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[DE]Rebecca

Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0

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On 10/7/2017 at 12:28 AM, Archwizard said:

 

NARAMON

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Starting node (RESIDUAL):
Affinity Spike (6 ranks) - Increased Affinity from Melee kills

Branch 1 (RESIDUAL):
Power Spike (4 ranks) - Increased melee damage

Branch 2:
Executing Dash (4 ranks) - Instead of throwing enemies, Void Dash opens them to finishers and increases finisher damage taken
Surging Dash (6 ranks) - Void Dash base damage and damage radius (ie width) are increased

Branch 3:
Disorienting Blast (4 ranks) - Void Blast has a chance to Confuse enemies (a la Mind Spike, Chaos, Irradiating Disarm)
Disarming Blast (6 ranks) - Void Blast has a chance to Disarm enemies (a la Radial Disarm, Nyx's passive)

Branch 4:
Void Stalker (4 ranks) - Entering Void Mode increases melee Crit Chance (stacks a la Point Strike) over 5 sec, but this bonus diminishes over 20 sec upon exiting Void Mode
Void Hunter (4 ranks) - Enemies within range can be seen through walls while in Void Mode (a la Zenith)

Branch 5 (WAY-BOUND):
Mind Step (4 ranks + capstone) - Increased Operator movement speed (including slide speed)
Mind Sprint (4 ranks + capstone) - Increased Void Dash travel distance

 

Wow there...... Wait a minute Ladies and gentlemen.  Ive been following this focus change thing from afar but here comes a time when a man has no choice but to put a palm to his face.

DE, you know Ive put money into your game, and I know that my opinion does not have more value than any other player. Here I am providing angry feedback and hoping my concerns will be heard.

I wish I could find an appropriate wording, unfortunately there are no other ways to put it, this tree sucks.

First of all, I chose Naramon because of the lore and didn't know at all what to expect from it or any other tree. I was pleasantly suprised to realize that Naramon would fit my playstyle perfectly (fast-paced melee, hit-and-run style). No need to mention I was having a lot of fun as a stealthy ninja slashing bad guys left & right with powerful strikes.

I have finally found a playstyle that I really like and ive been enjoying this enhanced aspect of the game for about 2 months but now the whole focus system is changing, the whole Naramon tree is changing, and all my Naramon points will be refunded. That's nice. Except for one detail; these points are basically USELESS to me now that the tree is halfway DEAD.

I'm not going to go into details as to why half these abilities suck, just take a look at their descriptions, screams "CLUNKY" to the max and I can't picture myself using most of those during frantic combat, especially if I have to recast them over & over, or every 20 seconds. Anyway here we go:

Executing dash - requires getting out or warframe, doing a void dash, seems useless without Surging dash

Disorienting/Disarming blast - not only requires getting out of armor, and performing a void blast, but it only has a CHANCE to confuse / disarm enemies. What kind of crap is that? Invest hundreds of thousands of points, go out of your way to trigger it, in order to get A CHANCE at something.

Void Stalker - Requires getting out of warframe, and having to sneak around like a weasel, in order to get a mere 20 second crit buff?? 
Void Hunter - Seems useless, especially in the freaking Plains

Mind Step/ Mind Sprint - Operator-only, makes it totally useless for frames, AND should be baseline anyway.

Two questions:

1. Are you telling me Ive been chasing those yellow orbs for nothing? Do you have any idea of how much time I spent doing that.

2. Why did you have to nerf that tree to the ground? I'm not even exagerrating here, and I honestly fail to see what was the issue. Was it too much fun??? Or, maybe was it too powerful? In relation to what exactly? Look, these players are having way too much fun killing mobs made out of pixels, let's ruin their playstyle. This thing they're using is obscenely overpowered, we have to kill it.

