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[DE]Rebecca

Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0

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20 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

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At first I didn't get it...10 shins..that's a good one....how long did you spend editing that just to deliver that pun.. :\

Edited by ExtraTerramanndo

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I hope DE continue working on the operator to make them more smooth because right now, they are really boring compared to Warframes. All they need to do is look at inFamous: Second Son and take some inspiration from that. Operator still looks jerky and twitchy in the Prime Time, with just some new little additions to the fluidity of going out and going in. Combat still looks really stilted and boring, they don't have stealth finisher attacks (which would be an amazing addition!) and overall combat is stale. It would be really cool to have stealth finishers and for operators to be proper stealth utilities because combat with them doesn't look fun. 

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11 hours ago, ExtraTerramanndo said:

At first I didn't get it...10 shins..that's a good one....how long did you spend editing that just to deliver that pun.. :\

Just the time it went to google the image.  

You are not the first to confuse Teshin's name as TENshin.

Edited by Kaotyke
forgot the "not"

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Not gonna lie, but I feel like the operator passives are pretty much a band aid for all the issues the operator have had since day one. Kinda sucks that instead of fixing them based on feedback ages ago, you are now addressing these issues by forcing the user base to unlock all focus trees and spend a gazillion points on each to try to fix said issues.  I honestly feel the majority of my existing focus points will be wasted getting my operator not to be a slow, low hp, low energy guy, when all of those changes should be base operator reworks and not unlockables. I mean, I would not mind an operator hp passive, for example, provided you guys had fixed the tiny 100hp no shield values operator have by defaults in the first place.... But being forced to unlock and level up vasarin just so my operator isn't a squishy wet towel that gets one shot by LVL 30 grineer sucks.

But alas, you guys love Band-Aid mods and solutions instead of fixing the underlying gameplay and balancing issues directly, making us acquire expensive and time consuming Band-Aids that restrict our choices because they become pretty much mandatory .

 

Edited by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra
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3 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Not gonna lie, but I feel like the operator passives are pretty much a band aid for all the issues the operator have had since day one. Kinda sucks that instead of fixing them based on feedback ages ago, you are now addressing these issues by forcing the user base to unlock all focus trees and spend a gazillion points on each to try to fix said issues.  I honestly feel the majority of my existing focus points will be wasted getting my operator not to be a slow, low hp, low energy guy, when all of those changes should be base operator reworks and not unlockables. I mean, I would not mind an operator hp passive, for example, provided you guys had fixed the tiny 100hp no shield values operator have by defaults in the first place.... But being forced to unlock and level up vasarin just so my operator isn't a squishy wet towel that gets one shot by LVL 30 grineer sucks.

But alas, you guys love Band-Aid mods and solutions instead of fixing the underlying gameplay and balancing issues directly, making us acquire expensive and time consuming Band-Aids that restrict our choices because they become pretty much mandatory .

 

They didn't bandaid it you idiot. They have an entire armor and arcane system not shown of yet dedicated to fixing those problems. The focus bonuses are just that, bonuses. The real changes come with the armor, weapon, and arcanes.

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Just now, GrimR3APER said:

They didn't bandaid it you idiot. They have an entire armor and arcane system not shown of yet dedicated to fixing those problems. The focus bonuses are just that, bonuses. The real changes come with the armor, weapon, and arcanes.

Fixing flawed base gameplay with additional tools. Sounds like a band-aid to me.

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3 minutes ago, letir said:

Fixing flawed base gameplay with additional tools. Sounds like a band-aid to me.

Oh IM SO SORRY THAT ADDING MULTIPLE ARMORS AND WEAPONS IS CONSIDERED A BAND-AID TO YOU. Its not a band-aid, how could adding additional tools and gameplay levels be bad? It even makes sense, unlike warframes, operators SHOULD need armor to increase their health and give them shields. 

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31 minutes ago, letir said:

Fixing flawed base gameplay with additional tools. Sounds like a band-aid to me.

