Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0

[LSG501]

15 hours ago, letir said:

Yes, Operators should be strong by default, because it's end-game system for veterans with best weapon and builds. They should be competetive right now, not after hours of grind and some mandatory equpement.

devils advocate here..... but if the operators are end game strong then by that definition they're basically as strong or stronger than warframes....so why bother with warframes in the first place....

 

It basically boils down to the below....

If the warframes are weaker than the operator why would you bother with a warframe...

If the operator is weaker than the warframe why would you use the operator...

If you try and add them later like they are now, with I assume some semblance of balance, you get the current situation where operators feel 'forced' into the game even though many of us don't actually like the operator aspect of the game.   (I'll be honest, I've never seen the need for a physical operator....)

[LSG501]

forum isn't registering posting so end up double posting....

[Fylas]

4 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

devils advocate here..... but if the operators are end game strong then by that definition they're basically as strong or stronger than warframes....so why bother with warframes in the first place....

 

It basically boils down to the below....

If the warframes are weaker than the operator why would you bother with a warframe...

If the operator is weaker than the warframe why would you use the operator...

If you try and add them later like they are now, with I assume some semblance of balance, you get the current situation where operators feel 'forced' into the game even though many of us don't actually like the operator aspect of the game.   (I'll be honest, I've never seen the need for a physical operator....)

counter offer: if the operator and warframe can reach about the same powerlevel with specialization, you could use a different playstyle and layout on each, being able to switch playstyle at the drop of a hat depending on what's needed, allowing people with high mastery over the various customization systems to adapt as the situation requires it. instantly :o 

[DreamsmithJane]

1 hour ago, Ketec said:

 Energy Overflow - it better provide ME just as much energy throughout  the WHOLE mission as it does right now - over 2/3rd of my builds rely on it.
I do not care if it gives less but stacks with people in range - they are not always in range and i do not always play in a group and not everyone always has it. 

It needs to move with me - warframe is about mobility not sitting in one place. I do not care about those damn situational bubbles if i'm facing lvl 100+ enemies crowding the area - i need to move around to avoid getting 1 hit. Switching to the emo mode and creating bubbles to sit in is a suicide.

If you screw up one of the only reliable source of energy regen - nerf enemy energy stealing/removal accordingly.

And this whole operator switch crap - it's WORTHLESS. Warframe is not a game of slow tactics. Those scenarios provided may look good in your head - but just like some complicated combo moves - you do not really use those in real gameplay. Let alone risk bringing out a squishy operator among enemies that can 1 hit you.

Also can we get some (non platinum or $$$) clothing and styles for operators? They look like they just came out of the pod cutting their wrists and crying about their sad life.
 

According to our most recent information (albeit "subject to change"):

• Energizing Dash provides 5 energy per second instead of 4. It is indeed "more powerful" as the OP stated.
• It's usable at the start of the mission. Up to 825 extra energy before the earliest time you can start using Energy Overflow now. Some missions are over before EO gives you anything.
• Entering the area for any length of time tags you with a persistent buff for 30 seconds that gives you the regen (picture like 5x Octavia passives). It does travel with you, and you will gain it every time you void dash and then exit operator mode (e.g. when Kuva farming, you will accidentally activate it). Since operators will now inherit warframe momentum on using transference, you can void dash out of a bullet jump without even slowing down, and still gain your energy. Maybe leave it in a doorway as you pass, so others can pick it up.
• One of the passives gives you even more bonus regen for 5 seconds every time you collect an energy orb (equal to 50% of the orb value), and doesn't require any extra action.
• Operators are (potentially, when fully trained) neither slow nor squishy under this new system. Transference is much faster and more fluid right from the start. These tactics are viable. In fact, new focus powers will be better than ever at covering the gaps in warframe abilities and creating unique ways of playing each frame.
• Yes, we will apparently be able to earn new operator cosmetics in Cetus with standing.

[Horonelius]

From what I understood, the operator armor in Cetus will provide actual stat increases like health armor and shields, so we won't necessarily have to spend half a year of focus farming just to become combat viable.

I might be wrong though.

