Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0

[jzillacon]

1 minute ago, Atekron said:

I don't said that Destiny own "open world", I said that DE trow out their "kingpin system"(which was also heavily inspired by Shadow War) and jump on "open world" train clearly as response to Destiny 2

Except this isn't in response to Destiny 2 at all, it's already been in development for about 7 months by now. This is clearly something DE has planed to do for a while now.

[UrielColtan]

52 minutes ago, jzillacon said:

The scenarios mentioned, with the exception of madauri which is meant to be something you do before initiating combat and unairu which is actively stealthing your team and thus protecting yourself as well, show a sequence of events that honestly can be done faster than I can reload my soma. If you're saying that you don't even have enough time for a reload I think there are more important problems at play. As for comparing it to the old operator, DE explicitly mentions that they want to encourage more active play styles. That's why frames like saryn, mag, mesa, ash etc. get nerfed like they do. Pressing one button to get your rewards forever is exactly what DE is trying to avoid with the new focus system. 

 

You can move while reloading, and use powers with certain frames, unlike with those things mentioned, you got to stay still to turn people invisible for a certain amount of time, and you have to wade around in a bubble like with a energy restore pizza, an inferior one at that. And tell me whats faster, pressing one button to reload your gun or going through a multi tap process to do so?  Something tells me you also haven't done many Kuva farms, because hitscan and getting stunlocked is a thing, and switiching to Operator to do something is a sluggish affair. Your operator is also much squishier than your reloading Warframe.

I don't get this non sequitur about Saryn and Mesa or Ash either, especially given how energy hungry they are after nerfing, they need old Zenurik more than anything. Giving Ash abilities worth using and getting rid of his cutscene ultimate, was more desired for Ash, no one honestly liked using that 4, it was just the only thing he could do above average. His 1 is useless without augment and too energy draining if you want to make it useful on a wide scale, even before the "rework", his invisibility is one of the weakest in the game, and his teleport is also too limiting and lackluster without the augment damage buff or the Arcane Trickery. We know why DE nerfs to the point of slowing the game down, they think it makes people play the game longer until they release their next big update, but thats not totally what happens, people just get bored and stop playing due to that. Being more fun will hold people's attention longer, and stuff like this Focus 2.0, ain't looking like that.

[Emolition]

9 hours ago, Biter. said:

Standing still is pretty counter-intuitive to the core gameplay of WF. Also, unless you have energy in the first place to cast some CC, standing still at high levels just means death.

Unairu doesn't sound very satisfying either. The Void Mode bonus boils down to "hold ctrl so everyone but you can have fun."

 

Unariu one sound nice to me still not sure if i gonna stick with vazarin or use unariu as that my secondary atm.  Vazarin seem harder having to dash through a player when players never stick togher and spread out to every corner of the maps.  But I love playing support  dps nukes are extreamly boring.

[Kawalorn]

PLEASE make the armor buff in Unairu a flat bonus instead of % bonus so that frames that aren't already tanky get a visible effect too.

[Gr1mjaw]

Most of these changes are gimmicky & state of zenurik is horrible, we need a passive energy regen in this game.

instead of channeling efficiency give us "energy overflow" back as a Passive or Residual, and share it among rest of the focus schools so people don`t always just use zenurik.

[Evanescent]

1 hour ago, Pendragon1951 said:

 I would rather see them as an option to use or not use no matter what mission we are doing.

That is unrelated to the improvement of the system.

In your case, yeah, don't use it. What I was saying in the post you quoted is that don't let that get in the way of people giving feedback. 

[METAHUMVN]

So can someone explain to me how this energy regen thing works? Why would I use it over just dropping a large energy pizza? Am I going to have to Void Dash everytime I want more energy? Or is it going to be passive, like it once was? 

As of now it seems like I just might abandon Zenurik as a whole and choose Unairu once PoE comes out, since it's boasting of some pretty sweet dmg reflection abilities. 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

I can't imagine Zenurik Residual Energy Pulse. It will be like: after activation your Frame will make Energy bubbles every, lets say, 1 min or what?

[Cytobel]

One of my main concerns is the unspoken promise that foes added to game (Nullifiers, Energy Leeches/Disruptors, and Scrambus') will be addressed as major concerns for the Dev team, given that Zenurik has lost it's Energy Overflow.

My understanding is that these foes were added in part (or primarily) as a responce to players having access to rapid energy regen and near limitless casting options when paired with high efficiency.  As such, the removal of the primary energy source for many 'Frames heralds a TITANIC buff to the overall power of these foes.

Am I right to suspect that these enemies will be addressed along with Focus 2.0, or will they render many 'Frames unplayable in specific maps?