By that logic, adding better weapons is a band-aid.

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Do not forget the enforcement of the abilities your Operator already has, Void dash,beam etc.  So your operator should also have to spend focus points to improve operator abilities which should be logical, except I do not yet see how that is like "Training" for the operator.  I honestly do not understand why people dislike the Operator aspect so much, just because you're as slow as a slug and squishy like one, you should just give up on the operator altogether eh, just leave him/her disabled and provide passive support?  Just because the game is called "Warframe" and "hey...that's not a warframe! e.e"  The guys got a story to tell and DE pulled a mind bending move apparently by saying WF's are controlled remotely rather than having a person being in the suit like Power Rangers, that was a cool move.  So I don't know about you guys, but my operator needs some fresh air,sunshine 'n exercise so I see nothing bad about this update as of yet.

Also...so his name is Teshin, okay then..

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31 minutes ago, ExtraTerramanndo said:

Do not forget the enforcement of the abilities your Operator already has, Void dash,beam etc.  So your operator should also have to spend focus points to improve operator abilities which should be logical, except I do not yet see how that is like "Training" for the operator.  I honestly do not understand why people dislike the Operator aspect so much, just because you're as slow as a slug and squishy like one, you should just give up on the operator altogether eh, just leave him/her disabled and provide passive support?  Just because the game is called "Warframe" and "hey...that's not a warframe! e.e"  The guys got a story to tell and DE pulled a mind bending move apparently by saying WF's are controlled remotely rather than having a person being in the suit like Power Rangers, that was a cool move.  So I don't know about you guys, but my operator needs some fresh air,sunshine 'n exercise so I see nothing bad about this update as of yet.

Also...so his name is Teshin, okay then..

Its one of the things that you must roll your eyes to.

Sure the voice lines need work, we have all agreed on that, but there are some people who take their "hatred" for the Operators to the extreme:

I met someone who said will never complete TSD because of them. You know what that meant for him? Never go beyond Neptune. Because he didnt unlock Pluto before Junctions were added. I pointed it out to him... and he was like "I dont care", my response was just a "I just hope you are at least having fun, thats all that matters", and it ended there. I met another saying he wanted DE to get rid of the Operators else he and his clan would quit, others who say the Operator Mode is terrible and that DE needs to fix it... and now that they ARE fixing it, they are screaming to leave them alone and forgotten... and I just saw in the complain thread in GD a guy saying he wouldnt play the Plains of Eidolon because of it. Like... 60wat?

Its almost the same with Archwing, DE plans to improve it and people complain because they are improving it even if they asked for improvements.

Its better not to think about it, roll your eyes and move on, because for all the childishness they complain about the Operator having, they are being worse.

Now, lets go back to the point of the thread, this is going off topic.

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On 06.10.2017 at 6:46 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

As we continue our refresh of Focus, here is a brief update on Zenurik’s development since this Dev Workshop was originally posted.

But! Before we delve into the specific changes to Zenurik, if you wanted to take a closer look at the changes to Madurai and Zenurik’s trees, Rebecca and Megan did just that on last night’s Prime Time:  

  Hide contents

 

Now onto Zenurik: 

  • With a focus on Energy Overflow in the first pass of the devworkshop, we want to give Energizing Dash a formal introduction. Here’s how it works - When you perform a Void Dash as your Operator, an AOE bubble is created, in which you or your allies can pass through its zone to gain 5 energy for up to 30 seconds on the latest build. The bubble may be recreated at any time simply by Void Dashing again, and its energy regeneration may be refreshed if traversed. 

For a demonstration of Energizing Dash in action, here’s a clip from last night’s Prime Time:

  Hide contents

 

  • The Inner Might passive originally (at the time this devworkshop was posted) granted up to 50% more Channeling Efficiency on Melee. We’ve since increased that to 60% in an effort to breathe a bit more life into Channeling. On the one hand - right now is that enough life? Possibly not. But we are boldening a bit to revisit the mechanic down the road! 