[LSG501]

3 hours ago, Fylas said:

counter offer: if the operator and warframe can reach about the same powerlevel with specialization, you could use a different playstyle and layout on each, being able to switch playstyle at the drop of a hat depending on what's needed, allowing people with high mastery over the various customization systems to adapt as the situation requires it. instantly :o 

which would be fine if the game actually needed that type of adaption but lets be honest we don't need to do that if you actually look at what you're doing on the mission first....

And personally I don't want missions added that force us to use the operator, like many others I didn't start playing this game to play as the operator, I came to play as a warframe and we only have 30+ to choose from before we start a mission.....

 

3 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

According to our most recent information (albeit "subject to change"):

1. Energizing Dash provides 5 energy per second instead of 4. It is indeed "more powerful" as the OP stated.
2. It's usable at the start of the mission. Up to 825 extra energy before the earliest time you can start using Energy Overflow now. Some missions are over before EO gives you anything.
3. One of the passives gives you even more bonus regen for 5 seconds every time you collect an energy orb (equal to 50% of the orb value), and doesn't require any extra action.
4. Operators are (potentially, when fully trained) neither slow nor squishy under this new system. Transference is much faster and more fluid right from the start. These tactics are viable. In fact, new focus powers will be better than ever at covering the gaps in warframe abilities and creating unique ways of playing each frame.

1...1 extra energy isn't really more powerful when you only get it for 30 seconds at a time without micromanaging a void dash to keep it going versus the current/old system of 4 per second constantly.... that 30 extra energy is basically covering the time it would take to do pop out the operator, void dash, run into bubble and back into frame etc if they'd have just left it at 4 per second.... the change just seems like they're trying to 'force' us to use the operator unnecessarily.  edit: Yes they may have said about stacking it but I'm not expecting that to happen because they'll likely see that as overpowered.

2... to be fair if you can complete a mission before EO launches you don't really need it...and I usually run zenurik.

3... which is fine but this is just going to benefit frames like ember etc who have always on abilities active (assuming it doesn't get disabled with channelled abilities because I bet DE hasn't even thought of this) meaning we'll likely see an influx of ember (and the likes) with higher power/range with lower efficiency builds at higher levels doing the same thing as they do at lower levels.... that's going to be so much fun running from point a to point b...

4... I haven't seen anything in the devstreams which show using an operator is a better tactic than using a warframe, while the operator may indeed be an improvement over the current one it still seems like an unnecessary addition considering how long it will take to get all the focus points to 'max out' an operator. 

 

 

[Kinetos]

1 hour ago, Horonelius said:

From what I understood, the operator armor in Cetus will provide actual stat increases like health armor and shields, so we won't necessarily have to spend half a year of focus farming just to become combat viable.

I might be wrong though.

Not exactly. We will be able to slot arcanes into operator cosmetics including existing suits and PoE armor. 

[Ketec]

3 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

According to our most recent information (albeit "subject to change"):

• Energizing Dash provides 5 energy per second instead of 4. It is indeed "more powerful" as the OP stated.
• It's usable at the start of the mission. Up to 825 extra energy before the earliest time you can start using Energy Overflow now. Some missions are over before EO gives you anything.
• Entering the area for any length of time tags you with a persistent buff for 30 seconds that gives you the regen (picture like 5x Octavia passives). It does travel with you, and you will gain it every time you void dash and then exit operator mode (e.g. when Kuva farming, you will accidentally activate it). Since operators will now inherit warframe momentum on using transference, you can void dash out of a bullet jump without even slowing down, and still gain your energy. Maybe leave it in a doorway as you pass, so others can pick it up.
• One of the passives gives you even more bonus regen for 5 seconds every time you collect an energy orb (equal to 50% of the orb value), and doesn't require any extra action.
• Operators are (potentially, when fully trained) neither slow nor squishy under this new system. Transference is much faster and more fluid right from the start. These tactics are viable. In fact, new focus powers will be better than ever at covering the gaps in warframe abilities and creating unique ways of playing each frame.
• Yes, we will apparently be able to earn new operator cosmetics in Cetus with standing.

Operator cancels stealth. So i have to switch to a visible operator mode, dash across the room to activate energy, switch back, cast stealth again - and hope i wasn't seen.

And unless they give operators some hey armor or shields and hp and make them scale with warframe HP/shield mods - they are squishy, even warframes take heavy damage sometimes.

