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Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0


[DE]Rebecca

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3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Question is how do we fix operator movement? What are the specific changes that need to be made? 

Simple their speed is well below par. They move slower then sharkwings and that is going through molasses. 

This needs to be adressed.

The void dash move need to be bound to roll instead of requiring 2 button presses to pull off. 

they move speed need to be at least their current sprint speed. 

They need to be able to be used in a fluid way not move like if they where drenched in cement wearing 100 kg extra weight. Aka if i want it to go left it should be snappy not feel like the movement starts 1-2 seconds after my button presses. 

also the delay between pressing 5 and actively being able to do something needs to be removed it can reach up to 30 seconds if you are not the host and on a laggy hosts connection. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Doforcash said:

the "Once you activate the Operator for the first time" it's a litter bit confusing for me, anyone please explain for me ?

I did you probably missed it, so here. 

24 minutes ago, Fylas said:

2. It appears to be mostly a code issue. The way the passives worked before to rework to be always on the moment you enter the mission would probably require some very extensive rewrites. This would have delayed eidolon a lot as well as result in far more testing needed to make sure nothing broke. Consider the "turns on by switching to operator" a stop gap measure that allows people to get their passives running right from the start without delaying eidolon another month. Which can be corrected later on down the line when the crew is done with the major rebalances and bugfixes after release. 

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8 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Operators are REQUIRED to kill them..

We don't know that. All we know is that they will used to make them vulnerable. And we don't even know how.

8 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Kuva

Is optional, not forced. As no relevance in how the game progresses..

 

10 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Warframe is about having multiple options to defeat enemies.

And that is what Rebecca gave examples of. 

If only x feature is used to advanced story progresses then and only then is it forced.

I feel the examples that we have are not vary good examples. And there is still much we don't know. So I have given solutions to fix what we do know.

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12 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Question is how do we fix operator movement? What are the specific changes that need to be made? 

For what DE want it to be able to achieve, AND for what would make the mode more fun?

- Make deployment from the Warframe faster. As noted, why pop out of the Warframe and use Void powers to solve a problem when it is literally faster and more effective to just bullet jump?

- Make movement in general faster. People can and do sprint in combat. You know the 21 foot rule? If your pistol is holstered, and there is a hostile at 21 feet with a melee weapon, they can close that gap and hit you before you can draw and accurately fire.

- Make movement response times faster and smoother. Operators right now are not just slow, they're clunky, like playing with a couple of microseconds of lag all the time. Just let them move like mini Warframes if that's what it takes!

- We're not asking for superhuman Warframe parkour, but regular human agility would be good.

- Decouple Void Mode and Void Dash from regular Operator movement controls. Let Operators crouch and roll, and let them climb things.

- At the upper end of Operator mobility, build in some kind of Focus Void power mobility other than just Void Dash. Some kind of energy wall flow, phase glide, murder teleport, whatever. 

- Fix their weird, wooden stances and animations. (This is the one thing which DE might have already done.)

 

How would you feel about those as starting suggestions?

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11 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

To be honest, mate, I dunno.

 

It's not as if all this feedback is entirely new, and DE are being blindsided by it. People have been complaining that Operator mode is clunky and awkward to use for more than six months. Part of what I find so frustrating is the fact that if the previews are accurate, and DE are not hiding a movement upgrade, that will be final hard proof that they genuinely do not care in the slightest about feedback, at all.

I'm hoping that they understand what Dev Workshops are for, and even if they completely ignore the rest of the forums, that they at least read this.

I mean.... they did kinda change Oberon's rework at the start.

But yeah... I'm aware this is mostly wishful thinking. Frankly, I no longuer care that much. I've been waiting for 3 years for Equinox tweaks. Little to no were ever implemented. I'm used to dissapointment. With the lack of balance and all, Warframe seems to be a rather slow trainwreck where no one will get seriously injured that I enjoy watching while sipping a bit of tea.

The Focus and Operator changes in particular don't bother me too much. They are doing them with the clear intent of removing the cheesie passives - Shadow Step and Energy Overflow - so I'm pretty sure they aren't going to replace them with even more overpowered stuff. With that in mind, and judging by the saturation of tools we already have at our disposition in normal gameplay... It's probably going to be irrelevant at worst, with little chances of being actively harmful.

