Jump to content
[DE]Rebecca

Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0

Recommended Posts

I'm concerned about the leaving an energy field behind for energy regen. Zenurik works so well because it goes with you. This sound like a less powerful energy pad. It'll work fine for defense but what about a more mobile squad in a survival? What about while roaming on the plains? This sounds like I'll be better off crafting 200 large energy restores, binding them to a mouse button, and just spamming it when I'm low. My only other problem is channeling efficiency. Like it'll be okay for Life Strike, but that requires so little channeling that it doesn't cost a lot anyways. That seems like it'll be a node I unlock for the thing next to it and then never use until I have literally nothing else to upgrade. The only way that's worth my time is if you have a channeling rework dropping with PoE that you haven't announced, and even then that would have to turn out well. I'm not willing to take that bet.

On a more positive note, Vazarin and Naramon both seem fantastic from this. Unairu and Madurai are looking like they're going to hinge on good numbers but that means half the battle is won. I suppose it is strange that Unairu has the stealth buff but that's also as a means of protecting allies. I imagine Naramon will be better for one's own invisibility since it is the rogue class. The return of Energy Spike as a Zenurik passive is also cool but it'll need a buff to be really worthwhile. I wouldn't say an Arcane Energize level pulse especially given that it's guaranteed but right now it's the thing you only bring on a Greedy Pull Mag if you have two full sets of Arcane Energize and the focus to spare, so it shouldn't be kept if it stays as is.

  • Upvote 17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I'm just hoping the new arcanes will be decent enough, and farmable enough. I REALLY don't wanna buy an Arcane Energize Set

85214055.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, while I find operator usage in a fairly fast-paced game rather clunky, I don't as such mind using it. What I do have a problem with though, is being confined to a specific area that isn't a Frost bubble. Looking at you Zenurik. And the aura after activation...does it only apply to the other team-mates and not yourself? In which case, why would I use zenurik then, instead of asking for a Trinity, who can spam 2? While I do have to be in range, that range can be an entire football-field.

Ok, so I am a current Zenurik 'scrub'. I like it. It makes everything flow better. And I always build for efficiency anyway. My problem with this new thing is...it doesn't fix what I personally think the problem is; the energy system to begin with. You don't want a spammy playstyle? Don't create frames that are reliant on weaving their abilities, or frequent use of 1-2 abilities to be good. Saryn is an obvious example. Nidus is a spam-king, but he has in-built energy recovery, and half his abilities don't cost energy, but the stacks that you HAVE to spam his 1 for. And add some tentacle-monster if enemies don't conga-line at you in the first place. Sorta same deal with Limbo. and he takes skill to play well! He has in-bult energy regen in the rift, and he needs to use all his abilities to do well (and oh boy his potential...).

You give all frames 4 abilities to use, but don't want spam. Why? Why do the frames have abilities if not to use them? Why do they not have better abilities, but all of them are on cooldowns when used? (I mean all skills, not just some of them), why are they even able to be spammed (some, like Nidus, requires you to spam), if that's not what you intend? Is fun allowed?

No, but for real, the problem, with your attitude, is the energy and ability system to begin with then. The rakta weapons provide some energy, and my rakta cernos is married to my hand by now, just because it keeps things going.

I'm curious though, why is it you think spamming abilities is bad? People are having fun, enjoying the game on their terms, with the tools you gave them (I am entirely in favor of adjusting said tools for fairness though!), creating variety in builds, instead of limiting representation to 'easiest power builds'...Prime example Frost, Trinity, Loki... Oh, and speaking of Trinity...her EV is literally unlimited energy. For everyone in range. AND overshields. And she can spam that thing to high heavens, occasional 4, then laugh while pressing 2 some more.

Maybe I'm just jaded, but I really don't understand what's so bad about focusing on 'casting' rather than 'run and gun'. Some people prefer one over the other, and that's cool, it's nice when there's difference in what people do with the game, isn't it? Surely you want people to be able to enjoy the game in multiple ways?

This isn't a stab at removing zenurik's overflow, but why there isn't access to smoother energy regen just normally,..or again, why you made the system as it is, gave some carrots, only to take it away because...you didn't want it to be that way? I mean, I can respect your vision for the game, I can, but this is the wrong approach in my opinion...

*Sigh* I suppose I apologize for going off on a rant, but I'm just rather nonplussed by this...situation.

