AFK code defence missions

[calranthe]

I think the AFK code or whatever it is that decides if you are not "helpful" in a mission needs looking at, especially in relation to defence missions, If I play my limbo or Banshee I often miss out on rewards due to the game telling me I was not active or helpful enough...

Really ? 90% of kills over 1500 enemies dead from my frame abilities, yes I do not move about a lot or go and grab loot but I am keeping my entire team alive my frames are tweaked and 4-6 forma builds built for purpose and I get punished because I need to stay put.

I am never afk,  lets take my Banshee prime sound quake, I spend 99% of my time in a defence mission on or near to the objective, I keep my eye on the map, the cycle of enemies, conserving energy as much as possible and dropping energy boosters when I can, thus I hardly have time to pick up a focus and then the game tells me that I did not deserve a reward ?

[Blade_Wolf_16]

8 minutes ago, calranthe said:

I am never afk,  lets take my Banshee prime sound quake, I spend 99% of my time in a defence mission on or near to the objective, I keep my eye on the map, the cycle of enemies, conserving energy as much as possible and dropping energy boosters when I can, thus I hardly have time to pick up a focus and then the game tells me that I did not deserve a reward ?

Sound Quaking, such thrilling gameplay...

 

I admit it may not work as they intended, but it's still not that hard to move a bit sometimes. 

[calranthe]

What one person likes in gameplay another may not but that is not the point here.

I actually enjoy playing banshee prime sound quake build, I  spent time and assets to get banshee prime, creating my build and making sure I have sufficient energy boosts, it may not be ninja skills or speed running, or mot level endurance but I enjoy it and I always run public games (have a good net connection) so many people get to come in and gain affinity or focus, we usually stay till 25-30 and it is enjoyable for me.

I stay on or near the defence objective (after all that is the point of the mission to keep it safe), I take care of most of the enemies and at the same time I have to keep an eye on energy/map/ location of those enemies who are an issue like NoX, if I leave during the few seconds between rounds I either do not have time to energy up or be in the right place.

It should not be too hard to have a code that checks your frame abilities, if I am killing 1500 enemies and turning my abilities off and on dropping energy boosts then that should be enough.

It does not matter whether it is thrilling gameplay it is valid gameplay.

[NekroArts]

1 minute ago, calranthe said:

It should not be too hard to have a code that checks your frame abilities, if I am killing 1500 enemies and turning my abilities off and on dropping energy boosts then that should be enough.

It does not matter whether it is thrilling gameplay it is valid gameplay.

DE doesn't like this kind of gameplay. While the fact that the ability exist contradicts their belief, they like what they created but they don't like it being used to that degree.

[calranthe]

1 minute ago, NekroArts said:

DE doesn't like this kind of gameplay. While the fact that the ability exist contradicts their belief, they like what they created but they don't like it being used to that degree.

I have not seen an official word on this please point me towards any post by a DE employee that has voiced this.

[BansheePrime]

God forbid you press the w key once in your entire mission. Keyboard might burst into flames.

Edited October 2, 2017 by maj.death

[SurrealEdge]

9 minutes ago, calranthe said:

I have not seen an official word on this please point me towards any post by a DE employee that has voiced this.

It was an update from over two years ago.

Quote

Changes:

 

• Holiday decorations, presents and the festive enemy antlers have been removed.
• Updated outdated information in the Training section of the Codex.
• Added Archwing tag to Centaur’s weapon description.
• Increased the delay between Infested Crawler’s vocal groans.
• Many Dojo trophies have received PBR upgrades!
• Warframes will now have temporary immunity while loading into a mission in progress, to prevent spawning into a mission half-dead due to enemy attacks.
• Toned down bloom on Mutalist Incursion badge.

• Players will now be disqualified from end-of-mission rewards if they've been dead or AFK for over a minute.  This will not affect players that are waiting at extraction.  This timer only matters relative to when the mission is completed. It isn't a 'catch all' net for 100% of the mission.

Bolded the part about the AFK timer.

Edited October 2, 2017 by SurrealEdge

[-Temp0-]

22 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

I admit it may not work as they intended, but it's still not that hard to move a bit sometimes. 

Depends. I missed one of the wave's reward one time playing... Ivara on defense. 

Cause our Nekros kept insisting on using shiled of shadows which brough back nullifiers and it was almost pointless to shooting all that bubble mess. And apparently one minute of 'not doing anything' is enough to rob you of your reward. Simply genius.

 

[calranthe]

Just now, maj.death said:

God forbid you press the w key once in your entire mission. Keyboard might burst into flames... not like you really use it...

