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Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0


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Just now, DreamsmithJane said:

Maybe it's not supposed to be the same usability, because they don't think "stop thinking about energy at all for the rest of the mission" is a healthy mechanic. As for "without a large cooldown", it works on void dashing. You think they added a large cooldown to that? I mean, it could have a cooldown, IDK. Doesn't seem likely, though. Like I said, voice your concerns, make sure they know what you're excited for or worried about or whatever else. But given how little we know at this stage, declarations of "inferior" or "useless" that I'm seeing around here are quite premature.

Yeah, I am sure you will run a Melee Channeling build tomorrow.

"stop thinking about energy at all"

Yeah, like I usually don't have to think much about Ammo or Stamina. What exactly is wrong with that? And I still won't, I will either use energy Pizza or just join the Limbo party. Seems what you want, that every caster plays Limbo all the time. Enjoy playing public in a permanently cellshaded world. You do deserve it a bit.

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I think my only real concern about operators is the flow of gameplay, which has already been voiced.

I remember from one of the devstreams or something, there was mention of a sort of tag-team idea with Warframes and their Operators, which seems to be what you're aiming for with the whole residuals and combat operator, but I think it's gonna need a lot more work to make it feel like a true part of the game rather than something glued awkwardly onto the side.

Flitting in and out of our warframes is an intriguing idea, but I think we need more interactivity, Operators directly assisting their Warframes and vice versa, some kind of way to use both at the same time or easily in tandem.  Turning our Warframe into a unique kind of specter might be nice, one that actually backs us up or jumps in front of bullets to deflect, or focus fires on targets you effectively mark in some manner.
But when I think of tag team, I sort of envision the smaller and more clever things, like Warframes being able to toss their ghost operator's out in the middle of a fight, so the player still controls the warframe while the operator performs a specific task before zapping back, or having the Operator pop out behind the Warframe and juice them up with a void beam to overload their powers.  Little cooperative options here and there to open up tactics and give you options for different kinds of enemies.

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2 hours ago, -Sztalker- said:

Also the channeling should get rework, it's just not efficient and strong enough to use.

It just doesn't have a niche. More damage isn't some super rare effect that only channeling and a small handful of other buffs can grant you. Just like the physical damage types apart from slash, if it ever wants to become useful in generic gameplay it needs a utility effect stacked on top of it. Sure, you could say that channeling destroys the corpse and is beneficial for stealth play, but apart from being a really minor advantage it doesn't help your typical run and gun type play.

Have bullets reflected by channeled blocking always stagger and open up enemies for finishers. Give channeled attacks a secondary effect based on the proportionally biggest combined elemental damage type modded. Killing enemies with primarily magnetic damage? Get energy back. A channeled blast damage kill causes an blast wave within 5 meters. Gas? The killed mob explodes into a large gas cloud that frames can pass through to receive a toxin aura, Nox style.

Channeling can be made interesting and worthwhile, but DE needs to actually be willing to expand on it.

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35 minutes ago, BlueberryIsWar said:

Yeah, I am sure you will run a Melee Channeling build tomorrow.

"stop thinking about energy at all"

Yeah, like I usually don't have to think much about Ammo or Stamina. What exactly is wrong with that? And I still won't, I will either use energy Pizza or just join the Limbo party. Seems what you want, that every caster plays Limbo all the time. Enjoy playing public in a permanently cellshaded world. You do deserve it a bit.

Where did I say anything about channeling? We all know the mods suck (except for Killing Blow), and that system is one that needs more attention.

...We don't even have stamina anymore. And if you think there's nothing wrong with never having to think about how you're using your supposedly limited resources, then why don't we just remove them all? No energy, no ammo, heck, let's get rid of health and just make everyone invulnerable! ...Of course there's something wrong with not having to think about that. How is dropping an energy restore any different from using the Zenurik 2.0 powers anyway? Still not the same as passive regeneration following you everywhere. And if people want to play Limbo, they're doing it already. As for your implication that other caster frames can't/won't be played without Energy Overflow...it's just depressing that you think so.