Edited by Geraion
Spelling
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If all you need to do to activate your passive abilities is switch to your operator once, is it really necessary at all? People will just press 5 twice at the beginning of every mission.

Why not just start with the passives enabled instead?

  • Upvote 20

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest I'm disappointed. I hope there will be some new abilities, but this is just the same "Void Dash, Void Blast, Void Mode" things.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel somewhat worried for Zenurik's energy zones. Switching to and from Operator mode has a slight delay to it, placing down energy zones kinda goes against the game's high movement speed, using a mobility move to create a stationary zone feels counter intuitive, dashing through allies who move in insanely high speed sounds impossible to actually do. All the while, your Warframe sits stationary and is vulnerable to attacks. 

This isn't really enhancing the gameplay or making Zenurik anymore interactive. It's adding tedious steps to achieve a less effective version of what we had before with pointless Operator inputs. 

In fact, most of the 'dash through ally' abilities will likely never be used due to the absurd requirement of matching a Warframe's speed and hitting them. 

Also melee channeling efficiency? Nobody uses channeling due to how little benefit it provides other than Life Strike, which again there are loads of better alternatives. In addition to that, why choose this passive over Naramon's flat 50% Melee damage which has no cost?This Residual will likely never be used.

My expectations for the new Zenurik are pretty low now and I'm certain many players feel the same about this. 

This doesn't even address the issue with Transference and ping, 100+ ms situations, it takes a good 1-2 seconds to enter Transference, those few seconds could mean the difference between saving an ally or a dead Warframe on the floor. 

Edited by Agentawesome
  • Like 1
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 25

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The operators will still get easily oneshot (if they keep their 100hp) which does not encourage using them. Besides, take the Banshee with the Techs example: if I go into operator mode, my Banshee stops. Stopping near a high treat like this in this game is certain death. So please, tell me why I should bring the dumb kid out and risk either it or the warframe dying instead of getting away?

So are warframes getting invincibility while we switch to operator or something similar?

And with no other substitute for Energy Overflow I still see no reason to not use Zenurik with every non-perma-channelling warframe.

Channelling on melee is also awfully useless.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We will go over an example of a new X combat scenario:

I really don't like the fact that I , Vor, can predict results of theoretical focus 2.0 UX testing better than whoever is responsible for it now. That's how it will go: every premade group is going to have Trinity and even more public groups are going to have Embers and memeing strike range riven whips spin2win users. Why? Because it's a game about space ninjas going fast and slaughtering enemies by thousands. Casting EV is faster than chasing your friend's operator residual... void... energy..., and Ember and whips don't require any external support.

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some nitpicking on these "combat situations"
Vazarin:
"Your Rhino is strong, and together with the Saryn in your squad you're pummeling droves of enemies in a Survival mission. Time marches forth and so it goes, your body count climbing higher and higher. As you check out your HUD you see Saryn is taking heavy dam-" and she's dead already. Once you start taking heavy damage you're unlikely to recover or even hold out until the other player manages to switch to their operator (a process that takes like half a second) and dash through her in time.

Naramon:
"Your Banshee is under heavy Corpus fire -" aand she's dead, because Banshee is squishy af. But anyways "a barrage of Supra projectiles are coming toward you. As a Naramon Tenno, you engage Transference and enter Operator Mode and Void Blast an enemy with a Disarming Blast. Your beam has a high chance to disarm all enemies unlucky enough to be caught in its path!" Ah yes, disarming them will help when their projectiles are already coming your way.  "You return to your Warframe and make quick work of the now weaponless enemies." something you totally couldn't have done before because not having to switch between frame/operator is a lot faster. Shooting them immediately probably would've been quicker work

Zenurik:
"Your Mesa is going to work, protecting your defense point from hordes of Grineer. Suddenly, your Frame runs out of energy! With no Energy Restores" seems rather situational.. " you *quickly* switch to your Operator and Void Dash onto your objective.This creates a bubble where you land in which you and your teammates can charge up *quickly* to 'Make some Peace'." ... think of it like an area-of-effect energy restore consumable that Void Dashing can create ... Unless this actually is rather quick (you seem to be putting an emphasis on it), I don't see how this could replace instantly spawning several energy pizzas to save your @$$

Madurai:
"Loki—alone in the Plains—is doing as he pleases. He decides to play a bit of a trick on some Grineer Tusk units-" so only useful to mess around with, which is fine.. I guess. In the heat of a battle you won't have the time to switch to your operator and just hide doing nothing.