As with all things in the final stages of development, these are subject to change. We will keep you in the know as we work backstage. 

Please, before introducing these new fancy features into the game, try them in laggy environment with ping over 100-150. One of my last kuva hunts was a hell. There were situations when I switched to operator, used Void Blast on a guardian, Void Dashed, and switched back to Warframe, but only saw how the guardian had fallen to knees and lost her Kesheg, only when I was through the drill I saw rapid transition to operator and back to tenno. This was with ping barely higher than 100. It's very common to have annoying delays before operator actions when playing as client.

This is another unnecessary layer of complexity. IMHO, the game does not need it.

Edited by Bouldershoulder
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On 9/29/2017 at 2:48 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • The Inner Might passive originally (at the time this devworkshop was posted) granted up to 50% more Channeling Efficiency on Melee. We’ve since increased that to 60% in an effort to breathe a bit more life into Channeling. On the one hand - right now is that enough life? Possibly not. But we are boldening a bit to revisit the mechanic down the road! 

I'm sorry, but that can't breath life into Channeling. It's a terrible mechanic that virtually no one uses that needs to go away in favor of something that won't waste precious mod slots and energy that is much more important for abilities because those do infinitely more to keep you alive over channeling.

Edited by Ceryk
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3 hours ago, GrimR3APER said:

Oh IM SO SORRY THAT ADDING MULTIPLE ARMORS AND WEAPONS IS CONSIDERED A BAND-AID TO YOU. Its not a band-aid, how could adding additional tools and gameplay levels be bad? It even makes sense, unlike warframes, operators SHOULD need armor to increase their health and give them shields. 

Because if the core problem is the base gameplay (imo, it is), then adding armor and stuff doesn't improve their gameplay, just their stats. It's a band-aid.

The more I've thought about it, I've realized that my problem with the Operators is two-fold:

1) I can't stand the movement-based ability mechanics. I'm not a big fan of Warframe parkour already, particularly having to crouch to do a super jump (bullet jumping after sliding is nice, but just holding the jump key to jump higher would be nice as well), so I'm not a fan of having to crouch to Void Dash. And binding slide to the Sprint key instead of letting us sprint and crouch doesn't make much sense to me. I understand that crouch is tied to Void Mode, but the solution, imo, is to decouple crouch and Void Mode, and thereby, crouch and Void Dash. Let crouch be crouch and bind Void Mode to another key.

Beyond that, I don't like how DE's handling Operator abilities. I don't think all schools should have the same abilities with different effects and buffs (and I'm don't really care much about the buffs). I think each school should have different abilities that reflect their descriptions. That would make each school much more interesting to me because it would make them so much more diverse.

2) I don't like the Operator system being designed around continually popping in and out of your Warframe. That is not fun to me. I'd rather the Operators be designed like the Focus 1.0 system, where you build up a meter and then your Operator is like a sort of unleashed mode with limitless Void energy for a set duration, or maybe designed around just staying in Operator mode. For me, either would be better than how the Operators are designed now.

Really, what I think I'd like is if playing as Warframes and Operators isn't something that is meant to complement each other (again, I don't like popping in and out all the time) but gameplay options that are a matter of choice: do you play with your stronger tried and true Warframes with their weapons and limited energy pools or do you play with your Operators, which are weaker, but have limitless energy and more powerful potential. Operators are supposed to be the Tenno no longer limited by their Warframes; at least, that's how TSD and TWW presented them. So, I think the gameplay should reflect that. Operator abilities should be in some way more powerful than Warframe abilities (maybe this should be the case when you've maxed out a school). So your tradeoff between playing as Warframes and Operators should be more durability-less power or less durability-more power, imo. Having Warframe and Operator gameplay be an endgame matter of choice would be better, imo, than having a limited Operator mode that is required in certain situations and designed around continually activating and deactivating Operator mode.

