Saryn: Still Waiting For A Rework FIX (Rework 2.0)

[TKDancer]

17 hours ago, Thaylien said:

But she's not really anymore?

so toxic lash is meant to be mostly useless?, if it worked on all weapons i could see that, but her 3rd skill is all about melee and synergizing with spores to get some energy+guaranteed pops

 

 

as for miasma, i think base duration raised + corrosive procs, i dont think guaranteed full armor removal after at least 10 seconds would be too strong considering what oberon can do with reckoning+hallowed ground, my oberon can remove full armor in 2 casts of reckoning over a decent area if hallowed ground is up

i dont think it would be a problem at low level cause spores is already enough to destroy most thing on the star-chart

on the other hand, i do agree that spore doing toxic while retaining the viral status would be a good change

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, TKDancer said:

so toxic lash is meant to be mostly useless?, if it worked on all weapons i could see that, but her 3rd skill is all about melee and synergizing with spores to get some energy+guaranteed pops

No, you misunderstand, Toxic Lash is still just as effective, but DE pointed out that they deliberately lowered her armour from the rather amazingly high stat it used to be and adjusted all her powers to make her more focused on casting instead of being a tank. She's not supposed to be able to go pure melee tank anymore, she has to use her casting far more actively in order to get the same results.

[TKDancer]

9 hours ago, Thaylien said:

No, you misunderstand, Toxic Lash is still just as effective, but DE pointed out that they deliberately lowered her armour from the rather amazingly high stat it used to be and adjusted all her powers to make her more focused on casting instead of being a tank. She's not supposed to be able to go pure melee tank anymore, she has to use her casting far more actively in order to get the same results.

how can a skill meant to buff one's melee attacks remain effective when said frame cant survive in melee? and even as a caste she isnt that good as spores is mainly a viral debuff and miasma is a joke when it comes to damage

 

that isnt making a lot of sense

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 minute ago, TKDancer said:

how can a skill meant to buff one's melee attacks remain effective when said frame cant survive in melee? and even as a caste she isnt that good as spores is mainly a viral debuff and miasma is a joke when it comes to damage

First, because a frame not having the tankiness is not the issue, the ability is good for the guaranteed Toxin procs and energy restore when combined with spores, while damage always caps out. You've missed the point of Lash if you think the damage buff is the main draw of this ability. If you want to survive at high level then your style of play, CC and utility are more important than your damage, it also helps if you use the fact that this is a co-op game to exploit the different frames, with others having better CC or supporting you as you support them by weakening the enemy. You cannot say that the frame isn't viable just because she can't solo to a level where 90% of players would struggle with any other frame too.

And as a caster? No other frame can literally half an enemy's health in a single cast, much less make that half-health proc spread to others in range on death/on popping a spore/on hitting it with Lash, and Miasma, when modded for equal strength as other frames, can do triple the damage of Avalanche, Reckoning, Crush and all the other radial single-cast 4's in the game just by having the Viral and Toxin procs on the enemy before you use it. Miasma can, when modded right and the bonus damage for having active procs, count up to 50% more damage than it ever used to as a Nuke build before her rework.

I'm sorry for making these comments back to you so negative, but you're just not seeing the possibilities with your own negativity.

[Gurpgork]

10 hours ago, Thaylien said:

No, you misunderstand, Toxic Lash is still just as effective, but DE pointed out that they deliberately lowered her armour from the rather amazingly high stat it used to be and adjusted all her powers to make her more focused on casting instead of being a tank. She's not supposed to be able to go pure melee tank anymore, she has to use her casting far more actively in order to get the same results.

They reduced her health to 125 from 150, but actually raised her armor from 155 to 175. 

Granted, I thought the armor buff was more significant than this, but I decided that it was worth doing some math to try and see what happened. I even threw in some comparisons with Saryn Prime, and using Steel Fiber. 

Spoiler

Without Steel Fiber

Old Saryn: 155 armor on base 150 health. 155 armor translates to 34.07% damage reduction on 1,110 health, equating to 1,687.2 EHP.