*shrugs*

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2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

For what DE want it to be able to achieve, AND for what would make the mode more fun?

- Make deployment from the Warframe faster. As noted, why pop out of the Warframe and use Void powers to solve a problem when it is literally faster and more effective to just bullet jump?

- Make movement in general faster. People can and do sprint in combat. You know the 21 foot rule? If your pistol is holstered, and there is a hostile at 21 feet with a melee weapon, they can close that gap and hit you before you can draw and accurately fire.

- We're not asking for superhuman Warframe parkour, but regular human agility would be good.

- Decouple Void Mode and Void Dash from regular Operator movement controls. Let Operators crouch and roll, and let them climb things.

- At the upper end of Operator mobility, build in some kind of Focus Void power mobility other than just Void Dash. Some kind of energy wall flow, phase glide, murder teleport, whatever. 

- Fix their weird, wooden stances and animations. (This is the one thing which DE might have already done.)

 

How would you feel about those as starting suggestions?

Progress! Thank you.

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There are Focus Lenses (1.25% Affinity Conversion), Greater Focus Lenses (1.75% Affinity Conversion), and now (name not final) Eidolon/Ostron Lenses (2.25% Affinity Conversion) Blueprints for this last category—requiring multiple Greater Lenses to craft—will be awarded through the Plains of Eidolon Bounty System.

Wow. Nice. So not only you completely disregarded all those people who told you that the lenses are a terrible system because it forces you into using only a few frames and weapons, and every time you don't use them you're wasting play time, now you're doubling down on the money grabbing aspect of the system. Now installing both normal AND greater lenses is a waste as they can no longer be used for upgrading.

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4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Question is how do we fix operator movement? What are the specific changes that need to be made? 

  • The operator needs to move faster. They can keep their current running speed as a walking Speed instead.
  • When they "run" they need to be able to actually cut distances, if "A child can't run that fast" is a problem, then have them Surf/Skate on Void waves as their running animation, or float like in Titania's animations as they move at a decent Speed.
  • Void Dash isn't terrible, but it consuming energy you'd rather use to defend yourself IS. Just like Warframes, Have Void Dash be completely free in exchange of caping the dashes to, say 2-3 before touching the Ground.
  • Void Mode can stay as it is, you're turning invisible and invincible, so the Speed loss is acceptable.
  • That said, Void mode and Void Dash need to be separated, Dash is a Movement option, just like bullet jump, and Mode, since it has you crouching and walking slowly would kill your momentum if you were, say, running and Dashing.
  • Rolling can be a quick Limbo-Like Dash that turns them invincible for its duration, you can have it use some energy if you're afraid it'd be spammed.
    • Alternatively, the Roll button can be the new Void Dash button.

This all said! The operator doesn't have to be faster or as fast as the Warframes, all they need to be, is not slow, not awkward, not clumzy and not clunky.

Yes, I recopilated a bunch of previous Suggestions from this thread for this.

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I'm sure this has been said a zillion times already, but the Energy Overflow change sounds horrible. It's basically just an energy pad, with all the engaging gameplay /s it brings. The whole problem is this whole "stay in one spot for long durations to recover energy!" thing.

 

Warframe is a game about mobility. Players do not want to stay in one spot. Players should not be encouraged to stay in one spot. 
The whole "players stand in one spot and spam abilities to victory" thing has been an issue for years, and this Energy Overflow concept is only going to make this even worse. In a very unengaging and unfun way, I might add.
Energy Overflow should work while the caster is moving around. If the AoE is necessary, then make that AoE centered around the caster, not the cast location.

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4 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

Wonder if all this negative feedback will delay the update even further.

Frankly, if it will improve it, it's for the best.

 

That's if they actually listen to it. Judging by previous DE comments, I'm not sure they're aware of most of the feedback here, particularly with regard to Operator movement.

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6 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

I'm hoping that they understand what Dev Workshops are for, and even if they completely ignore the rest of the forums, that they at least read this.

I mean.... they did kinda change Oberon's rework at the start.