Edited by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n
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3 hours ago, GrimR3APER said:

Oh IM SO SORRY THAT ADDING MULTIPLE ARMORS AND WEAPONS IS CONSIDERED A BAND-AID TO YOU. Its not a band-aid, how could adding additional tools and gameplay levels be bad? It even makes sense, unlike warframes, operators SHOULD need armor to increase their health and give them shields. 

Tools are bad when developers don't fix root of the problem and instead feed players with additional (mandatory) "temporal solutions".

Like adding Drfiting Contact and Body Count instead of simple Melee Counter fix.

Or adding some mandatory armor to make your paper-thin operator actually viable in mid-game.

2 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

By that logic, adding better weapons is a band-aid.

It's Power Creep.

When players ask: "Please, fix insane armor scaling" and DE answers: "Shure, just take this Corrosive Projection Aura" - this is band-aid solution.

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2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

For the record, I'd be very in favour of Operator-only infiltration missions.

For the record for this to hold appeal to the mass it has to have unique reward systems.
For the record the mass hates to be "forced" into content.

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1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

For the record for this to hold appeal to the mass it has to have unique reward systems.
For the record the mass hates to be "forced" into content.

Unless the rewards benefit the Operator only.

And maybe Relics. Never have enough Relics.

Edited by Kaotyke

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Just now, Kaotyke said:

Unless the rewards benefit the Operator only.

50,000 focus points to a random school? 

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Just now, Kaotyke said:

Unless the rewards benefit the Operator only.

For the record people have been salty about PvP only rewards (cosmetic rewards), Primes, Mods, Arcanes and what's not since forever.

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1 minute ago, Kinetos said:

50,000 focus points to a random school? 

Maybe not so much...

10.000 is good thought, depending on difficulty it can raise, make it like Syndicate missions: those points dont count in the daily cap... but that cant be just it, sooner or latter the cap will be reached and the excess points used for nothing.

Just now, phoenix1992 said:

For the record people have been salty about PvP only rewards (cosmetic rewards), Primes, Mods, Arcanes and what's not since forever.

YAGpXPd.png

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2 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Maybe not so much...

10.000 is good thought, depending on difficulty it can raise, make it like Syndicate missions: those points dont count in the daily cap... but that cant be just it, sooner or latter the cap will be reached and the excess points used for nothing.

YAGpXPd.png


Now if the said "hypothetical" operator missions drop Kuva, Nitain and Forma BP's I would most likely run them.
As long as they are not "exclusive to time periods".

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1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

Maybe not so much...

10.000 is good thought, depending on difficulty it can raise, make it like Syndicate missions: those points dont count in the daily cap... but that cant be just it, sooner or latter the cap will be reached and the excess points used for nothing.

YAGpXPd.png

Like a "Tenshin Training" mission,with each type of mission giving a certain amount of focus to different schools

 

Unairu:Defense

Madurai:Exterminate

Vazarin:Rescue

Naramon:Spy

Zenurik:Capture

Edited by _12K
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3 hours ago, letir said:

Tools are bad when developers don't fix root of the problem and instead feed players with additional (mandatory) "temporal solutions".

Like adding Drfiting Contact and Body Count instead of simple Melee Counter fix.

Or adding some mandatory armor to make your paper-thin operator actually viable in mid-game.

It's Power Creep.

When players ask: "Please, fix insane armor scaling" and DE answers: "Shure, just take this Corrosive Projection Aura" - this is band-aid solution.

Okay so you'd rather the developers just flat out buff them instead? Lame. When the community in THAT timeline starts going: "he DE any plans on adding some cool armor or weapons for these operator characters you've added?" They will be told: "Nope sorry guys lol. We wanted to do that but decided that just making the lame base operators have decent stats would be better. We think it'd be a band-aid to add all new customization, focus reworks, gameplay elements, and story to the operators in cetus and that's just not what we think you'd want."