P.S.— Do you even know what "cellshaded" means? Cel shading has nothing to do with colour saturation. Trying to sass me...LMAO, good luck.

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On 9/29/2017 at 12:48 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Your Banshee is under heavy Corpus fire - a barrage of Supra projectiles are coming toward you. As a Naramon Tenno, you engage Transference and enter Operator Mode and Void Blast an enemy with a Disarming Blast. Your beam has a high chance to disarm all enemies unlucky enough to be caught in its path! You return to your Warframe and make quick work of the now weaponless enemies.

Your Mesa is going to work, protecting your defense point from hordes of Grineer. Suddenly, your Frame runs out of energy! With no Energy Restores equipped you quickly switch to your Operator and Void Dash onto your objective.This creates a bubble where you land in which you and your teammates can charge up quickly to 'Make some Peace'.

Your Atlas is rocking out on a mobile defense mission, when suddenly you a nasty Nox comes your way! Switching to your Operator, you Void Dash through the enemy, sundering some of his armor and crippling his damage output. You remain in Void Mode near your teammates to grant them invisibility as they deal with the enemy from the safety of the shadows.

Loki—alone in the Plains—is doing as he pleases. He decides to play a bit of a trick on some Grineer Tusk units he detects nearby. By slipping into Transference his operator cloaks himself ; each second spent cloaked significantly increases the damage of the next attack. After enough sneaking, the Operator fires and the Grineer are no more.

Your Rhino is strong, and together with the Saryn in your squad you're pummeling droves of enemies in a Survival mission. Time marches forth and so it goes, your body count climbing higher and higher. As you check out your HUD you see Saryn is taking heavy damage. With impeccable agility, you begin Transference and Void Dash through her to grant complete immunity to damage for a limited time. When you return to your Rhino, you Stomp, and the killing continues. So it goes.

 

 

 

first scenario.

Easy answer, i have the zakti, corpus don't agree with gas damage, one or 2 bullet jumps with a few volleys of zakti shots and no more corpus.

second scenario.

not paying attention to my energy pool and letting that happen is almost a myth, unless i forgot to mod for duration and efficency this is a very rare scenario to encounter plus, im most cased a normal mesa player would deactivate the ability and start using the weapons they brought in while maiking use of her 2nd and 3rd abilities, cause not sure about others but i always make sure i have a melee, primary and a secondary that will be more than capable of making the grineer remember who really owns the firepower in this area.

third scenario.

pretty sure someone just forgot that if you use your first ability with atlas you do plenty of damage and cannot be killed while using it, pretty sure that nox is about to have his day go from really bad to really ugly.

fourth scenario.

what kind of pranks are we thinking about here, pretty sure that while invisible we still have the stealth damage bonus and why wait for a damage boost just to wastye it on a group of cannon fodder, pretty sure i would just sneak up and slaughter them with stealth damage boosted gunblade fire and move on.

fith scenario.

solution is simple, use stomp, the saryn will spobably by now have everything and its relatives affected by a viral proc and then all she does is her use her 4th to apply its dot and cc effect, drop a molt to pop more spores or just apply more spores pop them rinse and repeat, rhino alive, saryn alive, infested......melted.

the drawn out switches to operator while informative for the bonues from the rework may be nice but were nowhere near bad enough to really be worth all that effort.

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7 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

We know they aren't changing the core Operator abilities like Void Dash and Void Mode, so we do kinda know how we'll fight the Eidolons with our Operators: the same way we fight Kuva Guardians. IIRC, the thing that's changing is Void Beam.

I understood that to, but in the PoE Prime time dev build the other night Rebecca ran around a little bit as the operator and then went back into her frame stating "she didn't want to ruin the combat part" so I'm expecting there to be more to it than what I'm seeing here and what I saw on Prime time. 

-maybe we will be able to stay in "dash mode" (as our "sprint") and maybe we could use our void beam at the same time, maybe time will slow down while in "void mode" idk

I just don't think we have enough information yet other than focus examples Rebecca stated from this thread. 

Edited by (XB1)RDeschain82
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2 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

It's too bad they didn't realize that the game they based the kingpin system on was an open world game, and that, therefore, it would've been a great idea and an appropriate idea to integrate their WIP kingpin system into Plains of Eidolon. Oh well...