New Saryn: 175 armor on base 125 health. 175 armor translates to 36.84% damage reduction on 925 health, equating to 1,461.5 EHP.

Saryn Prime: 225 armor on base 125 health. 225 armor translates to 42.86% damage reduction on 925 health, equating to 1,618.75 EHP.

With Steel Fiber

Old Saryn: 325 armor on base 150 health. 325 armor translates to 52.04% damage reduction on 1,110 health, equating to 2,308.8 EHP.

New Saryn: 367 armor on base 125 health. 367 armor translates to 55.06% damage reduction on 925 health, equating to 2,062.75 EHP.

Saryn Prime: 472 armor on base 125 health. 472 armor translates to 61.17% damage reduction on 925 health, equating to 2,377.25 EHP.

So yes, her EHP is lower than it was before the rework. Even Saryn Prime's EHP is lower than regular Saryn's was before the rework, unless you run Steel Fiber, in which case it's slightly higher. 

However, thanks to the higher armor, healing effects are more useful on both Saryn and Saryn prime because each and every one of their hitpoints is more powerful by courtesy of their better damage reduction. 

With that being said, however, I don't think that Saryn ever really had high enough EHP to be all that good of a tank. Losing 230 EHP on regular Saryn is definitely noticeable, but it's certainly not enough to make the difference between being able to facetank high level enemies and not. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Gurpgork

[Birdframe_Prime]

40 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

With that being said, however, I don't think that Saryn ever really had high enough EHP to be all that good of a tank. Losing 230 EHP on regular Saryn is definitely noticeable, but it's certainly not enough to make the difference between being able to facetank high level enemies and not. 

Saryn, to me, wasn't ever a melee frame, she was a purely utilitarian Nuke frame. I just fell in love with the rest of her kit after the rework is all. But the EHP drop was terrible because she was a caster. She was pretty much the caster with the highest EHP in the game and on top of that one of the best nuke frames at the time.

So, when they took away her nuke, and then on top of that reworked all her stats to so that you could mod her to be all that extra tanky? It was a hit to all of us, one that we haven't really forgiven.

I mean, sure, when I got used to the new kit, it was amazing, but I lament the loss of those base stats.

[TKDancer]

On 10/6/2017 at 1:17 PM, Thaylien said:

First, because a frame not having the tankiness is not the issue, the ability is good for the guaranteed Toxin procs and energy restore when combined with spores, while damage always caps out. You've missed the point of Lash if you think the damage buff is the main draw of this ability. If you want to survive at high level then your style of play, CC and utility are more important than your damage, it also helps if you use the fact that this is a co-op game to exploit the different frames, with others having better CC or supporting you as you support them by weakening the enemy. You cannot say that the frame isn't viable just because she can't solo to a level where 90% of players would struggle with any other frame too.

And as a caster? No other frame can literally half an enemy's health in a single cast, much less make that half-health proc spread to others in range on death/on popping a spore/on hitting it with Lash, and Miasma, when modded for equal strength as other frames, can do triple the damage of Avalanche, Reckoning, Crush and all the other radial single-cast 4's in the game just by having the Viral and Toxin procs on the enemy before you use it. Miasma can, when modded right and the bonus damage for having active procs, count up to 50% more damage than it ever used to as a Nuke build before her rework.

I'm sorry for making these comments back to you so negative, but you're just not seeing the possibilities with your own negativity.

well i dont see myself being negative but whatevs 

 

anyways, tankiness IS an issue with saryn, how can i properly take advantage of the guaranteed toxic procs and extra energy on melee hits when im squishy and risk dying when going into melee range to make use of her melee ability? and miasma's damage has no scaling, so even with the 200% extra dmg and high power strength it still does nothing vs high level enemies(even sortie 2 enemies start to not care about, specially if grineer), if miasma at least had good CC id complain less, but nah, it gives me a 1-2 second stun that costs 100 energy at base

 

and idk why u bother comparing miasma to those abilities when we have other abilities that do similar things, but are better than it despite not being 4s(hi mallet!), also miasma cant strip armor, while reckoning can(with around 190% PS all u need is 2 casts for full removal) and has much better CC, same for avalanche and even crush(tho crush doesnt remove armor)

 

also,,,, i never said saryn isnt viable, i use quite frequenly and i like her, i just think she needs tweaks to work better

Edited October 8, 2017 by TKDancer

[TKDancer]

~delete~

Edited October 8, 2017 by TKDancer
msitake

[fatpig84]

Doesn't need re-work.
Her 1 and 2 are fine really.

