reproducing the original; specifically :letter-perfect
e :legally valid
2:expertproficient 
  • practice makes perfect
3a :puretotal
b :lacking in no essential detail :complete
c obsolete :sane
d :absoluteunequivocal 
  • enjoys perfect happiness
e :of an extreme kind :unmitigated 
  • a perfect brat
 
  • an act of perfect foolishness
4obsolete :mature
5:of, relating to, or constituting a verb form or verbal that expresses an action or state completed at the time of speaking or at a time spoken of
6obsolete
a :certainsure
7of a musical interval :belonging to the consonances unison, fourth, fifth, and octave which retain their character when inverted and when raised or lowered by a half step become augmented or diminished
8a :sexually mature and fully differentiated 
  • a perfect insect
b :having both stamens and pistils in the same flower 
  • a perfect flower

in Focus 2.0. Void dashing into people is a little clunky, but I've seen some good ideas concerning that in this thread, such as binding it to the roll key, the same for Limbo's Rift Dash. Overall, this should remain your baseline for any future balancing.

In the end, it may seem like I have a lot of suggestions, but I'm excited to see this. A part of me will always miss getting that sweet, sweet, sweet 4 energy per second, but I know you guys will make something fantastic here. Thanks DE for being so great!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, RiouHotaru said:

The only time Operator mode has been absolutely mandatory are on mechanics specifically designed around them (Kuva, Harrow, etc).  In your standard mission runs, it's never absolutely necessary to use them.  Do they offer nice bumps and boosts?  Sure.

But never mandatory.  DE is not likely to change that.

Keep thinking that.  There is a reason why DE keeps forcing operator mode.  And not only forcing, but expanding.  DE isn't going to invest tens of thousands of manhours into operator mode and not continue to expand it and I'm betting, require it soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Troll_Logic said:

Keep thinking that.  There is a reason why DE keeps forcing operator mode.  And not only forcing, but expanding.  DE isn't going to invest tens of thousands of manhours into operator mode and not continue to expand it and I'm betting, require it soon.

They do require it for Kuva, but all you need is other people who have it and someone to taxi you and you're golden.

If you refuse to use the mechanic in the few specific situations it's intended for, the fault is entirely on you, not DE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, RiouHotaru said:

They do require it for Kuva, but all you need is other people who have it and someone to taxi you and you're golden.

If you refuse to use the mechanic in the few specific situations it's intended for, the fault is entirely on you, not DE.

What are you talking about?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Lordnight5hade said:

On this note, I would like to ask if we would be allowed to repick our focus schools when the update drops, and by chance, receive a Focus lens for them. I have not worked on Focus very much since I started this game, and when I chose my school for the first time, I was very disappointed in what I received. I would be very happy if the Lotus would allow me to switch Colleges, since it seems Unairu is not what I want to be when I grow up.

What they have announced is that the focus is refunded back to us from all the trees and nodes, while the lenses are returned to our inventory. We will get to repick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Troll_Logic said:

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about the fact that right now, there are very few mechanics that specifically require you to use Operator mode, and they are either for a quest in which Operator mode is highly thematic, or, it's for an optional resource that isn't actually necessary to play the game, Kuva.

You don't NEED the Lenses from Eidolons.  You don't NEED to use the Operator powers during normal missions.  Making them an option for players to use in a variety of situations is not in itself a bad thing.

Assuming some sort of malice on DE's part (forcing people to use a mode they don't want to use) is ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tbh, I'm more lookin forward to story elements in PoE buffing the operator on the mobility spectrum.

Operator baby mode is just so.... well.... clunky. It literally feels like swapping from playing as cyborg Usain Bolt/ Raiden to a baby Harry Potter....

For a game that's praised so much for the simple but rewarding parkour mechanic, operator mode is WAY too slow even with the whole void dash mechanic attached to it. I get the concept behind operator mode being powerful but vulnerable but being slow only makes the feature feel more like a chore than a proper utility, doubly so in a game that pretty much promotes speedy gameplay on latter tiers.