You know maybe the Kingpin idea and how they would implement it brought about the idea for PoE.  

As for the whole everything is a copy of Destiny,  Destiny itself is just an inferior copy of Borderlands 2.  LOL

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2 hours ago, SpaceBad said:

A big question remains that I haven't seen any word on. Currently the operators have a finite pool of energy that they draw from for all actions and regenerate only with inactivity, seriously constricting their options. Any say on whether their energy or action economy will be getting a rework as well?

Sustainability is necessary for the viability of the warrior operator concept. 

   Apparently there is currently a glitch where if you play TWW questline again the operator has an ammo pool (1000 ammo by default) for the void beam, so at the very least your primary attack is separate from the blast, dash, and cloak energy pool.

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34 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You know maybe the Kingpin idea and how they would implement it brought about the idea for PoE.  

As for the whole everything is a copy of Destiny,  Destiny itself is just an inferior copy of Borderlands 2.  LOL

For the first part: yeah, I hope so, and I hope the Kingpin system does eventually factor into the landscapes. That'd be cool.

For the second part: not sure what that has to do with what I said (I know the individual I was responding to said that though).

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This is... disappointing.

Why, why, why are all the huge overhaul solutions inevitably convoluted re-hashes of what we had before? How does moving the passive buffs from triggering the Focus active to simply shifting to Operator make players more inclined to use Operator mode? It'll be convenient for players having finished TWW to get their passives earlier, but that just means Focus is more annoying to use UNTIL TWW is done. The utter lack of survivability isn't the only thing that makes Operators pointless and unattractive gameplay options...

  • Nothing you can do within reason will help them out-damage standard weapons.
  • Nothing you can do within reason will help them out-last Warframes.
  • Making certain buffs and abilities require use of the Operator isn't going to make players more enthusiastic about using them; it will make them more annoyed and frustrated when they need to in order to get what they want. It won't be a treat, it will be a chore.

MAYBE there are important details that make this revision more effective you haven't shared with us yet... my fingers are crossed. But I'm not hopeful.

To be perfectly clear, I'd be one of the first to embrace a successful integration of the Operator into Warframe's gameplay. I think the idea of gaining tremendous power partway through the game is pretty awesome. When I first got to blast Sentients on my way out of TSD, I was eager to continue kicking Sentient butt... but instead I got a contrived reset button for a shoddy bullet-sponging mechanic tacked onto an anti-climactic "major" enemy.

I also don't think it makes much sense to try for players switching between Operator and Warframe all the time... after all, power is more fun when it has drawbacks and weaknesses to go with it. Why bother with Warframes if the Operators are powerful enough to go into combat directly (and not die permanently)? The concept of a powerful-yet-frail kid was neat. The threat of Stalker invading your ship or the Grineer Queen stealing your body was grounding. It added a sense of peril that the game otherwise lacked, where all deaths felt "cheap." Making Operators a persistent presence on the battlefield takes that away again.

Focus should be more about making the WARFRAME more powerful. You initially sold us on a time-limited "super mode," and while the sound of "only once per mission" wasn't exactly attractive, it still would have been better than "floaty ghost kid with odd controls and annoying projectile attacks, after which you get the buffs you really use it for." What happened to that super mode? Why are we stacking yet another modding tree on top of our equipment mods?

Games are fun when their various mechanics play nicely together. Warframe currently feels like a Frankenstein's monster of neat-sounding concepts with half-polished execution (see: Archwing, melee combos, channeling, Focus, etc.) that don't really compliment each other. Simply adding more appropriate statistical buffs to Operators will do NOTHING to fix the awkwardness of actually controlling the Operator (see: difference in mobility, imprecision of void dash, obsolescence of void mode, narrow utility of void beam and void blast).

I don't particularly enjoy being one of the sour apples, and I hope I'm wrong about this, but it looks like more of the same.