If that question seems pointed, please consider how many 'Frames only survive due to the abilities they posess, rather than high Armor, Shields, or even decent Health.  Loki, Mag, and Volt come immediately to mind, but please also consider Chroma, Nidus, and Saryn.  Many 'Frames in this game posess fantastic capabilities due to the access to power Energy Overflow currently provides, and become dramatically weaker when power rationing comes back into the equation.  Look then at how potent skill cancellation or energy drain becomes, and we see the sad return of significant 'Frame inequalities.

I'm bringing up this point because I haven't heard it addressed directly as of yet, but along with the GOOD Focus 2.0 has the potential of binging to Warframe, I worry about the continued existence of old controlling elements that no longer exist to counter something we have access to now.

For the record, I run high efficiency setups.  It's how I roll.  

[Deodus]

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

[...]

Zenurik:

Firstly - 'What about Energy Overflow'? On the public build Energy Overflow worked passively for a single player, and we are experimenting with an active, more powerful party-wide buff. Focus 2.0 currently has a placeable party-wide energy buff in Zenurik that stacks with other Zenurik users - think of it like an area-of-effect energy restore consumable that Void Dashing can create. We will follow up in the Update notes about other areas of Energy gain.
 

We will go over an example of a new Zenurik combat scenario:

 

Your Mesa is going to work, protecting your defense point from hordes of Grineer. Suddenly, your Frame runs out of energy! With no Energy Restores equipped you quickly switch to your Operator and Void Dash onto your objective.This creates a bubble where you land in which you and your teammates can charge up quickly to 'Make some Peace'.

 

Next, take a look at what we're calling the 'Residual' nodes of Focus 2.0:

• Residual Starting Node: Energy Pulse. A Residual effect that grants you a radial energy pickup effect for teammates. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.
• Residual: Channeling Efficiency: A Residual effect that grants you up to 50% more Channeling Efficiency on Melee. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.

[...]

So with the new Energy Overflow we basically either use frames that require no movement and stay in the bubble or back to energy pizza spam ? I'm waiting to see it in action but it does feel like a big step back for solo players and groups that don't want to use support frames (trin/harrow).

I think it worked fine, it is (for now) a practical and useful Focus ability especially for solo players (or for groups that don't like any energy giving Warframe that are currently in the game). I thought DE wanted to remove things that would restrict player movement, imagining myself having to stay in a "bubble" instead of just having to quickly press 5 and resume my killing spree feels awkward.

We'll see!

EDIT : Anything that requires you to stay in the same spot seems counterintuitive to the PoE experience, feels like giving us a lot more space to jump, roll, sprint, fly, only to take it away by having us stay in a "bubble" to recover energy efficiently. The more I think about it the more I'm thinking about upping my 230 energy pizza stock to 400 like in the old days and completely forgetting about the Zenurik school.

[Kurambik]

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Residual Starting Node: Mirror Flare. A Residual effect that Reflects damage back at attackers. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.

@[DE]Rebecca if let's say, this gives X% damage reflection, does this mean we take (100-X)% of the received damage or do we still take the full on 100%?

[letir]

Disappointing.

OP clearly shows that you don't understand game mechanics and chemistry. All this over-complicated process aren't worth the result, and they won't be used. Not with clunky, weal Operator. Not in fast-paced, power-spawning Warframe.

And all these skills changes? Why do you ignore your own definitions of the trees?

 

So much waiting for another failure.

[kyori]

@[DE]Rebecca I am not around when the focus system first started, so I would like to know if this new focus system still requires us to wait for a few minutes before we can activate the focus power? I am not sure why is this a thing but as others had pointed out, ain't we supposed to start a mission with focus ready to go and with full energy as we did with our ammo. It doesn't make sense that we have to wait to start focus power, although the cooldown after starting it does make sense but why is there a cooldown right from the beginning?

Unairu (the new naramon) grants invisible to teammates if we stay in void mode near them... which means we cannot inflict damage on enemies with our warframe while we ourselves are invisible because we are operator in void mode. Not to say this works only in defensive missions as most missions teammates will be running all over.

Madurai - If the focus 1.0 starting cooldown is still around, then it will mean we have to wait even more before we can use this focus school power? As we need to stay in void mode to increase the damage percentage.

 

All in all, focus 1.0 can be started by simply pressing 5 for the ghost operator to activate the skills.... but now, we need the operator to actually 'do something to the required target' before the focus skill can be started. From what I see it, this is like a step back as it is more hassle now rather than the convenience it once was, to start focus power.

I suggest a stun of sort to enemies near us when we pop out our operator because with 100hp, our operator may not be even able to activate those focus power in very high level missions as they will be killed once popped out from our frame.

[BornWithTeeth]

@[DE]Rebecca

 

DE, please. You have received and are receiving a massive amount of feedback on this issue. Go through the thread and use the search function. Search for the words 'clunky', 'slow', and 'awkward'. We cannot be somehow clearer with you. We are not saying these things to be bitter or mean. We play your game. We understand your mechanics.