All the new focus mechanic addition is fine, if not heavily welcomed, on my book. But if the frames can do the job in a much more fun/ seamless manner then I haven't got that much more reason to play on operator mode/ swapping between them for the sake of it. If the operator is to be played as a pop-in/ out manner then it'll just turn into a 5 skill than a proper extension but staying in operator mode as is feels like a chore than anything....

The new additions are fun in concept and already makes the transition to the operator mode more applicable on real time gameplay environment for sure, and for that I thank you all devs for the effort. But again, without a properly fun operator mode to stay in and play with, it just feels like a tacked on 5 skill than anything on the long run. Which is a huge shame considering all the love and thought put in the operator mode's overall design.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Harestation said:

This rework sounds quite good and interesting so far o/.

About channeling, i wish we could toggle it. Atm when i switch to melee i attack with left click, and channeling is on E. Maintaining E with all the other stuff you've to do, like sliding etc. isn't really practical.

Capture.PNG

Esc > Options > Controls

Link to comment
Share on other sites

we got domage out the wasoo, madurai coud me so much more like :

passives= 1.reload and casting speed increased 2. 30% of damage dealt ignors armor and shields

actives= 1.void dash sweeps up enemies in its path and then groups them up and blinds them 2. void blast does a large amount of bleed damage to unaware enemies

maybe toss in some (team)life steal somewhere like, a small amount multiplied by combo counter or from damage done by void blast

 

I just feel like the words to describe maduai are: relentless and unyielding

...also , whatss the diference between  pasive and residual?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, KlutzMeister said:

...also , whatss the diference between  pasive and residual?

Pretty sure passives are able to be used cross-tree, while residuals are for when that particular tree is being used. I could be wrong, but that is what I am getting from what I have read.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, KlutzMeister said:

we got domage out the wasoo, madurai coud me so much more like :

passives= 1.reload and casting speed increased 2. 30% of damage dealt ignors armor and shields

actives= 1.void dash sweeps up enemies in its path and then groups them up and blinds them 2. void blast does a large amount of bleed damage to unaware enemies

maybe toss in some (team)life steal somewhere like, a small amount multiplied by combo counter or from damage done by void blast

 

I just feel like the words to describe maduai are: relentless and unyielding

...also , whatss the diference between  pasive and residual?

1; Those passives would be OP. Like, really OP. 2; Passives are on all the time, passively, residuals are after-effects of a trigger, in this case, using operator first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, tnccs215 said:

Eh... 

It's already Archwing. 

Now they can either force it on everything, while still making it redundant and pointless with all we have already available, or make it their own thing - and unlike Archwing, actually making it fun. 

People don't play Archwing because it's "separate". They don't play it because it's atrocious, and utterly devoid of content. 

Not simply because it's separate. 

This. There is nothing wrong with a separate, non-infantry game mode. If someone chooses not to play Archwing simply because it's separate from infantry gameplay, then, imo, that's rather petty, because that says nothing about the mechanics of the game mode in question. I don't like playing archwing because I don't think it's fun. When I play any space-based game mode, I want it to essentially be a dogfight. That's what I like in aerial vehicle gameplay, whether it's Battlefield or Battlefront. I don't find archwing fun because it's like flying a jetpack through space. I'm glad PoE will have archwing because I think that's a much better use for it, as a sort of helicopter-style gameplay. Notice, the focus is on gameplay, not whether or not the mode is separate.

My issue with Operators is that it's not fun, and I think it's not fun primarily because I don't like the movement. I don't care about going fast or not being able to do parkour (I hate parkour in Warframe anyway). I want the mechanics of crouching and Void Dashing to be better. And I'd like to be able to use some actual weapons with Operators. I don't like the void blasting. If Operators could end up being like, say, The Force Unleashed in the mechanics, I'd be very satisfied. The movement in that game wasn't particularly fast, but you had much mobility (and it wasn't Warframe-style parkour).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...