And as a Loki main, I am so used to getting shot at despite decoy being out when I was still new (and no corrupted mods back then)
So i learnt that placement is important. As long you know how to dip out of LOS after you cast Molt or Decoy, you are completely home free.

But Miasma needs a buff. Bring it's range from 15m to 20m does wonders.
100% guaranteed corrosive status proc per tick.
And stun duration last as long as AOE duration giving her more CC.

This will let her scale better. 
 

[Chipputer]

I came into this thread expecting the usual doom and gloom that people like to toss around about the Saryn rework and almost had a fit of laughter when I saw the Brozime video. That was a good joke.

But I see there are plenty of actual Saryn players in here having an actual productive conversation about the merits, and lack thereof, of her rework.

On that subject, however, I really would simply like to see Molt given the same treatment Iron Skin and Snowglobe have been given. 3 seconds, or so, of invuln where it absorbs damage and converts that to health. The rest of her kit works fine for me and I have basically zero issues with it.

[YandereWaifu]

On 10/1/2017 at 1:25 AM, Xylyssa said:

Title.

 

Since now I can't hide from enemies in end-game using Shadow-Step, I'm probably going to get 1-shot by everything that moves since Molt takes aggro away for the 0.2 seconds it is up before being destroyed. Saryn needs to go back to being the up-close Melee-Status frame she used to be, and should be by original design. I'm tired of how powerful her Spore is.

Also Toxic Lash RARELY pops Spores and since every weapon and regular melee also pop Spores Toxic Lash is a trash ability. Meanwhile other frames are getting reworks that make them better and compliment their original playstyles while Saryn mains such as myself are left to play a boring frame with unfair energy cost and literally no payoff (unless you spam Spore ofc because P1TW)

 

She needs to be fixed. Her rework is one of the worsts and I'm getting really tired of waiting for any changes to fly her way to fix the abysmal rework she was given.

This video (Below) is still the best idea for a rework for her I've ever seen. The fact that you guys can't come up with something like this leaves me speechless. At least this guy (who made the video) knows how to make Saryn end-game as well as FUN to use. Give it a watch.

 

are you sure cuz i main toxic lash saryn and the ability works just fine for me, also i wouldnt call it useless as it can regenerate her energy, matter of fact i dont even need zenurik cuz of that regen also why so unhappy about spore being strong, theres people out there that wish some frame abilties like mags 4 was that good.

[Guest]

On 10/8/2017 at 8:40 AM, fatpig84 said:

Doesn't need re-work.
Her 1 and 2 are fine really.

And as a Loki main, I am so used to getting shot at despite decoy being out when I was still new (and no corrupted mods back then)
So i learnt that placement is important. As long you know how to dip out of LOS after you cast Molt or Decoy, you are completely home free.

But Miasma needs a buff. Bring it's range from 15m to 20m does wonders.
100% guaranteed corrosive status proc per tick.
And stun duration last as long as AOE duration giving her more CC.

This will let her scale better. 
 

This. This is all Saryn needs. Saryn is my most played Warframe, and the only lacking ability is her Miasma.

[Ardhanarishvara]

   Alright, so, I've only read the first ten or so posts of the thread and got a general gist of what the issue is. Largely I'd feel that people generally don't understand her after the rework, whereas before she was press 4 to win in a game that didn't go far beyond level 60-80 as the endgame.