Sure some S#&$ like the &#! mods that cover up bad systems are Band-Aids, but the whole operator system was never intended to replace your damn Warframe. Don't *@##$ about your 5'6 stick kid not being able to take on military clones, techno merchants, and infested zombie monsters at lvl30. Just wait for the update to come out, WAIT FOR THOSE UNSHOWN ARMOR, WEAPON, AND ARCANE SYSTEMS TO BE REVEALED, before you *@##$ about it being a band-aid. I'd take this band-aid over a S#&$ty stat boost any day.

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Okay so here's my um queries and suggestions regarding focus 2.0 and operator mode

 

well first off I like most of where this is going so far. I follow zenurik and i see a lot of people worried about it but Looking at the new mechanics I am overall satisfied. its a bit of a loss from having to regularly reactivate the energy regen to having it passive but having it share with allies is also worthwhile.

 

all these powers focus solely on the operator mode. not the focus burst ghost operator power. are these base powers being utterly removed? I mean as a Zenurik user my weird stasis pulses arent the most powerful focus ability. but I do still find use for them in incapacitating part of a crowd in a pinch. and ofcourse Madurai deeply loves it's Unibeam as it should.

 

technically the gap between second dream and war within isnt big but it also depends on how fast players progress. now the passives are mentioned to activate when focus is used but what form focus use takes has not been mentioned. nor are the original core focus abiltities listed on the focus trees I've seen in devstreams and primetimes.

 

I mean I agree that the passives especially should be operated easily with operator mode. and that focus should be operator-mode oriented, don't misunderstand me.

but the original focus bursts were also useful abilities in a pinch in their own right. though abilties that were discouraged by the use of the passives. people ignored the features not tied to the passives to get the passives out faster. but freed up from that as we will be. I think ghost operator focus powers will have use for most players as a sort of panic button power. even without the various tree-related upgrades and just the core ability itself.

 

Then another big question and one I think is the biggest concern for many players. Operators and affinity. currently operator mode discourages its own use by being incapable of gaining affinity from any source. even objective affinity and Focus pickups. which means operator mode isnt even any good for furthering its own power. this has not been covered yet either and sorely needs to be addressed.

I think kill affinity should drop straight into focus affinity at the very least. at an equivelancy rating equal to a greater lens or maybe eidolon lens or maybe more. and objective affinity maybe split half between warframe and equipment like usual and focus affinity. as some of us like completing spy vaults in operator mode when our frame is.. less then subtle. and doing spy vaults in operator mode for express focus farming seems perhaps a little much. but then on the whole an exp farm with lenses equipped would yield more focus then spy vaults with operators anyway.. so I suppose full operator mode exp directly to focus would make more sense.. and as operator equipment is mentioned to be arcane-like in mechanics they wont need affinity either. but having operator mode wasting all affinity is an issue especially as it would make the most sense to use one's operator to farm the affinity that makes them stronger. affinity should go to the equipped focus school so lenses will be needed to unlock other schools naturally. and ofcourse farming 40 minutes on akkad in operator mode would be much harder then farming it with a lens'd mesa so the affinity methods somewhat balance out. and allow for variation in focus farming.

 

Lastly my final request is to allow more then one accessory be worn together As they stand none of them would cause any real severe clipping issues when equipped together and some combinations would actually look quite epic for excample dual occulus and occular sensors actually sit together well enough to combine into very odd but still credible looking glasses. and many other accessories dont even sit on the same part of the face. such as the diadems and the eyepieces. and the earpieces.

for that I reccomend 2-3 accessory slots. you could devide them based on part of the face they affect as we do have three distinct zones. ears, eyes and forehead. but honestly I would just let people mix and match as they please. some people will combine them in fun ways. like the shadava and satyri diadems worn over the Sofren diadem would create a very crown-like result and we know people would have way too much fun with that.

 

anyway that's all~

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