 

We are trying to tell you why this is a problem, and we are trying to offer suggestions on how it can be improved. We are responding (for the most part!) in good faith. Please do not just shrug this off and act like it's fine.

[Trentiel]

Operators. The thing that they have that Warframe's don't. A face and a voice. Which lends them naturally to developing a character driven experience.

Short of that though... there's a few things that Operators could do. Since after a certain point, all players have an operator. Activated by a 5th ability button. Mandatory. No exceptions, once you got it, you've got it.

SUGGESTION TIME:

Operators and their paths could fill in some mandatory roles. Energy regen and Item-Gathering has long been a driving decision behind many "mandatory" gameplay options so far. Energy Siphon was an early mandatory aura, a Trinity in every squad, and the Zenurik focus school's popularity. Vacuum as well, drove most players to use Carrier, and then Sentinels as the nearly mandatory companion choice. I think it'd be rather interesting if the 5 schools could have 5 unique approaches to these two very desirable features. Since a flat approach to either mechanic becomes boring. Zenurik gave us uninterrupted ability spam, and Vacuum is so featureless you might as well give in and set up universal vacuum. There could be a diversity of options here.

Different ways to help regain energy. Exclusive to one another. One per player, but effects the whole team. Conditional on a play style. Operators could trigger a regen period for the team and while active...

• -Building up a melee combo increases your energy regen rate, shortening the number of hits it takes to build up a combo.
• -Staying moving and moving as fast as possible (via bullet jumping etc) increases your energy regen rate.
• -Staying still in a low-light area on the map, lowers your visibility and increases your energy regen rate.
• -Creates a node that draws fire, feeding a lump energy return. Cannot be fed by player fire.
• -Allows the operator to tag / CC a series of enemies to create a chain, re-tagging the first enemy completes the chain for a large burst in energy.

Passive abilities that give different ways to help gather loot. Exclusive to one another. You can only have one per player.

• -If the player using this school picks up a mod or resources, (not ammo or orbs) all team members get it.
• -A personal boost to loot vacuum radius, stacking with sentinel vacuum. Or replacing, as the player chooses.
• -Holding alt fire, regardless of the weapon, pulls in loot in a long-distance vision cone. (not as long or wide as greedy pull mag though, I'm not suggesting a return to THAT malarkey)
• -An aura that makes all item drops gravitate to each other, forming a tidy little pile in a room or large area. Easy to pick up by any player.
• -A specialized loot radar that identifies unique loot types like rare resources, caches, rare/reinforced crates, and ayatan sculptures.

I don't know which school would get which pair of abilities. But I do think, they'd have to be fixed. No sharing these.

Personally, I would much rather see each and every frame get some unique way to regaining energy via ability synergies. Similar to Nidus. As well as some way to use their kit for loot collecting. But hey, that's 30+ frames and I could barely come up with 1 idea per focus school.

Thank you for reading this, please take the time to tell me that I'm wrong and terrible. Thank you.

[Telogor]

RIP Shadow Step, one of the few decent abilities in Focus.  +50% melee damage is nothing compared to stealth on crit.

[demminik]

Rework yeah, that's great. Two meta-schools needed to be fixed. But description of ingame situations is... I want to ask DE: did you ever play your own game? I mean somewhere further than Earth? Because on Sorties when "my Banshee is under heavy Corpus fire" she dies from two bullets if I will not be able to bullet jump out in time. You're buffing overpowered melee weapons even more saying by this "We like butt sliding meta!". When "I see Saryn is taking heavy damage" she's either dead or bulletjumping away like mad so with my operator I will definitely not be able to chase her.

Restoring energy when standing in some area? Seriously? In a game where bulletjump is main movement option? You just presented huge 2.25x2.25 kilometers Earth tile where we need to move a lot and you make energy regen that requires us to stand still? Where's the logic? It will only help those guys who do endless missions for 10+ hours with over9000 mobs level. Nothing changed for them. Literally nothing because they were standing on one spot regardless of mission type.

Armor for warframes on Sorties means nothing because scaling curve is huge and there are very small amoutn of warframes who can benefit from armor. And if they do, they can achieve it without Unairu because the amount of armor it provides is SOOOOOOOO small.

I really thought you learned something for all these years. I really hoped that you understand all the problems with Focus and game in general and try to fix them. But looks ilke you don't. You basically fixed nothing with these changes. And from your attempts it doesn't look like you will. Because it appears that the person who is responsible for game ballancing just can't do his job. This person wasn't able to ballance the game proparly in the beginning, he can't learn on his mistakes and after almost five years we still have broken game full of overpowered and unnecessary stuff.