   So, instead of criticizing how the rework changed her, I'm going to outline how I understand her abilities, how I use them (especially in the end game) and where I feel she could use some additional tweaks, on top of how I can see potential future builds if she ever does get a second rework.

Be warned, this is long.

1. Spore. Does DoT. This damage is negligible and can be ignored in most cases, I feel, but where its strength lay is in the ability to spread Viral with a guaranteed proc by popping it, constantly keeping many enemies at half health around Saryn for prolonged periods of time. I see absolutely no problems with this ability, especially given Saryn's passive. And it fits rather well into my playstyle, which I'll outline later in this post.
    
2. Molt. Draws enemy fire, (or rather, shucks off all aggro from Saryn onto itself), has no cast animation, and has absolutely abysmal health. Decent ability, but at later game has about as much staying power as a tissue. I feel its augment gets relied upon a bit too much by most people.
    
3. Toxic Lash. Gives Saryn's melee Toxin damage, scaling with power strength, that does NOT merge into any other open primary elements. Also GUARANTEES toxin proc on hit, buffs up blocking strength immensely, has the function of popping spores without having to slam attack or hit that specific body part, and will regenerate some energy for each spore popped. Includes further synergy with Spore: Toxic Lash guarantees Toxin procs on hit, Spores transmit Toxin procs along with them when they spread. You are essentially spreading two status effects to all enemies in range, even if you're only hitting one with melee. Both status effects with lengthened durations. Some of you might start to see where I'm going with this.
    
4. Miasma. Does a DoT in an area with a chance to proc Corrosive with each hit. Does extra damage when viral or toxin are already present. Pops Spores and Molt. You'd figure this means that it's supposed to scale into higher levels? Maybe, but that's the wrong thing to focus on, I think. The ability's real scaling benefits: Momentary STUNNING of enemies for 3s (ceasing fire and causing them to recoil for a short time), can proc Corrosive, a status effect THAT DOES NOT EVER GO AWAY.

   At this point, you might have figured out my strategy. Saryn prolongs status effects and inflicts three of them consistently in wide areas, has abilities that can boost melee damage and blocking, halve enemy heath... so, I use Saryn as a melee-frame, with Condition Overload. Each status effect has an EXPONENTIAL damage multiplier. Saryn keeps 2-3 on all enemies she reaches at all times. 1.6x1.6x1.6, a 4x damage bonus on melee, including whatever her melee counter is on top, and whatever statuses her melee can itself add.

   Furthermore, I do not use Regenerative Molt. I find that there are other mods that scale extremely well with status, such as Healing Return; Healing Return multiplies its value of health regain for each status applied on the enemy. Use faster melee, wider hitting melee for more enemies, or melee that multi-hits, like the Sarpa, and you have a bona-fide healing machine right there that could do more, and faster, than Regenerative Molt ever could. Personally I would recommend Volnus, Arca Titron, Twin Basolk, Lesion, and the aforementioned Sarpa. Avoiding slide attack whips because they do not need nor do they want any of this, plus I find them uninteresting.

My build as it goes right now is:

• Aura: Rejuvenation
  I may forma this to V for Growing Power (status effects cause power strength to increase by 25%) or Steel Charge but right now this is okay.
• Mods: Primed Flow, Rage, Quick Thinking, Primed Continuity, Constitution, Stretch, (Blank), (Blank)
  I mix and match strength, efficiency, and health mods in the blanks at my leisure, still testing out what I feel is best.

   Given that the only two abilities that benefit significantly from power strength are Molt's life (which goes up by a pittance) and life regen with augment (which I don't use), and Toxic Lash's bonus toxin damage and melee blocking power, I'm actually not terribly inclined to use power strength mods, and ESPECIALLY not corrupted ones which will negatively affect the rest of her kit. I might lean towards Power Drift in Exilus for knockdown resistance and extra blocking power bonus, or at most I might use Energy Conversion since you have plenty of time to get a new orb for Toxic Lash, but generally... eh.