[MayssonFairbanks]

On 10/7/2017 at 12:28 AM, Archwizard said:

 

NARAMON

  Reveal hidden contents

Starting node (RESIDUAL):
Affinity Spike (6 ranks) - Increased Affinity from Melee kills

Branch 1 (RESIDUAL):
Power Spike (4 ranks) - Increased melee damage

Branch 2:
Executing Dash (4 ranks) - Instead of throwing enemies, Void Dash opens them to finishers and increases finisher damage taken
Surging Dash (6 ranks) - Void Dash base damage and damage radius (ie width) are increased

Branch 3:
Disorienting Blast (4 ranks) - Void Blast has a chance to Confuse enemies (a la Mind Spike, Chaos, Irradiating Disarm)
Disarming Blast (6 ranks) - Void Blast has a chance to Disarm enemies (a la Radial Disarm, Nyx's passive)

Branch 4:
Void Stalker (4 ranks) - Entering Void Mode increases melee Crit Chance (stacks a la Point Strike) over 5 sec, but this bonus diminishes over 20 sec upon exiting Void Mode
Void Hunter (4 ranks) - Enemies within range can be seen through walls while in Void Mode (a la Zenith)

Branch 5 (WAY-BOUND):
Mind Step (4 ranks + capstone) - Increased Operator movement speed (including slide speed)
Mind Sprint (4 ranks + capstone) - Increased Void Dash travel distance

 

Wow there...... Wait a minute Ladies and gentlemen.  Ive been following this focus change thing from afar but here comes a time when a man has no choice but to put a palm to his face.

DE, you know Ive put money into your game, and I know that my opinion does not have more value than any other player. Here I am providing angry feedback and hoping my concerns will be heard.

I wish I could find an appropriate wording, unfortunately there are no other ways to put it, this tree sucks.

First of all, I chose Naramon because of the lore and didn't know at all what to expect from it or any other tree. I was pleasantly suprised to realize that Naramon would fit my playstyle perfectly (fast-paced melee, hit-and-run style). No need to mention I was having a lot of fun as a stealthy ninja slashing bad guys left & right with powerful strikes.

I have finally found a playstyle that I really like and ive been enjoying this enhanced aspect of the game for about 2 months but now the whole focus system is changing, the whole Naramon tree is changing, and all my Naramon points will be refunded. That's nice. Except for one detail; these points are basically USELESS to me now that the tree is halfway DEAD.

I'm not going to go into details as to why half these abilities suck, just take a look at their descriptions, screams "CLUNKY" to the max and I can't picture myself using most of those during frantic combat, especially if I have to recast them over & over, or every 20 seconds. Anyway here we go:

Executing dash - requires getting out or warframe, doing a void dash, seems useless without Surging dash

Disorienting/Disarming blast - not only requires getting out of armor, and performing a void blast, but it only has a CHANCE to confuse / disarm enemies. What kind of crap is that? Invest hundreds of thousands of points, go out of your way to trigger it, in order to get A CHANCE at something.

Void Stalker - Requires getting out of warframe, and having to sneak around like a weasel, in order to get a mere 20 second crit buff?? 
Void Hunter - Seems useless, especially in the freaking Plains

Mind Step/ Mind Sprint - Operator-only, makes it totally useless for frames, AND should be baseline anyway.

Two questions:

1. Are you telling me Ive been chasing those yellow orbs for nothing? Do you have any idea of how much time I spent doing that.

2. Why did you have to nerf that tree to the ground? I'm not even exagerrating here, and I honestly fail to see what was the issue. Was it too much fun??? Or, maybe was it too powerful? In relation to what exactly? Look, these players are having way too much fun killing mobs made out of pixels, let's ruin their playstyle. This thing they're using is obscenely overpowered, we have to kill it.

Listen, I'm going to explain to you (DE) what logic is. The reason why some players use Naramon is because they find it fun, it increases their enjoyement of the game. Otherwise if they weren't having fun, then they would simply use another school, OR refrain from using the whole focus sytem, OR they would stop playing the game entirely. Gutting an entire mechanic which brought untold hours of fun to your loyal players is the definition of "no fun allowed".

Do you want players to have fun or not? Isn't that the point of the whole game? a pve co-op game with space ninjas? Why do you have to go out of your way to nerf fun stuff and piss off players in the process, in a casual pve game of all things? When you think about it, how can anything be considered overpowered to the point of removing it in the context of a casual co-op pve video game. I'd like to know who the heck actually complained about that?