Listen, I'm going to explain to you (DE) what logic is. The reason why some players use Naramon is because they find it fun, it increases their enjoyement of the game. Otherwise if they weren't having fun, then they would simply use another school, OR refrain from using the whole focus sytem, OR they would stop playing the game entirely. Gutting an entire mechanic which brought untold hours of fun to your loyal players is the definition of "no fun allowed".

Do you want players to have fun or not? Isn't that the point of the whole game? a pve co-op game with space ninjas? Why do you have to go out of your way to nerf fun stuff and piss off players in the process, in a casual pve game of all things? When you think about it, how can anything be considered overpowered to the point of removing it in the context of a casual co-op pve video game. I'd like to know who the heck actually complained about that?

Are there really people out there who complain about having the OPTION to kill monsters more easily in one way or the other?

Are there really people out there who don't appreciate the fact that other players might have a different definition of what's fun and what's not?

Are there really people out there complaining that the game is too easy for them because they CHOSE to use something powerful?

Unless I'm totally unaware of some critical detail pertaining to the situation, I fail to see how is one dude turning invisible detrimental to anything in this game? The only area where invisiblity can be a issue is PvP, as far as I'm concerned it is an entirely different topic and i don't know enough about it. We're talking about PVE here, and we're not talking about competitive pve either like those World of Warcraft clans. Besides, if anything, when something is deemed broken, you simply fix it, ADJUST IT, or worst case scenario you adjust the "E" part of "PvE". You just don't kill the whole mechanic and outright bury it.

Anyway, why didn't you buff the other trees, and make them more desirable, instead of gimping Naramon? I was enjoying this game precisely because of its casual appeal, being able to play the game MY way and not be bound by arbitrary limitations. I say arbitrary because that decision to kill Naramon does not make sense. I'm sure the game will continue being fun to me, there is still a lot of freedom, yes this is still a space ninja power fantasy, however I just don't understand the reasoning behind these nerfs.

Same thing with Zenurik tree. From what I gathered, I understand that some players have infinite energy. So what? Big deal. Who cares? I don't. In fact I enjoy doing missions along with such powerful teammates. More chances of succeeding, and less work for me. Grineer Trooper #775456687 doesn't seem to mind nor care at all either, in fact I havent seen a single forum post from him complaining about Zenurik, as far as he's concerned there was no imbalance issue. Besides, these players have obviously invested a lot of time and/or money in the game in order to get where they are. One does not simply wake up one day with min/maxed gear and Zenurik school, so I say more power to these players, kudos to them.

So... back to my initial issue: what should I do about those useless Naramon points? Should I pick them up one by one, dust them off, turn them *@##&#0*6;@# sideways, and stick em up my candy arse? Because that seems to be the message I'm getting.

P.S: you should totally nerf orange & red crits, these things are way too much fun. Also while we're at it, I'd like to send a list of things to nerf because they are either too good or too fun. Top priority is of course rivens mods, these abominations need to be removed from the game entirely. They're just too powered, in a manner which is over. Second top priority is that notorious subset of players who seem to have a lot of fun playing Ember and using Tigris Prime, you better do something about that. I don't want them to enjoy this game, I don't want them to feel all-powerful, I want them to feel miserable, frustrated, and to suffer just like I do.

Please think about it, DE.

And please don't take this post too seriously, I'm salty but after all it's just a game, so it's not THAT big of a deal. Piece of advice DE; don't take this game too seriously either. Stop reading too much into things. It is clear from reading the forums that what players want out of your game is more freedom and less frustration. Give players more gameplay, and more ways to experience gameplay. Give players more viable options, make stuff more interesting or engaging. But bear in mind, this is not Counter strike, you can't just flatout remove stuff like that, especially options that are cool, popular, viable, and far from being overpowered, let alone broken. 

TLDR: I'm a bit disappointed by these focus changes. Just because something is powerful does not mean it is overpowered. These are two different notions. The game is still fun to me despite the overdosed nerfs however I wish I discovered this game sooner, I wish I had more time to enjoy the game pre-PoE.