   Saryn has a decent chunk of energy, health, and armour to begin with so her health pool goes wild with this build, as well as her energy returns since she is no longer relying solely on the meagre energy recovery of her Toxic Lash/Spore interaction, but can use her increased tankiness itself as a source of energy.

   This build has worked well for me in keeping her alive via the occasional molt for damage redirection combined with miasma for 3s stuns. It was not difficult at all to pit it up against Lv135+ Grineer with something as unassuming as the Twin Basolk before I migrated to Sarpa or Arca Titron. Again, I find that the greatest flaw in this is the fact that Molt is like a sneeze of damage avoidance at higher levels and that, for all the extra blocking power that Toxic Lash provides, it doesn't fix blocking's fundamental issue in that it cannot reduce damage from all sides.

   Ultimately I think Saryn's in a good place. But I do think some abilities could still be tweaked.

1. Molt.
      I think this is the most important addition that I feel needs to be made: a 2 second invulnerability/damage absorption period at the minimum, 3 or 4 maybe I dunno but it needs 2 at least. Like Iron Skin / Snow Globe.
    
2. Toxic Lash.
      Second, and perhaps a little less important, I could see Toxic Lash's blocking bonus being upgraded to "increases blocking strength and covers blindspots", that is to say, pure damage reduction all over, rather than from just the front. Maybe with the bonus of toxin creeping up her body as an impact shield when she blocks, visually. Lastly, maybe change her augment from gas clouds... to altering Toxic Lash into a channeled ability.
   
      This has its own set of benefits. What benefits, you might ask? Well, ordinarily a warframe will become invulnerable when you transfer out of it in Focus 2.0, except in the case of 'frames which are channeling abilities, at which point they gain 90% damage reduction, which would work EXTREMELY WELL with the ability to teleport the warframe to the Operator's position, as you could use this damage reduction while your operator sits in cloak to regain energy via Rage instead. Given how blocking before transferring keeps the blocked state after transference, you might even double up with Toxic Lash's blocking bonus in really, really lategame engagements.
    
3. Miasma.
      Lastly, I've got a few ideas for Miasma. Most basic would be that Power Strength would scale the chance of Corrosive procs, as it does with Oberon's Hallowed Ground. More radical, however, might be increasing the stun/blind duration slightly from 3 to 4, maybe even 5 (does not scale with duration mods), but more importantly during this time it acts as an innate, perhaps weaker Condition Overload damage bonus, blowing up the damage of any weapon used on them for that short period for however many status effects are present. I think maybe 1.2x to 1.3x for each status on the enemy. MAYBE scaling with Power Strength.

...

   Did you think the massive tall of wext was maybe over? Nope. There's still more left. In Focus 1.0, you could easily use this with Shadow Step to lose aggro altogether, but that would impact her ability to cast if reliant on Rage, or you could use it with Zenurik to augment her ability to tank hits and cast more at the same time. Naturally, things are a little different now. Some might even argue, better in some ways. I'm in the latter category of beliefs, especially when it comes to

• NARAMON 2.0:
     That melee decay node is so good. So good. Why? Because it means that a mod like Weeping Wounds can really, really shine now. At 40% status chance, as long as you hit 3.5x melee multiplier, you get 100% status chance and KEEP 100% status chance, and let me tell you 40% status chance is by no means difficult to achieve on a lot of weapons with Drifting Contact and Dual Stat Mods. On some you might even swap out those dual stat mods for regular element mods that go up to 90% or beyond for even more damage output. Heck, some weapons might have decent status AND crit, and allow for some Blood Rush or Gladiator mod set action.
  
     Furthermore, if Toxic Lash's augment was modified to turn it into a channeled ability, you could transfer out and leave Saryn to take damage with minimal chance of death in order to regain energy, and gain additive crit bonus from Void Stalker at the same time, coming back in with a Miasma to stun and regaining all the health you lost in moments from attacking while doling out some insane punishment.
   
• ZENURIK 2.0:
     Energizing Dash. While it's no permanent passive, it IS a stronger bonus than Energy Overflow was, in the right hands at least, and it can stack. But wait, there's more - extra 12 energy from each energy orb, sometimes 25, over 5 seconds.
  