Unairu:
"Your Atlas is rocking out on a mobile defense mission, when suddenly you a nasty Nox comes your way! Switching to your Operator, you Void Dash through the enemy, sundering some of his armor and crippling his damage output. You remain in Void Mode near your teammates to grant them invisibility as they deal with the enemy from the safety of the shadows." Actually seems kinda useful! Apart from the fact that it'd probably take too long because a few well placed headshots would've done the same, quicker.

Now it might seem like I'm being all negative and I kind of am, it's because these replacements don't seem very useful. The (relatively) slow swapping between warframe and operator just takes too long. And with the (currently) rather clunky feeling operator movement I doubt even instantly switching would improve much. Not useful doesn't mean not fun though, and I'm curious as to what the new abilities will be like.

Edited by tbeest
spelling mistakes
  • Like 3
  • Upvote 24

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Agentawesome said:

I feel somewhat worried for Zenurik's energy zones. Switch to and from Operator mode has a slight delay to it, placing down energy zones kinda goes against the game's high movement speed, using a mobility move to create a stationary zone feels counter intuitive, dashing through allies who move in insanely high speed sounds impossible to actually do. All the while, your Warframe sits stationary and is vulnerable to attacks. 

 

 

This is a good point as well. Sacrificing some of your mobility is bad in and of itself, but also having to keep up with your very mobile teammates makes the situation more aggravating. It's already a pain trying to use targeted abilities on allies that can go from 0 to Blur at the speed of sound.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Syvarin said:

If all you need to do to activate your passive abilities is switch to your operator once, is it really necessary at all? People will just press 5 twice at the beginning of every mission.

Why not just start with the passives enabled instead?

IMO they should make it so it activates when you get X amount of kills as the operator or something like that but thats probably just me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Wait a second, aren't Marudai and Naramon swapped around?

Wasn't Naramon the school that was "the tactictian" and Marudai that was closer to "berserker"?


Why does Marudai provide invisibility?


PS: Unairu provides invisibility as well? Why?

Madurai isn't providing invisibility. Operators already have that. This just describes how Madurai will interact with the preexisting Void Walk. Same for Unairu.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

There are brand new things coming. We will cover these in detail in the Update notes - the suspense continues!

Will the Operator beams/amps finally deal Void damage? (Similar to the old Umbra Lance damage type)

As in, ignoring any damage reduction from ancient disruptors, ancient healers, armor, and being extra effective against Sentients?

It'd also be nice if Comba/Scrambus/Nullifiers don't just block actual Void abilities. Since even the Orokin didn't fully understand the Void.

Using Transference also needs to be smoother, since this new system makes it seem like we'll be hopping in and out of it often.

Thanks for the info :^)

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, WidescreenRules said:

So then don't use it! What is it with you people who try to get rid of something with no regards for the fact that it's optional?! Some people like lots of energy regen. Some don't. News flash: no one is forcing you to use it! But just because you don't like it doesn't mean that no one should be able to use it!

DE is forcing operator mode on the game.  If someone doesn't like operator mode, like the vast vast vast majority of players, now it the time to speak up before it is forced more into the game.

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 22

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Madurai:

 

We will go over an example of a new Madurai combat scenario:

 

Loki—alone in the Plains—is doing as he pleases. He decides to play a bit of a trick on some Grineer Tusk units he detects nearby. By slipping into Transference his operator cloaks himself ; each second spent cloaked significantly increases the damage of the next attack. After enough sneaking, the Operator fires and the Grineer are no more.

 

Next, take a look at what we're calling the 'Residual' nodes of Focus 2.0:

 

  • Residual Starting Node: Phoenix Talons. A Residual effect that grants you an increased Physical Damage. Once you activate the Operator for the first time(i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.
  • Residual: Phoenix Spirit: A Residual effect that grants you increased Elemental Damage. Once you activate the Operator for the first time (i.e Second Dream activation style or simply calling out the Operator), this remains for the whole mission.

Why is my fighter now a rogue.... This makes me sad. It should be the more damage you take makes the next attack stronger vs staying hidden. Just my opinion.

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About Passive/Residual,

Quote

this remains for the whole mission.

 

Remains to who?

- For your operator only?

- For your frame?

- For your frame and your operator?

- For the party operators?

- For the party frames?

- For all frames and all operators?

- Companions and specters included?