Edited by MayssonFairbanks
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When will they get rid of the armastice? I really miss my solar rail which I poured alot of recources into. I also miss going into combat with my clan mates vs others.

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On 9/29/2017 at 3:48 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Wednesday October 11 Update:  

Tenno! We have made some changes to:

Naramon!
The melee damage increase residual is now 'Power Spike: Melee Combo Counter will now decay by (at max) 5 over time'.

The Update notes will bring word on release - everything is indeed always subject to change!

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

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1 minute ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Thanks Rebecca! But will going into Operator pause our Warframe's melee combo counter? That would be great.

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1 minute ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Thanks for the update, but what exactly does "decay by 5 over time." mean? Combo counter timer increased by 5 sec or what?

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1 minute ago, TruthArbiter said:

Thanks for the update, but what exactly does "decay by 5 over time." mean? Combo counter timer increased by 5 sec or what?

Instead of deleting itself 100% when it expires it will drop gradually. 

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2 minutes ago, TruthArbiter said:

Thanks for the update, but what exactly does "decay by 5 over time." mean? Combo counter timer increased by 5 sec or what?

maybe it means what it is? i hope not. that would be like if u have 7 on combo you only lose 5 and you will have 2 until it decays once again

Edited by Cicasajt

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5 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Now I suggest replacing the Void Hunter (See through walls) node completely. A multitude of things such as Animal Instinct, Enemy Sense, and Kavats make it irrelevant.

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1 minute ago, GreyEnneract said:

Now I suggest replacing the Void Hunter (See through walls) node completely. A multitude of things such as Animal Instinct, Enemy Sense, and Kavats make it irrelevant.

Nah, the Codex Scanner and Synthesis Scanner are more on par with what that node does. None of the those you've listed reveal actual enemy silhouettes to you (Kavats used to, not anymore).

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Staff Post!
dZLU9REex5CUM.gif

So Melee Combos now wont vanish all at once but slowly overtime, is that what i read? :3

Edited by BiancaRoughfin
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Just now, PsiWarp said:

Nah, the Codex Scanner and Synthesis Scanner are more on par with what that node does. None of the those you've listed reveal actual enemy silhouettes to you (Kavats used to, not anymore).

Enemy direction is now displayed on the minimap, making what this node would be used for (going undetected) nullified. Meanwhile actual team stealth is on Unairu when it's apparently the "Paladin like" school.

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18 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Update notes when =) <3

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1 minute ago, GreyEnneract said:

Enemy direction is now displayed on the minimap, making what this node would be used for (going undetected) nullified. Meanwhile actual team stealth is on Unairu when it's apparently the "Paladin like" school.

Unairu's a mishmash of stuff from the other schools, borrowing too much and offering too little of its own niche. But hey if it's fun and effective I'll use it.

Outside of stealth runs, seeing what type of enemy you're dealing with before they can shoot you might have its uses. Turn round a corner and a Nox blasts you with boogers before you can react, little scenarios like that.

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1 minute ago, PsiWarp said:

Unairu's a mishmash of stuff from the other schools, borrowing too much and offering too little of its own niche. But hey if it's fun and effective I'll use it.

Outside of stealth runs, seeing what type of enemy you're dealing with before they can shoot you might have its uses. Turn round a corner and a Nox blasts you with boogers before you can react, little scenarios like that.

Reflecting 25% of enemy damage when enemies deal null to eachother, giving only 20% armor (one to your frame, one to your operator) which is useless on most frames, giving DR only to stealthed allies when stealth frames don't take damage 99% of the time in the first place. Unairu is still horrid and will be carried by spamming it's bullet attractor, just like how Mag is carried by it. Not to mention the random wisp, and again the ally stealth. Yet they give the globe shield to Vazarin and not Unairu. Classic. Both cases very unfitting and out of place. 

For your second point, the enemy is still right there on your mini map. If someone can't react when knowing an enemy is there already then going into void mode and only being able to see them while in void mode won't help them. They have other issues they need to sort out if that's the case.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Great! Wonderful! Magnificent!