I do move around that does not help, once again just because you do not like this kind of gameplay does not mean it is not valid and should not be penalized especially when I am keeping my team alive.

(yeah not like I really use it... 14 different loadouts, 1600+ hours in game, I play many different frames/builds, I have been here for 4+ and founder, I was here the day survival was implimented, I was playing on the original star map before we even got a ship, but none of that game play should make this point invalid).

Many frames can be used in a stationary gameplay, from Frost to Ember, it is personal choice and until a DE representative tells me this gameplay is invalid then I should not loose out on relics and rewards in defense missions.

[calranthe]

10 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said:

It was an update from over two years ago.

Bolded the part about the AFK timer.

I was not AFK for any amount of time, I do not go afk, While using soundquake I am turning my view around all the time so I can see what is being killed, where the issues may be (enemies taking 0 damage or low number damages) I can tell by doing that when to turn off soundquake and not waste energy.

Let me explain that a little more, I know how much is my standard damage, I know certain enemies resist it, so by seeing the damage numbers pop up through the walls and areas I can judge when to turn off sound quake and how close to end of wave we are.

I move myself between rounds to different positions around the defensive objective so I can best keep an eye on where players are and how it is going.

Additional point, I would say 90% of the waves last less than 1 minute and I never let my energy run out so something else is goes on to tell me I do not qualify for a reward because my quake build would run me dry if I ran it for a minute at a time on every wave.

Edited October 2, 2017 by calranthe

[SurrealEdge]

9 minutes ago, calranthe said:

I was not AFK for any amount of time, I do not go afk, While using soundquake I am turning my view around all the time so I can see what is being killed, where the issues may be (enemies taking 0 damage or low number damages) I can tell by doing that when to turn off soundquake and not waste energy.

I move myself between rounds to different positions around the defensive objective so I can best keep an eye on where players are and how it is going.

Doesn't matter, it effects everyone. It was originally put in to discourage stationary gameplay, such as Mesa staying in one spot and using Peacemaker to clear the area for the entire mission. It's still there now.

Unless you make a really good argument over why it should be removed or make some proposed changes to the system, I don't see DE changing it. When Greedy Pull did more than pull only for Mag and through walls, players abused the accessibility of it, which ultimately lead to this along with Banshee's Soundquake for exploitable and AFK farming tactics.

I get it that for situations where sitting inside a zone of protection doesn't warrant much movement, but in the case of Limbo, you can direct where Cataclysm hits. In the case of Banshee, why should the player reap the rewards for effectively zoning the entire area? It's only a problem if you choose not to move at all within that timeframe. Otherwise, would moving a few steps really hurt? In Banshee's case, stopping Soundquake saves energy in between waves. You can move during that.

Edited October 2, 2017 by SurrealEdge

[KIREEK]

I also use soundquake in interceptions mostly, never had the issue you described, i assume you have issues because you just stay still using that ability for way to long, like over 2 minutes, that might be the reason.

Break the ability and go grab loot, that should solve the problem.

[Volkeris]

Git gud.

[calranthe]

1 minute ago, SurrealEdge said:

Doesn't matter, it effects everyone. It was originally put in to discourage stationary gameplay, such as Mesa staying in one spot and using Peacemaker to clear the area for the entire mission. It's still there now.

Unless you make a really good argument over why it should be removed or make some proposed changes to the system, I don't see DE changing it. When Greedy Pull did more than pull only for Mag and through walls, players abused the accessibility of it, which ultimately lead to this along with Banshee's Soundquake for exploitable and AFK farming tactics.

I get it that for situations where sitting inside a zone of protection doesn't warrant much movement, but in the case of Limbo, you can direct where Cataclysm hits. In the case of Banshee, why should the player reap the rewards for effectively zoning the entire area?

Because it is valid gameplay, I had to get Banshee to a certain level, had to rise in a certain syndicate to get the augment cards, I forgo moving around and blowing things up or burning them to a crisp to provide a valid defensive tactic to help my team or anyone who joins, do you not think that I want to be out there in Ivara, Excalibur, Nidus, or many of the other frames I love, I was one of the earliest players when defence missions first came in to sit there with frost keeping the objective safe while everyone else got to run around like crazy people shooting things, when endurance runs were the only way to get certain things.

So yes I should not be penalized for a tactic DE helped create providing a service to other players and keeping them alive.

[SurrealEdge]

1 minute ago, calranthe said:

So yes I should not be penalized for a tactic DE helped create providing a service to other players and keeping them alive.

But the caveat to that, is that it is counterintuitive to what DE has added. I get that a couple of frames are stationary for their ability, such as increasing energy drain the longer the ability lasts, that's meant to tell you to stop and conserve it.