Parkour 2.0 was good. Do more of that thing where you realized that players wanted mobility, but the current system was too clunky to use comfortably so you made it more comfortable to use instead of making them jump through a bunch of weird hoops to feel skillful about it. (The biggest remaining problem with THAT is your tilesets aren't really suited to the use of parkour - odd hitches that get you stuck abound, compatible surfaces are few and far between, etc.)

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1 hour ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Where did I say anything about channeling? We all know the mods suck (except for Killing Blow), and that system is one that needs more attention.

...We don't even have stamina anymore. And if you think there's nothing wrong with never having to think about how you're using your supposedly limited resources, then why don't we just remove them all? No energy, no ammo, heck, let's get rid of health and just make everyone invulnerable! ...Of course there's something wrong with not having to think about that. How is dropping an energy restore any different from using the Zenurik 2.0 powers anyway? Still not the same as passive regeneration following you everywhere. And if people want to play Limbo, they're doing it already. As for your implication that other caster frames can't/won't be played without Energy Overflow...it's just depressing that you think so.

P.S.— Do you even know what "cellshaded" means? Cel shading has nothing to do with colour saturation. Trying to sass me...LMAO, good luck.

Because Channeling is the proposed passive for the Zenurik Tree.

Yeah, they did remove Stamina. My point exactly. The currently strongest weapon type doesn't require anything and also conveniently restores your HP.

Immortality? I pick up caster frames all the time, seems to me they aren't immortal just because of Zenurik. Most of them are actually literally one hit kills in higher lvl content. And yeah, with all the forced synergies a lot of them will become quite a pain to use without reliable energy flow.

If energy orbs become as common as ammo drops, and like with ammo no enemy can ever take it away from us, we can talk about managing your energy.

Limbo literally draws black outlines around the characters, which I consider to be cell shading? :o

Edited by BlueberryIsWar
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11 hours ago, (PS4)OmegaSlayer said:

Besides the point that DE should have showed how the thing works and not release a confusing wall of text...

I am one of those players that doesn't perceive Operator gameplay as a problem; I was looking forward to it as an opportunity, a change of pace.

I was looking towards an Operator gameplay that could allow me to be more like...dunno Snake from MGS.

Roll, teleport through the void, go stealth behind covers, kill silently...loads of stuff actually.

Instead it seems I'm looking at a buffer, which is the most non interesting and boring way to see the operator.

The buffer is a good/awesome complimetary idea to a more fleshed out operator gameplay, not the only actual thing.

I'd rather they be more like Grey Fox, or Raiden from Metal Gear Rising Revengeance(Ya know, Ninja.), with some seamless Jojo Stand shenanigans thrown in.

 

11 hours ago, Jicematoro said:

This all said! The operator doesn't have to be faster or as fast as the Warframes, all they need to be, is not slow, not awkward, not clumzy and not clunky.

Yes, I recopilated a bunch of previous Suggestions from this thread for this.

I personally disagree on not having to be as fast as the Warframe, I won't accept any gimping of movement if they are expecting me to embrace this symbiotic relationship. Different abilities sure but nothing less as far as basic fundamentals such as primary movement, go, because as you may know, Shark Wing is not exactly fun to move around with either, and its actually faster than the operator.  Inhibited mobility for Operators is especially more glaring and problematic, given that the Warframe and Tenno fight on the same terrain.

Just portray the Tenno mobility in a different way, like having the Tenno propel themselves on void clouds, or move around like wispy ghosts or something,

 

 

 

if they want to keep up the presentation of Tenno as physically weaker, but don't nerf fluid mechanics simply for the sake of "lore" or an attempt to artificially prolong tasks, and thus time spent in the game(A misguided way to attempt doing this.), this way. Activating the Operator in and of itself is also particularly important, it has no flowmotion at present.

 

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1 minute ago, BlueberryIsWar said:

If energy orbs become as common as ammo drops, and like with ammo no enemy can ever take it away from us, we can talk about managing your energy.

It's not as common as ammo drops, but I do seem to get more than enough energy orbs to power Prowl through a whole mission solo.  Even on my low level account that doesn't have access to focus or energy pads, I find enough to fully charge up my energy bar.  Are players really spamming powers that much while having low efficiency that energy orb drops are a problem?  I'm not trying to be obtuse.  It's just that I just really don't understand how some are doing this.   