     You'd think that'd be the end of it - it's not. Melee channeling efficiency. _{But why melee channeling?} you might ask. I'll tell you why. ZAWS. ^{But I heard zaws were kind of bad!} I hear you say. Well, well, wellwellwellwellwellwell I have a surprise for you! EXODIA. Craftable Arcanes for Zaws. More specifically, that one Exodia... that gives energy regen after performing a Melee Channel kill! You heard it here first, folks. You can have not one, not two, but three sources of energy regen, plus the bonus from popping spores with Toxic Lash. Suck on them spores, Lv135+ Grineer. That's too much power for any one warframe... but Saryn can handle it. Poppin' spores, coatin' lashes, and castin' blindin' miasma like a madwoman. _{I'm probably building it up too much - I haven't even used it, but I think it'll be rad, maybe lead to Channeling actually being useful. Maybe. hopefully.}
  
     Ultimately the idea here is that you've massively improved your ability to spam 1 and 4 as well as your moment-to-moment survivability, and if you're in a bowl of punches you can transfer out and drop a bubble to let her sit in to build a health buffer while invulnerable. Also Rejuvenation will also regain health during invulnerability, so that's a bonus if you stick with that mod.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Ardhanarishvara

[Lendalas]

On 10/22/2017 at 1:35 AM, Ardhanarishvara said:

 

1. Spore. Does DoT. This damage is negligible and can be ignored in most cases

I'm surprised people still say this. To my knowledge it is literally the highest damage ability in the whole game. As long as there are targets to bounce spores off, they will stack toxic (yes, toxic, not viral) to infinity. 

[(PSN)Radehx]

My main problem with Saryn is that Molt, her only real defensive/cc ability, simply dies waaaaaaay too quickly at higher levels. Most of the time, you won't get more than 1-2 ticks of health back. 

[Andaius]

Everyone seems to be forgetting life strike too keep her HP up with going in melee.  If you want to build around a melee heavy lash focus to spread spores adding in rage, and life strike to your weapon along with Regen molt can keep her standing for a long time.

[Rambit23Z]

Melee Saryn main here. Just dropping by to quickly mention that Toxic Lash and a bit of Power Strength makes every melee weapon block 90% damage which is further reduced by 60% with Steel Fiber on Saryn Prime.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

You're bad and you should be feel bad. I have to wonder if you're trolling people here.

You clearly don't know how to use Saryn since her rework based on your comments. You should go to the wiki, read up on all of her abilities/interactions/limitations and look around online for some builds players use and see what you like.

I completely agree that her Molt (and all similar aggro abilities in the game) needs to scale with content level to be useful, but some of the things you are complaining about are indisputably, factually incorrect which leads to the assumption you are either trolling or still modding her for negative duration to play her like her pre-rework (LOL). 

[Misgenesis]

5 hours ago, Rambit23Z said:

Melee Saryn main here. Just dropping by to quickly mention that Toxic Lash and a bit of Power Strength makes every melee weapon block 90% damage which is further reduced by 60% with Steel Fiber on Saryn Prime.

Which is redundant at sortie levels because it doesnt apply when youre swinging. Its only good for closing the gap safely and getting out of tight situations. Even then most heavy units just eat through it no problem.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Misgenesis

[Rambit23Z]

1 hour ago, Misgenesis said:

Which is redundant at sortie levels because it doesnt apply when youre swinging. Its only good for closing the gap safely and getting out of tight situations. Even then most heavy units just eat through it no problem.

Timing is key, only stay visible to enemies as long as you have to. Mobile melee weapons are ideal. (My personal choice is the Nikana Prime with Blind Justice)

And no, it isn't redundant. If your build is good enough it should only take a second or two to slice down Sortie level bombards. And making use of slam attacks, slams in combos, the short stun on Miasma, the short distraction of molt and (my favourite) the good old fly-kick, those seconds are all you need.