But yeah... I'm aware this is mostly wishful thinking. Frankly, I no longuer care that much. I've been waiting for 3 years for Equinox tweaks. Little to no were ever implemented. I'm used to dissapointment. With the lack of balance and all, Warframe seems to be a rather slow trainwreck where no one will get seriously injured that I enjoy watching while sipping a bit of tea.

The Focus and Operator changes in particular don't bother me too much. They are doing them with the clear intent of removing the cheesie passives - Shadow Step and Energy Overflow - so I'm pretty sure they aren't going to replace them with even more overpowered stuff. With that in mind, and judging by the saturation of tools we already have at our disposition in normal gameplay... It's probably going to be irrelevant at worst, with little chances of being actively harmful.

*shrugs*

I am kinda in the same boat Convergence is annoying enough to me that once all lenses are unequipped from my gear i will most likely never put them back. 

If anything useful would come out of focus which i doubt i would never again put a lens on a frame either way i just put it on a melee weapon and rename it to focus stick an only use that weapon for focus gain. 

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honestly this looks and sounds like a complete fustercluck...

DE u need to put this abomination back into the oven...

srsly I hope we do NOT see this with PoE launch, becuz it is nowhere near ready, and considering how borked Focus was on its own launch, i would prefer to not have it completely wrecked and then ignored for another 2 years in this horrid state

my advice? SERIOUSLY go over the supposed 'lore' for each school, and if an ability does not match up with that said lore, then it does not belong in that school ; what i just read was all over the place and made little to no sense at all ; why spend so much time trying to develop any sense of theme ingame if you are just going to spaz out with the mechanics... =/

I picked Naramon originally becuz it was about 'knowing' and understanding the enemy, every Sun Tzu, so i liked the sound of it, but ingame what is it? invis on melee hits... how does that relate to 'knowing' the enemy? this is my problem here, becuz the lore blurbs for the schools sound great, but i really think DE could do a LOT better on how they implement them ingame... 

personally this is what i hear/see and just a vague idea of where i would have gone with the schools: 

NARAMON

This discipline focused on Knowing the Enemy, and the tacticians of Naramon believed that to truly understand a foe would confer the greatest advantage upon a warrior.

what i read - better crits and/or weakpoints and/or bonuses on scanned/ie/known enemys ; unique bonuses against each enemy type ; tactical distractions like decoys and other tricks and subterfuge ; also a smattering of defensive bonuses related to each faction and potentially even a passive dodge bonus 

what we got - invis on melee hits, 50% chance of weaker loki kit all around, and nyx confuse

------------------------

ZENURIK

They believed the clearest path to victory was to Dominate the Enemy. They sought to choke an opponent of all resources; that sheer strength could erase any resistance.

what i read - strip enemys of all abilities and shields and armor ; also disarms ; maybe some vampire effects for the energy/shield

what we got - worse bastille, energy regen, unfunctional thru wall sight

--------------------------

UNAIRU

They pushed themselves to Outlast the Enemy, to withstand all aggression without retreat. They believed that if the enemy could not match their endurance, then a battle could be won without having even commenced.

what i read - FLAT hp/armor bonuses {ie useful for all frames, not just frames with already high base stats} ; maybe also some energy bonuses ; maybe some lifesteal as well 

what we got - piddly percentage armor bonuses {ie only useful on already tanky high armor frames} ; terrible cc medusa vision

-----------------------------

VAZARIN

They trained to Counter the Enemy, and move with an opponent's attacks in order to nullify them. They maintained constant awareness in order to defend against all aggression.

what i read - percentage auto-parry melee counter-attacks and better dmg multipliers ; hp regen on bullet-jumps/dodges/rolls ; better enemy/loot radar options ; possibly also some 'thorns' effects

what we got - insta revives and some heal auras

------------------------------

MADURAI

They followed the path of Engage The Enemy. Their swift, uncompromising onslaught, holding nothing back and recklessly attacking their foes, could vanquish an opponent before he had the chance to steel himself. Speed and savagery characterized this school.

what i read - melee atk spd boosts ; fire rate boosts ; movement boosts ; etc ; maybe even something that uses your life pool to deal bonus dmg 

what we got - percentage dmg boosts ; worse version of cyclops optic beams

 

ironic that almost NONE of what i listed above exists in those trees ; but yet that is basically what they each describe in their lore blurbs... =/ 

THIS IS WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS HAD A PROBLEM WITH WITH FOCUS AND I KNOW THAT I AM NOT ALONE

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Just now, GhostLacuna said:

I am kinda in the same boat Convergence is annoying enough to me that once all lenses are unequipped from my gear i will most likely never put them back. 