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2 hours ago, blazinvire said:

I think my only real concern about operators is the flow of gameplay, which has already been voiced.

I remember from one of the devstreams or something, there was mention of a sort of tag-team idea with Warframes and their Operators, which seems to be what you're aiming for with the whole residuals and combat operator, but I think it's gonna need a lot more work to make it feel like a true part of the game rather than something glued awkwardly onto the side.

Flitting in and out of our warframes is an intriguing idea, but I think we need more interactivity, Operators directly assisting their Warframes and vice versa, some kind of way to use both at the same time or easily in tandem.  Turning our Warframe into a unique kind of specter might be nice, one that actually backs us up or jumps in front of bullets to deflect, or focus fires on targets you effectively mark in some manner.
But when I think of tag team, I sort of envision the smaller and more clever things, like Warframes being able to toss their ghost operator's out in the middle of a fight, so the player still controls the warframe while the operator performs a specific task before zapping back, or having the Operator pop out behind the Warframe and juice them up with a void beam to overload their powers.  Little cooperative options here and there to open up tactics and give you options for different kinds of enemies.

If the operator combat became dynamic like you described, I could see myself being excited for it. Someone mentioned popping out of your WF during a bullet jump, doing a special attack and landing back as a WF.... That would be awesome. No one wants to walk out as a feeble operator for no reason, it needs to be dynamic and ADD to mobility, not take away

Edited by Hypernaut1
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21 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

It's not as common as ammo drops, but I do seem to get more than enough energy orbs to power Prowl through a whole mission solo.  Even on my low level account that doesn't have access to focus or energy pads, I find enough to fully charge up my energy bar.  Are players really spamming powers that much while having low efficiency that energy orb drops are a problem?  I'm not trying to be obtuse.  It's just that I just really don't understand how some are doing this.   

Interesting, I can hardly do that with my max fleeting+streamline Ivara.

Then again, I hardly stand around long enough for the prowl cast to steal anything and just onehit them.. how slow do you actually play missions?!

Edited by BlueberryIsWar
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2 hours ago, blazinvire said:

I think my only real concern about operators is the flow of gameplay, which has already been voiced.

I remember from one of the devstreams or something, there was mention of a sort of tag-team idea with Warframes and their Operators, which seems to be what you're aiming for with the whole residuals and combat operator, but I think it's gonna need a lot more work to make it feel like a true part of the game rather than something glued awkwardly onto the side.

Flitting in and out of our warframes is an intriguing idea, but I think we need more interactivity, Operators directly assisting their Warframes and vice versa, some kind of way to use both at the same time or easily in tandem.  Turning our Warframe into a unique kind of specter might be nice, one that actually backs us up or jumps in front of bullets to deflect, or focus fires on targets you effectively mark in some manner.
But when I think of tag team, I sort of envision the smaller and more clever things, like Warframes being able to toss their ghost operator's out in the middle of a fight, so the player still controls the warframe while the operator performs a specific task before zapping back, or having the Operator pop out behind the Warframe and juice them up with a void beam to overload their powers.  Little cooperative options here and there to open up tactics and give you options for different kinds of enemies.

DBL post

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43 minutes ago, BlueberryIsWar said:

Interesting, I can hardly do that with my max fleeting+streamline Ivara.

Then again, I hardly stand around long enough for the prowl cast to steal anything and just onehit them.. how slow do you actually play missions?!

Prowl walk speed boosted by Infiltrate using 150-199% power strength.  About the normal walking speed of frames.  It's not really how slow I'm playing the mission but more how fast I kill the enemies to get all the energy drops.  The more dead enemies the more energy orb drops.  I don't even worry about Prowl stealing from enemies.  When it happens good, but I don't depend on it.  