Edited by rafacasper
quotes
  • Like 1
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

snip... posted before it was ready

Edited by LSG501

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, DecadeX said:

I'm concerned about the leaving an energy field behind for energy regen. Zenurik works so well because it goes with you. This sound like a less powerful energy pad. It'll work fine for defense but what about a more mobile squad in a survival? What about while roaming on the plains? This sounds like I'll be better off crafting 200 large energy restores, binding them to a mouse button, and just spamming it when I'm low. My only other problem is channeling efficiency. Like it'll be okay for Life Strike, but that requires so little channeling that it doesn't cost a lot anyways. That seems like it'll be a node I unlock for the thing next to it and then never use until I have literally nothing else to upgrade. The only way that's worth my time is if you have a channeling rework dropping with PoE that you haven't announced, and even then that would have to turn out well. I'm not willing to take that bet.

On a more positive note, Vazarin and Naramon both seem fantastic from this. Unairu and Madurai are looking like they're going to hinge on good numbers but that means half the battle is won. I suppose it is strange that Unairu has the stealth buff but that's also as a means of protecting allies. I imagine Naramon will be better for one's own invisibility since it is the rogue class. The return of Energy Spike as a Zenurik passive is also cool but it'll need a buff to be really worthwhile. I wouldn't say an Arcane Energize level pulse especially given that it's guaranteed but right now it's the thing you only bring on a Greedy Pull Mag if you have two full sets of Arcane Energize and the focus to spare, so it shouldn't be kept if it stays as is.

Well said.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@[DE]Rebecca

 

Thus far, here's the general feedback:

 

Why is using the Operator to resolve these situations better, or even as good as, just using Warframe mobility and weaponry? The last time mechanics like these were implemented, it was the Vaykor Sydon with its actually, quite literally useless passive.

 

If Operators are still slow and clunky, they will still not be fun to play. It's not about the buffs or the damage. It's about whether they are fluid and fun to play.

 

If Focus 2.0 is about Operators and not Warframes, why are you showcasing the ways in which it helps Warframes and not talking about the changes to how Operators work?

Edited by BornWithTeeth
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

@[DE]Rebecca

 

Thus far, here's the general feedback:

 

Why is using the Operator to resolve these situations better, or even as good as, just using Warframe mobility and weaponry? The last time mechanics like these were implemented, it was the Vaykor Sydon with its actually, quite literally useless passive.

 

If Operators are still slow and clunky, they will still not be fun to play. It's not about the buffs or the damage. It's about whether they are fluid and fun to play.

 

If Focus 2.0 is about Operators and not Warframes, why are you showcasing the ways in which it helps Warframes and not talking about the changes to how Operators work?

In both streams it was said that they don't want to spoil the new "Warrior Operator" mode that you upgrade into from the Eidolon hunter NPC.

So we'll just have to wait and see if they're quicker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, DimkaTsv said:

 

 

Really... And you don't even want to look int channeling efficiency even if you  shouldn't have chosen zenurik?

So the best reason for me to choose something is the fact I have a load of expendable resources? 

Well, that trully makes it seem like all passives will have a place. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rest in piece Zenurik. Having to stand still to get energy? Might as well just use energy pads and go for a less useless focus school.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 19

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jobistober said:

Ah, the ol' "don't like it? then don't use it" excuse.

So much for feedback. If someone thinks a feature or mechanic is broken, just don't use it. Nice. Just discount anyone's opinion that isn't the same as yours. This is the dev workshop, DE is proposing a new system and it's our job as players to tell them what we like and don't like about the proposal.

It's very much clear that the energy economy is in trouble in this game, and energy restores/regen passives are simply a bandaid.

Spare me the dismissive hand wave. Yes, that excuse - because it's completely valid. Even if it is broken, if you don't want to use it, then it has zero impact on you. Similarly, if you don't use it, then you have to reason to call for its complete removal when others could be severely impacted by it. There are a lot of things I don't necessarily like about this new movement towards operator combat, but I have no intention of utilizing it. I'll leave it to the people who look forward to it to give feedback since they'll be the ones playing it.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kinda disappointed honestly. I thought the entire Operator combat was going to be overhauled but it seems like we're still stuck with the Void Dash/Blast/Cloaking still. That's a shame, because movement and actions as the Operator are extremely clunky and feel far too slow and poorly paced for a game like this. I hope this is just you folks hiding the actual Operator overhauls.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 24

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...