Now how about fixing Unairu? You depict it as a mountain that will remain standing even after everything else has been lost to time, but I can tell you right now, it's the first one to die at this point. We've all suggested making the armor increase a flat additive upgrade to make squishy frames less so and tanky frame a bit more so without breaking balance. At the very least TRY this one. As for all the other stuff, why the hell is invisibility a Unairu ability? That's AVOIDING damage, not standing against it and is more suited Naramon.

Honestly, at least tell us if the schools still has themes or not, such as Madurai being Offensive, Vazarin being Restorative and Unairu being Defense or if you've done away with this. It sure seems like that is the case now since there are uncharacteristic abilities with for all the school now.

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Shame to lose melee damage for more melee spamming but I appreciate the update to keep us informed.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

That’s interesting! More involved than just a straight up damage buff, slightly less obviously powerful in the immediate sense, but far, far more thematically appropriate for Naramon. 

 

Also, it’s a really, really, really good buff. Please don’t revert it!

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I'm not asking you to tell me if it comes out today but for peace of mind would you be able to tell me if it isn't today? So I'm not checking the forums every 10 minutes out of paranoia.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

Sorry, I'm a little slow

@[DE]Rebecca does this mean the team has currently decided that instead of allowing Naramon to obtain extra melee damage it has instead opted to give Naramon a way to keep its melee combo counter up longer by only making it decrease by 5 as opposed to losing everything when the Melee Combo Counter time runs out?

Edited by Vindicative

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46 minutes ago, Aeiroth said:

Great! Wonderful! Magnificent!

Now how about fixing Unairu? You depict it as a mountain that will remain standing even after everything else has been lost to time, but I can tell you right now, it's the first one to die at this point. We've all suggested making the armor increase a flat additive upgrade to make squishy frames less so and tanky frame a bit more so without breaking balance. At the very least TRY this one. As for all the other stuff, why the hell is invisibility a Unairu ability? That's AVOIDING damage, not standing against it and is more suited Naramon.

Honestly, at least tell us if the schools still has themes or not, such as Madurai being Offensive, Vazarin being Restorative and Unairu being Defense or if you've done away with this. It sure seems like that is the case now since there are uncharacteristic abilities with for all the school now.

Well, the themes of the schools are:

Unairu: Pure defensive - a mountain stronghold standing firm against attack

Zenurik: Pure offense - overwhelming force (what looks like hard mineral/crystal)

Madurai: Swift, savage offense - aggressive like the force of wind, overwhelming with speed

Naramon: Stealth and slow/stead - like a tree growing roots under the surface, it's stealthy.

Vazarin: Balance of offense and defense - ebbs and flows like a tide, or like the crests and troughs of a wave

It's more than just offensive, restorative, defensive, etc. The schools' descriptions are all combat focus, and not just in terms of stats. Unairu reads like a shield. Zenurik reads like a hammer. Madurai reads like a fast, aggressive, savage berserker. Naramon reads like a ninja or someone who targets an enemy's weak points to weaken then. Vazarin reads like your typical Medieval knight who can use his weapon to attack and defend and counter an opponent's attacks. IMO, Focus has never truly reflected this. And Focus 2.0 reflects it even less. I'd also like for the schools to be based around the themes of the schools.

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7 hours ago, LSG501 said:

1...1 extra energy isn't really more powerful when you only get it for 30 seconds at a time without micromanaging a void dash to keep it going versus the current/old system of 4 per second constantly.... that 30 extra energy is basically covering the time it would take to do pop out the operator, void dash, run into bubble and back into frame etc if they'd have just left it at 4 per second.... the change just seems like they're trying to 'force' us to use the operator unnecessarily.  edit: Yes they may have said about stacking it but I'm not expecting that to happen because they'll likely see that as overpowered.