Edit: If I pop a energy pad at the start of the mission, I can stay topped of with energy the whole time.  Or just use Rakta Cernos.  The Alt account doesn't have either of those options so I have to kill enemies while having the highest efficiency possible to make it last.

edit 2: This is all while limiting the use of Artemis Bow.  Because energy would drain even faster.  I like to save Artemis Bow for harder/tougher enemies and Bosses

Edited by DatDarkOne
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I'm just happy we're getting this update, And i'm not SUPER worried (still a little worried) if the Focus system works "perfectly" because I don't think anything that DE has ever made something that worked out "Perfect" at release. Also usually they do a decent job at releasing those hot-fixes that usually have quite a few bug fixes. Yes, I'm a little worried that they nerfed all the focus trees, but they have not given us many numbers other than what we have seen. Also, They didn't show us the actual focus trees (other than naramon, but even then they only scrolled over a few of the actual Abilities thingies in the tree) so I am going to try to tell myself that they probably aren't as bad as everyone seems to be making them out to be. Looking at Devstream 98, Near the end of the stream Rebecca did take out the Operator for a few moments, and to me it looked like the movement had been adjusted (I don't remember Operators being able to stand like that) So they must have done something with it? I'm not sure because at this point I'm speculating, But wouldn't it make sense for an "Eidolon Hunter" to be a bit more mobile? I know they said this is a big update, and to me they have not gone into much detail on everything that is coming, Most specifically the entire Focus/Operator Stuff they seem to be adding. Did you guys know those weapons that the Operators have are going to be similar to the Zaw weapons? That what Steve had said, at the very least. I doubt it will have quite as many different parts/Options, and while they may be awful at telling us accurate release dates,(which in my experience is a bad business practice I might add) I don't think Steve would be straight up lying to us.(If DE doesn't release POE this next week, I will defiantly be sad, If it doesn't come the week after that I will be both sad and very irritated/Annoyed with them) I guess what I'm trying to say (mostly to myself, posting it here so if someone else sees it and at least somewhat agrees I'll know my thinking is actually productive) is that I think there is more to this update than what has been shown, so we should at the very least keep an open mind about what DE is doing. So, maybe I should put this part at the top of the Post but from what I understand what is coming to the game, here is a generic list with what I see as being added to the game.

 

1. The plains themselves. (The Idea of a More Open world, so I don't get annoyed with all the loading screens and will have a Very large amount of space to roam, compared to the Tile sets) This includes those Dynamic Missions, Procedurally Generated Caves, Snipers being able to be Sniper for once.

2. Cetus. Yes this is part of the Plains, but because there is more to it than "A village with non Tenno", Which was missing from the game because I like the idea of having something, or someone worth defending and fighting for as a Tenno. This is kinda its own thing but that also means the useful interactions I get with them. Creating Weapons, Foraging for Resources, to be Turned in to either crafting components. Also the Fishing, and I will find this Interesting, because once in a while I will probably get bored of making the Grineer wish they hadn't been stationed at POE. Don't forget the various Cetus Citizens that also sell Cosmetics. 

3. The Eidolon Hunting, Which also means hopefully, Some good loot. They mentioned there will be more arcanes added with this update, i think primarily for the Operator, but Who knows, maybe some for Warframes as well? Lets include, Operator Customization, because I think it kinda ties into that, but isn't as big as Focus.

4. Focus rework. The main thing people seem to be freaking about. Honestly, because this game is still technically, in Beta I kinda expected the Focus system to be changed eventually. Maybe they should have updated it sooner, but when? the War Within Would have been the most obvious time, But I don't know with the POE coming out now, that would have been a great time to do it. Before that, There was no just plain operator mode, so at that time, it wasn't really needed, and they probably would have done something that would have needed to be changed later anyway.

5. (Leaked and Kinda Ignored) Mod Sets. I have not seem much, other then the rewards screen, and a few leaked photos of it. I think they may not be the best mods, but it will be interesting if they add sets that are WORTH having on you're warframe.

6. Glass Frame. Along with the Quest that takes place in POE. 

I don't think It sounds like much, but I'm pretty sure it going to take many hours out of my life (Not doing anything anyways). 

 

So to sum up, DE, Hurry up. I'm an impatient Human Who wants his Plains NOW!