You've been given an arsenal to play around with, and all you do is sit in one spot all day. If that's what you prefer, more power to you, but moving around every minute or so won't kill you.

[calranthe]

1 minute ago, SurrealEdge said:

But the caveat to that, is that it is counterintuitive to what DE has added. I get that a couple of frames are stationary for their ability, such as increasing energy drain the longer the ability lasts, that's meant to tell you to stop and conserve it.

You've been given an arsenal to play around with, and all you do is sit in one spot all day. If that's what you prefer, more power to you, but moving around every minute or so won't kill you.

This is what you are not getting I am moving around, I have tested it, even walking around the defense objective between waves has no affect or for example my wife has a cataclysm/stasis build and many times if she just uses those abilities (which once again are valid gameplay and kill a lot of enemies) she gets no reward.

I think the code has other parts to it, just moving is not enough, if I pick up a piece of loot that seems to satisfy it, trouble is with sound quake or a limbo/stasis build enemies can be 40-50m away from where you are protecting.

[NekroArts]

46 minutes ago, calranthe said:

I have not seen an official word on this please point me towards any post by a DE employee that has voiced this.

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-73-overview

Scroll down to "Dracoville".

[VoxGray]

@calranthe It tests the distance you've moved from a specific point over time. Run to the edge of the map between waves, and your problem will be solved.

Also, your repeated whining in this thread isn't going to change how anyone perceives your "issue." Your loss of loot hinges entirely on your choice not to move beyond arm's length of a defense pod. It doesn't matter how long you've been around, or how much "work" you put in to get your build the way it is (which presumably just involved a whole lot of Soundquaking Draco), what matters is that you make the choice not to use this simple solution and then expect others to sympathize with you.

Also, regardless of whether Soundquaking a map is "valid" gameplay, it lacks involvement. That's the biggest issue you're going to run into here. Any build that can eliminate player involvement to as much a degree as SQ Banshee is going to create a lot of friction in the community of a game that's as action-intensive as Warframe. It's why Ember and Ash get as much hate as they do, too.

[TheLexiConArtist]

3 hours ago, calranthe said:

I have not seen an official word on this please point me towards any post by a DE employee that has voiced this.

Blind Mirage used to shut down entire maps with arguably 'more' interaction (actual interaction, not this airy 'looking around and seeing when I should toggle' anecdote). Rightfully, it was fixed by giving Prism line of sight, because the AFK detection wasn't sufficient to prevent the 'tactic'.

Consider that your official word that sitting in place and consistently, and in effect passively halting and/or killing everything on the map is not supported.

 

Why Resonant Quake was introduced since then is a mystery I still pressure the developers to answer for in every applicable devstream thread. It's not valid gameplay. It's degenerate, and in fact removes the gameplay not just of yourself, but for the three other people in the squad as well.

Spending a bit more energy for the goal than Blind Mirage did is not a sufficient excuse.

[Shockwave-]

On 10/2/2017 at 3:34 PM, calranthe said:

I think the AFK code or whatever it is that decides if you are not "helpful" in a mission needs looking at, especially in relation to defence missions, If I play my limbo or Banshee I often miss out on rewards due to the game telling me I was not active or helpful enough...

Really ? 90% of kills over 1500 enemies dead from my frame abilities, yes I do not move about a lot or go and grab loot but I am keeping my entire team alive my frames are tweaked and 4-6 forma builds built for purpose and I get punished because I need to stay put.

I am never afk,  lets take my Banshee prime sound quake, I spend 99% of my time in a defence mission on or near to the objective, I keep my eye on the map, the cycle of enemies, conserving energy as much as possible and dropping energy boosters when I can, thus I hardly have time to pick up a focus and then the game tells me that I did not deserve a reward ?

You quake is NOT active for 5 straight waves, just make sure to move around a bit before going back into quake and you are fine.

[(PSN)Nomido_PAL]

On 10/3/2017 at 10:56 PM, Shockwave- said:

You quake is NOT active for 5 straight waves, just make sure to move around a bit before going back into quake and you are fine.

I ran into the same problem but all that is needed is to stop with the quake when the red marker pops up for one of the last few enemys right before the rewards are handed out. Thats when i start to collect loot thats all over the map and beginning to jump all over the map resets the afk timer. Everbody can test it with energy siphon. The moment the afk mechanic starts is when you stop getting energy from your aura. The area from where you have to move is around 10~20 meters or so after you moved that far the afk mechanic says you are no longer afk.