If anything useful would come out of focus which i doubt i would never again put a lens on a frame either way i just put it on a melee weapon and rename it to focus stick an only use that weapon for focus gain. 

yeah. I myself baely bothered with Focus. Still have a lot of lenses laying around and I.... don't care too much.

No one does, beyond the passives.

Amazing how people don't seem to be into doing much beyond playing Warframes.

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Just now, GhostLacuna said:

What engaging gameplay? 

Convergence orbs?

i am curious to what engaging gameplay you speak off

I think he means bursting out of your 'frame to fight off a squad of Corpus Techbros with your sweet Void Blast and then dropping dead because your 'frame got shredded behind you and severed the Void link when its Neuroptics got blown right off its Chassis.

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Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

I think he means bursting out of your 'frame to fight off a squad of Corpus Techbros with your sweet Void Blast and then dropping dead because your 'frame got shredded behind you and severed the Void link when its Neuroptics got blown right off its Chassis.

Aha you mean when reality comes knocking   :D

Well yeah then same could be said about all the examples used in the OP. 

Perhaps the playtesters have to do some sorties or high level survivals for an hour or so to get a feel for how the game actually handles for veteran players. 

I mean steve looked shocked when he saw rebecca deal 26k damage with rubico and that is saying something. 

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21 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Focus 2.0 currently has a placeable party-wide energy buff in Zenurik

You are replacing perfectly working solution of pressing a button to get a constant result (while being immortal during activation) with some convoluted mess of pressing 4 buttons to get some temporary effect (while being highly fragile during activation).

Why? Twin brother of Vacuum Nerf had arrived?

Zenurik is 100% a quality of life school. Do you really need to nerf it?

PS

And that “Team effect” is a gimmick. 9X9 km map and you implement a team effect that works in 3 to 5m area? Totally worth the nerf!

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3 minutes ago, davej83 said:

to all who complain.. first try it then affter u can " ask for some tweaks " 

To all white knights :

It is more easy to change stuff before they are released on life servers, and the personal lack of interest, knowledge and investment does not mean that the same applies to everyone <3.

@tnccs215 I would totally give any solutions if there was any motivation to do any of those. The feedback sub forum is like purgatory.

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8 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

It took me outright stating that i don't think they listen during the Oberon Feedback megathread for any developers to pop in. So I will outright say it.

 

I don't think they're listening. I don't think they care what we say. Theyr'e going 'this is how it is. thank us for giving you warning.' not 'we are opening the floor for feedback.

and let's not forget the "ugh, they are never satisfied. The community always talks about the problems but never

comes up

with

SOLUTIONS!!"

@phoenix1992 I know that. I was refering to Steve own words, when talking about Oberon feedback.

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This honestly looks terrible without some numbers.

This game is about space ninjas, jumping around, being awesome, using crazy weapons... and now you are forcing us to use operators which are none of these things, forcing us to stay in a single spot for energy, and trying to make use dash around as operators which isn't really fun at all.

I still don't see a solid solution for energy heavy frames. Typically, you don't want to be standing still in one area for too long and even more so if you are a squishy frame. Zenurik being a "consumable" implies there is going to be a limit. So according to these changes, to get reliable energy, you either need to stay still, get extremely lucky with energy orb drops and arcane energize (if you even have them), or eat energy pizzas all day.

Yeah... still seems like you are trying to use a band aid to fix a severed arm.

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Besides the point that DE should have showed how the thing works and not release a confusing wall of text...

I am one of those players that doesn't perceive Operator gameplay as a problem; I was looking forward to it as an opportunity, a change of pace.

I was looking towards an Operator gameplay that could allow me to be more like...dunno Snake from MGS.

Roll, teleport through the void, go stealth behind covers, kill silently...loads of stuff actually.

Instead it seems I'm looking at a buffer, which is the most non interesting and boring way to see the operator.

The buffer is a good/awesome complimetary idea to a more fleshed out operator gameplay, not the only actual thing.

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