[Khlamydia]

Here's a step by step guide to getting the players to actually want to use the Operator Mode DE:

1. Give the Warframe itself either invincibility while the player is in operator mode so players don't feel like they need to switch back to it right away to keep it alive / Alternatively if you feel the need to make it vulnerable for some reason, then give it AI code to move around on its own like a specter so that it can still attack stuff if you feel the need to leave it vulnerable to damage.

2. Give the Tenno Operator the full Parkour system. Let us jump 80 feet in the air like we do with our frames, let us run at high speed, let us spin around and do dodge rolls, and grab onto walls, and run along them, all of it. If these Tenno kids are running around with, well lets call it what it is: Space Magic, why do they need to move like normal humans at all? Currently running around as a Tenno Operator feels slow and clunky. But thats because they are following the normal rules of human movement, which every player in the game up to that point wasn't using at all. It feels bad because being in Operator Mode feels lame, because it you suddenly aren't a flying whirling space ninja of awesomeness like you had access to 5 seconds ago. Your just Fred from accounting except you can fire weak hand lasers and you can dash a bit sure, but you still feel weak and squishy and you fall over and the player just ends up feeling....... lame. <- (This is the core reason no one wants to play as the Operator. It is literally objectively worse at everything you were just doing in every single category possible)

But don't despair, What I'm telling you is constructive criticism, you have the power to make the Operator mode feel COOL, but its gonna take some serious changes. Give the operator the ability to fight the enemies you throw at the players, let it have new Tenno Only mods with its own Tenno page for customizing it or give the Tenno focus passives or whatever to turn it into a functional tool for the player to play the game. Give the Operator health, armor, speed, jumping, rolling, wall climbing, all of the things that players have within their frames and suddenly people wont hate it anymore.

[DreamsmithJane]

1 hour ago, Deodus said:

So with the new Energy Overflow we basically either use frames that require no movement and stay in the bubble or back to energy pizza spam ?

What are you talking about? Restores require you to stay near them, too, and they cost resources. In fact, while Nidus and Saryn can generate their own energy, every other source of energy other than Energy Overflow/Siphon is proximity based.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Can we get more info about Actives and Passives? Many thanks.

[Sergster]

I can't help but have a bad feeling about this. Not like I'm ever gonna touch anything operator related.

[Rhekemi]

9 hours ago, Archwizard said:

So... Naramon - the path of "Knowing the Enemy", which is characterized by pragmatic, tactical engagement and finding enemy weaknesses - gains buffs to melee attacks and a beam that disarms enemies in open combat (and according to the devstreams, likely at the cost of Shadow Step).

Meanwhile Madurai - "the path of Engage the Enemy", which is described as "swift, uncompromising onslaught" and "recklessly attacking", "vanquishing foes before they had a chance to steel themselves" - charges a buff by approaching stealthily and waiting for attack opportunities, and is the tree preferred by the trickster.

Isn't that a bit... backwards?gth/Range/Duration buffs).

3

As a Madurai, I have to agree I've always been disappointed with my tree. The new direction has only deepened that feeling and added a bit of confusion.

[SordidDreams]

Stop trying to make operator happen. It's not going to happen.

[BornWithTeeth]

20 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Stop trying to make operator happen. It's not going to happen.

Or at least, if you're determined to get people to like Operators, you have to stop ignoring the community's feedback.

 

 

DE please. I don't understand how you guys dropped the ball this badly.

[Rociel]

Guess I will just copy my reddit comment on this:
 

Well this not at all what I expected. Sure, some things are great, like Madurai becoming useful and us finally getting some party-wide effects, but still not what I would have expected.

For one, I expected that we shouldn't have to pop out operator to get the passive, they should be there at all times and none of them should be worse than what we previously had. That said, if all passives are party-wide and stack, i don't mind them being a little weaker since they are much more effective that way.

Secondly, all other effects and improvements should have focused on protecting and improving our operators, making their gameplay actually useful. For example, you would use warframe for all-rounded gameplay, higher mobility and using weapons and then you would use your operator for specific gameplay tactics that require more effective void power use.

Following focus school descriptions, I would have:
Unairu school operative have a regenerative, defensive bubble around them (much like Nyx ulti), but it shouldn't give invulnerability, but massive amounts of armor. That should make operator an effective tank for purpose of drawing enemies on him and protecting the rest of the party while they deal damage.
Madurai school operative have a void beam that deal massive damage and elemental proc of choice. Damage should scale with enemy levels and the beam should take time to charge, much like Opticor, to avoid spamming it.
Etc. Don't want to write out all schools, just giving the general idea.

To avoid operators being too OP and for them to be counter to warframe gameplay, once the operator is 'killed' during gameplay, he/she shouldn't be available for several minutes and passives also should stop working for that time. What I described should give good gameplay choices and balance out two good endgame mechanics. Operators should give the player more tactical choices and good advantages when used correctly. They shouldn't be a small annoyance required to access passive buffs.