Are there really people out there who complain about having the OPTION to kill monsters more easily in one way or the other?

Are there really people out there who don't appreciate the fact that other players might have a different definition of what's fun and what's not?

Are there really people out there complaining that the game is too easy for them because they CHOSE to use something powerful?

Unless I'm totally unaware of some critical detail pertaining to the situation, I fail to see how is one dude turning invisible detrimental to anything in this game? The only area where invisiblity can be a issue is PvP, as far as I'm concerned it is an entirely different topic and i don't know enough about it. We're talking about PVE here, and we're not talking about competitive pve either like those World of Warcraft clans. Besides, if anything, when something is deemed broken, you simply fix it, ADJUST IT, or worst case scenario you adjust the "E" part of "PvE". You just don't kill the whole mechanic and outright bury it.

Anyway, why didn't you buff the other trees, and make them more desirable, instead of gimping Naramon? I was enjoying this game precisely because of its casual appeal, being able to play the game MY way and not be bound by arbitrary limitations. I say arbitrary because that decision to kill Naramon does not make sense. I'm sure the game will continue being fun to me, there is still a lot of freedom, yes this is still a space ninja power fantasy, however I just don't understand the reasoning behind these nerfs.

Same thing with Zenurik tree. From what I gathered, I understand that some players have infinite energy. So what? Big deal. Who cares? I don't. In fact I enjoy doing missions along with such powerful teammates. More chances of succeeding, and less work for me. Grineer Trooper #775456687 doesn't seem to mind nor care at all either, in fact I havent seen a single forum post from him complaining about Zenurik, as far as he's concerned there was no imbalance issue. Besides, these players have obviously invested a lot of time and/or money in the game in order to get where they are. One does not simply wake up one day with min/maxed gear and Zenurik school, so I say more power to these players, kudos to them.

So... back to my initial issue: what should I do about those useless Naramon points? Should I pick them up one by one, dust them off, turn them *@##&#0*6;@# sideways, and stick em up my candy arse? Because that seems to be the message I'm getting.

P.S: you should totally nerf orange & red crits, these things are way too much fun. Also while we're at it, I'd like to send a list of things to nerf because they are either too good or too fun. Top priority is of course rivens mods, these abominations need to be removed from the game entirely. They're just too powered, in a manner which is over. Second top priority is that notorious subset of players who seem to have a lot of fun playing Ember and using Tigris Prime, you better do something about that. I don't want them to enjoy this game, I don't want them to feel all-powerful, I want them to feel miserable, frustrated, and to suffer just like I do.

Please think about it, DE.

And please don't take this post too seriously, I'm salty but after all it's just a game, so it's not THAT big of a deal. Piece of advice DE; don't take this game too seriously either. Stop reading too much into things. It is clear from reading the forums that what players want out of your game is more freedom and less frustration. Give players more gameplay, and more ways to experience gameplay. Give players more viable options, make stuff more interesting or engaging. But bear in mind, this is not Counter strike, you can't just flatout remove stuff like that, especially options that are cool, popular, viable, and far from being overpowered, let alone broken. 

TLDR: I'm a bit disappointed by these focus changes. Just because something is powerful does not mean it is overpowered. These are two different notions. The game is still fun to me despite the overdosed nerfs however I wish I discovered this game sooner, I wish I had more time to enjoy the game pre-PoE.

[CHIEF-117]

When will they get rid of the armastice? I really miss my solar rail which I poured alot of recources into. I also miss going into combat with my clan mates vs others.

[[DE]Rebecca]

On 9/29/2017 at 3:48 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Wednesday October 11 Update:  

Tenno! We have made some changes to:

Naramon!
The melee damage increase residual is now 'Power Spike: Melee Combo Counter will now decay by (at max) 5 over time'.

The Update notes will bring word on release - everything is indeed always subject to change!

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

[PsiWarp]

1 minute ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Thanks Rebecca! But will going into Operator pause our Warframe's melee combo counter? That would be great.

[TruthArbiter]

1 minute ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Thanks for the update, but what exactly does "decay by 5 over time." mean? Combo counter timer increased by 5 sec or what?