2... to be fair if you can complete a mission before EO launches you don't really need it...and I usually run zenurik.

3... which is fine but this is just going to benefit frames like ember etc who have always on abilities active (assuming it doesn't get disabled with channelled abilities because I bet DE hasn't even thought of this) meaning we'll likely see an influx of ember (and the likes) with higher power/range with lower efficiency builds at higher levels doing the same thing as they do at lower levels.... that's going to be so much fun running from point a to point b...

4... I haven't seen anything in the devstreams which show using an operator is a better tactic than using a warframe, while the operator may indeed be an improvement over the current one it still seems like an unnecessary addition considering how long it will take to get all the focus points to 'max out' an operator. 

 

 

  1. Uh...I'm sorry? You think it takes 7-8 seconds to use transference, void dash, and summon your warframe again? The bubble appears where you land. Your warframe appears on top of you when you exit operator mode. You literally just have to void dash and then press 5 again. Like I said, this will happen accidentally while you're farming kuva. As seen in devbuild streams, the entire process takes under a second on a bad day. "Micromanage" what? Refreshing a buff every 30 seconds? A lot of them have shorter timers than that.
  2. This is usually covered by dropping energy restores at the start of the mission, which is frankly a waste of resources. And soon, completely unnecessary.
  3. I highly doubt that. It's regen. I'm pretty sure it has the same restrictions as all other sources of energy regen, like Energy Siphon, Octavia's Inspiration buff, and Energy Overflow. Besides, even if that weren't the case, it's still 50% extra energy from pickups. That's nothing to scoff at.
  4. No, you're right, you haven't. You've seen a developer build with barely functional systems and bugs being ironed out, and players with no experience in the new system (like everyone, because it's a new system) trying to get a feel for how to use it.

Let me put it this way. Trinity lacks damage and CC, right? Sure, she can stun one or two enemies at a time, and she has that weird 1-2 combo that only really works in a min duration build. Ultimately, she has nothing to control actual crowds, and when it comes to damage, her weapons do the work. But if she's in Vazarin for the affinity range, now she has access to an AoE stun and what looks to be a physical barrier that pushes enemies back as it grows. If she's in Madurai, she gets free bonus damage and an on-demand mini radial blind. Naramon? Irradiating Disarm and Savage Silence. The question is not "why use Naramon when there's Banshee or Loki?" or "why use Madurai when there's Excal?". It's "what does my operator offer me that my chosen warframe doesn't have?" And depending on your frame and your willingness to put time into focus, the answer is potentially "a lot".

7 hours ago, Ketec said:

Operator cancels stealth. So i have to switch to a visible operator mode, dash across the room to activate energy, switch back, cast stealth again - and hope i wasn't seen.

And unless they give operators some hey armor or shields and hp and make them scale with warframe HP/shield mods - they are squishy, even warframes take heavy damage sometimes.

What? No it doesn't. Besides, if you're Loki, invisibility has to wear off before you can recast it anyway, and Ivara's is channeled (blocking regen) unless you tag an ally with a cloaking arrow and walk next to them.

What do you mean, "unless"? No shields so far, and I'm pretty sure warframe mods are irrelevant (why would you even demand something that specific?), but health and armor, yes. How much armor is still unknown, but Vazarin's contribution to the universal passive pool is a 500% operator health increase, plus health regen. That's more health than all of my most used warframe builds. Plus, you know, they're still invulnerable in void mode, and have all sorts of CC and survival utility available to them.

2 hours ago, TruthArbiter said:

Thanks for the update, but what exactly does "decay by 5 over time." mean? Combo counter timer increased by 5 sec or what?

When the timer runs out, the combo counter decreases by 5 instead of dropping to 0 instantly, and the timer resets. Basically, you lose 5 hits per 3 seconds (or per 13-15 seconds if you have a combo mod installed). This is the same thing they're doing to sniper rifles (combo counter goes down by 1 per 2 seconds rather than just falling off), and the same way that Arca Scisco works currently.