Though what i read here in the thread... it will likely never happen that DE changes the way their afk mechanic works for Banshee so the OP gets what he wants.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

On 10/2/2017 at 3:48 PM, NekroArts said:

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-73-overview

Scroll down to "Dracoville".

Quote

Dracoville

● XP farms are great for levelling up without really playing the game. This stagnant style of play is something we want to eliminate, but we also want to address the reasons behind why Draco has become such an important part of getting new equipment.

● We’re looking at revamping the relationship between weapons and player experience, where future changes can mean that a new gun or sword will immediately be levelled up to match your Mastery Rank. As a result, some of that painful early-level gameplay will be eliminated and nodes can become places of interest instead of grinding zones.

They only implemented the first part. The second part got a half-@$$ed attempt that never actually addressed the reason we run Akkad/Hydron/Bere, that reason being the need to add 2-3 forma to a weapon to make it good, and the fact that we still have to rank it from 0 to 30 every time we forma it. While having minimum mod capacity scale to MR helps once you have put the last forma in it, it doesn't help at all in shortening the time between the previous 2 forma.

If they want to fix this, they need to do what they actually talked about, which is shortening the time between forma applications, as well as giving us something else worth doing. As it stands right now, after you have maxed Cetus/Quill standing and built everything you want, there is nothing rewarding left except sorties, which are once a day. You want us to run something other than an Affinity/Focus grind? Then reduce the amount of affinity and focus we need, and make other missions worth doing.

I am not about to go run some random 30-40 Capture mission just for 5k credits and a random mod I have already had hundreds of copies of. I am going to go run Hydron for 20-30 waves 4-5 times, so that I can max out my focus cap for the day. I am going to go run Akkad twice for 20 waves each, so that my newest weapon can become sortie viable.

This is a perfect example of unwanted behavior caused by reward systems. DE needs to look more closely at the kind of playstyle they are incentivizing.

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by -AoN-CanoLathra-

[NekroArts]

59 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Snip

Are you aware that that link was there to provide proof of:

 

On 10/2/2017 at 2:59 PM, NekroArts said:

DE doesn't like this kind of gameplay. While the fact that the ability exist contradicts their belief, they like what they created but they don't like it being used to that degree.

On 10/2/2017 at 3:02 PM, calranthe said:

I have not seen an official word on this please point me towards any post by a DE employee that has voiced this.

 

[AnonymousUserTheOnly]

DE is not being nice to the resonating quake banshees by having this afk system say "you stood still for X seconds, therefore you are afk and don't get a reward" even if you are casting something that requires you to stand still while casting.  if they wanted resonating quake to be in, they needed to re-design the detector to be detecting afk as stading still for X seconds AND not using any abilities.  forgive my rant, but i was just cheated out of a wave 5 hydron reward because i was the quake banshee that stood on top of the objective dropping pads and using the 4th ability without moving off for anything.  DE, FIX THIS.  IT IS CLEARLY VERY BROKEN IF SOMEONE CAN DEAL MOST OF THE DAMAGE AND NOT GET A REWARD BECAUSE OF BEING "AFK"!

 

and yes, i wasn't quaking 5 waves straight.  since DE says "no energy can be regenerated while using sound quake, but can be given by pickups" there is no way to maintain the quake for that long. i quaked, stopped at the end of each wave to drop a plate, and then started again when the next wave started.  being punished for dealing damage without moving?  not cool, DE.  not cool at all.

Edited November 11, 2017 by AnonymousUserTheOnly

[Volkeris]

27 minutes ago, AnonymousUserTheOnly said:

DE is not being nice to the resonating quake banshees by having this afk system say "you stood still for X seconds, therefore you are afk and don't get a reward" even if you are casting something that requires you to stand still while casting.  if they wanted resonating quake to be in, they needed to re-design the detector to be detecting afk as stading still for X seconds AND not using any abilities.  forgive my rant, but i was just cheated out of a wave 5 hydron reward because i was the quake banshee that stood on top of the objective dropping pads and using the 4th ability without moving off for anything.  DE, FIX THIS.  IT IS CLEARLY VERY BROKEN IF SOMEONE CAN DEAL MOST OF THE DAMAGE AND NOT GET A REWARD BECAUSE OF BEING "AFK"!

 

and yes, i wasn't quaking 5 waves straight.  since DE says "no energy can be regenerated while using sound quake, but can be given by pickups" there is no way to maintain the quake for that long. i quaked, stopped at the end of each wave to drop a plate, and then started again when the next wave started.  being punished for dealing damage without moving?  not cool, DE.  not cool at all.

And how should they know you weren't using a macro while you were AFK?