[Kinetos]

1 minute ago, TruthArbiter said:

Thanks for the update, but what exactly does "decay by 5 over time." mean? Combo counter timer increased by 5 sec or what?

Instead of deleting itself 100% when it expires it will drop gradually. 

[Cicasajt]

2 minutes ago, TruthArbiter said:

Thanks for the update, but what exactly does "decay by 5 over time." mean? Combo counter timer increased by 5 sec or what?

maybe it means what it is? i hope not. that would be like if u have 7 on combo you only lose 5 and you will have 2 until it decays once again

[GreyEnneract]

5 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Now I suggest replacing the Void Hunter (See through walls) node completely. A multitude of things such as Animal Instinct, Enemy Sense, and Kavats make it irrelevant.

[Melos-mevim]

9 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

https://www.myinstants.com/instant/hallelujah/

 

my reaction to seeing that

[PsiWarp]

1 minute ago, GreyEnneract said:

Now I suggest replacing the Void Hunter (See through walls) node completely. A multitude of things such as Animal Instinct, Enemy Sense, and Kavats make it irrelevant.

Nah, the Codex Scanner and Synthesis Scanner are more on par with what that node does. None of the those you've listed reveal actual enemy silhouettes to you (Kavats used to, not anymore).

[BiancaRoughfin]

Staff Post!

So Melee Combos now wont vanish all at once but slowly overtime, is that what i read? :3

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, PsiWarp said:

Nah, the Codex Scanner and Synthesis Scanner are more on par with what that node does. None of the those you've listed reveal actual enemy silhouettes to you (Kavats used to, not anymore).

Enemy direction is now displayed on the minimap, making what this node would be used for (going undetected) nullified. Meanwhile actual team stealth is on Unairu when it's apparently the "Paladin like" school.

[ReyGanso]

18 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Update notes when =) <3

[PsiWarp]

1 minute ago, GreyEnneract said:

Enemy direction is now displayed on the minimap, making what this node would be used for (going undetected) nullified. Meanwhile actual team stealth is on Unairu when it's apparently the "Paladin like" school.

Unairu's a mishmash of stuff from the other schools, borrowing too much and offering too little of its own niche. But hey if it's fun and effective I'll use it.

Outside of stealth runs, seeing what type of enemy you're dealing with before they can shoot you might have its uses. Turn round a corner and a Nox blasts you with boogers before you can react, little scenarios like that.

[GreyEnneract]

1 minute ago, PsiWarp said:

Unairu's a mishmash of stuff from the other schools, borrowing too much and offering too little of its own niche. But hey if it's fun and effective I'll use it.

Outside of stealth runs, seeing what type of enemy you're dealing with before they can shoot you might have its uses. Turn round a corner and a Nox blasts you with boogers before you can react, little scenarios like that.

Reflecting 25% of enemy damage when enemies deal null to eachother, giving only 20% armor (one to your frame, one to your operator) which is useless on most frames, giving DR only to stealthed allies when stealth frames don't take damage 99% of the time in the first place. Unairu is still horrid and will be carried by spamming it's bullet attractor, just like how Mag is carried by it. Not to mention the random wisp, and again the ally stealth. Yet they give the globe shield to Vazarin and not Unairu. Classic. Both cases very unfitting and out of place. 

For your second point, the enemy is still right there on your mini map. If someone can't react when knowing an enemy is there already then going into void mode and only being able to see them while in void mode won't help them. They have other issues they need to sort out if that's the case.

[Aeiroth]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Great! Wonderful! Magnificent!

Now how about fixing Unairu? You depict it as a mountain that will remain standing even after everything else has been lost to time, but I can tell you right now, it's the first one to die at this point. We've all suggested making the armor increase a flat additive upgrade to make squishy frames less so and tanky frame a bit more so without breaking balance. At the very least TRY this one. As for all the other stuff, why the hell is invisibility a Unairu ability? That's AVOIDING damage, not standing against it and is more suited Naramon.

Honestly, at least tell us if the schools still has themes or not, such as Madurai being Offensive, Vazarin being Restorative and Unairu being Defense or if you've done away with this. It sure seems like that is the case now since there are uncharacteristic abilities with for all the school now.

[Urlan]

Shame to lose melee damage for more melee spamming but I appreciate the update to keep us informed.