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18 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:
  1. Uh...I'm sorry? You think it takes 7-8 seconds to use transference, void dash, and summon your warframe again? The bubble appears where you land. Your warframe appears on top of you when you exit operator mode. You literally just have to void dash and then press 5 again. Like I said, this will happen accidentally while you're farming kuva. As seen in devbuild streams, the entire process takes under a second on a bad day. "Micromanage" what? Refreshing a buff every 30 seconds? A lot of them have shorter timers than that.
  2. This is usually covered by dropping energy restores at the start of the mission, which is frankly a waste of resources. And soon, completely unnecessary.
  3. I highly doubt that. It's regen. I'm pretty sure it has the same restrictions as all other sources of energy regen, like Energy Siphon, Octavia's Inspiration buff, and Energy Overflow. Besides, even if that weren't the case, it's still 50% extra energy from pickups. That's nothing to scoff at.
  4. No, you're right, you haven't. You've seen a developer build with barely functional systems and bugs being ironed out, and players with no experience in the new system (like everyone, because it's a new system) trying to get a feel for how to use it.

1.... unless you have some timer going to get it at EXACTLY 30 seconds all while having the perfect moment to eject etc, ie not in the middle of killing stuff, then yes it could quite easily take over 5 seconds to do the process to give you the energy regen again.  What the dev's are showing us and how it actually ends up for the players in game is not always the same, the dev's are doing very specific things during their video's to ensure a 'positive' viewing experience is put forward.  You've also just shown how 'pointless' the process is if you're 'literally just have to void dash and then press 5 again'..... why even have it if that's all you're going to do.

2.... not so sure this mechanism will be quicker than popping an energy pizza or 2, they're relatively cheap for 'end game players'.  1 pizza gives and instant 100 energy the instant it's put down...it would take 20 seconds for the same amount from the regen and assuming the dev's have continued with the same restrictions as current zenurik, frames which 'require' the energy pizza won't be able to get the regen if they end up pressing their 4.

3... I'm not quite sure you're seeing my point on this one....

4... um you do realise those 'players' (warframe stream partners in reality) trying to get a feel for it had an excessive amount of focus at their disposal so could basically level out each focus tree (which they did, they couldn't share tress due to lacking an eidolon shard)....

18 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Let me put it this way. Trinity lacks damage and CC, right? Sure, she can stun one or two enemies at a time, and she has that weird 1-2 combo that only really works in a min duration build. Ultimately, she has nothing to control actual crowds, and when it comes to damage, her weapons do the work. But if she's in Vazarin for the affinity range, now she has access to an AoE stun and what looks to be a physical barrier that pushes enemies back as it grows. If she's in Madurai, she gets free bonus damage and an on-demand mini radial blind. Naramon? Irradiating Disarm and Savage Silence. The question is not "why use Naramon when there's Banshee or Loki?" or "why use Madurai when there's Excal?". It's "what does my operator offer me that my chosen warframe doesn't have?" And depending on your frame and your willingness to put time into focus, the answer is potentially "a lot".

When was the last time you actually saw someone use a purely support frame like trinity in a public match.... it's very rare to see one because most people in the game are more focused on killing stuff rather than being the support frame.

It's also all very well you saying use x focus school with y frame but you do realise that requires focus points for each of those schools.... many players have only focused on one school so will be stuck with their original choice unless they get more lenses and as such start from zero again. 

Edited by LSG501

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that's because most people are selfish. But when im running with a noob or clan member i happily play support role. true there is some team spirit on endless missions but generally you find it's every tenno fir him/her self unfortunately. I'm not saying everyone is but they are a rare a precious few that do have the team spirit. 

Edited by WaylanderG

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OK so Naramon loses, at worst, 5 combo ticks per second rather than, say, 1300 instantly.

So Naramon is now extremely potent. Great.

What about Zenurik? Melee channeling is still a joke.

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