[Rambit23Z]

1 hour ago, Misgenesis said:

Which is redundant at sortie levels because it doesnt apply when youre swinging. Its only good for closing the gap safely and getting out of tight situations. Even then most heavy units just eat through it no problem.

Timing is key, only stay visible to enemies as long as you have to. Mobile melee weapons are ideal. (My personal choice is the Nikana Prime with Blind Justice)

And no, it isn't redundant. If your build is good enough it should only take a second or two to slice down Sortie level bombards. And making use of slam attacks, slams in combos, the short stun on Miasma, the short distraction of molt and (my favourite) the good old fly-kick, those seconds are all you need.

[Ivan_Rid]

18 hours ago, Lendalas said:

I'm surprised people still say this. To my knowledge it is literally the highest damage ability in the whole game. As long as there are targets to bounce spores off, they will stack toxic (yes, toxic, not viral) to infinity. 

It does not work this way, only quarter (modified by power str) of strongest Toxin proc is transfered, and it wont bounce back.

Moreover you need a target that wont just die from initial hit, like Nox, or enemy made invulnerable by fissure.

Also people are already driving me mad by this "corrosive proc per Miasma tick will fix it" assumption - even a dozen corrosive procs still leaves lvl100 Bombard with about 85% damage reduction, yet theres assumption that 3 procs from Miasma (at base) would somehow fix things.

[Misgenesis]

1 hour ago, Rambit23Z said:

Timing is key, only stay visible to enemies as long as you have to. Mobile melee weapons are ideal. (My personal choice is the Nikana Prime with Blind Justice)

And no, it isn't redundant. If your build is good enough it should only take a second or two to slice down Sortie level bombards. And making use of slam attacks, slams in combos, the short stun on Miasma, the short distraction of molt and (my favourite) the good old fly-kick, those seconds are all you need.

Perfect conditions do not always apply. Hordes of enemies, slams leave you open for attacks, high energy usage when trying to mitigate with molt and miasma.

[Rambit23Z]

12 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

Perfect conditions do not always apply.

That's what Steel Fiber + Vitality is for.

13 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

Hordes of enemies

Saryn's main strength is aoe damage. Hordes are ideal. Single targets are the dangerous ones.

14 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

slams leave you open for attacks

If your weapon is slow.

15 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

high energy usage when trying to mitigate with molt and miasma.

Rage + popping spores with Toxic Lash.

 

 

Listen, I know I won't be able to change your mind. The thing is that melee Saryn isn't a playstyle that anyone can pick up and do well with. Unlike a Radial Disarm Loki or Bladestorm Ash, it takes practice to learn how to best respond to different situations. I've been using this playstyle since her rework and it works just fine in Sorties.

[Hellmaker2004]

19 hours ago, Lendalas said:

I'm surprised people still say this. To my knowledge it is literally the highest damage ability in the whole game. As long as there are targets to bounce spores off, they will stack toxic (yes, toxic, not viral) to infinity. 

Yes when it works then it work really good. But it does not behave like this more often than it does. I have yet to figure out what is the defining factor and the only constant i can say is that i never play as the host, not that i am sure it is a defining factor.

 

More often than not it Spread the spore but forget the toxic, so it pretty much end up dealing minimal damage. Now there are probably a lot more used Saryn Players out there that could say why and how this is the case.

 

8 hours ago, Rambit23Z said:

Melee Saryn main here. Just dropping by to quickly mention that Toxic Lash and a bit of Power Strength makes every melee weapon block 90% damage which is further reduced by 60% with Steel Fiber on Saryn Prime.

On paper yes, but if you are blocking you are not dealing damage further to add insult on injury you can not block while using any other weapon but melee, limiting your choice even more. Now i am not going to say that Saryn needs 90% damage resistance while Toxic Lash is active. She has decent survival even for Sortie if you have a mod or two for survival, but ever since i started playing i have never used Toxic Lash for the Block effect but instead i use it all the time for the Guaranteed Toxic damage and Proc chance.