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Unless DE changes the operator way to move so the void dash can be used effectively since that game is a lot mobile around the map and the players, i see as a waste of time and effort to try to make operator in any way, usefull. Since the opertator have the worse gameplay that i ever used on any game that already played so please make it at least more fluid since we are already at 2017.

I agree totally with the guy who suggested to make void dash like the roll command on limbo.

I do not need Focus to have any strenght because of well builded frames, a lot of rivens and arcanes, so the focus for me are just a compliment.

Well.... Gonna test if is a foolish try of DE to waste resources like they did on Lunaro, but at least WF is gonna have a open-world so or change the operator to:

-Have more fluid movement since the actual is sooo badly developement;

-Get more simple commands and more sprint speed;

-Use the Focus abilities with better tracking aim.

Or else, will be a new joke.

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30 minutes ago, BlueberryIsWar said:

Because Channeling is the proposed passive for the Zenurik Tree.

Yeah, they did remove Stamina. My point exactly. The currently strongest weapon type doesn't require anything and also conveniently restores your HP.

Immortality? I pick up caster frames all the time, seems to me they aren't immortal just because of Zenurik. Most of them are actually literally one hit kills in higher lvl content. And yeah, with all the forced synergies a lot of them will become quite a pain to use without reliable energy flow.

If energy orbs become as common as ammo drops, and like with ammo no enemy can ever take it away from us, we can talk about managing your energy.

Limbo literally draws black outlines around the characters, which I consider to be cell shading? :o

One of the proposed Zenurik residuals, yes. Not the one I was talking about, nor does it have anything to do with general energy economy that everyone is losing it over.

Immortality was in reference to removing health as a resource, not energy. Because if removing stamina is cause for removing energy as a concern, it's cause for removing any resource (it's not). The point was that, if you don't have to think about how you use a resource, you may as well not track that resource at all. The extreme of this is that you can't lose health because you don't have any, and therefore can't die. Alternatively, you have no health, so everything kills you in one hit. Either way, the point stands: we have these resources for a reason, and mechanics that allow us to ignore them in the long term are not good for the game. Stamina was similarly removed for a reason, and we don't have comparable reasons for removing energy, ammo, or health.

Oh. The outlines. Well, no, that's not cel shading, either.

Spoiler

 

"The name comes from cels (short for celluloid), the clear sheets of acetate, which are painted on for use in traditional 2D animation. [...] Conventional (smooth) lighting values are calculated for each pixel and then quantized to a small number of discrete shades to create the characteristic flat look – where the shadows and highlights appear more like blocks of color rather than mixed in a smooth way."

Basically, cel shading is supposed to imitate the appearance of traditional hand-drawn animation, which may include black ink-like outlines, but more importantly involves shading in blocks, rather than smooth per-pixel lighting of computer rendering that would be too time-consuming to perform on every frame by hand. Limbo washes out all the colours, adds a filter for his energy colour, and adds an outline to prevent enemies becoming too hard to see, but he doesn't change how anything is shaded.

 

 

24 minutes ago, BlueberryIsWar said:

Interesting, I can hardly do that with my max fleeting+streamline Ivara.

Really? A max efficiency Ivara can't maintain Prowl indefinitely? Well now I'm just confused. Prowl's pickpocket ability is just a bonus. You get enough energy by killing quickly. Your Prowl should use a little over half as much energy as mine, and I don't run out.

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10 hours ago, BlueberryIsWar said:

We are talking here about channeling your melee weapon. Not channeling abilities.

Amazing how the use of one word with multiple uses can cause so much confusion. Not once did i make mention of warframes, and given the effects of the focus ability it should be quite obvious that i'm talking about melee. Also amazing that life strike seems to be the only channeling mod people seems to think exists.

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6 minutes ago, Sorenxoras said:

No, just channeling melee. For builds that run off of it, that extra 50% efficiency will be pretty damn nice.

Considering the only serious use Channeling ever gets is Life Strike to connect, what, 1-3 hits and turn it off again, and that Naramon is giving you a Flat +50% Damage Bonus, which is basically a complete replacement to channeling damage that costs no energy... No, No one its right mind would grind Zenurik for that.

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